The Game Goat Thread: Wk.4 @ KC
- Thread starter SeoulSoxFan
- Start date
Didn't like it. Part of the problem was Corrente was using an electronic whistle, which nobody can hear. Also CBS for whatever reason didn't show the announcement he made afterwards explaining the call.
Belichick has said similar. Guys with ball skills who can run are skill players. Players who can run and don't have ball skills play defense. Players who can't run and don't have ball skills play offensive line. He then went on to point out that he was in that last group as a young player.
The Stidham pick-6 meant for Edelman – he clearly took that play off and was stunned by the INT and runback. It was shocking to watch it in real time, and if Edelman wasn't the player he's been with the career he's had, he'd have been benched and likely doghoused beyond this week by Belichick.
Stidham's forcing throws as a young quarterback when the team was behind and fighting the clock is baked into the young QB (in)experience. But Hoyer and Edelman's missteps were harder to forgive from two BB veteran system guys.
Here's the OOB tackle on Harris where the flag for UN was picked up. FAR more egregious than Mahomes slipping. No penalty.
Ridiculous.
View: https://twitter.com/FTBeard1/status/1313316124717539328?s=20
Ridiculous.
View: https://twitter.com/FTBeard1/status/1313316124717539328?s=20
Worse than I remember it. Pretty close to a horsecollar, in addition to a late hit.
Someone upthread mentioned JC Jackson? The guy might be the best DB in football and basically didn't allow a completed pass against the Chiefs...unreal.
The GOAT is clearly Hoyer, as he was simply asked to make the easy throws (failed) and make veteran decisions (failed miserably). As far as JE, he looks done. Early in 3rd he caught a pass up the seam and had space to run, perhaps for another 10 or 15 yards and he hit the dirt...i am not sure I have ever seen that...3 drops yesterday and reminds one of Wes...really rough given all he has done, but 34 is 34.
The GOAT is clearly Hoyer, as he was simply asked to make the easy throws (failed) and make veteran decisions (failed miserably). As far as JE, he looks done. Early in 3rd he caught a pass up the seam and had space to run, perhaps for another 10 or 15 yards and he hit the dirt...i am not sure I have ever seen that...3 drops yesterday and reminds one of Wes...really rough given all he has done, but 34 is 34.
Jackson dropped the INT that may have not been as simple as it looked at first. he also misplayed a run by CEH later in the game. Helaire was being strung outside and Jackson tried to cut Kelce (it worked) but it opened a lane for Helaire to cut back inside and pick up a first down. If Jackson had held his ground, Helaire would have been pinched onto the sidelines. Not a major miscue but it was a bad decision.
He seems to flop near the sideline. He did it on the DMC play where DMC sort of grabbed him and he just jumped backwards and yelled, "C'mon, man!". It worked on the Wise sideline play where even though Wise had him from behind, he flopped forward (or maybe tripped) and drew the flag. He seems to try to step out just as the defender is making contact and then act like the hit is a lot worse than it really was. But you're right, he's going to get blown up one of these times.
I would have thrown the red flag and when the ref came over screamed like a banshee. But it's the Patriots so we would've been docked a draft pick for violating COVID protocols or some such.
Eh. The had no in-person practices after the switch was made. I completely get why he went with Hoyer.
I don't see how anybody puts this one on BB at all. Hoyer emerged from camp ahead of Stidham, they had to make a very last minute change, on the fly, with no physical practice time. It was absolutely reasonable for him to go with the guy who was no. 2 on the depth chart. Hoyer was horrendous, Bill made the correct in-game change. If he goes back to Hoyer again this week(assuming Cam is still out), then I think he's wide open for scrutiny and criticism. But not for last night.
With form like that, some of those people could have been Red Sox pitchers this season.
Also, shout out to the pass rushers, especially Wise and Winovich, who got pressure all night while frequently being doubled team and making the defensive game plan work. They would have been the MVP of the game if the Pats managed to score the upset.
Finally watching the full game....
- 1st possession for KC...easy, and I mean EASY, interception dropped by McCourty. Holy smokes Devin. They don't get easier than that.
- 1st possession for NE...Hoyer misses a wide open Izzo for what would have been a 20+ yard gain.
- 2nd possession for KC...good defense by Jones on Hill on a deep ball on 3rd down.
- 2nd possession for NE...nice block by Hoyer on the Zuber reverse! Then Hoyer misses an open Byrd on a sideline pattern on 3rd down. Ugh.
- 3rd possession for KC...had them backed up to their 2 yard line, and four plays later they're down to NE's 26 yard line. So explosive. And there's the McCourty "come on man" play. Mahomes totally is playing that game. Tiptoeing along the sideline for as long as he can, and then just as he's about to be hit, steps out, hoping to pick up a cheap penalty. Gamesmanship, and pretty smart. I don't like it though.
- 3rd possession by NE...omg what a TERRIBLE throw by Hoyer for the INT. Izzo was double-covered, and Hoyer threw it to him anyway, only to air mail him for an easy interception. Egads.
- 4th possession for KC...NE defense in a very tough spot at this point. Great play by Gilmore to punch the ball out. Laughing at the ref yelling "WHITE! WHITE! WHITE!" with his mask down, screaming at a pile of people. I mean...what is the point of these guys wearing masks if they're going to be screaming in the faces of the players like that?
- 4th possession for NE...can't get enough of screens to White. Guy is so good. Another bad throw by Hoyer to a totally-covered Byrd. And now the Edelman tip to Gunner pass. Good throw by Hoyer under pressure, right on the money to Jules. The tip...not good. Lucky bounce. And now the Mathieu throw down of Harris out of bounds. Well out of bounds, and Mathieu rips him to the ground. Flag comes in...then they pick it up. Unbelievable. Nice run by Rex. He's a good player. Man, Onwenu just blew out TWO guys on that run. Now two more bad passes by Hoyer.
- 5th possession for KC...good lick by Jones on a pass to the right sideline. And now the ridiculous sack, no fumble call by the refs. Great play by Winovich. Wow, even Romo was like, WTF. The whistle came like two full seconds after the Patriots had the ball. Just utterly inexcusable. NE would have had the ball at the KC 35 at a minimum. Nantz saying that BB "didn't realize it was an incomplete pass himself!" Uh, no, Jim, it wasn't an incomplete pass. It was either a fumble or interception. But no, it was only a sack because...refball.
- 5th possession for NE...nice catch and run by Harry, shedding a tackler for a first down. Nice throw on 3rd down by Hoyer to Harry. Another nice ball to White, who's so good. And now...OMG the Hoyer sack to end the half. Holy crap that was UNBELIEVABLY bad.
- 6th possession for NE...Harris running hard out of the locker room to start the half. Wow the punt goes through the guy's legs...so lucky by KC.
- 6th possession for KC...excellent defense by NE on this drive.
- 7th possession for NE...Hoyer hits Rex for four...he was wide open and Hoyer threw it so poorly that Burkhead had to dive for it. Nice scramble by Hoyer for the first down. Nice third down play to Edelman...good throw. Another nice throw to Edelman down the seam for big yardage. Not sure why Jules just hit the deck after making the catch. He could have picked up a few more yards there. WOW...Hoyer to Byrd...threading the needle, nearly picked. And now...ugh the Hoyer fumble. Holy crap again, holding the ball a LONG time. Disaster again.
- 7th possession for KC...huge play to Kelce, and a nice score by Hill getting to the edge.
- 8th possession for NE...Stidham is in! Harris with good burst. And then Harris' huge run...why did he run out of bounds? He could have had a few more. Glad for the KC penalty on Mathieu, though if Stidham had thrown it more to the middle of the field, it could have been a TD anyway. Beautiful TD to Harry. Great throw, great catch. Perfect.
- 8th possession for KC...ugh the D plays the first two downs perfectly and then the tacky-tack (but correct) DPI call on Dugger wiping out a 3-and-out, which would have been huge for NE. And now the Mahomes flop on the sideline after Wise touched him after Mahomes ran OOB. Particularly galling considering the non-call on Mathieu in a similar situation earlier in the game. Oh man and now JC Jackson had another pick right in his hands and couldn't come up with it. Another short (really short) pass for a TD. Ugh. The Pats had two chances to stop them, KC got two big penalty helps, and NE's dropped INT. Brutal.
- 9th possession for NE...holy crap right through Edelman's hands into Mathieu's for the pick-six. Absolutely brutal sequence right there. A few minutes earlier, NE cut the lead to three and got a quick three-and-out but no, the penalty. Then the dropped pick. And now a pick-six. Holy smokes. Not good.
And I'll stop there because that was the game. New England absolutely had their chance in this game to win it or at least be right there in the end. Some terrible plays (bad plays by Hoyer, plus the dropped INTs by both Jackson and McCourty). Bad officiating really cost NE on a few occasions. But there's lots of positives there too. A loss, and a frustrating one, but given everything they went through the past few days, decimated O-line, backup QB, playing 3 hours after their flight landed, staying right with KC...lots of good stuff to build on.
Beat Denver, get healthy during the bye, and come out smoking after that. This team is a 10-win team, IMO.
- 1st possession for KC...easy, and I mean EASY, interception dropped by McCourty. Holy smokes Devin. They don't get easier than that.
- 1st possession for NE...Hoyer misses a wide open Izzo for what would have been a 20+ yard gain.
- 2nd possession for KC...good defense by Jones on Hill on a deep ball on 3rd down.
- 2nd possession for NE...nice block by Hoyer on the Zuber reverse! Then Hoyer misses an open Byrd on a sideline pattern on 3rd down. Ugh.
- 3rd possession for KC...had them backed up to their 2 yard line, and four plays later they're down to NE's 26 yard line. So explosive. And there's the McCourty "come on man" play. Mahomes totally is playing that game. Tiptoeing along the sideline for as long as he can, and then just as he's about to be hit, steps out, hoping to pick up a cheap penalty. Gamesmanship, and pretty smart. I don't like it though.
- 3rd possession by NE...omg what a TERRIBLE throw by Hoyer for the INT. Izzo was double-covered, and Hoyer threw it to him anyway, only to air mail him for an easy interception. Egads.
- 4th possession for KC...NE defense in a very tough spot at this point. Great play by Gilmore to punch the ball out. Laughing at the ref yelling "WHITE! WHITE! WHITE!" with his mask down, screaming at a pile of people. I mean...what is the point of these guys wearing masks if they're going to be screaming in the faces of the players like that?
- 4th possession for NE...can't get enough of screens to White. Guy is so good. Another bad throw by Hoyer to a totally-covered Byrd. And now the Edelman tip to Gunner pass. Good throw by Hoyer under pressure, right on the money to Jules. The tip...not good. Lucky bounce. And now the Mathieu throw down of Harris out of bounds. Well out of bounds, and Mathieu rips him to the ground. Flag comes in...then they pick it up. Unbelievable. Nice run by Rex. He's a good player. Man, Onwenu just blew out TWO guys on that run. Now two more bad passes by Hoyer.
- 5th possession for KC...good lick by Jones on a pass to the right sideline. And now the ridiculous sack, no fumble call by the refs. Great play by Winovich. Wow, even Romo was like, WTF. The whistle came like two full seconds after the Patriots had the ball. Just utterly inexcusable. NE would have had the ball at the KC 35 at a minimum. Nantz saying that BB "didn't realize it was an incomplete pass himself!" Uh, no, Jim, it wasn't an incomplete pass. It was either a fumble or interception. But no, it was only a sack because...refball.
- 5th possession for NE...nice catch and run by Harry, shedding a tackler for a first down. Nice throw on 3rd down by Hoyer to Harry. Another nice ball to White, who's so good. And now...OMG the Hoyer sack to end the half. Holy crap that was UNBELIEVABLY bad.
- 6th possession for NE...Harris running hard out of the locker room to start the half. Wow the punt goes through the guy's legs...so lucky by KC.
- 6th possession for KC...excellent defense by NE on this drive.
- 7th possession for NE...Hoyer hits Rex for four...he was wide open and Hoyer threw it so poorly that Burkhead had to dive for it. Nice scramble by Hoyer for the first down. Nice third down play to Edelman...good throw. Another nice throw to Edelman down the seam for big yardage. Not sure why Jules just hit the deck after making the catch. He could have picked up a few more yards there. WOW...Hoyer to Byrd...threading the needle, nearly picked. And now...ugh the Hoyer fumble. Holy crap again, holding the ball a LONG time. Disaster again.
- 7th possession for KC...huge play to Kelce, and a nice score by Hill getting to the edge.
- 8th possession for NE...Stidham is in! Harris with good burst. And then Harris' huge run...why did he run out of bounds? He could have had a few more. Glad for the KC penalty on Mathieu, though if Stidham had thrown it more to the middle of the field, it could have been a TD anyway. Beautiful TD to Harry. Great throw, great catch. Perfect.
- 8th possession for KC...ugh the D plays the first two downs perfectly and then the tacky-tack (but correct) DPI call on Dugger wiping out a 3-and-out, which would have been huge for NE. And now the Mahomes flop on the sideline after Wise touched him after Mahomes ran OOB. Particularly galling considering the non-call on Mathieu in a similar situation earlier in the game. Oh man and now JC Jackson had another pick right in his hands and couldn't come up with it. Another short (really short) pass for a TD. Ugh. The Pats had two chances to stop them, KC got two big penalty helps, and NE's dropped INT. Brutal.
- 9th possession for NE...holy crap right through Edelman's hands into Mathieu's for the pick-six. Absolutely brutal sequence right there. A few minutes earlier, NE cut the lead to three and got a quick three-and-out but no, the penalty. Then the dropped pick. And now a pick-six. Holy smokes. Not good.
And I'll stop there because that was the game. New England absolutely had their chance in this game to win it or at least be right there in the end. Some terrible plays (bad plays by Hoyer, plus the dropped INTs by both Jackson and McCourty). Bad officiating really cost NE on a few occasions. But there's lots of positives there too. A loss, and a frustrating one, but given everything they went through the past few days, decimated O-line, backup QB, playing 3 hours after their flight landed, staying right with KC...lots of good stuff to build on.
Beat Denver, get healthy during the bye, and come out smoking after that. This team is a 10-win team, IMO.
Same here. And physically, he got what he probably expected out of Hoyer. I think he was as surprised as anyone at the 2 room-clearing, crop-dusting brain farts.
Calhoun has it at the 0:06 mark. The whistle doesn't sound until a tick before 0:09. So nearly THREE full seconds after the ball is in Calhoun's hands. An eternity in real game time.
That's why it appeared initially that the real dispute was over whether Calhoun was downed by contact.
Here is Jeff Howe's updated disruptions through 4 games. Wise is 2nd on the team with 13.5.
View: https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/1313522975203889153
They are using some weird electronic whistle plus delay in getting real whistle past mask.
the whistle is a red herring.
The real issue is the insane inconsistency of “in grasp and control”. Mahomes should have more sacks. Zebra accounts are all using the Watson lost a TD week 1 last year cause of this same call. It ignores that it is the exception to the rule.
Way too often the QB is allowed to get away or make a play when they should be called down the way people are arguing this is the right call.
the whistle is a red herring.
The real issue is the insane inconsistency of “in grasp and control”. Mahomes should have more sacks. Zebra accounts are all using the Watson lost a TD week 1 last year cause of this same call. It ignores that it is the exception to the rule.
Way too often the QB is allowed to get away or make a play when they should be called down the way people are arguing this is the right call.
Right, agreed. Belichick said in the halftime interview that he knew he couldn't challenge it because it was ruled in the grasp or stopped forward progress or whatever it was they made up. Seemed like he knew what the call was. But initially it seemed obvious to everyone that it was a fumble/interception and New England's ball, but that somehow they thought Calhoun was down.
Lame to "credit" Herron with a strip sack. That was caused by Hoyer holding onto the ball WAY too long.
And sometimes QBs help out OL by getting the ball out quicker after a whiffed block attempt. It happens.
A bunch of really good Mahomes flopping memes here:
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/10/chiefs-patriots-patrick-mahomes-flops-sideline
One of my faves:
View: https://twitter.com/KyriesIntellect/status/1313288594161913856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1313288594161913856%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fftw.usatoday.com%2F2020%2F10%2Fchiefs-patriots-patrick-mahomes-flops-sideline
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/10/chiefs-patriots-patrick-mahomes-flops-sideline
One of my faves:
View: https://twitter.com/KyriesIntellect/status/1313288594161913856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1313288594161913856%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fftw.usatoday.com%2F2020%2F10%2Fchiefs-patriots-patrick-mahomes-flops-sideline
Refs simply need to call these properly. If they don't address it, you'll have lots more guys doing it. Mahomes is a star and the face of the league so I would prefer he not engage in this type of stuff but, on the other hand, if the refs are going to give you 15 free yards 50% of the time, then why not?
NFL needs to stop this before it turns into a larger problem.
It should be a penalty if you get hit when you're clearly out of bounds. If you're moving out of bounds, but aren't yet, it shouldn't be a penalty. Nor should it be if the QB is playing footsie with the line, trying to bait you into that penalty.
Nor should flopping be a penalty, I should have added.
And certainly a light touch on Mahomes shouldn't have been a penalty if Harris getting yanked down 5 yards out of bounds wasn't.
If only the dumb announcers could actually pay attention. He clearly marked Mahomes down and signaled 4th.
it's going to end up Mahomes getting hurt--it's like a ghost tag in baseball--it's bush league and players can get hurt--defenders don't want to hit opposing players late but I doubt they like to get baited either
Why not all an unsportsmanlike on Mahomes on the "come on man" play? He's going to get seriously hurt at some point if he's literally trying to draw the hit.