The Cardinal in the Computer System

[Brianish]

Seems to me it's not getting a huge amount of coverage because not much has developed. There was an FBI investigation going. There still is. Sports reporters are probably not especially eager to directly involve themselves until it's concluded. Until then, we've mostly just got opinion pieces, and a lot of those have already been written. 

 

[yecul]

This is a major issue. It's such a major issue that the only reason I'm paying attention to it is to espouse how it's unfair for the Patriots. Why aren't more people paying attention to this very important issue?? It's important. And an issue. 
 
Go Pats!

 

[DavidTai]

The biggest reason there isn't as much furor is that there isn't a bunch of anonymous leaks with questionable "facts" spurring on rampant speculations.

 

[dcmissle]

Oh, for fuck's sake ... take the Patriots butt-hurt melodrama elsewhere, kids

It is not as if we have a dearth of threads dedicated to the art form. It does get tiresome.

Being a diehard fan of a team that has gotten hosed and is the object of jealousy fueled rage, I find it hard to understand why people want that visited on others. The antidote to injustice and venom is not more injustice and venom.

Or may this be a Red Sox thing in Pats' uniforms?

 

[singaporesoxfan]

Seems to me it's not getting a huge amount of coverage because not much has developed. There was an FBI investigation going. There still is. Sports reporters are probably not especially eager to directly involve themselves until it's concluded. Until then, we've mostly just got opinion pieces, and a lot of those have already been written. 

 
Speaking of reporters, how impressive is it that Michael Schmidt of the NY Times broke this story and the FIFA story, and he's not even currently in the Sports section (he's their Washington correspondent)?

 

[E5 Yaz]

ESPN legal analyst Roger Cossack thinks that the Cardinals' information hacking of the Astros was not a one-time thing: "I think this was a plan and I think when this comes out you’re going to find out that this was done not just once, but several times. I think you are going to find out it was done over a period of time. This is very serious." (via Mike & Mike)

 
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=13105233

 

[Van Everyman]

Roger Cossack is a dipshit who repeatedly soiled himself during the Clinton impeachment and Bush v. Gore.

 

[DJnVa]

Grantland and Charles Pierce with a piece: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/st-louis-cardinals-hacking-houston-astros-pierce/

 

[dcmissle]

"The NewEngland Patriots will have to share space in the Righteous Indignation pillory for a while."

Hilarious, and subtle. We OWN that fucking pillory: everybody else is just passing through. As Bob Kraft has noted vis a vis players -- there are owners, and then there are renters.

 

[soxfan121]

"The NewEngland Patriots will have to share space in the Righteous Indignation pillory for a while."

Hilarious, and subtle. We OWN that fucking pillory: everybody else is just passing through. As Bob Kraft has noted vis a vis players -- there are owners, and then there are renters.

 
Well, until several Cardinals employees report to Federal Prison. I hear the key is to kick someone's ass on opening day.
 
The reason this proceeding isn't like previous scandals is that FBI is involved and they don't give a crap about leaking information to make this an on-going soap opera. The Cardinals and Rob Manfred are on the same side here; the material damage to the business of baseball is possibly immense. The FBI, if they have enough evidence to go to court, will end up exposing so much about "The Cardinal Way" that this will be a thing for years to come. 

 

[dcmissle]

It all depends how far up the chain of command this goes. It's all bad, but degrees of bad matter.

If these guys were freelancing, the Cards will be penalized because they ultimately are responsible for their guys. But If they weren't, then the polarity of the baseball world shifts.

I find it difficult to believe that the GM or his assistant signed off on this. For if they did, it's a career death penalty for them.

 

[Leather]

I can't move posts, but maybe a "sports scandal coverage in the media" thread in the media subforum is a better place for the cross-sport comparisons.

 

[soxhop411]

“@EvanDrellich: The Cardinals accessed private Astros info even earlier than previously known, in 2012, the Chronicle has learned. http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2015/06/18/cardinals-chairman-blames-alleged-hacking-of-astros-on-roguish-behavior/

 

[Ed Hillel]

“@EvanDrellich: The Cardinals accessed private Astros info even earlier than previously known, in 2012, the Chronicle has learned. http://t.co/3re8Tusb57”

Link's dead.

 

[soxhop411]

Link's dead.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2015/06/18/cardinals-chairman-blames-alleged-hacking-of-astros-on-roguish-behavior/

DENVER — Thursday’s tacit admission by the Cardinals owner that someone in his organization was involved in hacking the Astros was only an early step in bringing to light a saga that is expected to prove more shocking once the FBI has completed its investigation and all the details are released.

The Chronicle on Thursday learned that the Cardinals had unauthorized access to Astros information as early as 2012, a year earlier than was previously known. Cards owner Bill DeWitt Jr., meanwhile, for the first time acknowledged that his organization had played a role in accessing proprietary information belonging to the Astros, blaming “roguish behavior.”

 

[derekson]

It all depends how far up the chain of command this goes. It's all bad, but degrees of bad matter.

If these guys were freelancing, the Cards will be penalized because they ultimately are responsible for their guys. But If they weren't, then the polarity of the baseball world shifts.

I find it difficult to believe that the GM or his assistant signed off on this. For if they did, it's a career death penalty for them.

 
I'm no lawyer, but my understanding is that even if the superiors of the perpetrators didn't order it, they're in trouble if they were aware of it and didn't report it. Corporate espionage and hacking are both serious, serious business and the laws for both are pretty broadly defined.

 

[soxfan121]

Further, I have a really hard time thinking that whoever stole the Astros info shared none of it - in a meeting, in conversation - even if "how he knew it" wasn't brought up to mozeliak.

The idea the cardinals employee(s) only stole it to leak it to deadspin or make fun of Luhnow is naive, IMO. They used the stolen info wittingly or unwittingly when discussing players or draft picks at the highest levels of the organization and "profited" from it.

 

[dcmissle]

They could haven shared stolen stuff in a way to disguise its illicit origin. To look like the smartest kid in the class. SoSH membership would follow as the cherry on the sundae

 

[soxfan121]

They could haven shared stolen stuff in a way to disguise its illicit origin. To look like the smartest kid in the class. SoSH membership would follow as the cherry on the sundae

So it would be ok if the cardinals profited from the info one or more of their employees obtained illegally? Just as long as those employees never told anyone it was stolen?

 

[dcmissle]

So it would be ok if the cardinals profited from the info one or more of their employees obtained illegally? Just as long as those employees never told anyone it was stolen?

Of course not.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Even with a list of passwords, it would seem the Cardinals people still had to work out where (as in IP addresses and gateways) the Astros log-on servers where located and navigate through them. Or has MLB and its designated vendor set up a common gateway/infrastructure for all teams, and each club logs in to its own subsection for its private data?

 

[Jnai]

Even with a list of passwords, it would seem the Cardinals people still had to work out where (as in IP addresses and gateways) the Astros log-on servers where located and navigate through them. Or has MLB and its designated vendor set up a common gateway/infrastructure for all teams, and each club logs in to its own subsection for its private data?

 
No. It would all have been custom housed & built.
 
There is no such sport-wide solution / strategy for data.

 

[glennhoffmania]

Drellich's post also addressed the possibility of the Astros filing a civil suit against the Cardinals. They could, but it would be a challenge of MLB's rules that prohibit one franchise from suing another. More likely, the Astros would defer to MLB commissioner Rob Manfred. He could hand out punishments along these lines:
 
The commissioner's power to punish ranges from issuing a reprimand; barring a club from major league meetings; suspending or removing any team owner, officer or employee; levying a fine that can't exceed $2,000,000 in the case of a club, and no more than $500,000 in the case of an owner, officer or employee. The commissioner too can take away the benefit of any or all major league rules — which include, notably, the Rule 4 and 5 drafts. The Rule 4 draft is better known as the amateur draft. The rules too allow for other unspecified, punishments as the commissioner sees fit.
 

 
Link

 

[singaporesoxfan]

Since the Astros' system was called Ground Control in keeping with the space theme, I wonder what the Cardinals' version was called. Hawkeye? Bird Brains?

 

[PBDWake]

I believe they said it was called Redbird

 

[Jnai]

I have a friend who has a long list of all the names. I think the Brewers is "the Keg" or something like that.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Even with a list of passwords, it would seem the Cardinals people still had to work out where (as in IP addresses and gateways) the Astros log-on servers where located and navigate through them. Or has MLB and its designated vendor set up a common gateway/infrastructure for all teams, and each club logs in to its own subsection for its private data?

 
That's about the most simple thing to do. For example:
 
vpn.cardinals.com
vpn.redsox.com
 
No "hacking" involved. If you're looking for a company's VPN, VPN.domain.com is usually where you start. If it's not that, then you can find it in a few minutes most likely.
 
Once you're in a lot of the time there's a quick links page with the good stuff. It's probably the easiest way to hack a company. 1) Find Portal 2) Send employees an email saying "Please login to our new VPN before you go home today" with fake page. Someone will fall for it.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

So is anything going to come of this?

 

[Corsi]

The St. Louis Cardinals have terminated the services of their scouting director, Chris Correa, after an “imposed leave of absence,” a lawyer for Cardinals executives said Thursday.
 
James G. Martin, lawyer for chairman Bill DeWitt Jr. and general manager John Mozeliak, declined to comment on the reasons for his separation or any details of an investigation into the hacking of a Houston Astros database.
 
Martin said that the Cardinals were continuing to investigate. He declined to comment when asked whether any employee has admitted hacking the Astros, citing an ongoing governmental investigation. 
 
Correa declined to comment.
 
Correa's lawyers could not be immediately reached for comment.
 
Correa has admitted hacking into a Houston Astros database but said it was only to verify that the Astros had stolen proprietary data, according to a source with knowledge of the investigation.
 
Correa did not leak any Astros data, and is not responsible for additional hacks that the FBI has alleged occurred or leaking any data, said the source.
 

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinals-fire-scouting-director/article_b529088f-70c3-51c5-bab2-106afa1d2a12.html

 

[Thelobsterroll]

If Correa knows anything it would seem to be in his best interest to name names since he is possibly looking at jail time.

On another note how big of a loss is this for the Cards

 

[soxhop411]

IM SURE… only the scouting director knew about this and not anyone higher up… No sir… He was a lone wolf….

 

[soxfan121]

This is the most egregious example of cheating in sporting history. The guy in charge of the Cardinals scouting system stole information from a competitor and shared it with his boss and underlings.

Everyone short of Dewitt (and maybe even him) should do jail time and never be allowed into an MLB venue. Mozeliak is responsible for his staff and Correa is absolutely positively reporting mozeliak and anyone claiming otherwise is full of shit.

 

[Rough Carrigan]

What a Cardinals excuse by Correa.  I was only stealing to make sure that other people weren't stealing first. 

 

[Average Reds]

I think the most interesting part of yesterday's news was this nugget:
 

 
"Correa did not leak any Astros data, and is not responsible for additional hacks that the FBI has alleged occurred or leaking any data, said the source."

 
The firing of Correa looks like the tip of the iceberg to me.  So unless these reports are inaccurate, I expect this to get a lot worse for the Cardinals in coming days.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

So... can the Red Sox hire him to replace Baird?

 

[jimbobim]

The Cardinals are likely deathly afraid of having  Mozeliak impacted. This is some damning description about how close the Scouting director and he were. 
 
Luhnow hired Correa in 2009. With degrees in cognitive science and psychology, Correa was working on his doctorate at Michigan when lured here. He played a pivotal role in the organization’s development of psychological analysis of potential draftees. Correa took ownership. He attended scout school and frequently could be found during home games sitting beside Mozeliak right-hand man Mike Jorgensen in the scout seats. Part of the game’s new, more academic wave, Correa never claimed to be the smartest guy in the room, though he may have been. A Cardinals employee called his style “inclusive.” His goal was to learn by listening. By all accounts, he succeeded.
 
The Cardinals database continues to evolve. Though Luhnow laid its groundwork, Mozeliak often described Redbird Dog as a team effort.
It’s hardly a reach to believe Correa, heavily invested in the club’s proprietary effort, was tempted to see if his work was being duplicated in Houston.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/joe-strauss/article_b4dd308d-583e-57e3-a6a2-a73aa8f677be.html
It’s also hardly a reach to think the FBI unimpressed by one club snooping around another’s database for medical evaluations.
 
The Cardinals’ were stunned to learn of the FBI investigation shortly after spring training opened in February. They were blindsided by a June 16 New York Times report detailing the probe. DeWitt told employees two weeks ago the organization’s reputation had been “tainted” by the database breach. The same day he promised action during a series of press conferences at Busch.
DeWitt also hoped the matter was confined to low-level employees.
 
Technically, Correa remained a relative minnow — manager of baseball development — when the cyber-grab occurred. The job entailed organizing the Cardinals analytics department, which reported to assistant general manager Michael Girsch. Mozeliak promoted Correa to director of scouting last December after Dan Kantrovitz left for the Oakland A’s.

 

[Rovin Romine]

I think the most interesting part of yesterday's news was this nugget:
 
 
The firing of Correa looks like the tip of the iceberg to me.  So unless these reports are inaccurate, I expect this to get a lot worse for the Cardinals in coming days.

 
The analogy is finding that, after a successful bank robbery, Correa was found to be on the scene with a gun and a "this is a bank robbery" note in his pocket.  Sure, maybe he didn't rob the bank.  Or help others to.  Maybe.   

 

[dcmissle]

According to WaPost, Justice is recommending criminal charges against at least one (unnamed) team employee. If filed and a conviction follows, 20 years in prison could follow. It is unlikely that any of these people would serve a stretch that lengthy, but any prison time focuses the mind.

I suspect that we will be to the bottom of this. It should be noted that the vast majority of federal prosecutors are professional and ethical, and that while they would be quite interested in information implicating higher ups, they want that information only if it is true.

But the conspiracy allegations and charges of cover up -- at this early stage, and with no factual support -- will be voluminous, I am sure.

 

[soxhop411]

Sam Walker ‏@SamWalkers 3m3 minutes ago
BREAKING: Former Cardinals scouting director Chris Correa scheduled to plead guilty in Astros hacking case. http://www.wsj.com/

Wonder how long his jail sentence will be

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Better link: http://www.wsj.com/articles/ex-cardinals-scouting-director-to-plead-guilty-to-hacking-houston-astros-1452271222

 

[Brand Name]

Ground Control to Major Tom!

 

[jimbobim]

Certainly seems like the info accessed was far more serious than originally reported and will force Manfred to do something....

Correa took advantage of the fact that Victim A had used a password for his Astros email that was similar to the one he had used for the Cardinals, the documents claim.

On March 24, 2013, Correa harvested or viewed an Excel file of every player eligible for the draft from the Ground Control database, as well as Astro scouts' evaluations and proposed bonus to be offered to them. He also got other draft information, including high-level trade discussions, notes and evaluations of Cardinals' prospects, charging documents say.

One June 8, he again accessed Ground Control, looking only at undrafted players and three players the Cardinals had drafted the day before.

On July 31, Correa looked at the Astros' notes on trade dicussions with other teams via Victim A's Ground Control account.

After the Astros implemented new security procedures, prompted by a Houston Chronicle story about Ground Control, they emailed a new URL for the Ground Control website and a new default password.

Correa grabbed that information and used it to access Victim B's Ground Control account, viewing 118 pages of “confidential” information including a ranking of players the Astros wanted, information on trade discussions, evaluations of players at various levels, including international players to whom the Astros were mulling offers, the charging documents say.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/report-former-cards-scouting-director-to-plead-guilty-in-hacking/article_a207ac33-a84d-5176-beb1-4f72308a8095.html#.VpAUWbzvPA4.twitter

Wendy Thurm ‏@hangingsliders 43s43 seconds ago
So Chris Correa suspected Astros of having proprietary Cards info, hacked Astros system, found Cards info there. Then stole Astros info. Wow

 

[soxhop411]

“@Lahlahlindsey: Feds claim after the Astros did a system-wide reset of Ground Control passwords, Correa hacked into Luhnow’s EMAIL.”

 

[nvalvo]

So... does the League sanction the Cardinals?

 

[soxhop411]

@jimbobim

Here is the full court document.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2680399-ChrisCorreaIndictment.html

 

[Rovin Romine]

So... does the League sanction the Cardinals?

Unless there's a credible "rogue employee" defense, I don't see why they wouldn't sanction the Cardinals.

 

[jimbobim]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mlb-must-hammer-st--louis-beyond-its-checkbook-for-hacking-astros-005253782.html

How familiar......

What speaks to any organization – what especially speaks to one like the Cardinals that have built their team through savvy drafting – is the prospect of losing picks. It's a penalty with legitimate teeth and unquestionable consequences. Take away picks. Take away draft-pool dollars. Take away international-bonus money. Hit them on the field as a consequence for their duplicity off it.

Around the game, as the Schadenfreude reverberates, rivals temper their excitement. They fear the influence of Cardinals owner Bill DeWitt Jr., among the game's most powerful men, will buy St. Louis lenience. This is no time for commissioner Rob Manfred to play favorites, not with the awful message it would send.

 

[kazuneko]

So as far as I can tell there is only one major news site that doesn't at least have a link to this story (Correa pleading guilty) on their main page: espn.com.
While it seems Yahoo Sports is the only site making it one of their lead stories, every other site I've checked (CNN sports, Fox Sports, SI.com, Sportingnews.com etc) there is at the very least a link to the story on their MLB News page.
I guess these type of cheating scandals just aren't something ESPN deems worthy of a lot of coverage...

 

[Punchado]

How is this not the most massive story in all of sports? One of baseballs top franchises, one who has dominated it's division for years is caught breaking into another teams computer systems and stealing their most valuable information about drafts and signings? Is it because he didn't actually put on dark clothes and break into their offices to steal files out of a cabinet that people aren't getting the severity of this? This is the biggest cheating scandal in sports that I can recall. Steroids is one thing but if you want to talk about interigry of the game you can't let the cards off lightly here. I would say the same thing if it was the Red Sox. This is really, really bad.

 

[RedOctober3829]

We're talking federal crimes here. Not PSI of a football or the wrong place to film signals. I can't believe that ESPN and other media outlets aren't all over this story. Another team hacks into another team's computer system and nary a mention on the website's front page or it's MLB-specific page????