The Forward Lines

RIFan · Jul 8, 2015

I don't see the logic in moving Marchand off of Bergeron's wing. They have proven chemistry.
I would go with;
Marchand-Bergy-Connolly
Belesky-Krejci-Hayes
Loui-Spooner-Pastrnak
Kelly-Kemppainen-Talbot

1st line adds a possible sniper to a solid duo. 2nd line will put a ton of physical pressure on opponents. 3rd line uses Loui to add some defensive presence to the young guns. Putting Pastrnak here allows him to expand on the chemistry he showed with Spooner and allow him to develop his 2 way game without the pressure of facing top lines. I'm penciling JK in the 4th line, but they could easily slot Kelly or Talbot in the middle and use Rinaldo, Ferlin or Griffith on the wing.

Edit: need to get Beleskey's name right.

Dummy Hoy · Jul 8, 2015

I'm not sure how all these pieces fit together, but I would bet my car that Bergy and Marchand skate together. I think Connolly benefits from Krejci's passing, and I think Spooner and Paster get another shot. Clode likes to start with compatible pairs and fill in from there.

LogansDad · Jul 8, 2015

I think RIFan is spot on, but I have to be totally honest: I would LOVE to see Pasta and Connolly swapped in those lines. I really think a line of Marchand - Bergy - Pasta would be so damn good, even if it lowers Bergeron's +/- a little due to playing with Pasta.

Reardon's Beard · Jul 9, 2015

veritas said:
I think you're both right and that's what Caude *will* do, putting Spooner-Pasta on the 3rd line. I just think Pasta is too good for that and needs to play with Bergeron or Krejci. I thought about Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak, but that leaves all the lines too unbalanced.

I agree the kid needs to play with Bergeron or Krejci. My guess it comes down to which of Connolly or Hayes shine with the other, with Haynes probably ending up on the third line - which is shaping up to be a pretty decent.

TheRealness · Jul 9, 2015

I would like to see them generate some of the mojo they had with Spooner and Pastrnak this year. I'd like to see them go with:

Eriksson-Krejci-Connolly
Marchand-Bergeron-Hayes
Beleskey-Spooner-Pastrnak
Talbot-Kelly-Shithead

Beleskey can serve in the Lucic role on that line from last year, and both Spooner and Pastrnak would benefit from Beleskey's physicality and experience. I would like to see them give Eriksson top line minutes with Krejci, and feel Connolly as a trigger man works well with that line. Hayes physicality should help the Bergeron line, and hopefully contribute to the possession oriented style they play with. I think as far as pairs, I'd like to see Claude stick wit Bergeron/Marchand, Spooner/Pastrnak, and Krejci/Eriksson and then rotate the others through as needed. I feel these lines are more balance and more oriented to each pairs specific skill set.

Granite Sox · Jul 9, 2015

RIFan said:
Marchand-Bergy-Connolly
Beleski-Krejci-Hayes
Loui-Spooner-Pastrnak
Kelly-Kemppainen-Talbot

Having both Beleskey and Hayes on L2 coming off (potentially) one-hit wonder offensive years shouldn't happen, imo. Too few goals on that line. Need to apply the 25-30% first-season-as-a-Bruin JOD (Julien Offensive Downgrade) for those two.

I'd flip Hayes and Loui in this proposed set-up. Krejci and Eriksson make for a glacially slow pair, but puck possession would be good and they'd be a decent two-way veteran duo.

Clode might have a heart attack with a Hayes-Spooner-Pasta L3, but assuming Hayes in particular can be defensively responsible that could be a very dynamic line. Plus Kelly could slide in as L3 C late in games as RIFan suggests. This youthful line may bolster Sweeney's "No More Retreat" desire.

Merlot is all kinds of 'meh', but I'm in the Anyone But Rinaldo camp.

cshea · Jul 9, 2015

I think it is somewhat interesting (at least to me, maybe not everyone else) that they've gone back to a symmetrical look in the top 9. The 4th line is all lefties, but the top 9 is, assuming Loui goes back to LW. I'm not sure how much of an affect it'll have, but I've felt at times the past few years that guys playing their off wings have gotten handcuffed trying to jam in loose pucks around the net. Or they've had difficulties on 2-on-1's because the puck carrier is on the off wing and it's a tougher pass across.

RIFan · Jul 9, 2015

Dick Pole Upside said:
Having both Beleskey and Hayes on L2 coming off (potentially) one-hit wonder offensive years shouldn't happen, imo. Too few goals on that line. Need to apply the 25-30% first-season-as-a-Bruin JOD (Julien Offensive Downgrade) for those two.

I'd flip Hayes and Loui in this proposed set-up. Krejci and Eriksson make for a glacially slow pair, but puck possession would be good and they'd be a decent two-way veteran duo.

Clode might have a heart attack with a Hayes-Spooner-Pasta L3, but assuming Hayes in particular can be defensively responsible that could be a very dynamic line. Plus Kelly could slide in as L3 C late in games as RIFan suggests. This youthful line may bolster Sweeney's "No More Retreat" desire.

Merlot is all kinds of 'meh', but I'm in the Anyone But Rinaldo camp.

We know Loui can play his off side, but it doesn't look like Hayes has any experience playing on his offside, which is what you are proposing.

Eddie Jurak · Jul 9, 2015

cshea said:
I think it is somewhat interesting (at least to me, maybe not everyone else) that they've gone back to a symmetrical look in the top 9. The 4th line is all lefties, but the top 9 is, assuming Loui goes back to LW. I'm not sure how much of an affect it'll have, but I've felt at times the past few years that guys playing their off wings have gotten handcuffed trying to jam in loose pucks around the net. Or they've had difficulties on 2-on-1's because the puck carrier is on the off wing and it's a tougher pass across.

I generally think too much is made of whether guys play their on or off wing. There are advantages and disadvantages to each wing. On a 2-on-1, it may be easier to make/receive a pass on the forehand on the "on wing", but a player on his "off wing" may have better shooting angles and can "open up" for a one timer.

Historically, guys have generally played their on "on wing" in the North American game, while European players are actually more likely to play their off wing. Just different ways in which the game is taught. It is probably mostly about a player's comfort level - a North American wing is likely to have mostly played his on wing, while a European wing would probably have a lot more time on the off wing. As a veteran who has mostly played RW, I'm a bit concerned about how well Loui would adapt to playing the other side. On the other hand, Pastrnak didn't seem to have any trouble shifting over to his on wing last year.

Mike Knuble looked like a journeyman player, but he blossomed after shifting over to his off wing (LW). Though that could have been a coincidence - as a LW he got to play on a first line with Thornton & Murray. He did sustain his success after leaving Boston, though.

Zososoxfan · Jul 9, 2015

I'd like to see what Krejci can do with a legitimately talented winger in Pasta, but that will require some more size. I don't think there's a chance that Bergy-Marchand get split up.

Belesky-Krejci-Pasta
Marchand-Bergy-Connolly
Loui-Spooner-Hayes
Kelly-Not Rinaldo-Not Rinaldo

Eddie Jurak · Jul 9, 2015

Zososoxfan said:
I'd like to see what Krejci can do with a legitimately talented winger in Pasta, but that will require some more size. I don't think there's a chance that Bergy-Marchand get split up.

Belesky-Krejci-Pasta
Marchand-Bergy-Connolly
Loui-Spooner-Hayes
Kelly-Not Rinaldo-Not Rinaldo

I think I'd try to stick with Spooner/Pastrnak, probably with Loui. Connolly I view as potentially the best goal scorer, so I would put him with Krejci. That leaves Hayes on line 2 with Bergy and Marchand.

McDrew · Jul 9, 2015

I want them to explore the following:

Hayes-Krecji-Pastrnak: Big guy for front-of net, Distributor, shooter

Marchand-Bergeron-Belesky: Marchand and Bergeron will command attention, giving Belesky more room to do what he does.

Eriksson-Spooner-Connolly The rest of the top 9

Not Rinaldo-Not Rinaldo-Not Rinaldo (none of these people are Zac Rinaldo)

Why my ideas are crap:
Hayes on the first line? Seriously? Yep. He's the banger in the group of forwards, and I think his size(biggest of all forwards) will be used to A) protect Pastrnak(smallest of all forwards) and B) stand in front of the goalie and make his life hell.

Belesky NOT on the 1st line? I think his goal scoring ability pairs better with M/B. IN the 15 minutes of goals I saw on youtube, Beleskey seems to do well in situations where he's the lone guy on the weak side of an overloaded offense. He seems to be able to pick apart single defenders or a goalie well. I think Marchand and Bergeon can command a lot of attention, leaving him more open.

Rag Tag 3rd line: Yeah, they're who were left that weren't fodder/Chris Kelly/300 pounds of shit in a 170 pound body.

FL4WL3SS · Jul 9, 2015

Eriksson on the 3rd line is silly. The guy is almost as good as Bergy defensively (for a winger at least) and would be wasted against lesser talent. He needs to either be paired with Bergeron or Krejci.

I'm not sold with keeping Marchand with Bergeron, I'd explore playing him with Spooner to give his line some experience or putting Eriksson with Bergeron and Marchand with Krejci.

The offense was terrible last season, I'm open to all options.

pappymojo · Jul 9, 2015

Eriksson - Krejci - Connolly
Marchand - Bergeron - Pasta
Belesky - Spooner - Hayes
Kelly - Not Rinaldo - Not Rinaldo

McDrew · Jul 9, 2015

TheRealness said:
Beleskey-Spooner-Pastrnak
Talbot-Kelly-Shithead

Beleskey can serve in the Lucic role on that line from last year, and both Spooner and Pastrnak would benefit from Beleskey's physicality and experience.

Beleskey is 6'0", 204lb. Lucic is 6'4, 225lb. That's kind of a big dropoff. Spooner is 5'11", 181lb, and Pastrnak is 6', 167lb. That's a really small line.
Hayes is our guy that is huge and can serve the lucic role. 6'6"/221.

cshea · Jul 9, 2015

Beleskey plays closer to a north-south bang bodies around power forward game than Hayes does. Hayes is huge but doesn't have much ntimidation, nor does he have much of a mean streak (career high is 20 PIM's in 72 games). I said it in another thread, but Hayes is like Wheeler. Huge, but he doesn't really use his size to knock guys around. He's good at using it to protect the puck and work the cycle along the boards.

kenneycb · Jul 9, 2015

Yeah he was basically the same at BC and even then it took him about 2.5 years to figure out he wasn't a pure finesse guy. A large frame but not exactly a banger and plays smaller than his size, at least in the traditional sense of how guys his size are viewed.

Eddie Jurak · Jul 9, 2015

Sounds like potentially a fit with Bergeron.

TFP · Jul 9, 2015

The good thing is, they have a ton of flexibility this year. I think Claude will be well served to mix his lines up a lot and get everyone comfortable with each other. While the stability in the past was good, with this mix of skills I think it's worth having everyone able to play with each other.

That said, I'd start with:

Eriksson - Krejci - Connolly
Marchand - Bergeron - Hayes
Beleskey - Spooner - Pastrnak
Talbot - Kelly - Not Rinaldo

McDrew · Jul 9, 2015

cshea said:
Beleskey plays closer to a north-south bang bodies around power forward game than Hayes does. Hayes is huge but doesn't have much ntimidation, nor does he have much of a mean streak (career high is 20 PIM's in 72 games). I said it in another thread, but Hayes is like Wheeler. Huge, but he doesn't really use his size to knock guys around. He's good at using it to protect the puck and work the cycle along the boards.

I spent 15 minutes looking solely at clips of goal scoring, and not the other 90% of their games. I'll totally admit I got the wrong impression after watching some more video this afternoon.

With that information, I'd go
Beleskey-Krecji-Pastrnak
Marchand-Bergeron-Hayes
Eriksson-Spooner-Connoly
Talbot-Kelly-AHL

Eddie Jurak · Jul 9, 2015

The Four Peters said:
The good thing is, they have a ton of flexibility this year. I think Claude will be well served to mix his lines up a lot and get everyone comfortable with each other. While the stability in the past was good, with this mix of skills I think it's worth having everyone able to play with each other.

That said, I'd start with:

Eriksson - Krejci - Connolly
Marchand - Bergeron - Hayes
Beleskey - Spooner - Pastrnak
Talbot - Kelly - Not Rinaldo

That would work.

I'll put in a plug for Brian Ferlin in the "Not Rinaldo" role.

TSC · Jul 9, 2015

What strikes me in looking at the projected lineups is just how young this group of forwards is.

Outside of Kelly and Talbot - I don't think there's anyone else in their 30's, right?

Eddie Jurak · Jul 9, 2015

TheShynessClinic said:
What strikes me in looking at the projected lineups is just how young this group of forwards is.

Outside of Kelly and Talbot - I don't think there's anyone else in their 30's, right?

Bergeron.

timlinin8th · Jul 9, 2015

pappymojo said:
Eriksson - Krejci - Connolly
Marchand - Bergeron - Pasta
Beleskey - Spooner - Hayes
Kelly - Not Rinaldo - Not Rinaldo

This is the one I'd go with, though for labeling purposes I'd call the Bergy line "line 1". Give Krejci a little less minutes what with him still coming back from a season where he was pretty beat up. Also can flip Erikkson and Marchand if you're so inclined.

Reasons: like I said I'd give the Bergeron line the most even strength minutes just to minimize Krejci a little bit.

I could make an argument either way for keeping Marchand with Bergeron due to their familiarity, or put Erikkson on Bergy's line to help mask some of Pasta's defensive deficiencies and it puts two excellent possession guys with a scorer (I also think Marchand playing with a distributor like Krejci could really allow him to be a menace on the ice with Connolly on the other wing)

I think there is something to breaking up Pasta and Spooner. There were times last season when they got hemmed in their own zone and it was pretty ugly.

Line three youre putting the two new guys together at the start of the season, lets them develop their own chemistry along with Spooner. Also if they were potentially "career year" guys let them start the season in a spot without crazy expectations.

No fucking Rinaldo cuz no fucking Rinaldo

Eddie Jurak · Jul 9, 2015

timlinin8th said:
I think there is something to breaking up Pasta and Spooner. There were times last season when they got hemmed in their own zone and it was pretty ugly.

Julien tried that down the stretch and it didn't work. With lines centered by Krejci and Bergeron, he ought to be able to protect them from the worst matchups. For all their getting hemmed in their own zone, they were still a net positive - unlike the team as a whole.

TFP · Jul 9, 2015

TheShynessClinic said:
What strikes me in looking at the projected lineups is just how young this group of forwards is.

Outside of Kelly and Talbot - I don't think there's anyone else in their 30's, right?

Eddie Jurak said:
Bergeron.

Loui and Bergeron are both turning 30. Next year though, they'll be the only 2 forwards in their 30's, which is impressive.

timlinin8th · Jul 9, 2015

Eddie Jurak said:
Julien tried that down the stretch and it didn't work. With lines centered by Krejci and Bergeron, he ought to be able to protect them from the worst matchups. For all their getting hemmed in their own zone, they were still a net positive - unlike the team as a whole.

While true, I also think that trying to move the kids on-the-fly was probably destined to fail no matter what. Starting a new season with these guys having practiced may develop a different result.

It also is because Spooner is your third line C and I'd like to give Pasta a chance to crack a higher line. He just has more offensive upside than Hayes does. IMO Connolly and Pasta are the top two RW and should be played on those lines.

Maybe I'm selling Hayes short? Like I said it probably puts Hayes in a spot where he can at least get adapted to the system without being expected to produce like a 1st liner.

jk333 · Jul 9, 2015

timlinin8th said:
While true, I also think that trying to move the kids on-the-fly was probably destined to fail no matter what. Starting a new season with these guys having practiced may develop a different result.

It also is because Spooner is your third line C and I'd like to give Pasta a chance to crack a higher line. He just has more offensive upside than Hayes does. IMO Connolly and Pasta are the top two RW and should be played on those lines.

Maybe I'm selling Hayes short? Like I said it probably puts Hayes in a spot where he can at least get adapted to the system without being expected to produce like a 1st liner.

what do you expect out of Krejci vs Spooner, offensively?

Spooner produced close to 0.8 ppg at the end of last season. He's not the two way player Krejci is but they both generate offense and keeping Pasta off against other top scoring lines, Spooner is a good fit on a line for Pasta.

The B’s Knees · Jul 10, 2015

The Four Peters said:
Loui and Bergeron are both turning 30. Next year though, they'll be the only 2 forwards in their 30's, which is impressive.

And Krejci will turn 30 around the time we're getting ready for round 2 of the playoffs

Reardon's Beard · Jul 10, 2015

I watched a lot of Hayes video last night as I had some downtime and didn't know him as well as others.

He definitely hangs around front, put the puck in kind of player. I think the combination of Beleskey and Hayes gives Krejci the tools he thrives with in that Lucic/Horton model; the skills just breakdown in the guys differently and not as neatly.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the initial, balanced lines shake out like this:

Beleskey - Krejci - Hayes
Marchand - Bergeron - Connolly
Loui - Spooner - Pasta
Talbot - Kelly - Rotational Forward

But who knows. How they gel in the preseason will say a lot, that's for sure.

BigMike · Jul 10, 2015

Reardons Beard said:
I watched a lot of Hayes video last night as I had some downtime and didn't know him as well as others.

He definitely hangs around front, put the puck in kind of player. I think the combination of Beleskey and Hayes gives Krejci the tools he thrives with in that Lucic/Horton model; the skills just breakdown in the guys differently and not as neatly.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the initial, balanced lines shake out like this:

Beleskey - Krejci - Hayes
Marchand - Bergeron - Connolly
Loui - Spooner - Pasta
Talbot - Kelly - Rotational Forward

But who knows. How they gel in the preseason will say a lot, that's for sure.

Well if nothing else that "first" line might have Krejci willing to waive his no movement clause by midseason.

McDrew · Jul 10, 2015

The Four Peters said:
Loui and Bergeron are both turning 30. Next year though, they'll be the only 2 forwards in their 30's, which is impressive.

In a Week(Loui) and 2 weeks(Bergeron)

timlinin8th · Jul 10, 2015

jk333 said:
what do you expect out of Krejci vs Spooner, offensively?

Spooner produced close to 0.8 ppg at the end of last season. He's not the two way player Krejci is but they both generate offense and keeping Pasta off against other top scoring lines, Spooner is a good fit on a line for Pasta.

As I said in my first post, its not really the offense that would have me make that change. Its that I would want Pasta with a better two way player (which is also why I paired Pasta with Bergeron and not Krejci) and I would prefer to see a young healthy player with Pasta's offensive upside get more minutes than a third line guy will get.

Its not like pairing Spooner with Beleskey and Hayes is handing him a giant pile of suck either, it just adds a little more balance throughout the lines.

Eddie Jurak · Jul 10, 2015

timlinin8th said:
As I said in my first post, its not really the offense that would have me make that change. Its that I would want Pasta with a better two way player (which is also why I paired Pasta with Bergeron and not Krejci) and I would prefer to see a young healthy player with Pasta's offensive upside get more minutes than a third line guy will get.

Its not like pairing Spooner with Beleskey and Hayes is handing him a giant pile of suck either, it just adds a little more balance throughout the lines.

Inlike other Bruin forwards, though, Spooner and Pastrnak make plays with speed and creativity. Krejci is a gifted playmaker but one who slows the game down. Bergeron and Marchand have speed but neither is a traditional playmaker. I just wonder if Spooner and Pastrnak complement each other in ways that other players wouldn't.

RIFan · Jul 10, 2015

Eddie Jurak said:
Inlike other Bruin forwards, though, Spooner and Pastrnak make plays with speed and creativity. Krejci is a gifted playmaker but one who slows the game down. Bergeron and Marchand have speed but neither is a traditional playmaker. I just wonder if Spooner and Pastrnak complement each other in ways that other players wouldn't.

That's my position as well. I'm also not concerned with the Pastrnak getting "3rd line minutes". They roll their lines consistently enough that 5 on 5 ice time doesn't figure to be that different if they balance the lines. He'll end up with more ice time than a league average 3rd line forward because he'll figure to be on one of the PP units.

I think we all need to remember he just turned 19 6 weeks ago. There is little to lose by letting him continue to develop on the 3rd line even if he plays 15-17 minutes instead of the 19-20 the top 6 may get. He's certainly shown he has high end talent, but it seems that his current game is probably getting overrated by some. He's far from a finished product and I think it's reasonable that he's probably going to have some rough stretches as he acclimates to 82 games at the NHL level.

Reardon's Beard · Jul 10, 2015

RIFan said:
That's my position as well. I'm also not concerned with the Pastrnak getting "3rd line minutes". They roll their lines consistently enough that 5 on 5 ice time doesn't figure to be that different if they balance the lines. He'll end up with more ice time than a league average 3rd line forward because he'll figure to be on one of the PP units.

I think we all need to remember he just turned 19 6 weeks ago. There is little to lose by letting him continue to develop on the 3rd line even if he plays 15-17 minutes instead of the 19-20 the top 6 may get. He's certainly shown he has high end talent, but it seems that his current game is probably getting overrated by some. He's far from a finished product and I think it's reasonable that he's probably going to have some rough stretches as he acclimates to 82 games at the NHL level.

Yeah, this is where I'm at. I think they start him on the third and as the season progresses maybe he moves up - or if he and Spooner really get it going then you're all set. I have no doubt he can be the #1 RW on this team right now, but I'm less certain he'll be deployed that way anytime before Christmas except in PP minutes. Preseason will tell us more.

timlinin8th · Jul 10, 2015

I can also agree with that line of thinking that you guys are on, with regard to his age. and that Spooner might just have a speed dynamic that accentuates Pasta's game the others do not. Just felt revisiting attempting to separate Pasta and Spooner before the season starts and seeing if something clicks might be beneficial in the long run.

Realistically, the team is probably play any of the top three RWs interchangeably in preseason practices and see what chemistry exists and make the determination there,

The Forward Lines

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