The Game Ball Thread: Wk. 12 vs Titans

8slim

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And they left a pile of points on the field.

Bills are -7 next week. I’ll take the Pats and 7.
Yeah, I was frustrated they didn’t turn a couple of those FGs into TDs, for sure. But given where this team was six weeks ago, I’m still pretty ecstatic that we won comfortably and are sitting at 8-4.
 

johnmd20

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Yeah, I was frustrated they didn’t turn a couple of those FGs into TDs, for sure. But given where this team was six weeks ago, I’m still pretty ecstatic that we won comfortably and are sitting at 8-4.
The Pats were 1-3 and getting smoked by Mills and Houston with their season on the line. It is pretty incredible how they have turned it around from that point.

Even the Dallas loss was really really close.
 

johnmd20

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It wasn't just on Twitter. Read the game thread and you'd have no idea the Pats clobbered the one seed in the AFC. I know it's a game thread but what has happened to SoSH lately? It was a dumpster fire of idiotic takes. Everyone on the Pats sucks, Mike!
A very high degree of negativity has infected this site across almost every forum.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Let’s be fair. Their run d was horrible and it was not because they were letting them run…Titans were getting yards against 8-9 man boxes. This was a game into the fourth quarter thanks to some pretty bad situational football and questionable play calling in the red zone. Henry doesn’t have those two killer fumbles and probably scores late in the fourth. The Titans were heavily outmanned and were done in by their personnel.

Game balls to Bourne, Mills, Folk.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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Let’s be fair. Their run d was horrible and it was not because they were letting them run…Titans were getting yards against 8-9 man boxes. This was a game into the fourth quarter thanks to some pretty bad situational football and questionable play calling in the red zone. Henry doesn’t have those two killer fumbles and probably scores late in the fourth. The Titans were heavily outmanned and were done in by their personnel.

Game balls to Bourne, Mills, Folk.
I was as frustrated as anyone at the runs the schlub running backs were ripping off against the Pats D but I do wonder if the usual Pats’ “take away their one biggest weapon” thing this week was taking away Tannehill’s ability to run and that somehow impacted that aspect of things. I don’t really know why that would result in the Titans’ RBs getting into the second level so readily but ‍♂
 

slamminsammya

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I was as frustrated as anyone at the runs the schlub running backs were ripping off against the Pats D but I do wonder if the usual Pats’ “take away their one biggest weapon” thing this week was taking away Tannehill’s ability to run and that somehow impacted that aspect of things. I don’t really know why that would result in the Titans’ RBs getting into the second level so readily but ‍♂
I think their biggest weapon is and was their running game and that is why they were stacking the box most plays. It didn't seem to do much though.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Love Bourne.

Anybody ever figure out what was up with Barmore? Maybe not feeling great so they tried to conserve his plays?
 
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tims4wins

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Pats have outscored opponents 63-0 in the second half last 4 games. Coaching staff must be doing something right at halftime.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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Anybody ever figure out what was up with Barmore? Maybe not feeling great so they tried to conserve his plays?
He was on the injury report with a foot (I think) this week and he was riding the bike on the sidelines as well so I wonder if he was also dealing with some hamstring/leg tightness as well.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Kendrick Bourne.

I talked about this repeatedly when the Pats went out and got him, and most people either never knew or forgot.

Bourne played 52 games in his collegiate career at Eastern Washington. He was the #2 receiver on that team. The #1 was a guy named Cooper Kupp.

Kupp and Bourne own the FCS record for teammates with 639 receptions and 9,594 yards, even though Bourne only started 32 games (Kupp started all 52 over the same period). Eastern Washington is an offensive powerhouse in the FCS and has been for a long time. Kupp owns every single receiving record for them (and a lot of FCS records). Bourne is #7 in almost every receiving category at EWU, even though he didn't start 20 of 52 games, and played opposite Kupp.

Kendrick Bourne is legit, and will be here for a long, long time.
 

Willie Clay's Big Play

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Great game, a blast to watch.

Pass pro
JC
Judon - he is always a handful and could’ve drawn two holding calls that would have all but killed a drive.

HM: Jeffrey Simmons is something else. I’d ding their run blocking, but he was blowing up almost everything.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Kendrick Bourne.

I talked about this repeatedly when the Pats went out and got him, and most people either never knew or forgot.

Bourne played 52 games in his collegiate career at Eastern Washington. He was the #2 receiver on that team. The #1 was a guy named Cooper Kupp.

Kupp and Bourne own the FCS record for teammates with 639 receptions and 9,594 yards, even though Bourne only started 32 games (Kupp started all 52 over the same period). Eastern Washington is an offensive powerhouse in the FCS and has been for a long time. Kupp owns every single receiving record for them (and a lot of FCS records). Bourne is #7 in almost every receiving category at EWU, even though he didn't start 20 of 52 games, and played opposite Kupp.

Kendrick Bourne is legit, and will be here for a long, long time.
He struggled to catch balls in the preseason and early season. It must have just been adjustment to new team/new system, because he has been improving by the game lately. The plays he made on both TDs were both great.

One the first TD catch, the ball was thrown perfectly, but the coverage was just as good as the throw - the DB had his arm in perfect position to break up the pass. No one would fault any receiver for failing to hang on to that. Bourne reaches away from his body to catch the ball with his hands, which is only a problem because the DB now has his arm between the ball and Bourne's body. Bourne manages to bring ball+DB arm in close enough that he can secure the ball in one hand and let go of the DB'a arm. As he's falling. Incredible. It is one of those replays where every time I watch the close version I think that this time surely the DB will get it out of there.
View: https://twitter.com/PatsNationCP/status/1465022338806681601?s=20

The second TD was incredible simply because most guys who catch that are not going to pull off the balancing act and stay in bounds.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Bourne
Peashooter
Stevenson
Folk

The entire D (because I can't stop naming different players - JCJ, Judon, Mills, Dugger, KVN etc).

The yards on the ground including a breakaway yielded 13 points.

This team is really fun to root for right now. Its been so awesome to be able to experience these runs over the years. I'll give one to BB as well.
 

Eddie Jurak

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On offense, I generally liked the Pats' end of half moves. They were an example of showing some aggressiveness in the play calling that at least I didn't see the previous week. It wasn't a complete success - they made mistakes that held them to 3 points - but they gave themselves a chance to make a few plays and score, and they just didn't execute..

In the 2 minute offense late in the fist half, the team moves from its own 32 to a 3rd and 7 on the TN 26 with 1:07 left and 2 time outs. I actyally think to myself... "maybe this is a good place to run and draw, take time off the clock, call time out, kick the FG, get out of the half up 19-6."

Instead they go for it and Mac throws deep for what should be an easy TD, but isn't because Mac simply misses him. Folk kicks the FG, but TN gets it back with just under a minute left.

On a 3rd and 3, Hilliard breaks a 68 yard TD run aided by some poor defensive play. So instead of 19-6 or 23-6, it is 16-13.

Pats get the ball back with about 30 seconds and 2 time outs. Now I badly want them to try to move the ball and at least get a FG and they do try.

Mac hits a screen to Bolden for a nice gain and Pats call time out. Mac hits Agholor for 10 and Pats call time out.

First down TN 42, no time outs left, 15 seconds on the clock.

Mac hits Bourne for a 7 yard gain, Bourne gets out to stop the clock.

Second and 3, TN 35, Mac hits Meyers for a short gain, first down, easier field goal range. Or so it appeared. The pass is incomplete because Meyers made a costly mistake - ran out of bounds on his route, indeed, had his heels out of bounds where he set up to catch the ball.

Folk needs to try the 53 yarder and he misses it. Half ends with Pats up 3.

Anyway, key mistakes by Henry and Meyers and the defense killed them, but I was happy to see everything else about how they played the last 2 minutes.
 

BigJimEd

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Anyway, key mistakes by Henry and Meyers and the defense killed them, but I was happy to see everything else about how they played the last 2 minutes.
You can include Mac's pass to Agholor as well. Throw was high. With a better throw, Agholor gains another yard or two and easily gets out of bounds saving their last time out.
 

BigSoxFan

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I remain both annoyed and amused at Gilmore’s decision to force his way off the team for the same contract. His old team is coming together while his new team is melting down.
 

lexrageorge

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On defense, obvious game ball to JC Jackson, who I really do hope is back in the home locker room in Foxboro next season.

And while the run defense was uneven (charitable, I know), I did hear Bentley's name a bunch of times, and usually in a good way. And a shout out for Jalen Mills for staying with the play, which allowed him to be in position to recover the fumble.

On offense, Bourne and Myers are the winners, although I also thought Jonnu Smith had by far his best game as a Patriot. Stevenson had some strong runs down the stretch, which do count as well. Had the Pats not put together that long drive in the 4th quarter, the Titans could have been right back in it.

I'll give Mac a B-. Not nearly as bad as the game thread comments indicated, but there were some rather bad mistakes that could have cost them the game and definitely cost them some points. I thought he did throw some nice deep balls a couple of times.
 

BaseballJones

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So yesterday they gave up 270 rush yards, but only 85 passing yards. That's 355 total yards. On average this year, NFL teams are gaining 349 yards per game, so the Pats had basically a league-average performance yesterday in terms of yards allowed.

So....would we be feeling better about the defense if the Pats had allowed 85 rush yards and 270 passing yards instead of the other way around? Does it really matter how they get to 355? What if it was 170 rush yards and 185 passing yards? Or 130 rush yards and 225 passing yards?
 

Super Nomario

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So yesterday they gave up 270 rush yards, but only 85 passing yards. That's 355 total yards. On average this year, NFL teams are gaining 349 yards per game, so the Pats had basically a league-average performance yesterday in terms of yards allowed.

So....would we be feeling better about the defense if the Pats had allowed 85 rush yards and 270 passing yards instead of the other way around? Does it really matter how they get to 355? What if it was 170 rush yards and 185 passing yards? Or 130 rush yards and 225 passing yards?
Given the state of Tennessee's receiving corps yesterday, I would feel way worse if they gave up 200+ passing yards. I'm not thrilled with giving up a ton of rush yards either, but I think it's easier to laugh off as mostly just a couple uncharacteristic bad plays.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I'll give Mac a B-. Not nearly as bad as the game thread comments indicated, but there were some rather bad mistakes that could have cost them the game and definitely cost them some points. I thought he did throw some nice deep balls a couple of times.
I don;t know if I'd go as low as B-, but this was difinitely one of those games were the stats were better than the performance.
You can include Mac's pass to Agholor as well. Throw was high. With a better throw, Agholor gains another yard or two and easily gets out of bounds saving their last time out.
Yes, good point. I'd characterize Mac's problems this way:
1. Sailing throws high, including two to Henry (one of which would have been an easy TD), the one to Agholor you mention, and maybe others.
2. That one series where he fired what looked like it was supposed to be a swing to the WR into the ground, and then on the next play threw a pass to Jonnu that was undercut by a defender Mac didn't see for a near interception.

The last one just seems like a mistake, and maybe Mac getting stuck in his own head a bit after missing some throws.

What about the others? There is some speculation about whether Mac can handle cold weather, which is obviously something new for him.

Could the weather account for any of Mac's misfires? I have no idea, never been a football player much less a QB, but - for those more knowledgble - might this be a thing? Can sailing throws high be a function of struggling with the cold weather? What does it look like when a QB has trouble passing in cold weather?
 

joe dokes

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And while the run defense was uneven (charitable, I know), I did hear Bentley's name a bunch of times, and usually in a good way. And a shout out for Jalen Mills for staying with the play, which allowed him to be in position to recover the fumble.
Also overlooked (at least on TV) was Mills's actual recovery. He only had one shot to recover *and* stay inbounds. Any sort of bobble or otherwise un-clean recovery and either he or the ball is OOB.
 

joe dokes

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Could the weather account for any of Mac's misfires? I have no idea, never been a football player much less a QB, but - for those more knowledgble - might this be a thing? Can sailing throws high be a function of struggling with the cold weather? What does it look like when a QB has trouble passing in cold weather?
In real time, I thought he might be overcompensating for wind that wasn't there. OTOH--the fade to Bourne was perfectly thrown. Ultimately, though, (and this isn't to single out this post), the tenor of the post-game analysis seems to be, "If only these things hadn't happened, then Mac would have been 32-32." While the above errors were errors, I think the grading around these parts is inappropriately tough.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I remain both annoyed and amused at Gilmore’s decision to force his way off the team for the same contract. His old team is coming together while his new team is melting down.
People keep saying this, but I've yet to hear anyone say he's been good or bad since returning from injury.

If he has to play himself back into shape - or simply isn't the same player - it was addition by subtraction. Not to mention the cap savings to get Collins.
 

BaseballJones

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Mac wasn’t perfect. The two really bad throws were the miss to Henry and the near pick. The swing pass looked like it just slipped out of his hand. Weird but that sometimes happens. Otherwise he completed 71% of his throws and we are nitpicking ball placement on a completion.
 

lexrageorge

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I don;t know if I'd go as low as B-, but this was difinitely one of those games were the stats were better than the performance.Yes, good point. I'd characterize Mac's problems this way:
1. Sailing throws high, including two to Henry (one of which would have been an easy TD), the one to Agholor you mention, and maybe others.
2. That one series where he fired what looked like it was supposed to be a swing to the WR into the ground, and then on the next play threw a pass to Jonnu that was undercut by a defender Mac didn't see for a near interception.

The last one just seems like a mistake, and maybe Mac getting stuck in his own head a bit after missing some throws.

What about the others? There is some speculation about whether Mac can handle cold weather, which is obviously something new for him.

Could the weather account for any of Mac's misfires? I have no idea, never been a football player much less a QB, but - for those more knowledgble - might this be a thing? Can sailing throws high be a function of struggling with the cold weather? What does it look like when a QB has trouble passing in cold weather?
The median NFL QB probably has at least 1 or 2 throws they would love to have back every game. Even Brady would have a couple here and there. The mistakes were notable, but I don't think anyone knowledgeable would conclude that Mac can't handle cold weather based on those misses. If anything, those were mistakes due to him being a rookie QB still adjusting to the overall speed of the NFL game.

Part of the reason for my relatively low grade of B- is that it did seem as if Mac took a couple of bad sacks. And there was one time where I thought he should have taken the sack, and while he did manage to throw the ball out of bounds, he got absolutely drilled in the process.

Mac wasn’t perfect. The two really bad throws were the miss to Henry and the near pick. The swing pass looked like it just slipped out of his hand. Weird but that sometimes happens. Otherwise he completed 71% of his throws and we are nitpicking ball placement on a completion.
Yeah, the nitpicking on the completed passes is over the top, especially the Myers one where it turned out to be a route adjustment based on the coverage.
 

BigSoxFan

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People keep saying this, but I've yet to hear anyone say he's been good or bad since returning from injury.

If he has to play himself back into shape - or simply isn't the same player - it was addition by subtraction. Not to mention the cap savings to get Collins.
He’s still working his way back but I’d much rather have Gilmore for the stretch run than Jalen Mills (despite his good game yesterday) or JoeJuan. Also, this is me being petty for him leaving.
 

pedroia'sboys

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Mac wasn’t perfect. The two really bad throws were the miss to Henry and the near pick. The swing pass looked like it just slipped out of his hand. Weird but that sometimes happens. Otherwise he completed 71% of his throws and we are nitpicking ball placement on a completion.
I was at the game so I didn't follow the game thread, I was quite surprised at the reaction of Mac's play. Then I saw PFF low grade this morning and was even more confused. I thought he played pretty damn well. He had no running game for three quarters, while consistently driving the team up and down the field. He had two bad sacks, and 3-4 passes that were off from my view. The Henry ball and another which could of been a pick six being the worst. I am going to re watch the game, but I thought it was a very solid performance.
 

cornwalls@6

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So yesterday they gave up 270 rush yards, but only 85 passing yards. That's 355 total yards. On average this year, NFL teams are gaining 349 yards per game, so the Pats had basically a league-average performance yesterday in terms of yards allowed.

So....would we be feeling better about the defense if the Pats had allowed 85 rush yards and 270 passing yards instead of the other way around? Does it really matter how they get to 355? What if it was 170 rush yards and 185 passing yards? Or 130 rush yards and 225 passing yards?
There is something a little disheartening about seeing your defense get gashed on the ground. It pokes at the brute force/physical domination element that is still part of the psyche of the game. However, big picture, and strategically within yesterday's game, I think you are right. It ultimately didn't affect the outcome, and going forward, Tennessee might be the only team in the league, or certainly the AFC, capable of doing that to them. So barring a January re-match with them, I don't think a critical concern/fatal weakness was exposed yesterday.
 

ragnarok725

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Yeah, the nitpicking on the completed passes is over the top, especially the Myers one where it turned out to be a route adjustment based on the coverage.
I really don't think that was a route adjustment, it was just a bad ball that Meyers made a great play on. I haven't seen the All-22, but here's a screen cap from the broadcast footage (red box is the ball).

Meyers has a ton of room going to the sideline. Byard is a couple steps behind him laterally, and 2 yards behind him. The obvious ball placement is to lead Meyers towards the sideline. If he puts it in the right spot, it's an uncontested catch. Likely minimal to no chance for YAC, but definitely a secure catch. Instead, the ball is behind Meyers and overthrown. Jakobi basically adjusts by slowing down and peeling back. Byard tries to undercut and misses it.

It's just a bad ball from Mac with a good outcome. I can't imagine this placement was intentional. It was probably further away from his intention than the miss to Henry later, but with just a much better result.

46830
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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How about a day after honorable mention for Bolden?

I thought his play on the first drive was big. It was 3d and 10 in the red zone and he made the first down with some nice running and a bit of a stiff arm.

Playing with the lead turned out to be important yesterday, and they did ultimately have some red zone challenges so it was good to get that first 7 on the board. Lots of good plays that drive, including the TD, but Bolden's conversion also really stood out and he had some other nice plays in the game too.

Edit -- sorry wrong f-ing thread!
 
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DJnVa

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I really don't think that was a route adjustment, it was just a bad ball that Meyers made a great play on. I haven't seen the All-22, but here's a screen cap from the broadcast footage (red box is the ball).

Meyers has a ton of room going to the sideline. Byard is a couple steps behind him laterally, and 2 yards behind him. The obvious ball placement is to lead Meyers towards the sideline. If he puts it in the right spot, it's an uncontested catch. Likely minimal to no chance for YAC, but definitely a secure catch. Instead, the ball is behind Meyers and overthrown. Jakobi basically adjusts by slowing down and peeling back. Byard tries to undercut and misses it.

It's just a bad ball from Mac with a good outcome. I can't imagine this placement was intentional. It was probably further away from his intention than the miss to Henry later, but with just a much better result.
That might be true, but both players said that Meyers isn't really expected to be an option on that play--he's simply running a route to clear out coverage for others. I don't think that play is set up where the QB has enough time to see the coverage on Meyers as much as seeing the effects of the route. When he saw the coverage did not move as expected--the DB didn't follow Meyers and was instead in the area the play is designed to go to--he changed up and took a shot.
 

tims4wins

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How about a day after honorable mention for Bolden?

I thought his play on the first drive was big. It was 3d and 10 in the red zone and he made the first down with some nice running and a bit of a stiff arm.

Playing with the lead turned out to be important yesterday, and they did ultimately have some red zone challenges so it was good to get that first 7 on the board. Lots of good plays that drive, including the TD, but Bolden's conversion also really stood out and he had some other nice plays in the game too.

Edit -- so, I decided to try to figure out some databases and it looks to me as though Carlsen plays the Sicilian most often as black (including all the games in the 2018 championship), but also does play the Ruy Lopez fairly often. Over his career he has played 3...a6 and 3...Nf6 about evenly but has been way more prone to play the Berlin in recent years, playing it many times in a row throughout 2020.
Bolden has been huge this year. It’s unbelievable
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I love those videos. Belichick really seems to like Bourne. Maybe he's our new Jules.

So much in that Kraft Mac embrace.

"You know I'll always love your big brother more."

"Come on, he's in Tampa, can't you love me too?"

"Maybe. But not right away."

"I'm not going to stop until you love me just as much."

"Well, you keep trying but I'm an old man stuck in my ways. I may love you too eventually, but just not as much."