The future at 3rd
- Thread starter MakMan44
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I can't for a minute fathom how the Padres could do this. Their highest contract on their roster right now is 6 million per. So they are going to triple the highest contract they've given for a non-power hitter in Petco. Not happening.
Losing Sandoval to the Giants is one thing. Losing him to the Padres won't happen. I've had the feeling since the summer that the Red Sox would not allow themselves to be beat for Sandoval and I'm sticking to that.
Losing Sandoval to the Giants is one thing. Losing him to the Padres won't happen. I've had the feeling since the summer that the Red Sox would not allow themselves to be beat for Sandoval and I'm sticking to that.
This is a bit of a canard though; there are plenty of contenders with payrolls of less than $145 million, which would be what the Sox would have left under the luxury tax even if they flushed $45 million down the toilet.maufman said:
It's possible they could allocate their entire annual revenue sharing amount to Pablo, but does anyone think that would be a wise move for those funds?mloyko54 said:
At what point do the Sox open another front on the 3b hunt? An invitation to sup with Hanley? Surely, Headley wouldn't mind if we played some semi-public footsy with him while he engaged the Yanks. Maybe a leak about the Sox being intrigued with a return of Jed Lowrie, or more far out, engaging with Theo about a Betts plus for Bryant deal.
I guess you would have to weigh the benefit that might have in mildly tempering Sandoval's demands and expediting the process vs. the risk that it pisses him off enough that he moves on to other options.
It all appears very delicate now with the paying field cleared for Panda and none of the other 3B seeming to be the topic of much discussion at all.
I guess you would have to weigh the benefit that might have in mildly tempering Sandoval's demands and expediting the process vs. the risk that it pisses him off enough that he moves on to other options.
It all appears very delicate now with the paying field cleared for Panda and none of the other 3B seeming to be the topic of much discussion at all.
Teams like the Padres have to start somewhere. One of their goals is presumably to start looking like a legitimate competitor for talent, which tends to impress other available guys. And those guys won't be held back by what the number crunchers say about his projected WAR in the out years of his deal. Maybe they see Sandoval as a guy players like and respect above and beyond his offensive contribution (which is solid if not spectacular).67WasBest said:
I'm not saying it's the best use of their money or even that this is what they think. I'm only suggesting a possible logic.
That sort of "threaten to walk away" move works if you're the clear top bidder. If you have three or more teams in the same ballpark re their bids, it's a terrible idea to be the asshole who tells him to hurry up and decide.KillerBs said:
Well that is the risk -- but if you tell Sandoval you still really want him, make sure you come back around to us before your done, we got some more room here, just need to explore all options, etc etc doesn't it make sense for Sandoval to do just that and keep the Sox in the bidding?
How are you calculating this bolded part?chrisfont9 said:
The Yankees' have a few commitments that don't look appealing, as do the Phillies and Rangers.
Reds didn't make the playoffs
I agree with this. They won't attract big names unless they appear to be moving in the right direction. They won 77 games last year with 3 of their every day players cracking 1 WAR. Their first base platoon was Tommy Medica and Yonder Alonso. Cameron Maybin can't stay healthy or effective. Rymer Liriano should help in LF and Austin Hedges could be up at some point, but they need offense now to complement them.chrisfont9 said:
If they have big improvements at 2 positions and one or two of those guys improve, it isn't a terrible team.
Really? I don't think it means anything either way. Just seeing what the Giants are willing to do and if it's close to what other teams are informally discussing.Harry Hooper said:
As for the discussion of what an offer actually is, I think we should restrict it to a formal, written offer (or at least a formal offer with paperwork immediately forthcoming). Discussions aren't offers.
Sure, there is logic there. It feels like grandstanding for the fans to me however..chrisfont9 said:
I provided a link. Here it is again:benhogan said:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/teams-future-salary-obligations.html
My mistake about the Reds, they made the playoffs the two previous years. So the point applies to all of the top four teams, not five.
Edit: The Yankees' situation isn't quite as terrible long term as you might think. Jeter comes off now, A-Rod in 2017. Only Tanaka, Ellsbury, Gardiner and McCann extend past 2017. Most teams would be dragged down by that, but not them. See: http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/new-york-yankees/
Agreed, but they sort of need to do that too, don't they?67WasBest said:
edit: I'm in Seattle so I can tell you that the Cano signing had that effect. They added 300k fans this year, not sure how many cable subscriptions. Obviously that's attributable to the performance as well. Anyway, you gotta get momentum somewhere.
If the Red Sox lost out on Sandoval I have a feeling they will scoop up another one very quickly after Sandoval signs. I'd imagine they've laid the groundwork with the plan B's at 3B so they can focus on pitching, OF trade market leading up to winter meetings. I compare it to the Amendola - Welker signing. Welker signs in Denver. Within hours after Amendola is locked up. Won't be that quick, but have to think they'd move swiftly.
Only Headley fits that description from the FA class. Hanley goes against everything Cherington focuses on as value. I don't see that ever being possible. [But hey, who knows.]mloyko54 said:
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale
The Chicago #WhiteSox just signed 1B Adam LaRoche to a 2 year, $25 million contract.
LH Bat off the market
The Chicago #WhiteSox just signed 1B Adam LaRoche to a 2 year, $25 million contract.
LH Bat off the market
MakMan44 said:
With Cecchini as a near-ready option in AAA, we could have the necessary insurance to cope with his injuries. And he could be an amazing DH candidate a few years down the road.
I'm skeptical of Cafardo and other than the offer numbers there is a lot of speculation in there. I think the Red Sox end up offering a vesting 6th year when it's all said and done.
Who's to say they haven't had multiple fronts open all along? Headley, whose return to NY has been understood to be a virtual certainty, hasn't yet signed, and that may well be because BOS and others are in talks with him. Likewise Hanley. Sandoval's visit to Boston got a lot of press, which in turn led people to assume he's the front office's first choice; that may or may not be true. Both in the media and on this site people sometimes like to jump to conclusions or offer up gut instincts as expertise. It seems likely that Yawkey Way is playing several hands at once, as we know any good front office typically does. Speaking of which, I've always wished somebody would do a book that reported from the inside on one team's offseason in the way that Michael Lewis covered Oakland's 2002 draft in MONEYBALL. I'd love to know what Ben et al. are doing right now--not only because I'm impatient to know who'll be on the Red Sox in 2015, but also because I'm insanely curious about all of the possibilities they're contemplating.
Hasn't it?? Between the Cafardo vs Ian Browne offer vs no offer, and the Schulman vs O'Donnell Giants are out on panda, there have been more conflicting reports than I can remember in any other FA in a while. At least as far as the Sox go.MakMan44 said:
The only thing we know is that Nick Cafardo has now called Michael Sandoval a liar.MakMan44 said:
LeoCarrillo said:
Or that the Sox made an offer between the time there was no offer and 9:30.
5/95 seems steep to me for a player I would describe as "pretty good" but every FA signing seems like an overpay. I'll take it.
Per Mario Pepin Sandoval's representatives are looking for a 6 year deal with an option for a 7th..
Seems to me like whoever offers him that 6th year whether option or otherwise will get him.
Seems to me like whoever offers him that 6th year whether option or otherwise will get him.
Assuming the leak came from Sandoval's side, he's trying to elicit a 6-year deal at lower AAV, right?
I can't see why the Red Sox would reveal their offer (nor would I expect the info to be known widely enough within the organization to leak without authorization), and I don't think Sandoval's team would leak it if they didn't think it was in the ballpark.
I can't see why the Red Sox would reveal their offer (nor would I expect the info to be known widely enough within the organization to leak without authorization), and I don't think Sandoval's team would leak it if they didn't think it was in the ballpark.
maufman said:
There is no way the Red Sox would reveal the offer. My guess is Cafardo's info is coming from a third party. These negotiation have been very hush hush since Tuesday even if/when an offer was submitted was tough to nail down. It just tells me how seriously they are working on this and how they don't want anything out there.
Take this for what it's worth, but this is from a friend who would know better than reporters: "The agent is trying desperately to get a sixth year or 100 mil is what I'm hearing."
It's also possible that the Sox haven't made an official offer in that they haven't drawn up a contract that locks in the years and dollars so much as they've laid out the framework for a contract they would be willing to offer and are waiting for Sandoval's camp to either agree in principle or reject that framework. That can be an offer from one perspective, but not be one from another.
6/104 with vesting for 7 based on GP in years 5 and 6. Start with a premise of $6.5M per WAR, a very conservative increase of $250 K per year. An average of $7.125/fWAR, he needs to post 15fWAR over 6 years to break even. That's 2.5 per year.
Gordon Edes @GordonEdes
Number reported by @nickcafardo for Sandoval certainly sounds plausible, but my sources are crickets at the moment
Number reported by @nickcafardo for Sandoval certainly sounds plausible, but my sources are crickets at the moment
Sandoval had a "$100 Million Contract" message prominent on his goal board. I wonder if he will be OK with rounding?Hee Sox Choi said:
Edited for clarity
Is this just simply different interpretations by these sources of what an "offer" is? The Sox could have verbally offered the 5yrs/$95m but didn't want to put a formal offer on the table until Pablo spoke with San Fran and San Diego. I'm failing to find any reason why a team or an agent would lie and leak that there is/isn't an offer from the Sox.
Edit: Basically what Snodgrass said, must've skipped over that post the first read through.
Edit: Basically what Snodgrass said, must've skipped over that post the first read through.
@nickcafardo: Boston in lead for Pablo Sandoval last night. Let's see if SD or SF have put on a late rush.
https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/536142938422906881
https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/536142938422906881
link to tweet
https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/536142938422906881
https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/536142938422906881
link to tweet
TOleary25 said:
I think this is at the heart of it.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/85787-the-future-at-3rd/page-21#entry5744273
67WasBest said:
At that point, if 5 mil is holding up the process, it would be worth adding a year and 5 mil, reduce the average value and give Sandoval what he always dreamed.
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