Less narrative and more appreciation. I think the Pats are the better team and win this game more than they lose, but it is what it is.
We are lucky to be in the position to finish second in the AFC again.
The Game Goat Thread: AFCCG @ Broncos
- Thread starter SeoulSoxFan
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We are lucky to be in the position to finish second in the AFC again.
Glad I'm not the only one. Today was the clincher though. He's just a bad NFL offensive lineman.
Hard to say it's poor team construction with the sheer number of injuries they had on the offensive line. There a only so many capable lineman in the NFL, let alone on a single roster. It's really unfortunate, but after today Cannon should no longer be employed on a 53 man.
What sheer number of injuries on the OL? Solder? Wendell? Tre' Jackson? Denver was down two LTs today, too.
I think the KC game fooled us - a lot of the problems from after 10-0 reared their ugly head today. Yes we still almost won this game just like the Jets game but I think Carolina would have won by at least 7, shame we won't get the chance though.
This one stings even though last year still happened and that should make it easier to take.
Injuries suck. The Pats were defending champs and started the year with clearly the best team in the league. Reasonable health and they probably go no worse than 14-2 and today's game is at home. It's the part of football that sucks the most, but what can you do?
Need to seriously revamp the o-line. Otherwise they'll be good again next year.
Fucking sucks that a shitty, HGH addled Manning is going to have a shot to finish his career this way. Fuck him. Although maybe he's delusional enough to try to play one more year and maybe Elway is dumb enough to try to keep the band together.
Man, this sucks.
Injuries suck. The Pats were defending champs and started the year with clearly the best team in the league. Reasonable health and they probably go no worse than 14-2 and today's game is at home. It's the part of football that sucks the most, but what can you do?
Need to seriously revamp the o-line. Otherwise they'll be good again next year.
Fucking sucks that a shitty, HGH addled Manning is going to have a shot to finish his career this way. Fuck him. Although maybe he's delusional enough to try to play one more year and maybe Elway is dumb enough to try to keep the band together.
Man, this sucks.
Yeah, and they have put up 42 against Arizona, have a better o-line than NE and have somethings we don't -- a running game and a QB whose legs are a weapon.
I thought Denver's punt game was fantastic. Was it Denver's credit, or the Pat's fault?
I was referring to the season in its entirety not just today and responding to Kilqs post. Context. It matters.
Not many "what ifs" when you get clobbered. You get emotionally numb pretty quick.
Have to wonder a bit if the OL were hitting the "rookie wall" later in the season. I don't think they were perfect all year (and the great skill play in the first half of the season covered for some technical weaknesses on the OL, plus having Solder helps) but it does seem like they broke down as the season went on.
Other than that, I put most of this on BB. Thought he had a bad day. Didn't understand playing soft in the first defensive drive. Thought they had another one of those halfway pregnant drives near the end of the half where they neither killed clock nor gave themselves a shot to make a first. Not kicking the FG on 4th and 1 was bad - you have to believe that the Broncos are still going to play pretty conservative on their next offensive series if they have a lead, and the D had been great. In general it seemed to me like BB thought he was in one of those games where he needs Brady to win it for him because he's up against Peyton, but he forgot he was up against 49 year old game manager Peyton. He made several of those classic "bet on the unit you trust most" type calls, but he was betting on the wrong unit.
I thought the loss of Lewis (or the general lack of a credible RB threat in the passing game) was big today. They needed one more mismatch, and between Lafell, Amendola, Chandler et al... they couldn't find it. White was the closest thing but he wasn't enough. If they tried to cover Lewis (or Vereen, or Faulk) with a single LB all day, NE moves the ball at will.
Finally, Brady. For the Miller pick. The rest of the game was kind of understandable with the OL issues, but that pick was just brutal and unforgivable.
Hard to imagine losing this one at home. And can't complain about the officiating. I can't kick the thought that the staff tried to get a little too cute with managing the roster situation in the 2nd half of the season, and I hope if they start out strong next year, they keep in mind the importance of HFA in the playoffs.
Other than that, I put most of this on BB. Thought he had a bad day. Didn't understand playing soft in the first defensive drive. Thought they had another one of those halfway pregnant drives near the end of the half where they neither killed clock nor gave themselves a shot to make a first. Not kicking the FG on 4th and 1 was bad - you have to believe that the Broncos are still going to play pretty conservative on their next offensive series if they have a lead, and the D had been great. In general it seemed to me like BB thought he was in one of those games where he needs Brady to win it for him because he's up against Peyton, but he forgot he was up against 49 year old game manager Peyton. He made several of those classic "bet on the unit you trust most" type calls, but he was betting on the wrong unit.
I thought the loss of Lewis (or the general lack of a credible RB threat in the passing game) was big today. They needed one more mismatch, and between Lafell, Amendola, Chandler et al... they couldn't find it. White was the closest thing but he wasn't enough. If they tried to cover Lewis (or Vereen, or Faulk) with a single LB all day, NE moves the ball at will.
Finally, Brady. For the Miller pick. The rest of the game was kind of understandable with the OL issues, but that pick was just brutal and unforgivable.
Hard to imagine losing this one at home. And can't complain about the officiating. I can't kick the thought that the staff tried to get a little too cute with managing the roster situation in the 2nd half of the season, and I hope if they start out strong next year, they keep in mind the importance of HFA in the playoffs.
One of the more surprising aspects of this game is just how clearly Phil Simms can speak with Peyton Manning's entire penis and both testicles in his mouth. Regardless of how hung the man is, that's a lot of additional flesh to have in ones mouth and still speak at the same time.
He gave manning credit for Allen having to punt out of the back of the end zone FFS.
He gave manning credit for Allen having to punt out of the back of the end zone FFS.
Game thread title: I know it didn't affect the game but now that thread is just fucking sitting there all offseason.
Sure, someone may change it but we'll know what it said.
Sure, someone may change it but we'll know what it said.
Really? I think the OL issues are just as bad at home as they are on the road. The only change is maybe the ability to use a hard count or moving off of 1, but they were still 5 sieves. Von Miller doesn't magically get worse at sea level.
There were a bunch of plays where it looked like the Denver lineman were firing off the ball quicker than the Pats lineman. Doubt that happens at home, where it would be easier for them to change cadences and snap counts. Also would have to guess that it's far less likely Ghost misses that XP in Foxboro.
They lost by two in a game where the offense played like total dogshit for three and a half quarters. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that they win this game if it's played in Foxboro.
I was really hoping losing homefield wouldn't come back to bite them in the ass, but it clearly did.
If there was a "blowout" narrative here, I missed it. People hoped for it, obviously, and one could envision the game unfolding that way. Bedard, I think, may have predicted it. But most pats fans here were concerned all along. And not just by the officiating, which proved a non-factor. We got our butts beat on the o-line. That has happened in important games before.
Man, this one stung.
But someday, probably sooner than later, the season is going to end after a game in Week 17, with the Pats out of the playoff race and down by 3 scores as the final whistle blows. This is something that has happened for fans of nearly every other team, not just in the NFL but in all of sports, very, very recently.
There are certainly players, units, coaches that deserve a goat for this one, but right now, I just want to sit back an appreciate the fact that, once again, the Patriots were there right to the bitter end, in a game in which they seemed to get outplayed for 60 minutes and yet somehow, someway, found it in themselves to make it seem doable in the end.
I love this team. And I am sad that this season is over.
But someday, probably sooner than later, the season is going to end after a game in Week 17, with the Pats out of the playoff race and down by 3 scores as the final whistle blows. This is something that has happened for fans of nearly every other team, not just in the NFL but in all of sports, very, very recently.
There are certainly players, units, coaches that deserve a goat for this one, but right now, I just want to sit back an appreciate the fact that, once again, the Patriots were there right to the bitter end, in a game in which they seemed to get outplayed for 60 minutes and yet somehow, someway, found it in themselves to make it seem doable in the end.
I love this team. And I am sad that this season is over.
I think the coaches are well aware of the importance of HFA. I tend to believe that report after the Miami game that they really only had about 3 dozen players who should have played at all in that one.
This team really hasn't had a good road playoff performance since the 2005 AFCCG. In 2006, they were crap against Denver. In 2007, they played a poor game against SD but somehow won only to blow a massive lead in Indy the following week. In 2013, they sucked but they never had a chance given the personnel. And this year they went out to Denver and played their C game. Obviously, winning on the road in the NFL playoffs is not easy but I'd like to see another marquee road playoff win for Brady before he's done. Or just another 3-4 seasons of #1 seeds. That'd be fine too.
The offensive line was the goat, but a lack of creative adjustments didn't even try to get them off the hook. a couple of jet sweeps or something like that to take advantage of edge rushers with no interest in keeping contain might have been nice. No real use of screen passes either.
Still, a PAT miss from one of the best kickers ever in the game ended up being the difference despite a terrible game by the offense. The other guys are professionals, too, and rooting for a team that plays their worst game of the season to lose by a point to the one seed just shows how awesome this ride is.
Still, a PAT miss from one of the best kickers ever in the game ended up being the difference despite a terrible game by the offense. The other guys are professionals, too, and rooting for a team that plays their worst game of the season to lose by a point to the one seed just shows how awesome this ride is.
Yeah, these were my thoughts as well, plus Manning deals with most of what Brady was dealing with in DEN.
Watching the replay of the two point conversion is just painful. Gronk is inexplicably left 1-on-1 with Keo and breaks completely open but Kline does an awful job picking up a simple blitz from Marshall and Brady panics and misreads the defense and throws the no-hoper to Edelman. If Kline can just marginally delay Marshall and Brady has a half second to scan the field he probably makes a very simple toss to Gronk breaking toward the corner.
McDaniels doesn't decide where the ball is thrown. He calls the play, Brady looks at the defense and finds the best matchup. I hated all the wheel routes to white too but I doubt McDaniels called those plays with the intention of that being Brady's best option. Got to give some credit to the Broncos for forcing that throw and/or a ding for Brady, the OL and the other receivers for not allowing better options.
Calling the play caller out after a game is fine, doing it for a complaint like that is stupid.
Wonder why they never gave Michael Willams a shot at RT all game. He may have had the quickness to handle Miller and doubtful he would have been worse than Cannon. Miller certainly isn't going to overpower anyone so playing with a lighter, more mobile RT may have worked. Stork at RT should have been another option. Cannon was beat before Brady had the ball far too many times.
Don't know if those decisions fall on BB, McDaniels, Googe or some combo but the inability to make protection changes was baffling.
Don't know if those decisions fall on BB, McDaniels, Googe or some combo but the inability to make protection changes was baffling.
Williams hasn't played much true tackle this year, but it would have been worth a shot.
This was one of worst performances by the coaching staff (BB, McD, Googe) in a long time. It honestly had me thinking that Belichick might be losing his mental fastball. I mean, he is 63 years old.
This was one of worst performances by the coaching staff (BB, McD, Googe) in a long time. It honestly had me thinking that Belichick might be losing his mental fastball. I mean, he is 63 years old.
Question for you: when you're really really stupid do you realize you're stupid or are you just too fucking dumb to know?
O-Line for me, and it's not close. Just a pitiful performance.
I saw Gronk break open on that 2-pt conversion right away, but Brady had no time. I just wish they would have looked first to Gronk and forced it to him if left with no choices.
I saw Gronk break open on that 2-pt conversion right away, but Brady had no time. I just wish they would have looked first to Gronk and forced it to him if left with no choices.
We're not in the business of scripting losses, but this was the least painful loss imaginable in Denver. Some days they are just better than you. Brady, characteristically, is pointing the finger at himself and not throwing the o-line under the bus.
Painful to relive but thank you for putting that together.
I don't feel any better but at least I now understand why.
I don't like the concept of GOATs, but the more I think of it, it has to be special teams, which on the surface seems ridiculous given the missed XP happens so early and Ghost did hit two FGs and boom all kickoffs. Without the missed XP the game goes into OT and regardless of the victor in OT, the narrative is much different.
In such a defensive struggle ST errors just cannot occur, not in perfect kicking conditions. Horrible returns and decisions by DA (and great Denver punts) in the second half flipped field position, and a bad punt by Allen at the end of the first half gave the Broncos the ball near the 50 and an easy FG. As much as the game seemed to favor the Broncos, the game was essentially even, trading FGs, gift TDs off of turnovers, with an early TD by Denver and a late TD by the Pats. As dominant as the Broncos D was in containing Brady, so was the Pats D, limiting the Broncos to 5 second half punts (four 3 and outs).
In such a defensive struggle ST errors just cannot occur, not in perfect kicking conditions. Horrible returns and decisions by DA (and great Denver punts) in the second half flipped field position, and a bad punt by Allen at the end of the first half gave the Broncos the ball near the 50 and an easy FG. As much as the game seemed to favor the Broncos, the game was essentially even, trading FGs, gift TDs off of turnovers, with an early TD by Denver and a late TD by the Pats. As dominant as the Broncos D was in containing Brady, so was the Pats D, limiting the Broncos to 5 second half punts (four 3 and outs).
Your screen name completes this post. Tough miss but anyone blaming Gost for the loss is basically a "Johhny from Burger King" kind of fan.
Gronk broke open right in front of where Brady was running on the 2 pointer, so I'm guessing Brady just panicked. He was hit so often that it's understandable, but you still expect better. Brady appeared to make a handful or more mental mistakes yesterday that he doesn't normally make
This is also Shank's narrative; and, for what it's worth, Shank's take is completely worthless. This narrative ignores the fact that winning at home in the playoffs is not easy either. Not only the Pats, but other teams such as Denver (Manning), Indy (Manning again), Pittsburgh (Ben), Green Bay (Rodgers), all have lost tough playoff games at home. It also ignores the fact that winning the Super Bowl on a neutral field is no piece of cake either.
Home field may have helped here, but the Patriots defense played well in the 4th quarter, the area where Denver supposedly has the best advantage. But expecting HFA to be some panacea is yet another Shank-like take on the situation (memo to CHB: the Miami game had nothing to do with this loss).
With regards to roster construction, which was noted upthread: the OL just hasn't played well the 2nd half of the season. Yes, the loss of Edelman and Lewis hurt, but the OL needs more than just the return of Nate Solder. As constructed, the line is flawed. However, I don't blame Belichick the GM for this. The OL last season was good enough to win a Super Bowl, and faulting the roster construction implies that there were alternative moves Belichick the GM could have made. The Pats drafted Mason and Jackson and signed Andrews. But the Pats had to replace Connolly and Wendell, then Stork for part of the season, and then Solder, while dealing with injuries to both Cannon and Vollmer. There's only so many holes that can be plugged at any one time. Canon looked OK in a backup tackle role last season; some times players in such roles continue to improve, and others regress or get badly exposed. Unfortunately, Cannon took the latter path; not sure that was forseeable.
Not sure I can bear to read the whole thread yet, but a few thoughts:
1--I would have kicked FG with about 6 minutes left. I thought the offense was starting to get it together, and the defense was shutting the Broncos down. With how quick they were getting the Broncos off the field we may have been able to go FG, FG, FG in the last 6 minutes. That said, BB has infinite goodwill built up with me, so it really doesn't bother me that much.
2--I thought the 2 point play should have been the play that won the Super Bowl to Edelman or the one to Gronk last week.
3--The OL has to get fixed. I'm not enough of an OL guy to know the best way to do that, but if the Pats want to go nuts next season, it's not a Randy Moss that Brady needs, it's an OL.
4--I want a RB. It's not Blount as much as I like him. With White's emergence, not sure how the offense will work if Lewis comes back, but those 2 and a real RB is something I'd like to see.
5--I hope we find out that LaFell was hampered by injuries this season.
6--Brady looked off. I know it was because he was getting mauled. That said, he got us down the field 3 times in the last 6 minutes. Another outcome was there, we just couldn't grab it.
7--Sucks for Gostkowksi, but I guess he was "due".
8--Gotta dive into some offseason threads, but I think this defense will be even better next season. I'd imagine we go into 2016 as the betting favorites in the AFC.
1--I would have kicked FG with about 6 minutes left. I thought the offense was starting to get it together, and the defense was shutting the Broncos down. With how quick they were getting the Broncos off the field we may have been able to go FG, FG, FG in the last 6 minutes. That said, BB has infinite goodwill built up with me, so it really doesn't bother me that much.
2--I thought the 2 point play should have been the play that won the Super Bowl to Edelman or the one to Gronk last week.
3--The OL has to get fixed. I'm not enough of an OL guy to know the best way to do that, but if the Pats want to go nuts next season, it's not a Randy Moss that Brady needs, it's an OL.
4--I want a RB. It's not Blount as much as I like him. With White's emergence, not sure how the offense will work if Lewis comes back, but those 2 and a real RB is something I'd like to see.
5--I hope we find out that LaFell was hampered by injuries this season.
6--Brady looked off. I know it was because he was getting mauled. That said, he got us down the field 3 times in the last 6 minutes. Another outcome was there, we just couldn't grab it.
7--Sucks for Gostkowksi, but I guess he was "due".
8--Gotta dive into some offseason threads, but I think this defense will be even better next season. I'd imagine we go into 2016 as the betting favorites in the AFC.
Brady made some mistakes for sure and is far from blameless (particularly the Miller INT which was awful). But the guy is 38 years old and took an absolute pounding. If the Pats had hit Manning as many times as Brady was hit yesterday Osweiller would have been in the game before halftime. Its really a testament to Brady's toughness, but at some point his body is going to give out if he keeps getting killed like that.
If the path to the Super Bowl that the Pats are going to choose to take is to ride a 38 (39 next year) old guy they absolutely have to figure out a way to protect him better than they did today. Denver has an elite pass rush but chances are you are going to have to beat a team with an elite pass rush at some point in the playoffs.
If the path to the Super Bowl that the Pats are going to choose to take is to ride a 38 (39 next year) old guy they absolutely have to figure out a way to protect him better than they did today. Denver has an elite pass rush but chances are you are going to have to beat a team with an elite pass rush at some point in the playoffs.
Passing game is the functional equivalent of a running game. Until it isn't.
I wouldn't ride him to this extent. Great values are to be found in RBs because the position is undervalued. I'd get a tough physical runner or two and build the line.
If they are going to continue on this year's path, they need to build the line and get more receivers.
In any case, build the line.
I wouldn't ride him to this extent. Great values are to be found in RBs because the position is undervalued. I'd get a tough physical runner or two and build the line.
If they are going to continue on this year's path, they need to build the line and get more receivers.
In any case, build the line.
The number one reason for the seemingly poor performance is the small sample size combined with a selective narrative. Their road results since 2005 are not predictive of anything nor something that is addressed via roster construction. Consider:
2006: Denver was a superior team by a fairly wide margin. The Pats that season had already lost to Denver once, and got their helmets handed to them by the league's better teams that season in losses to San Diego and Indy and KC. The only player left from that team still on the roster is the starting QB.
2007: Yes, Shank and Mazz call that win in San Diego some kind of fluke, lucky win, etc. But Brady was throwing to Jabar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell that season. And why a anyone would casually dismiss a road win against the league's top seed that season is beyond me. Yes, it would have been nice to have beaten Indy. But, if you're going to say that they almost lost to the Chargers, then you need to similarly claim that they almost beat Indy.
2013: As you noted earlier, the Pats had no healthy players.
This is not directed to you or your post necessarily. It's directed to the general argument that the Patriots have not been a good road playoff team (which is something that I've seen argued both in the media and among a handful random posts on this forum). While technically correct, it's also a misleading statement due to the lack of important and necessary context.
Gronk looks to be wide open on the 2 pointer. If Brady throws that ball going right a bit more there is no one in site of Gronk.