The Greatest of All Time

[Deathofthebambino]

Notice there is no question mark at the end of that title.  Because there is no FUCKING QUESTION.  Tom Brady, BB and the New England Patriots are the greatest of all time respectively, and there is no longer any argument to be made otherwise.  Until today, people could make arguments for Montana, or Walsh, or whoever but not any fucking more.  The debate is over.
 
Since 2001, the Patriots have been to almost 50% of the Super Bowls that have been played, in age of parity never before seen in the history of sports.  They have been to 9 of 13 AFCCG's.   They have won 6 of them.  Four fucking super bowl titles. 
 
The argument is over.  I'm watching Chris Carter and others question what this "investigation" will show and how it will affect their legacy.
 
IT WON'T.  IT DOESN'T.  Fuck everyone that questioned this team, this coach and this quarterback.  FUCK ALL OF YOU. 
 
This run of greatness will never happen again in our lifetimes. 
 
As a season ticket holder since 1995 (I missed one home game from 2000-2012), I'm privileged to have been able to watch this unfold, and so is everyone else no matter what team you root for, and if you can't recognize that as a fan of the sport, you don't deserve to watch the game. 
 
The greatest of all time.  Period. 
 
Tomorrow, I'll come back and make a more reasoned, articulate post on the topic, but for now, I just needed to get something out.

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

A lot of fuck yous to other fans, the sports "media," other players, coaches, the league, and pretty much anyone who has been talking about this team. You can all go fuck yourselves. Choke on it.

 

[Kull]

Bob Kraft has owned the Patriots for 21 years and his teams have been to 7 Super Bowls. In the Salary Cap era. And his three coaches were Parcells, Carroll, and Belichick. Pretty amazing.

 

[DaughtersofDougMirabelli]

I honestly think number 5 may be easier to grab now. 4 just seemed like THE number for both those guys legacies. Probably a huge weight off both their shoulders.
 
I want more, I'm sure they do too. 

 

[rodderick]

I honestly think number 5 may be easier to grab now. 4 just seemed like THE number for both those guys legacies. Probably a huge weight off both their shoulders.
 
I want more, I'm sure they do too. 

 
I don't see a scenario in which this team isn't right back in the final four next season. 5 is well within reach.

 

[SumnerH]

 
I don't see a scenario in which this team isn't right back in the final four next season. 5 is well within reach.

The o line is still potentially a problem with an injury or two. Brady could decline enough to matter. Buffalo could kill the draft and a fluky game or two puts them ahead of us. There's no talent decline but Brady throws 2-3 picks and/or some fumbles happen and/or kick returns upset us in the first round of the playoffs.

I like our chances much as anyone, and I love our management; I'm mostly optimistic. But it's not difficult to imagine circumstances where the team declines enough or had bad enough luck to have an early playoff exit or possibly miss the playoffs. The 2007 team could've fluked an early playoff exit.

 

[rodderick]

The o line is still potentially a problem with an injury or two. Brady could decline enough to matter. Buffalo could kill the draft and a fluky game or two puts them ahead of us. There's no talent decline but Brady throws 2-3 picks and/or some fumbles happen and/or kick returns upset us in the first round of the playoffs.

I like our chances much as anyone, and I love our management; I'm mostly optimistic. But it's not difficult to imagine circumstances where the team declines enough or had bad enough luck to have an early playoff exit or possibly miss the playoffs. The 2007 team could've fluked an early playoff exit.

 
Well, obviously, if something fluky happens they could be bounced out early, so maybe "I can't see a sccenario" wasn't the best phrasing. Either way, very hard to imagine them not being there. 

 

[dynomite]

Notice there is no question mark at the end of that title.  Because there is no FUCKING QUESTION.  Tom Brady, BB and the New England Patriots are the greatest of all time respectively, and there is no longer any argument to be made otherwise.

Hey, guess what?
 

Spoiler

THE PATRIOTS JUST WON THE FUCKING SUPER BOWL AND TOM BRADY IS THE GREATEST QB EVER AND BELICHICK IS THE BEST COACH EVER AND EVERYONE ELSE CAN SUCK IT AND I LOVE EVERYTHIGN

 

[Laser Show]

Guess who has as many rings as Peyton Manning?
 
JIMMY G BABY

 

[Kliq]

I think Brady is unquestioably the  GOAT QB of all-time. He has as many rings as anybody else, only he played in an era where the QB mattered the most, and he is just statistically superior to Montana and Bradshaw, and it isn't even close. Not to mention the talent disparity at other postions between the 49ers and Steelers and the Patriots. IMO, Jordan really sealed the deal on GOAT status when he did the whole layup-strip Malone-push off jumper sequence to earn his 6th ring. Brady just performed the eqivalent of that tonight during the 4th quarter. Two terrific drives with no running game at all, against perhaps the best secondary ever, to win the Super Bowl. That's cold-blooded.
 
BB is harder to rate, simply because while the QB debate for GOAT is kind of up for grabs, their are certain figures in the coaching game that loom so distingushable that it is hard to see any modern coach getting a fair chance at topping them. It is really hard to compare what BB has done with what Lombardi or Paul Brown have done. Not counting Lombardi, whose legend was really sealed before the SB era, he is unquestionably the best coach of the SB era, better than Shula, Walsh, Landry, Knoll, etc. but it is really hard to say he was better than Brown because of the impact Brown had on the art of coaching.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

Ty Law and Troy Brown are asked who the greatest quarterback of all time is.
 
Their answer may shock you.  Then again, probably not.

 

[Jettisoned]

Pretty clear why all these former NFL QB's came out of the woodwork to dump on Brady over the last two weeks.  Montana, Aikman, Young, Simms... what a bunch of classless, insecure wankers. I would be very surprised if Brady ever pulls that sort of garbage after he's retired.

 

[Beomoose]

Ty Law and Troy Brown are asked who the greatest quarterback of all time is.
 
Their answer may shock you.  Then again, probably not.

You gotta go full Gawker Media with that: "Ty Law and Troy Brown's shocking choice for GOAT QB"

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

Hey Peyton, sing along. Tom Brady is better than meeeeee.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

I agree that Brady is the GOAT, but it's close with Montana. Montana's career passer rating + is 123 vs Brady's 117. Montana played all of his career in a much tougher environment for quarterbacks. But yes, he did have superlative talent around him in the pre-FA era, and Brady has sustained his success over a longer period.

 

[Yaz4Ever]

Hey Peyton, sing along. Tom Brady is better than meeeeee.

Sing along Peyton: Tom just got another ring (#Nationwidejingle)

 

[Leather]

Yay!

 

[johnmd20]

Sing along Peyton: Tom just got another ring (#Nationwidejingle)

 
Manning can have his chicken parm that tastes so good and his love of the new car smell. Brady has the rings. A lot of rings. I couldn't be happier.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I think you can make an argument either way with Brady v. Montana. I would have said the same if they lost.

BB is clearly the GOAT coach of the super bowl era.

 

[Leather]

Brady will likely win at least one more playoff game next year, to boot.
 
Sign Revis, draft another Guard and a DE, and go to work.

 

[Spacemans Bong]

I think you can make an argument either way with Brady v. Montana. I would have said the same if they lost.

BB is clearly the GOAT coach of the super bowl era.

 
With the caveat that I haven't watched the game yet (shotgunning too much vacation time for paternity leave to watch live), I would go with this.
 
I would still take Montana as my quarterback, but I absolutely believe Belichick to be the best football coach of all time. I would probably put him above Lombardi due to his ability to innovate on both sides of the ball.
 
Gronk is also the best tight end of all time, and that isn't even really close. 

 

[H78]

...and enter Malcolm Butler into the Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal at Wrestlemania 31.

 

[rodderick]

Tom Brady has won 21 playoff games. Second place (Montana) has 16. That record will never be broken, and he's not done either.

 

[luckiestman]

The thing about Brady and Belichick both being so good makes the argument for the other harder. I rate Joe Gibbs very highly because of his QBs being average. Same for Parcells and Hostetler(though that helps Belichick). It's subjective, Belichick is the best I've watched. But I think Gibbs and Walsh are right there too. Montana vs Brady is still a pick'em for me.

 

[Yaz4Ever]

 
With the caveat that I haven't watched the game yet (shotgunning too much vacation time for paternity leave to watch live), I would go with this.
 
I would still take Montana as my quarterback, but I absolutely believe Belichick to be the best football coach of all time. I would probably put him above Lombardi due to his ability to innovate on both sides of the ball.
 
Gronk is also the best tight end of all time, and that isn't even really close. 

Obviously can't be proven, but I'm 100% certain that had Gronk been healthy all along Tom would have 2 more rings.

 

[Seels]

One of the things I love about this is how it just crushes the Brady / Manning argument. That's done.
 
Brady just beat what is essentially the same team that wasted the Broncos last year and won against against them this year. Manning was pathetic against them last year. Brady just threw for 74% and 300 yards against them.
 
Manning has 9 one and dones, Brady has 9 AFCCG appearances.

 

[Jnai]

Tom Brady has won 21 playoff games. Second place (Montana) has 16. That record will never be broken, and he's not done either.

 
When someone wins 22 playoff games, 5 titles, and 7 title game appearances, I'd gladly hand over the crown.
 
Until then, it's not even really a debate.

 

[ypioca]

 

[Toe Nash]

The o line is still potentially a problem with an injury or two. Brady could decline enough to matter. Buffalo could kill the draft and a fluky game or two puts them ahead of us. There's no talent decline but Brady throws 2-3 picks and/or some fumbles happen and/or kick returns upset us in the first round of the playoffs.

I like our chances much as anyone, and I love our management; I'm mostly optimistic. But it's not difficult to imagine circumstances where the team declines enough or had bad enough luck to have an early playoff exit or possibly miss the playoffs. The 2007 team could've fluked an early playoff exit.

Go away

 

[Laser Show]

Lol Indiana

 

[rodderick]

Lol Indiana

 
You have to be a special kind of dumb to vote "not top 3".

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

There are plenty of "the drives" in NFL history. Has any QB, needing two scores with two likely possessions left, ever engineered two back to back on the last two possessions to win a SB? I sure can't remember it. Maybe in a Conference Championship? Down ten, with time for two more possessions in the Super Bowl and you put up 14-16 with like 130 yards and two TDs? That makes the FG in 2001 look like cub scout shit.

There's no fucking debate. The debate is over. Put it on trivial pusuit cards. Put it on Jeopardy. GOAT? Who is Tom Fucking Brady, Alex.

 

[Stevie1der]

 
You have to be a special kind of dumb to vote "not top 3".

 
well, come on as an Indy fan who do you kick out of your top three to make room for Brady?  Peyton Manning? Johnny Unitas?  Jeff George?

 

[JMDurron]

Tom Brady has won 21 playoff games. Second place (Montana) has 16. That record will never be broken, and he's not done either.

 
The playoffs will expand one day, and someone will end up breaking the record.  That doesn't change the underlying argument for Tom Brady as the Greatest NFL QB of All Time, though, it just means that "never" is a stretch.  

 

[johnmd20]

Lol Indiana

 
Washington. LOL BOO HOO.

 

[SMU_Sox]

I think there are seven or eight QBs in the discussion and I realize most of them played recently but I think the QB position is more important to the game now than it was in the 70's.
 
This is in no particular order:
 
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Brett Favre (I thought he took too many risks)
4. Joe Montana 
5. Dan Marino (No ring and wasn't always sharp in the playoffs either but that doesn't mean he wasn't a historically great QB)
6. John Elway 
7. Fran Tarkenton (3 huge collapses in the Super Bowl)
8. Drew Brees (outside looking in - he plays for a dome team that is focused on passing so his raw numbers are somewhat inflated)
 
All of these guys have post season raw numbers too. Brady has a ridiculous QB rating for a guy who plays no dome teams in his division, plays often in harsh conditions, and is often playing a stacked schedule.

 

[Bernie Carbohydrate]

 
You have to be a special kind of dumb to vote "not top 3".

 
State of Indiana GOAT QB List
 
1.  Peyton
2.  Luck
3.  Peyton again.. uh,  Jim Harbaugh
4.  Jeff George

 

[Ralphwiggum]

13-15 124 yards and 2TDs in the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl against the #1 defense in the league.

 

[Eric1984]

I guess Wisconsin goes 1. Starr, 2. Favre, 3. Rodgers, 4. Lynn Dickey, 5. Majkowski, ...100. Bledsoe, 101. Brady?

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Guess who has as many rings as Peyton Manning?
 
JIMMY G BABY

 
And Randall Gay has more than Peyton.

 

[Eric1984]

I think there are seven or eight QBs in the discussion and I realize most of them played recently but I think the QB position is more important to the game now than it was in the 70's.
 
This is in no particular order:
 
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Brett Favre (I thought he took too many risks)
4. Joe Montana 
5. Dan Marino (No ring and wasn't always sharp in the playoffs either but that doesn't mean he wasn't a historically great QB)
6. John Elway 
7. Fran Tarkenton (3 huge collapses in the Super Bowl)
8. Drew Brees (outside looking in - he plays for a dome team that is focused on passing so his raw numbers are somewhat inflated)

 
I hate the Cowboys but I think if you're going to include Brees and Tarkenton, you have to put Staubach in the discussion, especially when you consider that he didn't take his first NFL snap until he was 27. 2 SB victories and a Jackie Smith drop away from a 3rd. And Super Bowl X could have easily gone the other way too.

 

[SMU_Sox]

 
I hate the Cowboys but I think if you're going to include Brees and Tarkenton, you have to put Staubach in the discussion, especially when you consider that he didn't take his first NFL snap until he was 27. 2 SB victories and a Jackie Smith drop away from a 3rd. And Super Bowl X could have easily gone the other way too.

 
He didn't play as long, his QB rating isn't spectacular even though for his era it was impressive. He also is 84th on total yards. 78th for TD passes. His 153-109 TD-INT ratio is decent for the era but, again, just not enough years. Rings are great... but they can't make up for the lack of playing time.

 

[GregHarris]

I am probably jaded, but Favre doesn't crack my top 10. Imho, his risky style of play cost them more than helped em.

 

[Carlos Cowart]

 
You have to be a special kind of dumb to vote "not top 3".

Go to theganggreen if you want a good laugh.

 

[loshjott]

Lol Indiana

 
Delaware's an odd one. I mean after Joe Flacco and Rich Gannon you gotta choose Brady, right?

 

[SMU_Sox]

I am probably jaded, but Favre doesn't crack my top 10. Imho, his risky style of play cost them more than helped em.

 
To me he's on the outside of the top 5 but in the top 10 because of his raw numbers.
Favre has 45 game winning drives. That's impressive.
Favre though has an interception % of 3.3%... that's not good. Brady is #2 all time at 2.0%.

 

[Eric1984]

Where would you put Fouts, Kelly and Young? Fouts had huge weapons (Joiner, Winslow) and played in a great system but never had the benefit of a championship caliber defense. Kelly led his team to 4 SBs and his career numbers are excellent, especially when you consider what he might have done during the 3 years he spent in the USFL. I guess Young is hurt by the same longevity argument as Staubach -- he wasted too many years in the USFL or sitting behind Montana. But I'd still take either Kelly or Young over Brees. Not really old enough to remember Tarkenton that well -- the first Super Bowl I remember watching in its entirety was XI and the Raiders destroyed him.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

I agree that Brady is the GOAT, but it's close with Montana. Montana's career passer rating + is 123 vs Brady's 117. Montana played all of his career in a much tougher environment for quarterbacks. But yes, he did have superlative talent around him in the pre-FA era, and Brady has sustained his success over a longer period.

How much credit does Brady get for not having the greatest WR of all time to throw to? Can you imagine if Brady had Jerry Rice to throw to all these years? I think he might have 7 SB rings.

 

[Eric1984]

He'd have at least 5 if he had a healthy Gronk in 2010 and maybe 6 if he had a healthy Gronk last year (though I still doubt that last year's defense could have handled last year's Seahawks offense. But it would have been a closer game than what Denver put up).

 

[JimD]

The thing about Brady and Belichick both being so good makes the argument for the other harder. I rate Joe Gibbs very highly because of his QBs being average. Same for Parcells and Hostetler(though that helps Belichick). It's subjective, Belichick is the best I've watched. But I think Gibbs and Walsh are right there too. Montana vs Brady is still a pick'em for me.

 
Belichick may have the greatest NFL QB ever at his disposal, but he excels at finding and utilizing rosters loaded with role players, castoffs, overlooked guys, etc. and preparing them for the moment.