The Goat Thread: SBLII vs Eagles

kenneycb

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Can't someone take the position that a) Belichick is a great GM and there's no one we'd rather have running the team and b) the defensive talent is unacceptably bad, costing them the SB this year, and ultimately that lies at Belichick's feet?
Yes. That was not the take IMO.
 

Ale Xander

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BB or Butler whoevers fault it was Butler wasn't playing

Elandon Roberts absolutely got eaten alive by Kelce up the middle

Bademosi and everyone else who missed clement tackles

Patricia

A few other ones
 

dcmissle

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That kinda stuff happens when a non-quarterback has to throw to a non-receiver.


Is it a coincidence that the last three times the Pats have given up 40+ points, it's been to Reid / Pederson, Reid, and Pederson? The talent is a problem but it seems like Reid / Pederson have figured something out and have Belichick and Patricia's number.
Then I suppose the people who scoffed at Mike Lombardi about this being a bad matchup should not have scoffed.
 

Fishercat

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It really did seem like a Front 7 talent disparity. The Pedersen/Reid point is certainly a good one and there's a coaching element, but there's also an element of a good power running game mixed with at least one offensive weapon (Hill and Clement for example) who are matchup nightmares on the sound but slower LB corps. They did a great job this year of hiding Hightower's absence but between the big chunk power runs and inability to really get to Foles it showed up. The DBs did what they could by and large, it's hard to really get the offense for much.

ST also kind of puked on itself which is very...odd.
 

heavyde050

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Then I suppose the people who scoffed at Mike Lombardi about this being a bad matchup should not have scoffed.
Any offense with players that are breathing is a bad matchup for this defense.
Lombardi’s analysis never mentioned how great the Pats offense would be.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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We needed more out of the defense.
This sums it up perfectly. Nothing more to say - Brady and the offense played very well. Special teams left four points on the table but none of that matters if they can get stops. The defense needs more impact players. Time for whomever becomes the DC to put a new imprint on things.
 

Ale Xander

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Whoever chose to not line Gilmore up one on one vs. Jeffrey from the jump. Every catch over Rowe, I couldn’t help but yell “where’s Gilmore?!”
Oh yeah that too.

Rule of thumb is defense has the edge on college matchups no?
 

Ralphwiggum

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Defense obviously.

Red zone fuck ups by the offense and special teams in the first quarter. Two trips inside the 10 yard line netted 3 points. In a game in which the defense couldn’t do anything, those two possessions ended up being huge.

But really, the defense was horrendous. It was bad all year and they managed to mask the issues for the most part after week 4, but they were exposed big time by an offense that is good but not great with a backup QB playing and were torched.
 

dcmissle

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Yes. That was not the take IMO.
It certainly was.

If you cannot pressure the QB — Foles was virtually untouched — and your coverage is bad with the exception of the work done by Gilmore and Chung, and you cannot tackle, you are pretty much screwed.
 

rodderick

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Bill Belichick. This defense has very little talent, and that's on him. Gameplan was also terrible, as was execution. Fact is, this has been a very subpar unit all year, but people kept harping on "they're 5th in points allowed!!!". Well, there it is. We all knew a performance like this was likely to come.
 

m0ckduck

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I’m still amazed they lost a game where they didn’t punt, didn’t allow a sack and were equal in TOs.

we've seen coaching overcome talent issues on the defensive side of the ball. that just didn't translate tonight at all.
This. NE has relied on other teams’ shaky coaching and/or shaky QB play to make the bend-but-don’t-break thing work. It wasn’t enough today. Recall your expectations pre-season, then subtract Hightower, Butler, and finally factor in some excellent coaching and timely Foles plays and it all makes sense.
 

Cabin Mirror

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We needed more out of the defense.
This really is pretty much it.

I bought in that they were better than this. They definitely flashed a few awesome plays. The screen where there were 3 pats ready to make the tackle comes to mind, a few other good plays, but other than that, they had us figured out. I assumed that 2nd half adjustments would cure the ills, but that did not happen (obviously).
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Bill Belichick. This defense has very little talent, and that's on him. Gameplan was also terrible, as was execution. Fact is, this has been a very subpar unit all year, but people kept harping on "they're 5th in points allowed!!!". Well, there it is. We all knew a performance like this was likely to come.
It's not BB's fault Hightower's injured.
 

Super Nomario

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It really did seem like a Front 7 talent disparity. The Pedersen/Reid point is certainly a good one and there's a coaching element, but there's also an element of a good power running game mixed with at least one offensive weapon (Hill and Clement for example) who are matchup nightmares on the sound but slower LB corps. They did a great job this year of hiding Hightower's absence but between the big chunk power runs and inability to really get to Foles it showed up. The DBs did what they could by and large, it's hard to really get the offense for much.

ST also kind of puked on itself which is very...odd.
I mean, I like Corey Clement, but the dude had 123 receiving yards all season and had 100 tonight. The Belichick / Patricia D was an open book to Pederson. Other than the failed fake reverse, every move the Eagles made worked.
 

BigSoxFan

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This really is pretty much it.

I bought in that they were better than this. They definitely flashed a few awesome plays. The screen where there were 3 pats ready to make the tackle comes to mind, a few other good plays, but other than that, they had us figured out. I assumed that 2nd half adjustments would cure the ills, but that did not happen (obviously).
Need more front 7 difference makers. Really isn’t much that needs to be done other than that. OL was great and not an issue at all.
 

rodderick

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It's not BB's fault Hightower's injured.
It's BB's fault a single injury means you have zero athleticism in your front seven. If he goes into a season counting on Hightower to be healthy all year as the key to his defense working, that's horrible. Dude's been injured his entire career and his medical history by all accounts cost him a shit ton of money in free agency and scared a lot of teams away.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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We needed more out of the defense.
The sad part is they didn't even need to be good.

They barely needed to be competent. They needed only to be able to tackle, get leverage, and once every 15 plays or so make Foles a bit uncomfortable. They were so absolutely awful. 41 is generous, given that they missed an extra point and also missed two two-point conversions. The Eagles scored 5 touchdowns and 3 field goals. That's staggering. The defense essentially needed to make one or two plays to win a super bowl. There were probably 20 plays, for example, that the Jags made against the Patriots that if the Patriots had managed one or two of them, it's a different game.

Twelve third and fourth down conversions. I cannot believe how rotten the defense was. One play for loss.

After the offense makes it a 3 point game to go into the half and the Eagles just dominate the next drive and punch it in was awful. No tackling, no position, no nothing. The Patriots just couldn't freaking do anything.
 

lexrageorge

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The Pats front 7 has been a problem all season. Most games they were able to cover the holes, but this time they were simply ourmatched by a superior D. No one left on the Pats to make a play on that side of the ball when one was needed.

Perhaps if they had an extra 1st or 4th round pick, they could have more depth there when Hightower went down; thanks Roger the Clown!!!

Not sure why folks would be upset at the replay calls; the first was really tough to tell if the receiver lost possession, and on the second, the guy was clearly a runner by the time he crossed the goal line. Defense still needs to make plays and they didn’t.
 

BaseballJones

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We needed more out of the defense.
We needed SOMETHING from this defense. The only stop all game basically was that tipped INT that actually could have been caught for a long gain.

Crazy numbers....

First downs: NE 29, Phi 25
Total yards: NE 613, Phi 538
Punts: NE 0, Phi 1
Missed kicks: NE 2, Phi 1
Sacks: NE 0, Phi 1 (strip sack to win the game basically)
Yds/play: NE 8.5, Phi 7.6
TFL: NE 4, Phi 1 (that strip sack...otherwise zero negative plays by the Pats' offense)

I mean, the Patriots put up SIX HUNDRED AND THIRTEEN yards of offense, with literally ONE negative play the entire night, and that one negative play won the game for Philly. We all know the Pats were scoring a TD on that drive if not for that play.
 

Rook05

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Did Wise play any snaps on D?

What a strange game. The Pats seemed to prioritize setting the edge at all times. They’ve certainly done that in the past but I can’t remember less pressure on an opposing QB in the last few years. Even when they dialed up some A gaps blitzes, they were too slow and picked up by the Eagles. I miss Hightower.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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You could have picked up 5 guys off the street to play with Harrison and Van Noy and the front 7 wouldn’t have been worse.

The Eagles secondary had probably one of the worst secondary games I’ve ever seen and they still don’t hold a candle to how bad our front 7 was. I got excited by a couple late Harrison bull rushes that might have made Foles breathe a little quicker. Those were some of the best plays! Other than that, the only plays they made were on iffy sideways play calls by the Eagles.

They were blown off the line, lost in zone coverage, lost in man coverage, and couldn’t have gotten pressure against blocking dummies. Someone said in the game thread they should have dropped 8—couldn’t have hurt. Mostly just guys standing there hoping somebody fell down in front of them, like a whole unit of late career Ninks. The Eagles showed everything they had two weeks ago, and did the exact same thing to the Pats. Patricia certainly didn’t add any value there (totally unprepared to defend Clement, for example), but shit that unit was so bad.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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This year? The defense has been a subpar unit for years, especially in the playoffs. What was this, the fourth or fifth time since 2014 they faced double digit deficit in the playoffs? Brady and the offense being an elite unit has been the only saving grace.
 

eddiew112

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As others have said, they just needed the defense to be bad. Instead they were awful.

Pointing the finger at any o-lineman seems silly, they were exceptional all night.
 

JimD

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Not that it's all of him, of course, but dammit Tom - White was open on that strip sack play. That could have shaped up perfectly to drive the field, score a TD and leave the Eagles little to no time to respond.

Also ... lol at the Belichick hate around here right now.
 

Ralphwiggum

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The Eagles and Jordan Hicks come right back at you. Key injuries happen. If 1 guy going down is sufficient to sink the ship, the ship isn’t very seaworthy.
Sinking ship?

I hope you sober up and read this thread tomorrow and are embarassed.
 

dcmissle

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They made the fucking Super Bowl. What sinking ship?

Christ people, perspective.
The point is forward looking one about things that dearly need to be addressed.

Because maybe next year, Cousins is playing for Jax instead of Bortles.
 

DegenerateSoxFan

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They made the fucking Super Bowl. What sinking ship?

Christ people, perspective.
+1

This was one of the downright weirdest Super Bowls I can remember, and sometimes, it just isn’t your night. Brady threw for 500+, 3TD, 0 INT, (9 rec, 116 yards, and 2 TD for Gronk!) and they lost.

Just saw Brady being interviewed and he was classy as always.
 

queenb

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BB.

Clement was tackled after a long catch and run at the 7 yard line with 1:35 left in the half, but BB chose not to call any of their 3 TOs. Wasted 40 seconds. Not only could they have used that time to score before halftime, I think part of the reason Pederson went for it on 4th is because they ran the play with 38 seconds left. Probably figured if they fail, that's not enough time left for the Pats. But with 1:15 or something on the clock, they might kick.
 

Hoya81

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Injuries. Having Hightower, Rivers, McClellin, Jones etc would have made the difference.
 

dcmissle

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Not that it's all of him, of course, but dammit Tom - White was open on that strip sack play. That could have shaped up perfectly to drive the field, score a TD and leave the Eagles little to no time to respond.

Also ... lol at the Belichick hate around here right now.
Yes, mentioned painfully in game thread. But isn’t that also like blaming Mason?

So everyone on offense has to bowl a 300 game because the defense sucks so badly.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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It's kind of interesting that Gostkowski had played 24 playoff games without ever really being a factor in the field goal game. He has had way fewer attempts per game in the playoffs than in the regular season -- heck we won a Super Bowl with him just making one kick in three games one year. He's largely been irrelevant except of course for kick offs. His missed extra point last year was big, but ultimately didn't matter. The truth is that he's had very few pressure kicks and nothing he's done one way or other other has mattered.

I don't know if you can blame him, but he wasn't great tonight. Even his kickoffs were poor, and the Eagles were really well coached on taking out the gunners.

Bill's complete lack of confidence in Gostkowski from the 35 was also a pretty big headscratcher.
 

nighthob

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I’m going with Bademosi for missing that open field tackle on third down that would have gotten the Patriots a much needed stop in the third quarter.

I joked with my brother at the half that the first team to record a defensive stop was going to win. It should have been New England, unfortunately Bademosi whiffed and the Eagles scored a TD to go back up by ten.
 

streeter88

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Wish we had not let LGBT go. If he was on our side, Foles is easier to stop.

D was pretty rough today. So many extra chances given to Foles, and almost no pressure on him.

That said, if they protected Brady the last drive, Pats would have won.

THIS CLOSE.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Wow.

That was as disgusting a game as I have seen the Patriots play, pretty much ever. How in the ever living fuck do Belichick and Patricia produce a defense that fails to even fucking show up in the biggest game of the year.

Malcolm Butler, who was good enough to play all fucking season suddently benched in the SB? Because, why exactly?

In the end, and unconscionably bad as the defense played, just one more fucking stop would have been enough. It still would have been a hideously bad performance, but it would have been just enough for the Pats offense.

This is an Eagles team that scored 15 points in the Divisional round, and the Pats defense made them look like the '07 Pats offense.

This game was a fucking disgrace.

I'll forgive the Pats offense for having its collective head jammed up its ass for much of the first half, failing miserably on 2 golden red zone opportunities, because fucking around like that has been the SB norm for them and they have made it work somehow.

But JFC what an unbelievable defensive no show.