The Game Ball Thread: Wk 15 @ Broncos

Super Nomario

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As for game balls, rather than tiring for the 4th quarter as with many past games played at altitude, the Defense got stop after stop after stop. Take a look at the drive chart from yesterday, it's ridiculous. FIVE CONSECUTIVE three-and-outs, followed by a 6-play turnover on downs? They gave up two bend-but-don't-break 11-play drives in the first half, ending with an INT and a punt, preceded by a 47yd FG drive. The rest of the game they played with flawless execution. Show me a game, since the 2004 AFC Divisional game, where the Pats' defense played better. And we're talking with an UDFA at #1 CB, Eric Rowe, Sheard and Kyle Van Noy are all reclamation projects on their 2nd franchise, etc etc.
Crazy stat: through 9 games, the Patriots defense forced 23 drives with zero first downs (quick turnovers or three-and-outs, essentially, not counting end-of-halfs). This was tied for fifth fewest in the NFL. Over the past 5 games - 25 zero-first-down drives for opposing offenses, the most in the NFL. So they've gone from one of the worst teams in the league at forcing three-and-outs to the best. FWIW, the 2015 Pats were #1 in this category also.

I was as tough as the D on anybody early in the year - even when they weren't giving up points, the defense just could not get off the field, and outside of the Houston game they really struggled putting two decent halves together. That's changed since after Seattle - they are much more stifling. They have not faced good offenses on this current run (SF, NYJ, LA, BAL, DEN), but they weren't facing good defenses early in the year either and they weren't performing this well. The coverage has been better, but the pass rush seems like a bigger factor, especially Flowers, who seems to be what they hoped Easley would be.

On the negative side, I'm a bit surprised at the OL love. They did shut down Von Miller, true, but there were free rushers at Brady on a number of plays and he needed all of his pocket movement skills just to avoid a sack. Joe Thuney in particular seemed to have a rough day. They only ran for 3.5 yards per carry against a D that's allowed 4.2; they couldn't get anything going with Blount all day (he had 17 carries and his longest run was FIVE yards).
 

tims4wins

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Yeah we have had the discussion about points as a measure of the defense ad nauseum, but since Seattle they have given up 69 points in 5 games (13.8 per game). That includes:
7 in garbage time vs. the Niners
7 in garbage time vs. the Rams
14 gift points to the Ravens - a 2 yard drive and a 22 yard drive
Outstanding. They haven't given up a meaningful TD in 2 of the last 3 games
 

ShaneTrot

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On the negative side, I'm a bit surprised at the OL love. They did shut down Von Miller, true, but there were free rushers at Brady on a number of plays and he needed all of his pocket movement skills just to avoid a sack. Joe Thuney in particular seemed to have a rough day. They only ran for 3.5 yards per carry against a D that's allowed 4.2; they couldn't get anything going with Blount all day (he had 17 carries and his longest run was FIVE yards).
I think you are grading a little harshly here. Compared to the AFC championship, this was an excellent performance. Stonewalling Von Miller is a great feat. I think NE came out with a very basic game plan and felt no need to deviate. Why play to Denver's strengths which are its corners? They made a commitment to run the ball and stuck with it.

I am having a great feeling of schadenfreude this morning with this tweet and the Denver defense saying they shut down Brady. NE was never out of control, did not turn the ball over and played smart football.
Emmanuel Sanders ‏@ESanders_10 1h1 hour ago
If you think malcom butler shut me down.. child please!! My 2 year old son Princeton can play Cover 2. Go watch the tape. He know better!
 

tims4wins

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I agree with shanetrot. If the Pats played the same game offensively in the AFCCG that they did yesterday they would have won it. It was the two turnovers that absolutely killed them that game.
 

InstaFace

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Emmanuel Sanders ‏@ESanders_10 1h1 hour ago
If you think malcom butler shut me down.. child please!! My 2 year old son Princeton can play Cover 2. Go watch the tape. He know better!
The few times I saw Butler, he was draped all over the guy he was covering. I remember that sideline play in particular, where the throw took Sanders out of bounds, but had it been in a catchable range, Butler was the one who had position.

As per usual, though, the exemplary skill of the secondary isn't passes-defensed or interceptions, but rather tackling on the first hit and not giving up YAC.
 

NortheasternPJ

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The few times I saw Butler, he was draped all over the guy he was covering. I remember that sideline play in particular, where the throw took Sanders out of bounds, but had it been in a catchable range, Butler was the one who had position.
To be fair, Sanders got some good separation at the end of that play when he shoved Malcom Butler in the back.
 

RedOctober3829

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Not to derail the thread, but this comment got me thinking. 2 hours on the tarmac for an NFL team (at least a well-run and managed one like the Pats) shouldn't be as big of an inconvenience compared to your average Joe. In other words, teams should have charter planes to accomplish travel in the best way possible for the players (i.e. extra large, fully reclining seats, recovery chambers, etc.). A quick Google search turned up some nice plane interiors with executive-style first class seats, but I'm thinking more along the lines of this story about a Nike concept:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2192671-nike-helps-design-airplane-interior-focused-on-athlete-specific-needs

This WSJ article is interesting, but also from 2012, so who knows how accurate it still is.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203897404578076574126494236

[/hijack]
Yeah, they don't travel like that but they aren't exactly sausaged in like you and me on a Southwest flight from Denver either.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Sanders did a great job complaining to the refs as Logan Ryan zipped the other way down the field after intercepting the ball. He probably learned his whining ways from Princeton, who I hear plays a fundamentally sound Cover 2 defense, but hates bedtime.
 

Marciano490

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I spent 5 years working in bars. I saw that face Pagano pulled many a times on girls accosted by drunk fratboys.
 

Super Nomario

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I think you are grading a little harshly here. Compared to the AFC championship, this was an excellent performance. Stonewalling Von Miller is a great feat. I think NE came out with a very basic game plan and felt no need to deviate. Why play to Denver's strengths which are its corners? They made a commitment to run the ball and stuck with it.
The OL did play better than in the AFC Championship Game. And they did do a great job limiting Miller. They did not do an especially good job stopping the rest of the Denver pass rush. And while they committed to the run, they ran the ball poorly. Almost all the scoring drives were pass-heavy; they had a difficult time moving the ball on the ground. Yesterday was the converse of the early-season games where the O carried the load for a suspect D; they really could not get much going offensively, but because the D was handling Denver so effectively, they did not need to try to force the issue. That's different from the OL (or offense in general) playing well.

Also deserving a game ball: the gods of fumble luck. Last year the Broncos recovered all three fumbles in the regular season meeting; yesterday, the Pats recovered all five fumbles.
 

The Needler

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Yeah, they don't travel like that but they aren't exactly sausaged in like you and me on a Southwest flight from Denver either.
I think the Patriots just charter jets from one of the airlines (Delta), and the players sit in coach. Som not much better than what a regular person would get when it comes to comfort.

http://www.patriots.com/sites/patriots.com/files/styles/gallery__lightbox/public/2013/11-November/tempDSP_1397.JPG?itok=Tu5Kj6Fb&timestamp=1439580638
 

RedOctober3829

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I think the Patriots just charter jets from one of the airlines (Delta), and the players sit in coach. Som not much better than what a regular person would get when it comes to comfort.

http://www.patriots.com/sites/patriots.com/files/styles/gallery__lightbox/public/2013/11-November/tempDSP_1397.JPG?itok=Tu5Kj6Fb&timestamp=1439580638
That's how most teams do it. Some may take bigger planes with more seats to spread out their players depending on length of flight and also depending on if they fly their equipment to the game or drive the equipment with a semi.
 

Stitch01

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Sanders twitter audition for a color role during his freed up month of January aside, were the Pats playing a lot of cover two yesterday? Would be interesting because Jerry Thornton said they did so against Baltimore as well and they hadn't been playing much cover two before that AFAIK.
 

singaporesoxfan

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Not to derail the thread, but this comment got me thinking. 2 hours on the tarmac for an NFL team (at least a well-run and managed one like the Pats) shouldn't be as big of an inconvenience compared to your average Joe. In other words, teams should have charter planes to accomplish travel in the best way possible for the players (i.e. extra large, fully reclining seats, recovery chambers, etc.). A quick Google search turned up some nice plane interiors with executive-style first class seats, but I'm thinking more along the lines of this story about a Nike concept:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2192671-nike-helps-design-airplane-interior-focused-on-athlete-specific-needs

This WSJ article is interesting, but also from 2012, so who knows how accurate it still is.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203897404578076574126494236

[/hijack]
I agree teams should do stuff like that, but teams don't always do what's best for their players for some reason. For example, many teams apparently still make many of the players share rooms when they are on the road (if I recall Andrew Brandt correctly), and I would imagine being the same room as another 300-lb guy is sub-optimal for rest or recovery.
 

lexrageorge

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The OL did play better than in the AFC Championship Game. And they did do a great job limiting Miller. They did not do an especially good job stopping the rest of the Denver pass rush. And while they committed to the run, they ran the ball poorly. Almost all the scoring drives were pass-heavy; they had a difficult time moving the ball on the ground. Yesterday was the converse of the early-season games where the O carried the load for a suspect D; they really could not get much going offensively, but because the D was handling Denver so effectively, they did not need to try to force the issue. That's different from the OL (or offense in general) playing well.

Also deserving a game ball: the gods of fumble luck. Last year the Broncos recovered all three fumbles in the regular season meeting; yesterday, the Pats recovered all five fumbles.
Another way to look at the OL play is that the Pats had only 1 negative run out of 38 running plays (ignoring Brady's kneel down).

Also, I took a quick look at the play-by-play, and the Pats had 31 series of downs in their 13 offensive drives. Of those, I counted 17 series where the Pats had 3rd down. I took a look at the yardages the Pats had to make on those 17 series, and broke those out by types of preceding plays:

a.) Pats ran on first two downs: 3, 8, 3*, 5*, 4 (FG), 1*, 5, 3 (FG), 3**, 4 (Mean: 3.9)

b.) Pats ran on one down: 10 (FG), 10, 9, 2*, 6* (Mean: 5)

c.) Pats passed on first two downs: 5, 10 (Mean: 7.5)

The * means the Pats converted the 3rd down to a first; the ** indicates a defensive penalty (this was TJ Ward's penalty on Edelman).

The offense was by no means perfect running the ball. However, if you look at the running game as a tool to give you 3rd-and-short, the Pats did OK. There were only 3 3rd-and-10's all day, and staying out of 3rd-and-long was probably a key factor in neutralizing the Bronco's pass rush.

It wasn't perfect, but they were playing against the league's top passing defense.
 

Toe Nash

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If the refs don't agree that there's indisputable evidence, then your next challenge is your last.

I would have preferred Bill challenge, especially with the down-the-line angle we had, but at the 1 yard line and with a recovery ruled for the offense, I can understand him holding onto his ammunition.
Yes, but since every play called a turnover or score on the field is reviewed (and I believe refs err on the side of calling them as such since they could overturn with no harm done), there are fewer opportunities to challenge these days. How often do teams even use two challenges in one game? If you think it's a TD you should definitely challenge (and it sounds like BB tried to).
 

tims4wins

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Another way to look at the OL play is that the Pats had only 1 negative run out of 38 running plays (ignoring Brady's kneel down).

Also, I took a quick look at the play-by-play, and the Pats had 31 series of downs in their 13 offensive drives. Of those, I counted 17 series where the Pats had 3rd down. I took a look at the yardages the Pats had to make on those 17 series, and broke those out by types of preceding plays:

a.) Pats ran on first two downs: 3, 8, 3*, 5*, 4 (FG), 1*, 5, 3 (FG), 3**, 4 (Mean: 3.9)

b.) Pats ran on one down: 10 (FG), 10, 9, 2*, 6* (Mean: 5)

c.) Pats passed on first two downs: 5, 10 (Mean: 7.5)

The * means the Pats converted the 3rd down to a first; the ** indicates a defensive penalty (this was TJ Ward's penalty on Edelman).

The offense was by no means perfect running the ball. However, if you look at the running game as a tool to give you 3rd-and-short, the Pats did OK. There were only 3 3rd-and-10's all day, and staying out of 3rd-and-long was probably a key factor in neutralizing the Bronco's pass rush.

It wasn't perfect, but they were playing against the league's top passing defense.
Your numbers are the yards to gain on 3rd down, yes? So they averaged 3rd and 4 when running twice?
 

kenneycb

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Yes, but since every play called a turnover or score on the field is reviewed (and I believe refs err on the side of calling them as such since they could overturn with no harm done), there are fewer opportunities to challenge these days. How often do teams even use two challenges in one game? If you think it's a TD you should definitely challenge (and it sounds like BB tried to).
I think the graphic popped up on the screen during the Giants game yesterday but Belichick "leads" the league in fewest challenges this year with 2, while McAdoo has 4.
 

ZMart100

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Super Nomario

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Another way to look at the OL play is that the Pats had only 1 negative run out of 38 running plays (ignoring Brady's kneel down).

Also, I took a quick look at the play-by-play, and the Pats had 31 series of downs in their 13 offensive drives. Of those, I counted 17 series where the Pats had 3rd down.
Seventeen third downs is way too many. That is a shocking number of third downs. Consider that in their one touchdown drive, they faced zero third downs. In one of the FG drives, they didn't face a third down until the drive stalled out. Running twice and asking Brady to complete a stick throw on third down is tough sledding. Running the ball effectively isn't just making third down manageable, it's also picking up first downs. They had 37 rushes yesterday and gained only six first downs.
 

Curtis Pride

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I'd like to give a game ball to the TD drive in the second quarter. The drive started with Logan Ryan's interception at the NE 8 and returned to the Denver 46 for a 46-yard return. It prevented a potential Broncos TD or at minimum a Broncos FG, and it shortened the field for the NE offense.

On the first play, Brady fumbled as he was sacked, but as luck would have it, Joe Thuney recovered it. After the fumble recovery, Brady made his first completion in the game to Edelman for 17 yards. Blount's 10-yard run was negated by a 10-yard holding penalty. Brady hooked up with Edelman for two more passes of 15 and 12 yards. Then Brady found Develin open for a 13-yard reception along the right sideline. From the 3, Dion Lewis tried punching it in and fumbled, but again as luck would have it, the ball rolled back to him. Finally Blount ran it in from the 1.

So this drive contained:
The lone interception of the game
Tom Brady 4 completions on 4 attempts for 57 yards after going 0-6 in the first quarter
2 rushes for 3 yards
2 fumbles that the Patriots recovered.

The only negative plays were the 4-yard loss from the strip sack and the 10-yard holding penalty.

By negating a potential Denver score and converting the game's only TD, this drive had the biggest impact on the game.
 

lexrageorge

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Seventeen third downs is way too many. That is a shocking number of third downs. Consider that in their one touchdown drive, they faced zero third downs. In one of the FG drives, they didn't face a third down until the drive stalled out. Running twice and asking Brady to complete a stick throw on third down is tough sledding. Running the ball effectively isn't just making third down manageable, it's also picking up first downs. They had 37 rushes yesterday and gained only six first downs.
I think it was their passing game that was the problem, not the run game. And, in this particular case, one really does need to take into account both the venue and the opposition. There's only been 3 games where Denver has allowed more than 200 yards passing all season.
 

Super Nomario

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I think it was their passing game that was the problem, not the run game. And, in this particular case, one really does need to take into account both the venue and the opposition. There's only been 3 games where Denver has allowed more than 200 yards passing all season.
I don't think it's an either-or. They struggled to run the ball and they struggled to pass the ball.
 

Curtis Pride

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To build on my earlier post, the two FG drives in the second half were the two longest drives the Patriots had in the game. (The TD drive, at 46 net yards, was their third longest.) In those two drives Brady completed 6 of 9 passes for 95 yards, and Patriots rushers carried the ball 6 times for 16 yards.

So in these three scoring drives:
Brady 10-13 152 yds
NE rushers 8 att 19 yds

Rest of the game:
Brady 6-29 36 yds
NE rushers 31 att 117 yds

The majority of Brady's completions on the scoring drives were 10+ yards on first downs. The third-quarter FG drive was the only one in which New England converted a third down. So I guess the offense was really effective only when they could get a first down with a pass. The running game really didn't do that much except take time off the clock after they got a lead.
 

H78

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Everyone gets a game ball.

This is not meant to sound braggy, but I was at the game yesterday and it was *brutally* cold, particularly in the shade, which covered most of the stadium and field. The last thing I would have wanted to do yesterday was play football. I had several layers, thick socks, boots, gloves, etc and I was still freezing my ass off.

It got so cold that we left after the third quarter to watch the rest of the game at a nearby bar. My friend's toes were literally going numb because Mile High did a horrible job with snow removal from a moderate (at best) storm that rolled through a full two days before the game, so all of our seats and rows were covered in snow, and in the shade it had to be around 0 degrees. It was the least amount of fun I've ever had at an NFL game. It made me never want to purchase a ticket again for a game at Mile High that's after the month of November.

Having said all of that...super, super brutal conditions against a hard-hitting team and they pulled it out. This team has plenty of mental toughness.
 
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Al Zarilla

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Everyone gets a game ball.

This is not meant to sound braggy, but I was at the game yesterday and it was *brutally* cold, particularly in the shade, which covered most of the stadium and field. The last thing I would have wanted to do yesterday was play football. I had several layers, thick socks, boots, gloves, etc and I was still freezing my ass off.

It got so cold that we left after the third quarter to watch the rest of the game at a nearby bar. My friend's toes were literally going numb because Mile High did a horrible job with snow removal from a moderate (at best) storm that rolled through a full two days before the game, so all of our seats and rows were covered in snow, and in the shade it had to be around 0 degrees. It was the least amount of fun I've ever had at an NFL game. It made me never want to purchase a ticket again for a game at Mile High that's after the month of November.

Having said all of that...super, super brutal conditions against a hard-hitting team and they pulled it out. This team has plenty of mental toughness.
You get a game ball for enduring that cold. No such thing as a "dry cold" either, huh?
 

Van Everyman

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How about a game ball to Belichick for trolling the shit out of the league:

Did you to see the Patriots’ formation with about 5:40 to go in the first quarter? Yup, they ran the same eligible-ineligible play that they did in the Ravens playoff game two years ago (and it just happened to come in a game being officiated by Walt Anderson, who was the Deflategate referee). And it was legal, too.

The Patriots put linebacker Shea McClellin in the “Shane Vereen role” as the ineligible player, took Thuney off the field, put Solder at left guard and Lengel at left tackle, who was eligible. At the snap, McClellin ran backward because he was ineligible, but he still drew Miller over to cover him, taking Miller out of the play.

Meanwhile, Lengel streaked down the field, and the Patriots were hoping he would be wide open, like Michael Hoomanawanui was two years ago. But credit Broncos linebacker Corey Nelson for recognizing the play and covering Lengel, forcing Brady to throw incomplete to Bennett instead.

Why did the Patriots use McClellin in that position? The new NFL rule that came in response to the Patriots’ formation makes it illegal for an offensive player with an eligible number to line up outside the tackle box as an ineligible receiver. So a running back, receiver or tight end couldn’t do it.

But the rule doesn’t say anything about defensive players. And McClellin, a linebacker who wears No. 58, does not wear an “eligible” jersey number
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/patriots/2016/12/19/patriots-created-mismatches-offense-expose-broncos-flaws/ZEcuoXsvJE8omrKpC8aRRJ/story.html
 

Ed Hillel

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Here
That has to be Volin's best article, thanks for linking it. He also points out that Hightower was limited and didn't look right because of his knee.

Which gets me to thinking...you know, I like what Hightower brings to the field, but is the guy ever healthy? I'm not saying he isn't tough, but he's getting a bit older and how much can you rely on a guy with his injury history moving forward? It seems like he is rarely playing at the top of his game. I wouldn't be stunned if Hightower is playing elsewhere next season if BB doesn't think he's worth 15 million to franchise (he probably isn't).

Then again, they have a TON of cap space and need to spend it somehow, and this isn't exactly the best free agent class.
 
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staz

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Even with the wonky rule change (based on uniform numbers now!), the fact that BB's players are all so cross-trained that even a backup LB draws coverage, well that is particularly delicious.

"Shit, ineligible? What? I bet he was a receiver in college or some shit... uhhmmm....I better cover him."


Game ball to BB
 

staz

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The cradle of the game.
See, now what they can do is go into an odd-looking (but legal) formation, and have a WR approach the line yelling and waving his hands "I AM ELIGIBLE"

Enter the dumbass corner overthinks it and let's him go uncovered for an easy completion.

"Oh no, I ain't fallin for that shit... oh fuck me."
 

speedracer

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It's really not meant to be that hard.

The eligible receivers are the guys on the ends of the line and the guys off the line (including the guy taking the snap if he's not under center).
 

PedroKsBambino

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See, now what they can do is go into an odd-looking (but legal) formation, and have a WR approach the line yelling and waving his hands "I AM ELIGIBLE"

Enter the dumbass corner overthinks it and let's him go uncovered for an easy completion.

"Oh no, I ain't fallin for that shit... oh fuck me."
Wait until they break out the Colts fake-punt formation and actually run a decent play out of it. I'm surprised they didn't do it while Grif Whalen was on the roster.
 

joe dokes

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It's really not meant to be that hard.

The eligible receivers are the guys on the ends of the line and the guys off the line (including the guy taking the snap if he's not under center).
True. But it takes a supremely well-coached, calm and confident defender to look at McClellan, where he was lined up, who he plays for, and just leave him be.
 

InstaFace

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It just occurred to me that given Brady's initial couple throws of the game, which were wounded ducks chucked into the ground only vaguely near their receivers, the Monday morning all-hands Belichick film review session must have been fucking hilarious.
 

Super Nomario

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Even with the wonky rule change (based on uniform numbers now!), the fact that BB's players are all so cross-trained that even a backup LB draws coverage, well that is particularly delicious.

"Shit, ineligible? What? I bet he was a receiver in college or some shit... uhhmmm....I better cover him."


Game ball to BB
I wonder if McClellin's uniform number 58 was part of the plan here, too. I imagine guys aren't paying super-close attention to the uniform numbers and the "8" in there gives it some legitimacy. McClellin is 6'3" 250 too, so easy to mistake him for a third-string TE in the heat of the moment.
 

Bowhemian

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It is mentioned upthread, but bears repeating...the Broncos had to put a man on McClellin. Just because he is an ineligible receiver does not mean that he can't get the ball. He just can't catch a pass or go downfield prior to a pass. Likely? Nope, I would put the odds of him getting a lateral at about 1/1,000,000. But the defense can't completely ignore him either. As someone said, that play was designed to do one thing...get Von Miller off the line of scrimmage and out of the play.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Really not enough love here for Solder, with another fantastic game...the line fell apart last year once he went down, and it seems all the credit goes to Dante for this year's turnaround....while Dante is great, it seems that a huge portion of this year's success is Solder's health
 

lexrageorge

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I seem to recall Cannon had a foot injury that cost him a few games, and he was clearly limited when he came back. Both Mason and Andrews have developed from their rookie seasons, and Thuney has done a credible job as a rookie, despite his struggles Sunday. And, of course, Solder.