The Game Goat Thread: Wk 17 @ Miami

[BaseballJones]

Count me among the people who sat there for three hours wondering WTF is going on here. This team has been very bad for 6 games now, going 2-4 against less than stellar competition. I mean, they have lost to the Broncos and Jets on the road (close games, both understandable), but also to Philly and Miami, both of whom are just godawful.

It hardly inspires confidence heading into the postseason.

Then again, it's almost certain that they'll get back Edelman and Vollmer, have a healthy Amendola, LaFell, and Chandler, on offense. And on defense, Jones and Hightower will be back, and Chung and McCourty will be healthier.

Those additions - all to key guys - should make a world of difference. They won't be playing to protect anyone. They'll be all out. Steven Jackson looked ok today - useful, anyway. Good to get him involved.

I think the Pats in 2 weeks will look significantly different than the Pats we've seen the last six weeks. And that's a good thing because the Pats of the last six weeks would get blown out by Pittsburgh or KC.

I'm so not thinking about the AFCCG right now. Just grateful for no more injuries. Get everyone healthy for two weeks and let's fire away in the divisional round.

 

[BaseballJones]

Count me among the people who sat there for three hours wondering WTF is going on here. This team has been very bad for 6 games now, going 2-4 against less than stellar competition. I mean, they have lost to the Broncos and Jets on the road (close games, both understandable), but also to Philly and Miami, both of whom are just godawful.

It hardly inspires confidence heading into the postseason.

Then again, it's almost certain that they'll get back Edelman and Vollmer, have a healthy Amendola, LaFell, and Chandler, on offense. And on defense, Jones and Hightower will be back, and Chung and McCourty will be healthier.

Those additions - all to key guys - should make a world of difference. They won't be playing to protect anyone. They'll be all out. Steven Jackson looked ok today - useful, anyway. Good to get him involved.

I think the Pats in 2 weeks will look significantly different than the Pats we've seen the last six weeks. And that's a good thing because the Pats of the last six weeks would get blown out by Pittsburgh or KC.

I'm so not thinking about the AFCCG right now. Just grateful for no more injuries. Get everyone healthy for two weeks and let's fire away in the divisional round.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

I disagree. If they had the luxury to sit them today great. But with all of the injuries(40 or so healthy players) they had to play. If there was nothing to play for then by all means but they had a shot to get 1 seed and would've been disservice to completely punt the game.

You're mixing two different arguments. If they wanted to try to win the game then play Brady and try to win. But what some of us have said is if they were not really trying to win then Brady (at least) should have been much more limited, or not played at all. If Brady was the backup and Jimmy G played most of the game it would have had zero impact on the other guys who had to play.

Edit: you're not your

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

No big injuries. There's something positive.

Otherwise, NE drops a critical game to a 5-10 Dolphins team.]!

There was nothing critical about today's game. The only way the loss has any consequences is if the Broncos win their next 3 games, and the Patriots win their next two. The Patriots have gone 2-4 in their last 6, and the Broncos 4-2 - there's a significant chance that neither one of them makes the AFC Championship game, let alone both.


If you think you can minimize injuries by punting the game, you do that

 

[RedOctober3829]

You're mixing two different arguments. If they wanted to try to win the game then play Brady and try to win. But what some of us have said is if they were not really trying to win then Brady (at least) should have been much more limited, or not played at all. If Brady was the backup and Jimmy G played most of the game it would have had zero impact on the other guys who had to play.

Edit: you're not your

If it makes any sense they were trying to do both: get key players healthy while putting together a team still capable of winning. In my mind if the OL blocks better they would've won but they never gave Brady a chance in the pocket on a lot of throws.

I don't think playing Jimmy G was ever in the cards until the game was in doubt either way.

 

[Zincman]

Is it possible that the Solder injury was the most significant of all considering the domino effect it produced?

 

[Ralphwiggum]

If it makes any sense they were trying to do both: get key players healthy while putting together a team still capable of winning. In my mind if the OL blocks better they would've won but they never gave Brady a chance in the pocket on a lot of throws.

I don't think playing Jimmy G was ever in the cards until the game was in doubt either way.

Well, I agree with you that this is what they were doing, but that's essentially what people are questioning. If they had wanted to, though, they could have limited Brady a lot more than they did without much issue, particularly after he tweaked his ankle.

 

[Fishercat]

There was nothing critical about today's game. The only way the loss has any consequences is if the Broncos win their next 3 games, and the Patriots win their next two. The Patriots have gone 2-4 in their last 6, and the Broncos 4-2 - there's a significant chance that neither one of them makes the AFC Championship game, let alone both.


If you think you can minimize injuries by punting the game, you do that

Denver would only have to win their next two games, and the one happening right now is against a pretty hamstrung San Diego team, while the one after it could be the Texans (if all the high seeds win out).

I get the point being made, but the whole discussion is moot if the Patriots lose anyway, so I think we can take that qualifier out. I don't feel like the difference between a 1 and 2 seed is that dramatic this year, since the 2 seed has the bonus of potentially avoiding the Steelers until the AFCC, but there's a real value to not having to travel across country to play in a very tough home environment.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

If pats get the #2 seed they face EITHER Pitt or Denver, but not both. And if it's Pitt, we essentially have HFA throughout.

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

Is it possible that the Solder injury was the most significant of all considering the domino effect it produced?

I don't think so.


The offense was still one of the best in the league for a long while after Solder went down - they were playing musical chairs on the offensive line, and they were still effective. Edelman going down is where the offence took a dump.

The line has been bad all year, but prior to Edelman getting hurt, Brady was averaging getting the ball out in something like 2.1 seconds after the snap - since Edelman got hurt, it's been above 3.0 seconds. He's getting killed now because nobody is getting open.

 

[genoasalami]

No injuries = a win in my book.

Brady needed to brace himself on a wall as he left his presser. If his ankle is sore now, imagine it tomorrow morning. May not be a big issue in two weeks....we will see....

 

[Oppo]

This team will go down as one that peaked too early. Mid season champions, 0-1 in the playoffs.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

This team will go down as one that peaked too early. Mid season champions, 0-1 in the playoffs.

Care to expand on this prediction?

 

[tims4wins]

It wasnt a case of peaking early it was getting decimated by injuries and adapting as best they could. I expect a great offensive performance in two weeks.

 

[H78]

It wasnt a case of peaking early it was getting decimated by injuries and adapting as best they could. I expect a great offensive performance in two weeks.

Same.

And our defense will basically be at full strength - and rested - as well. When was the last time we fielded our entire defense, healthy?

Collins, Hightower, Jones, Sheard, McCourty, and Chung all on the field together is going to make a world of difference.

 

[DJnVa]

Care to expand on this prediction?

It's this year's equivalent of the dude that posted last year that Brady and BB were no longer good enough.

 

[BernieRicoBoomer]

 

[dcmissle]

Same.

And our defense will basically be at full strength - and rested - as well. When was the last time we fielded our entire defense, healthy?

Collins, Hightower, Jones, Sheard, McCourty, and Chung all on the field together is going to make a world of difference.

This I feel I can count on more than the offense. I have no clue how Edelman's foot is going to feel and how much rust he has to scrape off.

"Next man up" is aspirational. It is a pretty shitty description of reality. You hear all the time from outsiders -- not here and not in Boston so much -- "as long as they have BB and TB, they will be ok."

Well fuck no -- unless you assume they deliberately posted a 2 and 4 record the last 6 weeks.

 

[brandonchristensen]

Just annoyed that we only had to win once after Oakland beat the Broncos.

 

[Oppo]

The coaching.

You play this like a playoff game, but sit the guys actually injured. Win and get the team back on track.
BB failed today. He gets credit for all the well deserved genius moves but is protected from his mistakes. This team loses their next time out.

 

[Jettisoned]

If only Bill had mumbled something to Cannon and Fleming about the playoffs and blocking before the game, they would have played better.

 

[Oppo]

Care to expand on this prediction?

They're 2-4 in their last 6. Losing to 3 non-playoff teams and a game they should have won. They are underdogs or pickem against den, cin, kc, pit, car, arz, sea, and gb

 

[DJnVa]

They're 2-4 in their last 6. Losing to 3 non-playoff teams and a game they should have won. They are underdogs or pickem against den, cin, kc, pit, car, arz, sea, and gb

Can we bet?

I will take the Pats and points in 2 weeks if they play Cincy or KC.

Are you in?

 

[riboflav]

I like KC's chances in Denver more than Pitt's. Pitt hasn't been too impressive last few weeks.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

They're 2-4 in their last 6. Losing to 3 non-playoff teams and a game they should have won. They are underdogs or pickem against den, cin, kc, pit, car, arz, sea, and gb

LOL. Big gambler, are you?

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

They're 2-4 in their last 6. Losing to 3 non-playoff teams and a game they should have won. They are underdogs or pickem against den, cin, kc, pit, car, arz, sea, and gb

You might want to take a walk or something. You seem upset.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Honestly, I don't know that I would pick the Pats against KC or Cincy with a healthy Dalton at home right now. I'm at the point where I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop 40 or 10. I like to think they'll be able to just click it back on, but the OL issues are real and probably not going away and the unit has been quite bad for about six weeks.

I'm also not convinced we are out of the water on an impactful injury to Brady. He plays through everything--the 2007 broken foot comes to mind--and I wouldn't be shocked if he has a bad sprain or hairline fracture that won't heal until the offseason. It's astounding to me that the coaches left him out there after that.

 

[Oppo]

Can we bet?

I will take the Pats and points in 2 weeks if they play Cincy or KC.

Are you in?

Yes, I'm in

 

[DJnVa]

Yes, I'm in

Okay, set the lines.

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

Once the dirtiest player in the NFL (Suh) rolled up on Brady's ankle I would have played Jimmy G to play it safe.

 

[nazz45]

My goat is basically everyone involved on this running play with a particular shoutout to the interior offensive line. Oh, this stretch play as well complete with some spectacular backside cut blocks.

Mike Williams has been an unheralded and unforeseen contributor this year but has struggled lately as a blocker. And since he offers virtually no threat as a route runner / pass catcher, he limits the offense. It'd be nice if Scott Chandler were still alive. What a dud.

Josh Kline had been their most consistent lineman, had a couple tough games, got injured and still looks injured. Tre Jackson continues to pull block on power runs with the speed of a snail. Mason may be their best pure run blocker but his inconsistencies in pass pro have him as the low man in the guard rotation.

It may be too late to do this now, but surprised they haven't experimented with Stork at guard and Andrews at center a little. While Andrews doesn't have the physical traits of Mason or Jackson, he is more fundamentally sound in his technique and showed a better understanding of identifying assignments and working combo blocks. Then the second Buffalo game happened.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

CIN/KC could be dangerous but Lewis / Reid coached teams won't be favored at Foxboro

 

[Hobson's Choice]

82 posts and no-one gets it. They tanked, and here's why. I fully expect this to be a story tomorrow, about how the Patriots tanked.

The objective is to avoid Pittsburgh. They're the lowest seed, but they also are opening at -2.5 vs Bengals.

So, scenario 1. Steelers lose @ Bengals. Great, no harm done and no reason to "tank." Bengals @ NE

Scenario 2. Steelers win @ Bengals, and now travel to Denver. This is the spot the Patriots would be in, had they won vs. Miami. Instead, why not wait a week and let these two slug it out for a few hours? Instead, we await the winner of Chiefs/Texans.

I'm NOT denigrating any of Bengals, Texans or Chiefs, but getting the Steelers and Broncos into a knockout match is the best possible thing that the Patriots could do, and it was only possible by losing.

 

[nattysez]

The past two games reminded me of that end-of-first-half possession earlier this year where they couldn't decide to run the clock out or play hard and wound up having to punt. They tried to play things both ways by being super-conservative with their injured guys while still trying to win and wound up with two losses and Brady hurt. In BB I trust, but I haven't been this perplexed by a coaching decision of his in some time.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

My goat is basically everyone involved on this running play with a particular shoutout to the interior offensive line. Oh, this stretch play as well complete with some spectacular backside cut blocks.

Mike Williams has been an unheralded and unforeseen contributor this year but has struggled lately as a blocker. And since he offers virtually no threat as a route runner / pass catcher, he limits the offense. It'd be nice if Scott Chandler were still alive. What a dud.

Josh Kline had been their most consistent lineman, had a couple tough games, got injured and still looks injured. Tre Jackson continues to pull block on power runs with the speed of a snail. Mason may be their best pure run blocker but his inconsistencies in pass pro have him as the low man in the guard rotation.

It may be too late to do this now, but surprised they haven't experimented with Stork at guard and Andrews at center a little. While Andrews doesn't have the physical traits of Mason or Jackson, he is more fundamentally sound in his technique and showed a better understanding of identifying assignments and working combo blocks. Then the second Buffalo game happened.

Terrific post, nazz. Stork & Andrews played together for a bit, no? Even for DeGugliermo, trying to work essentially 3 rookies in the middle of the OL turned out to be a monumental task.

 

[Rudy's Curve]

82 posts and no-one gets it. They tanked, and here's why. I fully expect this to be a story tomorrow, about how the Patriots tanked.

The objective is to avoid Pittsburgh. They're the lowest seed, but they also are opening at -2.5 vs Bengals.

So, scenario 1. Steelers lose @ Bengals. Great, no harm done and no reason to "tank." Bengals @ NE

Scenario 2. Steelers win @ Bengals, and now travel to Denver. This is the spot the Patriots would be in, had they won vs. Miami. Instead, why not wait a week and let these two slug it out for a few hours? Instead, we await the winner of Chiefs/Texans.

I'm NOT denigrating any of Bengals, Texans or Chiefs, but getting the Steelers and Broncos into a knockout match is the best possible thing that the Patriots could do, and it was only possible by losing.

Yes, the Patriots tanked to avoid a team that needed help to get in whose defense they torch almost every time, all while losing HFA in a possible AFCCG. And if they host the AFCCG in your scenario, OMG they'd have to play Pittsburgh! Why even show up?

I knew the Steelers were the '85 Bears. I didn't know they were the '89 Niners, '91 Redskins and '07 Pats too.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

82 posts and no-one gets it. They tanked, and here's why. I fully expect this to be a story tomorrow, about how the Patriots tanked.

You left out the part where BB did it so that Josh McDaniels would be less valuable as a HC due to them playing like crap for 2 weeks on offense! It's all part of the master plan.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Yeah, the Pats didn't "tank". They went super conservative after losing a bunch of starters, deciding that they'd rather be as healthy as possible in the 2 seed than the 1 seed with a bunch of key guys out. And I think it's a worthwhile gamble. The only way this scenario even becomes relevant is if both the Pats and Broncos win their Divisional Round games, which is far from a certainty. And if they do, well, they have to play a team that they should have beaten while short-handed.

 

[bsj]

Yeah, the Pats didn't "tank". They went super conservative after losing a bunch of starters, deciding that they'd rather be as healthy as possible in the 2 seed than the 1 seed with a bunch of key guys out. And I think it's a worthwhile gamble. The only way this scenario even becomes relevant is if both the Pats and Broncos win their Divisional Round games, which is far from a certainty. And if they do, well, they have to play a team that they should have beaten while short-handed.

Then Brady and Gronk should have been on the bench, not on the field to have an ankle clipped by one of the dirtiest defensive linemen in the NFL.

Roll over or go for it. Fine either way. Not the middle ground they took.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Then Brady and Gronk should have been on the bench, not on the field to have an ankle clipped by one of the dirtiest defensive linemen in the NFL.

Roll over or go for it. Fine either way. Not the middle ground they took.

That I agree with. Didn't make much sense to me to have key players out there on offense if the plan was not to be very aggressive. Only thing I can think of was Belichick wanting Brady to get more practice with the line, which was nearly a disaster.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

82 posts and no-one gets it. They tanked, and here's why. I fully expect this to be a story tomorrow, about how the Patriots tanked.

Tanking would have been fine. But what they actually did was tank the first half, then let Miami's defense beat the ever loving shit out of an already injured Tom Brady in the second half. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

 

[sodenj5]

Then Brady and Gronk should have been on the bench, not on the field to have an ankle clipped by one of the dirtiest defensive linemen in the NFL.

Roll over or go for it. Fine either way. Not the middle ground they took.

Are you taking the stand that Suh's hit was dirty? Because the Patriot's lineman blocking Suh actually drew a flag for illegal use of hands on that play. Not Suh.

 

[AB in DC]

The talk show mentality here is getting kind of tiresome.

The problem yesterday is really simple. The team that suited up -- particularly on offense -- was a bad team. Period. Don't scapegoat Belichick because he had nothing to work with yesterday. The offense is missing its two best linemen (Solder, Vollmer), its two best RBs (Lewis, Blount) and basically its two best WRs (Edelman of course, and Amedola played but was not close to healthy) then yesterday shouldn't have been a surprise. At least 25 other QBs yesterday had a better supporting cast than Brady. What exactly did yall expect?

In other words, the Patriots didn't tank the game yesterday. They really were that bad. It's frankly delusional to believe otherwise. You can complain all you want about a conservative game plan in the first half, but the team couldn't move the ball in the second half, either, except for one good swing pass to White. But there was no way that yesterday's offense was going to score a lot of points.

 

[dcmissle]

The talk show mentality here is getting kind of tiresome.

The problem yesterday is really simple. The team that suited up -- particularly on offense -- was a bad team. Period. Don't scapegoat Belichick because he had nothing to work with yesterday. The offense is missing its two best linemen (Solder, Vollmer), its two best RBs (Lewis, Blount) and basically its two best WRs (Edelman of course, and Amedola played but was not close to healthy) then yesterday shouldn't have been a surprise. At least 25 other QBs yesterday had a better supporting cast than Brady. What exactly did yall expect?

In other words, the Patriots didn't tank the game yesterday. They really were that bad. It's frankly delusional to believe otherwise. You can complain all you want about a conservative game plan in the first half, but the team couldn't move the ball in the second half, either, except for one good swing pass to White. But there was no way that yesterday's offense was going to score a lot of points.

+1 in terms of what they have been the past few weeks. And how they perform going forward depends very much on the health of the absentees and how much rust needs to get knocked off.

And there is a pretty broad spectrum of reasonable feeling about this, cause we have no way of knowing. Nor do we know, or are we likely to know, the extent to which Brady was hurt yesterday. No boot is nice, but beyond that ..?

 

[DJnVa]

Yes, the Patriots tanked to avoid a team that needed help to get in whose defense they torch almost every time, all while losing HFA in a possible AFCCG. And if they host the AFCCG in your scenario, OMG they'd have to play Pittsburgh! Why even show up?.

I don't think they tanked, but I *think* his point is more that we now avoid playing both Pittsburgh and Denver, not that they can't beat either one.

 

[Rudy's Curve]

I don't think they tanked, but I *think* his point is more that we now avoid playing both Pittsburgh and Denver, not that they can't beat either one.

I guess, but if you'd rather have the Pats' current road than facing Pittsburgh and Denver at home, you're beyond delusional.

 

[DJnVa]

Is this where someone breaks out the percentages?

If we're 70% to win at home against, say Cincy, then 40% on the road versus Denver that's what 28%?

Compared to 70% and 65% or something against Pitt and Denver at home and that's 45.5%.

 

[bakahump]

I think they tried to punt the game......found themselves down by 7 at the half....immediately tied it up at 10....thought "Damn we are tied after playing with a pee wee playbook lets win this thing" and continued to run the PeeWee stuff.
It was about halfway thru the 4th that Miami scored (17-10). BB gave the offense one more shot (and got TB blown up a couple times in the process) then punted away. Miami scored a FG and it was JG time.

The problem was that BB was happy to lose and take the 2nd seed if thats what was to come.....then in the heat of the moment thought they could steal the #1 seed. Kinda un-belicheckian in that he deviated from the plan.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

Then Brady and Gronk should have been on the bench, not on the field to have an ankle clipped by one of the dirtiest defensive linemen in the NFL.

Roll over or go for it. Fine either way. Not the middle ground they took.

This, this, this - times ten.

 

[Captaincoop]

It is preposterous to think that Belichick tanked to avoid the Pittsburgh Steelers.

When remotely healthy, the Patriots are favorites over everyone in the conference. There is no way they willingly give up home field advantage because they fear playing a 10-6 team that they already beat.

We should probably face reality - this team, as constituted today, is bad enough to lose to any team in the NFL. Let's hope the team they put on the field in two weeks is something significantly different.