The Game Ball Thread: Wk. 10 vs Browns

Bongorific

Thinks he’s clever
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
7,366
Balboa Towers
The “convert Harry to TE” talk is silly. No one ever does that. Besides, the Pats put a lot of emphasis on their WR blocking.

What would be more interesting if Harry were to start catching a few balls if they start leaving him open while trying to bottle up Bourne, Meyers and the other guys.
The Cardinals did it with Ricky Seals-Jones. Not that that’s an admirable comp. But he’s shown flashes in some games and is about the same size as Harry.
 

Bowhemian

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2015
3,973
Bow, NH
I love how much the team legit enjoyed Meyers‘ first TD. People who I don’t think were in the play ran down to the end zone to join the party. That‘s a good sign.
There were defensive players in the end zone as well. It was a large crowd, and it was awesome to see. I was legit worried that they were going to pick up a penalty.
 

Bleedred

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 21, 2001
8,609
Boston, MA
Game balls to the entire team. Loved loved loved Stevenson's performance, MAC again was impressive and both lines had outstanding days.

Question: How much of the credit/blame for the defense should got to S. Belichick, versus, Mayo and B. Belichick. Isn't it some proportional combination among the 3?
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
22,549
The “convert Harry to TE” talk is silly. No one ever does that. Besides, the Pats put a lot of emphasis on their WR blocking.
In the mid 70s, when the Jets were terrible, they moved a very fast Richard Caster from WR to TE and he made the Pro Bowl. At the time, it was made to sound unprecedented. When Caster moved on, they moved Jerome Barkum the same way and he stayed at TE during their brief period of non-suck.
 

Zincman

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
302
New London
Game balls to the entire team. Loved loved loved Stevenson's performance, MAC again was impressive and both lines had outstanding days.

Question: How much of the credit/blame for the defense should got to S. Belichick, versus, Mayo and B. Belichick. Isn't it some proportional combination among the 3?
Of course it it is. But Steve bore the brunt of the outlandish criticism from this board. You'll have to look long and hard to find similar criticisms of Mayo and even BB. I'm just imploring the board to be a bit more fair.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
30,147
306, row 14
The Patriots had 3 touchdown drives of 90+ yards yesterday (99, 92, 95). I'd imagine that's a pretty rare feat, though I could be talking out of my ass here. Anyone know when the last time they/anyone did that in a game?
 

Ferm Sheller

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2007
13,736
The Patriots had 3 touchdown drives of 90+ yards yesterday (99, 92, 95). I'd imagine that's a pretty rare feat, though I could be talking out of my ass here. Anyone know when the last time they/anyone did that in a game?
The graphic on CBS said it was the first time in the BB era, so if the Pats have done it, it occurred prior to 2000.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
21,542
A Scud Away from Hell
Game balls to the entire team. Loved loved loved Stevenson's performance, MAC again was impressive and both lines had outstanding days.

Question: How much of the credit/blame for the defense should got to S. Belichick, versus, Mayo and B. Belichick. Isn't it some proportional combination among the 3?
Heard on a Patriots podcast that BB has taken a much bigger role on the defensive side for the last few weeks. Unsurprisingly, that was around the time this winning streak started.
 

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
39,507
Hartford, CT
Heard on a Patriots podcast that BB has taken a much bigger role on the defensive side for the last few weeks. Unsurprisingly, that was around the time this winning streak started.
Is this Bedard? I heard that take from him a few times over the past few weeks, and I think he is basing that off questionable anecdotal evidence, ie, sideline behavior that Bedard noticed. He might be right, but I wasn’t exactly bowled over by that evidence.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
32,934
AZ
In the little things department, Mac was way more attuned to the play clock and getting out of the huddle fast. Everything was so much more calm at the line. They had plenty of time and he wasn't running around like a chicken with his head cut off as the clock ran down getting everyone to their spot. When he wanted to audible he had plenty of time. On a few occasions when there were little scrums after the play he was great about getting everyone off the pile and into the huddle. This had been an issue for a while causing a few issues. It felt like a priority this week and it seemed to make a big difference.

For the Xs and Os guys, what does it mean that McD was completely in love the with delayed hand off this week? Even when it didn't work the first few times they stuck with it and it eventually paid big dividends.

From the perspective of someone that doesn't really know Xs and Os it seems like it would never be good. It seems like it would give the defense a chance to get into the back field and blow up plays. But it was clearly working more often than not yesterday.
 

Over Guapo Grande

panty merchant
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2005
2,763
Worcester
For the Xs and Os guys, what does it mean that McD was completely in love the with delayed hand off this week? Even when it didn't work the first few times they stuck with it and it eventually paid big dividends.

From the perspective of someone that doesn't really know Xs and Os it seems like it would never be good. It seems like it would give the defense a chance to get into the back field and blow up plays. But it was clearly working more often than not yesterday.
I am not an X/O person by any means - but my understanding is that it allows the pash rushers (Clowney/Garrett) to get upfield, allowing you to run behind them.
 

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
39,507
Hartford, CT
In the little things department, Mac was way more attuned to the play clock and getting out of the huddle fast. Everything was so much more calm at the line. They had plenty of time and he wasn't running around like a chicken with his head cut off as the clock ran down getting everyone to their spot. When he wanted to audible he had plenty of time. On a few occasions when there were little scrums after the play he was great about getting everyone off the pile and into the huddle. This had been an issue for a while causing a few issues. It felt like a priority this week and it seemed to make a big difference.

For the Xs and Os guys, what does it mean that McD was completely in love the with delayed hand off this week? Even when it didn't work the first few times they stuck with it and it eventually paid big dividends.

From the perspective of someone that doesn't really know Xs and Os it seems like it would never be good. It seems like it would give the defense a chance to get into the back field and blow up plays. But it was clearly working more often than not yesterday.
Delayed handoffs can exploit LBs who freeze/step back to defend the pass and/or overly aggressive DL or blitzers from the second level. If, for example, the ends rush too far upfield because they read pass initially, then the delayed handoff can open gaps. Like any somewhat slow developing play, it is susceptible to negative yardage/stuffed runs, but it can also spring some runs because it can catch front seven players out of position and/or let blockers get to the second level (LB and DB) more easily before the runner hits it.

For some context, Emmitt Smith and the Cowboys ran a delay play called the ‘lead draw’ to death in the 90s to great effect.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
32,934
AZ
I am not an X/O person by any means - but my understanding is that it allows the pash rushers (Clowney/Garrett) to get upfield, allowing you to run behind them.
That seems to make sense. I think it's really hard to really see how stuff like that is working or isn't working when you watch on television. They say that the NFL is the perfect tv sport but I actually find that when I go to a game you really get a sense how distorted the game is on tv. You have zero sense of the width of the field. Players who are 10 feet apart look right next to each other.

Delayed handoffs can exploit LBs who freeze/step back to defend the pass and/or overly aggressive DL or blitzers from the second level. If, for example, the ends rush too far upfield because they read pass initially, then the delayed handoff can open gaps. Like any somewhat slow developing play, it is susceptible to negative yardage/stuffed runs, but it can also spring some runs because it can catch front seven players out of position and/or let blockers get to the second level (LB and DB) more easily before the runner hits it.

For some context, Emmitt Smith and the Cowboys ran a delay play called the ‘lead draw’ to death in the 90s to great effect.
Interesting -- they must have thought they had the line to make it work and maybe the addition back of Brown helped. Three weeks ago I would have said anything that gives the other side's line a chance to surge would be a real problem for us.
 

speedracer

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
2,863
I am not an X/O person by any means - but my understanding is that it allows the pash rushers (Clowney/Garrett) to get upfield, allowing you to run behind them.
I might be off here, but I seem to remember that the Pats used to torment players like Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis of the 2000s Colts with draw plays all the time and I feel like it wasn’t such a staple anymore the last few years (perhaps because of the increased use of empty formations, perhaps because defenses adjusted, I dunno).
 

Over Guapo Grande

panty merchant
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2005
2,763
Worcester
If you look at what NE had a lot of success with yesterday, it goes back to using CLE's aggressiveness on the DLine against them </Holiday Inn Express>

Draws/delayed handoffs, screens, end-arounds... all designed to punish over-aggressive or over-pursuing D's

What I found really interesting is that against CAR, they faked the jet sweep and ran it up the middle with great success on numerous occasions. So, add me onto the "kudos to Josh" crowd.
 

bakahump

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 8, 2001
6,938
Maine
Josh was great yesterday and overall a Fine OC. I mean harken back to what the GOAT used to say about him.

Additionally a good % of Macs development and the Development of Multiple Starting QBs (going back to 2004........Brady, Cassell, Hoyer, Brisset, Jimmy G, Mac) should be factored in. Hell he made a shitty Outfielder into a playoff QB :p

I for one can see and would not be disappointed with a BB Tenure....followed by a McD Tenure....followed by a Slater Tenure :) (Or Steve or Jerod etc etc)
 
Apr 24, 2019
921
I’m sorry man but this is just off the mark. It’s embarrassing for us as fans to question him because he questions himself? I think it makes it more fair that we’re questioning calls if he’s also questioning them.
No. That's not what I was saying. I was saying that the level to which, and the frequency with which, some people here question Josh McDaniels's playcalling is extreme and suggest, IMO anyway, a misunderstanding of situational football and the complexity of moving parts that goes into executing plays.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
21,542
A Scud Away from Hell
Is this Bedard? I heard that take from him a few times over the past few weeks, and I think he is basing that off questionable anecdotal evidence, ie, sideline behavior that Bedard noticed. He might be right, but I wasn’t exactly bowled over by that evidence.
Nope. It was Paul Perillo from PFW.
 

RG33

Certain Class of Poster
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2005
5,534
CA
The Patriots had 3 touchdown drives of 90+ yards yesterday (99, 92, 95). I'd imagine that's a pretty rare feat, though I could be talking out of my ass here. Anyone know when the last time they/anyone did that in a game?
I don’t know it it has ever been done before, but I did see that the other guy before Mac who had been here awhile has never done it before.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
29,659
Hingham, MA
The Patriots had 3 touchdown drives of 90+ yards yesterday (99, 92, 95). I'd imagine that's a pretty rare feat, though I could be talking out of my ass here. Anyone know when the last time they/anyone did that in a game?
3 other times this century:

Chargers week 5 2014
Chiefs week 1 2017 (yikes)
Falcons week 4 2016
 

catomatic

thinks gen turgidson is super mean!!!
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
2,666
Park Slope, Brooklyn
DimeSlinger feels like it could stick. . .
Made me think immediately of John D. Rockefeller: “Later in life, Rockefeller started carrying around a bag of dimes with him and handing one, with a great deal of relish, to everyone he met, especially children.”
 

BlackJack

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 11, 2007
2,441
Made me think immediately of John D. Rockefeller: “Later in life, Rockefeller started carrying around a bag of dimes with him and handing one, with a great deal of relish, to everyone he met, especially children.”
NY street food is so weird. At least it wasn’t sauerkraut.
 

BuellMiller

lurker
Mar 25, 2015
369
Made me think immediately of John D. Rockefeller: “Later in life, Rockefeller started carrying around a bag of dimes with him and handing one, with a great deal of relish, to everyone he met, especially children.”
Not sure if these stories melded over time, but that reminds me of a story I learned going to college in Pittsburgh about Andrew Carnegie. A reporter was questioning him about how unfair it was for him to have so much more money than anyone else. Carnegie took out a dime from his pocket and gave it to the him, and said "ok, there's your share" (I guess the equivalent would be if Musk or Bezos gave you a $20 or so today).
But back on topic, given that he wears #10, I think DimeSlinger (or even just Dime) works for Mac.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
46,621
Watch this video with some sideline audio after Jakobi's TD:

 

Over Guapo Grande

panty merchant
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2005
2,763
Worcester
The reaction from the team looked like it was a game winning aTD, not a garbage time score in early November. Loved Hoyer's "we got him one!!!"
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
51,090
I really love this team. It’s fun to root for an underdog that’s also a dynasty. Same with the Sox this year. Being a powerhouse year in and out is great, but beating low expectations feels nice too.
 

ManicCompression

Member
SoSH Member
May 14, 2015
517
I love hearing Kendrick Bourne saying "We're all a piece of the puzzle!" The Patriot culture talk can get super corny, but when you see it manifested by a new free agent and not just in a performative manner like a press conference, it's pretty cool.
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Watching that and the Meyers TD again, so I checked on Hill's status:

Browns' Troy Hill: Released from hospital - CBSSports.com
I have to admit I Zapruder-ed that video clip watching Hill. It really did seem like the most innocuous of tackles, and in the replay view from the end zone, you can see him roll over but it almost looks as much like he was disappointed in himself for allowing yet another TD as any injury. Glad to hear he's OK.