The Goat Returns: Pats vs. Bucs Buildup

[tims4wins]

Unfortunately we're probably going to be re-litigating TB12's departure all week. That said, I appreciate BB taking the high road this morning. His comments may or may not be 100% true, but it was the right thing to say IMO.

View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1442440846574505986



View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1442441792784318467



View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1442442615899627525

 

[RIrooter09]

I was planning to attend this one, but the drive home yesterday was a nightmare. I think I'll watch this loss from my couch instead.

 

[Bowhemian]

I was planning to attend this one, but the drive home yesterday was a nightmare. I think I'll watch this loss from my couch instead.

Boy you aren't kidding about the drive home. We hung out in the parking lot until 5:30. Got out of the lot onto Rt 1 in no time. Then it was stop and go all the way up Rt 1 to 95N, and even onto 93N. It basically didn't clear up until we were in Boston.

 

[axx]

Surprised the line isn't higher. It's only 6 right now.

 

[Norm Siebern]

Surprised the line isn't higher. It's only 6 right now.

Oh my. Considering home team gets 3 points to begin with, Vegas considers the Bucs only a 3 point favorite on a neutral field? Jump all over that. Lay the points and take the visitors. I fear this will be a blood bath.

 

[Matty005]

Oh my. Considering home team gets 3 points to begin with, Vegas considers the Bucs only a 3 point favorite on a neutral field? Jump all over that. Lay the points and take the visitors. I fear this will be a blood bath.

On a neutral site, wouldn't the Bucs be a 9 point favorite?

Edit: Maybe I don't understand. But no way would the Bucs be less of a favorite on a neutral site compared to a road game.

 

[WheresDewey]

After the NO game, they should be a 9 pt favorite at Foxboro.

 

[Norm Siebern]

On a neutral site, wouldn't the Bucs be a 9 point favorite?

Edit: Maybe I don't understand. But no way would the Bucs be less of a favorite on a neutral site compared to a road game.

Yes, you're right. Maths was never a strong point for me.

 

[soxhop411]

View: https://twitter.com/MarkDanielsPJ/status/1442471235707867137

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Not that I listen much anyway, but there is no chance I am risking turning on Felger and Mazz this week even for a second. This is like the reddest of red meat for Felger, and the miserable trolls who like that show will be out in full force.

 

[ifmanis5]

View: https://twitter.com/wbzsports/status/1442453247155793927

Bill Belichick Says He Never Wanted Tom Brady To Leave Patriots: 'We Weren't As Good An Option As Tampa'
View: https://twitter.com/NBCSBoston/status/1442473110259703808

Bill Belichick and @tomecurran have an exchange back and forth on Tom Brady...

 

[bagwell1]

Even with TB‘s secondary challenges, put me in the “it’s going to be ugly” camp, barring a healthy Turnover/Special Teams play margin for the Pats. But, I still have hope that Bill and the D can come up with something special. I like hope.

As someone whose interest in the NFL has dramatically waned the last few years ( for a multitude of reasons), I am really looking forward to the spectacle and the “Bill V Tom” aspect…yes, I know the other personnel/coaches dramatically affect things but I don’t care. I still love the thought of the match up.

While I know it creates interest/clicks/InstaFace whatever, personally, I could care less of the “break up talk” Except for finding it rather amusing. For me, this week will be about more celebration of what they accomplished together.(And neither could have done without the other in my opinion)I still find it surreal.

And thank you NFL for scheduling this game the week it was likely Tom was going to break the yardage record. It appears to be a lock barring an injury. The way Brady is Mr Commercial now, I wonder if he will go Full on Manning and stage a little football keep away game or something else with his receivers once he breaks it. Ugh. Even joking about it makes me a little queasy.

 

[rodderick]

Even with TB‘s secondary challenges, put me in the “it’s going to be ugly” camp, barring a healthy Turnover/Special Teams play margin for the Pats. But, I still have hope that Bill and the D can come up with something special. I like hope.

As someone whose interest in the NFL has dramatically waned the last few years ( for a multitude of reasons), I am really looking forward to the spectacle and the “Bill V Tom” aspect…yes, I know the other personnel/coaches dramatically affect things but I don’t care. I still love the thought of the match up.

While I know it creates interest/clicks/InstaFace whatever, personally, I could care less of the “break up talk” Except for finding it rather amusing. For me, this week will be about more celebration of what they accomplished together.(And neither could have done without the other in my opinion)I still find it surreal.

And thank you NFL for scheduling this game the week it was likely Tom was going to break the yardage record. It appears to be a lock barring an injury. The way Brady is Mr Commercial now, I wonder if he will go Full on Manning and stage a little football keep away game or something else with his receivers once he breaks it. Ugh. Even joking about it makes me a little queasy.

I'm pretty certain he won't do anything special. There was no ceremony when he broke the wins and TDs records and those are arguably more prestigious than the yardage record

 

[Matty005]

View: https://twitter.com/MarkDanielsPJ/status/1442471235707867137

I feel like this is such a bad take (by Daniels). I though BB gave a very good answer without being too indirect and without gushing too much. To make it seem like BB gave his robotic type answer is just wrong.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Even with TB‘s secondary challenges, put me in the “it’s going to be ugly” camp, barring a healthy Turnover/Special Teams play margin for the Pats. But, I still have hope that Bill and the D can come up with something special. I like hope.

As someone whose interest in the NFL has dramatically waned the last few years ( for a multitude of reasons), I am really looking forward to the spectacle and the “Bill V Tom” aspect…yes, I know the other personnel/coaches dramatically affect things but I don’t care. I still love the thought of the match up.

While I know it creates interest/clicks/InstaFace whatever, personally, I could care less of the “break up talk” Except for finding it rather amusing. For me, this week will be about more celebration of what they accomplished together.(And neither could have done without the other in my opinion)I still find it surreal.

And thank you NFL for scheduling this game the week it was likely Tom was going to break the yardage record. It appears to be a lock barring an injury. The way Brady is Mr Commercial now, I wonder if he will go Full on Manning and stage a little football keep away game or something else with his receivers once he breaks it. Ugh. Even joking about it makes me a little queasy.

In re the bolded, that would be nice, but the coverage is gonna crowd out that kind of narrative in a big way. There will be many hours of discussion re: who was more responsible for the team’s success (a question that neither has nor needs an answer), whether Bill wanted Tom gone or Tom wanted to leave (which is a false dilemma), among other debates.

Pats fans are the ones who get the short end of it this week, IMO.

 

[rodderick]

In re the bolded, that would be nice, but the coverage is gonna crowd out that kind of narrative in a big way. There will be many hours of discussion re: who was more responsible for the team’s success (a question that neither has nor needs an answer), whether Bill wanted Tom gone or Tom wanted to leave (which is a false dilemma), among other debates.

Pats fans are the ones who get the short end of it this week, IMO.

Yup. I'm thoroughly uninterested in the discourse and want the week to be over already.

 

[Van Everyman]

Can I be the first to say that I'm pretty happy TB lost this week? I get that Tampa is still a juggernaut and likely to stomp the Pats next week. But it's a bit comforting that Brady isn't going to destroy the Patriots on the road to 20-0.

 

[Captaincoop]

Yup. I'm thoroughly uninterested in the discourse and want the week to be over already.

I agree, and kind of want the game to be over as well. This Pats team has serious rebuilding work to do, it's not in showdown mode right now. I just want to get past this circus and keep chipping away at the stone, without having to listen to all the national media bullshit about Brady and Belichick and legacies and statements, blah blah blah. The broadcast is sure to be painful.

And I say that while also believing the Pats can show up and make a game of it, they're not as bad as they looked yesterday.

 

[Mooch]

I agree, and kind of want the game to be over as well. This Pats team has serious rebuilding work to do, it's not in showdown mode right now. I just want to get past this circus and keep chipping away at the stone, without having to listen to all the national media bullshit about Brady and Belichick and legacies and statements, blah blah blah. The broadcast is sure to be painful.

And I say that while also believing the Pats can show up and make a game of it, they're not as bad as they looked yesterday.

Unfortunately, a lot of the same problems are going to come up against Tampa: Pats will struggle to run against that front 7 and the offensive line will have problems protecting Mac again. This could get very ugly.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Unfortunately, a lot of the same problems are going to come up against Tampa: Pats will struggle to run against that front 7 and the offensive line will have problems protecting Mac again. This could get very ugly.

I have serious concerns about Mac getting injured in this game, which would be bad in any context but especially after one of the few bright spots yesterday was his left knee looking to be in better condition.

 

[BaseballJones]

Unfortunately, a lot of the same problems are going to come up against Tampa: Pats will struggle to run against that front 7 and the offensive line will have problems protecting Mac again. This could get very ugly.

If they can somehow pass protect, then Mac might have a nice game against them. Tampa's pass defense, when they can't get to the QB, is pretty suspect.

Tampa's pass defense has allowed 1,015 yards so far, worst in the league. They're second-worst in terms of yards allowed per game (338.3). They've allowed a 72.2% completion rate (28th in the NFL). And they've allowed a passer rating of 101.8 (19th in the NFL).

They absolutely can be thrown on provided Mac gets time. Which so far, has been a major problem.

By the way....the Pats' pass defense rankings:

- #2 in passer rating (65.9)
- #4 in completion percentage (59.3%)
- #3 in pass yards allowed (479)
- #2 in pass yards allowed per game (159.7)
- #8 in pass yards allowed per attempt (6.7)
- #2 in interceptions (5)
- #7 in sacks (9)

All that will be put to the test in a major way next week, obviously.

 

[rodderick]

Unfortunately, a lot of the same problems are going to come up against Tampa: Pats will struggle to run against that front 7 and the offensive line will have problems protecting Mac again. This could get very ugly.

Tampa's pass rush hasn't been anything special thus far. I agree they won't run on the Bucs, but then again they're giving up the second most points in football without any of their three opponent's attempting to run on them.

 

[joe dokes]

If they can somehow pass protect, then Mac might have a nice game against them. Tampa's pass defense, when they can't get to the QB, is pretty suspect.

I am hopeful (and hopefully not irrationally hoping) that Brown's improvement last week was real, and they kept him out for another week just to be sure and avoid aggravating an easily-aggravated injury.

 

[BaseballJones]

I am hopeful (and hopefully not irrationally hoping) that Brown's improvement last week was real, and they kept him out for another week just to be sure and avoid aggravating an easily-aggravated injury.

Brown would definitely be huge. Literally.

 

[ColdSoxPack]

Tom Curran is a major shit disturber. Bill should just take him on point blank: when are you going to let this go?

 

[ShaneTrot]

This was a tough weekend. I am expecting this week to be a fresh Hell with all the why Brady left takes and who is to blame. But it's only week 4, and the Pats can only play better than they did yesterday.

 

[lexrageorge]

Anyone that criticizes Belichick for those answers is an unqualified idiot and troll.

 

[reggiecleveland]

Anyone that criticizes Belichick for those answers is an unqualified idiot and troll.

I agree. He was about as honest and humble as he can be, admitting the team he made was not as good a place for Brady.

 

[Gash Prex]

I agree. He was about as honest and humble as he can be, admitting the team he made was not as good a place for Brady.

Yes but Bill hasn't prostrated himself in front of Tom Curran and apologized a 1000 times for letting Brady go (despite all evidence suggests that Brady wanted a change after 20 years).

 

[ColdSoxPack]

Did anyone else read "The Dynasty" by Jeff Benedict? Tom and Giselle went to Kraft's house to complain about BB:

“Bündchen spoke first and passionately outlined how much her husband had done for the organization over the previous eighteen years. She also pointed out how ridiculous it was that after all these years, Belichick still treated Brady like “fucking Johnny Foxboro.” It was bad enough to never voice approval. It was bullshit to still be dressing down the most accomplished quarterback in league history during team meetings and treating his personal trainer and best friend like some kind of outcast.”

Excerpt From: Jeff Benedict. “The Dynasty.” Apple Books. https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-dynasty/id1512777561

 

[Groovenstein]

Did anyone else read "The Dynasty" by Jeff Benedict? Tom and Giselle went to Kraft's house to complain about BB:

“Bündchen spoke first and passionately outlined how much her husband had done for the organization over the previous eighteen years. She also pointed out how ridiculous it was that after all these years, Belichick still treated Brady like “fucking Johnny Foxboro.” It was bad enough to never voice approval. It was bullshit to still be dressing down the most accomplished quarterback in league history during team meetings and treating his personal trainer and best friend like some kind of outcast.”

Excerpt From: Jeff Benedict. “The Dynasty.” Apple Books. https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-dynasty/id1512777561

Sounds like the most accomplished quarterback in league history needs a little humility.

 

[OurF'ingCity]

Did anyone else read "The Dynasty" by Jeff Benedict? Tom and Giselle went to Kraft's house to complain about BB:

“Bündchen spoke first and passionately outlined how much her husband had done for the organization over the previous eighteen years. She also pointed out how ridiculous it was that after all these years, Belichick still treated Brady like “fucking Johnny Foxboro.” It was bad enough to never voice approval. It was bullshit to still be dressing down the most accomplished quarterback in league history during team meetings and treating his personal trainer and best friend like some kind of outcast.”

Excerpt From: Jeff Benedict. “The Dynasty.” Apple Books. https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-dynasty/id1512777561

I take these specific anecdotes with massive grains of salt because it's all distorted by who the source is, what ulterior motives are at play, how a given meeting played out vs. how someone heard it played out, etc.

But, that said, it's abundantly clear that Brady went to TB in large part because Arians basically lets Brady do whatever he wants. (Although if the above excerpt is anywhere close to true, I wonder how Giselle felt about Arians's comments from early last season more or less throwing Brady under the bus and saying that whether the team wins or loses is more or less completely on Brady's shoulders.)

 

[rodderick]

Sounds like the most accomplished quarterback in league history needs a little humility.

Meh, I think it's understandable that a guy of Brady's stature is bothered by being treated like a rookie and being dressed down in film study after 6 Super Bowls in his 20th year. Think Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers would stand that for one Monday? I don't.

 

[Justthetippett]

I’ll be pleasantly surprised if this game is competitive. Brady wins the divorce every time he suits up and kicks ass; I’d actually be surprised if there’s much extra motivation facing off against Bill directly. Hard to have another gear when you’re locked in at 100 on the field all the time. Same with Bill. If anything I’d think Bill’s axe to grind is about the Jimmy G situation since he had a pretty good transition plan in place and it just didn’t quite work out. Now he starts back at zero with Mac, and that comes with bumps.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

FWIW, I was driving around this weekend and heard Chris Gasper on 98.5 say something to the effect of "the Patriots were surprised at how high maintenance Tom became in his last few years with the Pats. But the reality is that he was absurdly low maintenance for almost his entire time here (for someone of his accomplishments and stature), and only became average maintenance at the end."

I mean you never really know but that sort of seems right to me.

 

[Captaincoop]

Did anyone else read "The Dynasty" by Jeff Benedict? Tom and Giselle went to Kraft's house to complain about BB:

“Bündchen spoke first and passionately outlined how much her husband had done for the organization over the previous eighteen years. She also pointed out how ridiculous it was that after all these years, Belichick still treated Brady like “fucking Johnny Foxboro.” It was bad enough to never voice approval. It was bullshit to still be dressing down the most accomplished quarterback in league history during team meetings and treating his personal trainer and best friend like some kind of outcast.”

Excerpt From: Jeff Benedict. “The Dynasty.” Apple Books. https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-dynasty/id1512777561

Reading this story reminds me why this week is going to be so annoying.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

This really feels like a first family event that sees partners in the same place post-divorce.

 

[Groovenstein]

Meh, I think it's understandable that a guy of Brady's stature is bothered by being treated like a rookie and being dressed down in film study after 6 Super Bowls in his 20th year. Think Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers would stand that for one Monday? I don't.

I hear ya, that it’s understandable in the sense that it’s common, and that guys like Manning and Rodgers wouldn’t. It might take a certain level of ego to get to that position. I just think optimal leadership probably calls for expecting, and modeling, that one is not above one’s teammates.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

I wonder if the Patriots will do anything when Brady passes Brees on Sunday, like an acknowledgment of the record on the video screen. I would think Pats fans will give him a great ovation.

 

[rodderick]

I hear ya, that it’s understandable in the sense that it’s common, and that guys like Manning and Rodgers wouldn’t. It might take a certain level of ego to get to that position. I just think optimal leadership probably calls for expecting, and modeling, that one is not above one’s teammates.

And from all indications he did for most of those 20 years. I recall a scene from the Jimmy Johnson A Football Life where he's fishing with Bill and telling an anecdote about how you have to treat players differently, in that if a rookie UDFA was asleep in a meeting, Jimmy would berate the guy and probably cut him, while if Troy Aikman were asleep, he'd gently tap him on the shoulder and whisper "Troy, let's wake up" in his ear, to which Bill seemingly agreed. I don't think you have to handle the guy with kid gloves, but I totally get how at a certain point Brady came to see Bill as more of a peer than a superior and it bothered him to not see that reciprocated.

 

[SMU_Sox]

Reading this story reminds me why this week is going to be so annoying.

The drama is annoying to me too. I am with you 100%. I don't fucking care. Tom is in Tompa Bay. Belichick is here. There is a game of football to be played - this isn't a Dr. Phil special. They ain't going on Oprah. No one will be jumping on a couch.

So for the game in particular I want to see how much Tampa uses stunts/twists and blitzes to pressure Mac and if the OL is going to finally start improving against them. Aside from Herron/Durant/Dumpster-fire at RT it isn't that they are losing 1:1s. I mean sure, there are examples of that, but that isn't the main issue with the pass protection. The main issue is that they are not blocking up anything well minus a vanilla rush. That's all coaching and execution and something that will get better with time... you'd expect. If the OL can get better with that we're going to see Mac have a top 10 pressure rate and plenty of time to throw in a clean pocket. Is this the week they clean that up? If so this might be a week where they go more 11 and take advantage of some of TB's injuries and performance issues with the back end of their defense. When they went 11 last week they had decent success. Also, while Bourne isn't straight line fast he strikes me as the typical Patriots Z who can be used on jet sweeps and put into motion. I'd like to see more of that this week too. Right now their 11 package is looking a lot better than their 12. Maybe they use more of that this week?

Defensively last week we saw them go more big nickel with 3 safeties (as predicted). This week though is interesting because you could make an argument for big nickel or using more Jon Jones and I think I like more Jon Jones than big nickel because TB doesn't have a great running game. I'd put Jones on Godwin and JCJ on Evans. Ideally I think you'd want to put a taller corner on Evans but with Gilmore out it might be easier to live with JCJ on him and just hope he can hold up enough at the catch point. You could possibly use JJW or Shaun Wade there but neither guy is as good a corner as Evans is as a pass catcher. Dugger hasn't been great in coverage but Phillips has. You want to use a safety or corner on Gronk. In theory a physical guy like Dugger would be a nice matchup but I don't think his coverage skills are there yet. This might not be a big Bentley game. I think you see 4-2-5 with High and Phillips as the LBs and Phillips the guy who handles Gronk. I am also worried about High. He doesn't look like the same guy.

 

[shoosh77]

First Sunday night game for me and the oldest (his birthday present). Coming in from CT, where is the best lot for prepaid parking? A follow up, how early can we get there? Thinking if early enough maybe I can sneak a nap in haha.

 

[bankshot1]

I wonder if the Patriots will do anything when Brady passes Brees on Sunday, like an acknowledgment of the record on the video screen. I would think Pats fans will give him a great ovation.

General question.

Does the NFL have a policy when a major record gets broken?
I've seen and heard comments about the Pats stopping the game if the passing yards record is broken. (Brady is about 70 yards away) I'd be surprised if the Pats have the power to stop the game to do anything that wasn't already pre-approved and planned for by the NFL with a heads up to the networks.

 

[Preacher]

First Sunday night game for me and the oldest (his birthday present). Coming in from CT, where is the best lot for prepaid parking? A follow up, how early can we get there? Thinking if early enough maybe I can sneak a nap in haha.

I’ll be there Sunday as well. It feels like a final homage. My parents parked at the Lafayette House for years and we’ll be there Sunday night. It’s a long walk to the stadium but we don’t have to drive on Route 1 at all. I took over their season tickets 3 seasons ago, so final season of Brady. Selling tickets was easy back then when no one wanted to go and I made a decent profit on the season. Last season, obviously couldn’t sell any tickets. This year, I couldn’t sell a preseason ticket, couldn’t sell 2 of the 4 Dolphins tickets and sold the Saints tickets at a loss. I don’t think I’ll keep this up if I’m losing hundreds of dollars every season and no one I know is using the tickets. Might be the last game I attend before not renewing season tickets we’ve had for 29 seasons. Of course, I could have probably broken even selling the tickets for this game at the current going rate.

 

[lexrageorge]

General question.

Does the NFL have a policy when a major record gets broken?
I've seen and heard comments about the Pats stopping the game if the passing yards record is broken. (Brady is about 70 yards away) I'd be surprised if the Pats have the power to stop the game to do anything that wasn't already pre-approved and planned for by the NFL with a heads up to the networks.

Can be tricky. What if the Bucs are running hurry up at the time? Not sure Bill is going to use a timeout just to get an announcement on the video board. But seems more plausible once the possession ends.

 

[bankshot1]

Can be tricky. What if the Bucs are running hurry up at the time? Not sure Bill is going to use a timeout just to get an announcement on the video board. But seems more plausible once the possession ends.

Exactly the possibility for gamemanship to kill momentum or give your guys a free TO seems un NFL like. I assume its up to the NFL to orchestrate this and not the Pats.

 

[E5 Yaz]

"Comments made by Thomas Edward Brady, a 77-year-old insurance company CEO who should know better at this point in his life, doesn't necessarily reflect the views or positions held by his son, Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr., so furthermore should Tom Sr. continue to speak out on behalf of his son without the express written consent on Jr reserves the right to eventually put him in a home against his will. That's all I have to say."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32295008/tom-brady-previews-return-new-england-ahead-buccaneers-patriots-showdown

 

[Red Averages]

Gronk’s return is really under the radar too. I suspect the crowd will be excited to see him as well. I hope Brady breaks the passing yards record on a pass to him so that they can both be honored by the crowd mid-game.
I’ll be on the house for this one and couldn’t be more excited for the reminiscing pre-game tailgates.

 

[rodderick]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32295008/tom-brady-previews-return-new-england-ahead-buccaneers-patriots-showdown

Okay, this was well done.

 

[tims4wins]

I thought this was a good interview with Guerrero.

View: https://twitter.com/nbcsboston/status/1442978514806796305?s=21