The Goat Thread: SBLII vs Eagles
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Agreed, but there has been a lot of talent drain/removed from the organization over the last couple of years.
Collins, Chandler Jones, and the docked draft pick. That's a lot to take from a defense and the first 2 were BB choices. It left them very thin in high end talent. I'm not faulting him for those decisions except to say that when you do make those choices your margin for error is reduced. Less able to withstand an injury to hightower or the like. When you reach the superbowl 3 of 4 years in the face of that - BB might argue he was right. And he's BB, so what do I know
lol
I'm going with Belichick and Patricia for having him in there while maybe their best open foeld tackler sat on the bench all game long.
I got howled at in the game thread for suggesting there was little downside to running that play in that situation. Worst case scenario (realistically, a turnover return for TD COULD have happened), it's 1st and 10 Patriots inside their own 5 with seconds left to march downfield for a score to make it one possession at the half. Pederson pulled every lever and they all came up 7s. Hats off to him.
But yeah, the defence. It can't be that bad and win.
I dunno, he has now blown easy kicks in three straight playoffs. Missed XP at denver cost the game ultimately. Should have last year too if not for Atlanta’s epic pantsshitting.
Yeah, the Belichick hate going on is over the top. As is the Patricia hate. That being said... The Eagles with Foles at QB managed 19 against Oakland, 15 against ATL, and 0 against Dallas. I understand that they just put up 38 against the Vikings (but 7 were the defense on the board, more due to position really), but this offense wasn't that good... Really, really bad tonight. But, man, we're so spoiled.
The snap and hold on the FG try made it impossible for Ghost to make it; he had to stop halfway through his run.
The XP miss was bad, but the Eagles kicker missed one as well. Sometimes it happens.
He kind of did. Kept bringing up how Iggles struggles with Giants and Pats ran a lot of similar things to what bothered Phi.
Very true, but the Brady hate is even crazier to me.
Some posts even stated he was the reason the Pats lost.
The reasons for the loss all seem to be on the defense. The coaching definitely is higher up on the blame list than Brady but not the reason.
See, if we accept there is no one we'd rather have, we're saying no one else will likely assemble a better defense without having to sacrifice a key contributor or two on offense. It just comes down to the fact that it's really hard to keep pumping out championship caliber units in three phases when your first round pick is 28th or worse every damn year and you didn't have one in 2016. Maybe there are moves a putative perfect GM makes. Maybe some specific moves (Jones trade?) are worth raking over the coals. But they just came within a couple of plays of a championship, as they did in 2011 with another shitty defense.
Brady’s winning percentage in the Super Bowl plummeted from 71% to 63%.
Sucks, but there’s always next year. Granted, the possibilities max out at 67% then.
I'm not blaming the refs. The Pats defense didn't show up.
But I am responding to the question regarding the potential Clement touchdown.
That is not a catch. Most of the camera angles sucked, but there was one angle that clearly showed that not only did he not entirely have possession before the left foot stepped out of bounds, but his hands also briefly came off the ball just before he hit the ground. 2 bobbles. It wasn't even close.
But I am responding to the question regarding the potential Clement touchdown.
That is not a catch. Most of the camera angles sucked, but there was one angle that clearly showed that not only did he not entirely have possession before the left foot stepped out of bounds, but his hands also briefly came off the ball just before he hit the ground. 2 bobbles. It wasn't even close.
Need to get some real pass rushers. Can’t let QBs sit back in the pocket all day. Also need better coverage LBs.
In general I think there's a lot more luck in personnel moves than we generally credit. You don't really know who you're getting when you take a 21-year-old and project them out to 26. I think Belichick makes moves in a probabilistic fashion with the idea that they can play out in different ways, but boy there were a lot of whiffs in assembling the D this year.
This was a great game to watch and I'd still rather be a Pats fan than any other team (including Philly) but I'd won't look back too wistfully on Patricia.
This was not an adequate defensive performance.
Foles made some crazy plays, including the 4th and 1 jump ball to Ertz with Flowers in his face, but on a play to play basis the Pats D got its ass kicked.
Foles made some crazy plays, including the 4th and 1 jump ball to Ertz with Flowers in his face, but on a play to play basis the Pats D got its ass kicked.
Even on that play, Ertz was wide open on a kind of mesh / rub thing. They had guys open all night.
Oh, just what I needed. A reminder that with Butler gone I'll probably have to watch Cyrus Jones getting meaningful snaps next season.
it was only one play, but that screen pass "attempt" is going to give me nightmares
McCourty for making a prostrate lunge in an attempt to tackle Ertz at around the two-yard line, and Belichick for not doing a better job instilling awareness of this situation in his players. McCourty made exactly the same mistake (this time with fatal consequences for the team) in a regular season game in Buffalo back in 2011.
(Yes, McCourty's contact with Ertz led to the remote possibility that the pass could have been ruled incomplete. It took a fluke occurrence [and would have taken a further error by the replay officials] for this to happen.)
(Yes, McCourty's contact with Ertz led to the remote possibility that the pass could have been ruled incomplete. It took a fluke occurrence [and would have taken a further error by the replay officials] for this to happen.)
Goats
Cardona - bad snap
Gostkowski - extra point
Brady - catch it
But- well-played game. Not really many goats. Eagles were better.
Cardona - bad snap
Gostkowski - extra point
Brady - catch it
But- well-played game. Not really many goats. Eagles were better.
For a goat, it's hard to blame Cooks for getting hurt, but he looked like he was trying to do way too much out there. On the red zone play it looked like he could have gotten the first by staying outside or cutting inside instead of the attempted hurtle. And I have no idea where he was trying to go on the injury play.
Nope, not adequate at all. It's a lot easier to get a defensive gameplan in the Hall of Fame when you have LT, Banks and Pepper start at LB instead of Roberts, KVN, and a recently unretired 39 year old with what 40 snaps for the year coming in?
There was also Bill actually giving the players the night off on Thursday and going to the Wolves game for a bit. bit hot take-ish I know.
I think Bill just had a terrible two weeks of coaching. very rare but he is not immune to getting outcoached.
I think Bill just had a terrible two weeks of coaching. very rare but he is not immune to getting outcoached.
I don't have a ton of issue with the trades, but it's also worth noting that the return on these guys went 100% to the offensive side of the ball. Jones was traded for Jonathan Cooper (G) and a draft pick which was turned into Joe Thuney (G) and Malcolm Mitchell (WR). Collins was traded for a late third which became Antonio Garcia (T). Add in the failed Easley pick, the lost Deflategate pick, and trading a first this year for Cooks (WR) and you've got them putting a ton of resources on the offense at the expense of the D.Agreed, but there has been a lot of talent drain/removed from the organization over the last couple of years.
Collins, Chandler Jones, and the docked draft pick. That's a lot to take from a defense and the first 2 were BB choices. It left them very thin in high end talent. I'm not faulting him for those decisions except to say that when you do make those choices your margin for error is reduced. Less able to withstand an injury to hightower or the like. When you reach the superbowl 3 of 4 years in the face of that - BB might argue he was right. And he's BB, so what do I know
Patricia's defense has given up and average of 31 points in 3 Super Bowl games. We're lucky as hell to have gone 2-1 in them. It felt like I was watching a Big 12 game or something. And if it weren't for a fluke INT, we might have gotten blown out of the building.
Also a giant F- to special teams, which is supposed to be a strength for us.
Brady was amazing - Hogan/Amendola/Gronk/RBs were all amazing and the defense flat out let the team down. We'll never know if Butler would have made a difference, which is the worst part. I can accept a benching but I can't accept a benching that involves Jordan freaking Richards to play crucial snaps. He is an utter dogshit football player and has never done anything of substance.
Also a giant F- to special teams, which is supposed to be a strength for us.
Brady was amazing - Hogan/Amendola/Gronk/RBs were all amazing and the defense flat out let the team down. We'll never know if Butler would have made a difference, which is the worst part. I can accept a benching but I can't accept a benching that involves Jordan freaking Richards to play crucial snaps. He is an utter dogshit football player and has never done anything of substance.
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Good point as well.
Given his history as a defensive guru/genius, it's amazing to me that since 2007 really BB has devoted so much of the resources to the offensive side of the ball. On one hand we could hypothesize he is maximizing his potential for Brady to be successful - in essence trying to amplify the value of what he believes his greatest on field advantage is. Or perhaps with the rules changes in the league, he doesn't believe that you can win based on an incredible defense and marginal offense any more. I'd love to here BB expand on the evolution of the way personnel resources are brought to bear.
Well ... prior to the last couple offseasons, he was spending money on the offense but almost all the major draft capital was going to D. The last time they used their draft top pick on an offensive player was Solder back in '11 (unless we count Cooks this year). The first six(!) picks in 2012, three of the first four in 2013, the top pick in 2014 (Easley, though that draft did involve offensive investment later), the first four picks in 2015, the first pick in 2016. But a lot of the good players (Jones, Collins, Ryan) are gone and the whiffs and missing picks have started to hurt them.
Fair enough. Maybe you know this - how does one quantify the value of a 1st round draft pick? Is it simple as projecting that a successful pick is a "starter" for x years? I'm just wondering what the general cost of the forfeited draft picks were, because it is obviously a multiyear penalty that keeps getting felt. Clearly at the Pats typical draft position it isn't as bad as losing out on say a franchise cornerstone for 15 years, but it has to be substantial - not to mention the opportunities to trade the pick for more advantageous return.
I would like to give the Eagles their credit, too. They played a hell of a game. Pllllenty of blame to go around on the Pats side, but in the end, you are what you do. Pats got beat.
More complete football team won. Coaching staff was bad. Offense almost played a perfect game to still win. Not much more to it than that.
Hopefully Philly shows a bit of class...
Hopefully Philly shows a bit of class...
They've had a few bad tackling games this year. Which I think in part is random. Over the course of a season, one team can demonstrate consistent better tackling than another, but from game to game any team can look like a great tackling team one week and a poor tackling team the following. I think it has to be in part randomness, in part small sample size, and in part just the human part of the game.
ST has been called out already for missed FG and PAT. But they did not do a great job on kickoff coverage either. Didn’t pin Eagles deep at all, and did get pinned deep right at the end.
Yeah, in a game with a number of baffling calls, the weird hook-and-ladder thing they tried that cost them 10 yards of field position and burned an extra 10-20 seconds off the game clock was one of the most baffling.
I understand why they had that play on, it was worth a shot. But when the Eagles had it covered Lewis should have just eaten it to save the few yards of field position plus the 4 or 5 seconds that ticked off.
This is the first of BB’s 8 SBs I’d say he was outcoached. Guess it had to happen sometime even for the GOAT