The Last Dance

McBride11

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John Salley - of movie Bad Boys fame - calling out current ref star ball washing. Good stuff.

And right @ifmanis5 - given the current NBA, one forgets how brutal Laimbeer / Mahorn / Salley / Rodman / Dumars were.
 

canderson

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“If you’re getting ready for work this morning, you’re not Doug Collins.” Holy shit.
 
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Kliq

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What if question...if Dean Smith decides he wants another Championship...who does NY select in 1985? Ewing or Jordan?
Ewing at the time was one of the five best prospects to ever enter the NBA. He would have gone first in almost any draft up until that point in time. It is possible that MJ could have balled out at UNC, averaged 30 a game and won the championship, but that is unlikely. Smith's system simply wouldn't allow an individual player, let alone a guard, dominate the game as that kind of singular force, even if it was Jordan. His junior year he only averaged 19 ppg, and at the time, the convential wisdom was that you really needed a big man to win in the NBA. Up until that point in time, almost every NBA champion (Mikan, Pettit, Russell, Chamberlain, Cowens, Kareem, Walton, Unseld, Moses, Mchale/Parish) had a dominant big man).

Not sure if the documentary mentions this because I only saw the first two episodes, but there is an old NBA rumor that in the 84 draft, Houston wasn't sure if Olajuwon and Sampson could play together, and they were enamored with Jordan. They reportedly had a proposed trade that would have sent Sampson to Portland for the #2 pick and Clyde Drexler (at the time, Sampson was considered the best young asset in the league) which would have set Houston up with Hakeem, Jordan and Clyde, but Portland backed out and ended up taking Bowie.
 

ifmanis5

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As usual, Isiah gets it twisted. Yes, the Celtics left early in Game 6 of the ECF, but there was only :03 seconds on the clock and a riot was already breaking out as seen below:
View: https://youtu.be/oRqkFQnGZaQ?t=6766


In those days it was common for the crowd to storm the court and anything could happen. The Celtics were the road team and wanted to get the hell out of there before bedlum broke out, which it kind of did. Daly has to be escorted out. It's the same reason they close off the court very quickly during the finals now.
In the Pistons case during the Jordan game, they were at home with no fear of being of being trampled by a road crowd. He's making shitty excuses because he's a clown and the Pistons were a trash team.
 

nattysez

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Seeing Reggie Lewis on the court briefly was a punch to the gut.

On the plus side, watching tonight led me to show my kids some YouTube videos of Johnny Most screaming about the Pistons. Good times.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This series is so well done. The music alone is great - well known popular artists like Prince and the Beasties using deeper cuts - but the action, the interviews and the vibe all do a fantastic job of putting you back into the late 80s and 90s.

Jordan saying how he knew he didn't want to hear what Rodman had to tell him was hilarious.

As a side note, I would love someone to do a documentary on dominant athletes like Jordan, Serena, Lebron, Federer, Brady and even someone like Kelly Slater (who reminds me a lot of Jordan in terms of his competitiveness to the point where it came before almost all of their personal relationships). Maybe it would only appeal to me but I would be fascinated by watching it.
 

Ale Xander

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I hate, hate, hate the Pistons.

This documentary should forever put to rest who the best player in history is. LeBron can't carry Jordan's jock.
Yup. Can you imagine the whining if he had the Pistons play with the Lebron rules against him

Eras are so different
 

Kliq

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This series is so well done. The music alone is great - well known popular artists like Prince and the Beasties using deeper cuts - but the action, the interviews and the vibe all do a fantastic job of putting you back into the late 80s and 90s.

Jordan saying how he knew he didn't want to hear what Rodman had to tell him was hilarious.

As a side note, I would love someone to do a documentary on dominant athletes like Jordan, Serena, Lebron, Federer, Brady and even someone like Kelly Slater (who reminds me a lot of Jordan in terms of his competitiveness to the point where it came before almost all of their personal relationships). Maybe it would only appeal to me but I would be fascinated by watching it.
Sam Walker wrote a book a few years ago called The Captain Class which tried to identify why certain teams were so dominant, and focuses on the individual leaders of those teams and what made them tick, and exchanges similarities in their personalities. It is an interesting concept and worth a read if you have the time, although at certain points Walker made my head explode with some truly dreadful takes and analysis.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Sam Walker wrote a book a few years ago called The Captain Class which tried to identify why certain teams were so dominant, and focuses on the individual leaders of those teams and what made them tick, and exchanges similarities in their personalities. It is an interesting concept and worth a read if you have the time, although at certain points Walker made my head explode with some truly dreadful takes and analysis.
Thank you, I will definitely check it out.

One other thing to note for me is that Krause comes off poorly in this thus far and some of it is well deserved. However the guy was good at roster construction and was thoughtful enough to find progressive coaches in Winter as well as Jackson. However his best quality was ahead of its time. He wasn't afraid to make bold moves including blowing a team up. Like anyone, he had his flaws but he never stood pat.
 

67YAZ

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Thank you, I will definitely check it out.

One other thing to note for me is that Krause comes off poorly in this thus far and some of it is well deserved. However the guy was good at roster construction and was thoughtful enough to find progressive coaches in Winter as well as Jackson. However his best quality was ahead of its time. He wasn't afraid to make bold moves including blowing a team up. Like anyone, he had his flaws but he never stood pat.
Well, Jerry is going to get a chance to defend himself starting Monday. NBCsports.com will be publishing selections from Krause’s unfinished, unpublished memoir. Jerry has a huge ego, so I’m willing to bet he was delving right into the juicy stuff with a point to make.
 

CantKeepmedown

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As usual, Isiah gets it twisted. Yes, the Celtics left early in Game 6 of the ECF, but there was only :03 seconds on the clock and a riot was already breaking out as seen below:
View: https://youtu.be/oRqkFQnGZaQ?t=6766


In those days it was common for the crowd to storm the court and anything could happen. The Celtics were the road team and wanted to get the hell out of there before bedlum broke out, which it kind of did. Daly has to be escorted out. It's the same reason they close off the court very quickly during the finals now.
In the Pistons case during the Jordan game, they were at home with no fear of being of being trampled by a road crowd. He's making shitty excuses because he's a clown and the Pistons were a trash team.
Yup. Jon Jennings, who was an scout at the time, confirms


Watching The Last Dance. Isiah was dead wrong about the Celtics walking off the court in 1988. Coaches had Larry, Kevin, Robert, and DJ leave due to security concerns. Thousands rushed the floor at the Silverdome after we lost. It had nothing to do with losing the series.
 

wonderland

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Interesting from Magic: I played against the best, Larry, now I'll get a chance against Michael. Left Isiah off that list.
not really. Bird andJordan are two of the greatest players ever. Thomas doesn’t belong anywhere near them in an all-time great discussion.
 

johnmd20

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Different brand of hoops back then. The Eastern conference in the 80s was intense and physical and most of the stuff wasn't called. I loved it.
BS. The Pistons were cheap shot artists. They weren't playing "hard". They were dirty. Fuck them.

To this day, fuck that team. You can't just punch every player who goes into the lane, I don't care if it was the 80s or the 50s. The Knicks in the 90s played hard. They weren't cheap shot assholes.

Detroit was dirty. I only wish the worst things for Bill Lamebeer. What a piece of garbage. If nothin else, this document highlights how lousy and cheap the Pistons were.

The "BAD BOYS". More like the absolute turds.
 

Jim Ed Rice in HOF

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BS. The Pistons were cheap shot artists. They weren't playing "hard". They were dirty. Fuck them.

To this day, fuck that team. You can't just punch every player who goes into the lane, I don't care if it was the 80s or the 50s. The Knicks in the 90s played hard. They weren't cheap shot assholes.

Detroit was dirty. I only wish the worst things for Bill Lamebeer. What a piece of garbage. If nothin else, this document highlights how lousy and cheap the Pistons were.

The "BAD BOYS". More like the absolute turds.
Lakers counterpoint:
 

johnmd20

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Out of all of Jordan's greatness, out of all his incredible moments, that shot against Cleveland is definitely one of the most overrated.

It was round 1. I think it was Ehlo's reaction that made that clip as famous as it is. Him crumpling to the floor was an iconic visual.
 

lexrageorge

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There were plenty of stuff going on by both Boston and LA by the time of the McHale/Rambis play. McHale's play was reckless, but it's not clear that he had ever intended to throw him to the floor. From watching the video, it seemed as if he was first attempting to foul by interfering with Rambis' arm; if there were breakaway fouls back then, they were very rarely called. Then McHale got carried away and ended up with his arm around Rambis' chest while Rambis kept going toward the basket, and a fracas ensued.

The Pistons went way out of their way to be cheap shot artists.
 

bankshot1

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BS. The Pistons were cheap shot artists. They weren't playing "hard". They were dirty. Fuck them.

To this day, fuck that team. You can't just punch every player who goes into the lane, I don't care if it was the 80s or the 50s. The Knicks in the 90s played hard. They weren't cheap shot assholes.

Detroit was dirty. I only wish the worst things for Bill Lamebeer. What a piece of garbage. If nothin else, this document highlights how lousy and cheap the Pistons were.

The "BAD BOYS". More like the absolute turds.
Agreed the Pistons played dirty and to the edge, and I hated that team but they were talented and very good and had several very skilled players. And they won championships. IMO The 90s knicks, under the tutelage of a very smart and opportunistic coach, pushed that hard and dirty edge to far to compensate for, other than Ewing, a lack of basketball talent, and as previously posted, they sucked a lot of beauty out of the game. And as a long time basketball fan found it close to unwatchable.

It was ugly basketball.

However from personal experience I understand Knick fans enjoyed it and to today consider it one of the few highlights of the franchise's history.

I'm glad you enjoyed it.
 

johnmd20

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Agreed the Pistons played dirty and to the edge, and I hated that team but they were talented and very good and had several very skilled players. And they won championships. IMO The 90s knicks, under the tutelage of a very smart and opportunistic coach, pushed that hard and dirty edge to far to compensate for, other than Ewing, a lack of basketball talent, and as previously posted, they sucked a lot of beauty out of the game. And as a long time basketball fan found it close to unwatchable.

It was ugly basketball.

However from personal experience I understand Knick fans enjoyed it and to today consider it one of the few highlights of the franchise's history.

I'm glad you enjoyed it.
The Knicks in the 90s (especially the latter half of the 90s were ugly and unwatchable. It was certainly not the best the NBA offered and I can't say I enjoyed it. But their entire existence didn't center around punching people in the lane. The Pistons were unassailably a team that revolved around trying to hurt people.

Sure, they had a ton of talent and won NBA titles. Respect to Isiah, who was absolutely tremendous. But it was the ugliest of basketball. It was a team of Wades.
 

bankshot1

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The Knicks in the 90s (especially the latter half of the 90s were ugly and unwatchable. It was certainly not the best the NBA offered and I can't say I enjoyed it. But their entire existence didn't center around punching people in the lane. The Pistons were unassailably a team that revolved around trying to hurt people.

Sure, they had a ton of talent and won NBA titles. Respect to Isiah, who was absolutely tremendous. But it was the ugliest of basketball. It was a team of Wades.
Pistons were more than Isiah, they were stocked with HoF and all-star talent. And they played with an edge and at times played over the edge, but they were really very good. And I'm not sure they tried to hurrt people as they were somewhat indifferent. But watching the post-season battles in the East during the 80s, there was that presence of physicality and total disdain for your opponent. We saw it with Celts-76ers, then Celts-Pistons, then Pistons-Bulls. It was very hard physical, let 'em play hoops with a lot of Hof talent.

I found it hugely entertaining and the NBA at its best.
 

johnmd20

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Pistons were more than Isiah, they were stocked with HoF and all-star talent. And they played with an edge and at times played over the edge, but they were really very good. And I'm not sure they tried to hurrt people as they were somewhat indifferent. But watching the post-season battles in the East during the 80s, there was that presence of physicality and total disdain for your opponent. We saw it with Celts-76ers, then Celts-Pistons, then Pistons-Bulls. It was very hard physical, let 'em play hoops with a lot of Hof talent.

I found it hugely entertaining and the NBA at its best.
Horace Grant said it better than I can about the character and quality of that team. As did Michael.
 

bankshot1

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Horace Grant said it better than I can about the character and quality of that team. As did Michael.
And Marshall Faulk still accuses the Pats of taping the Rams walk through.

I'm not attesting to nor defending the Pistons character, they played to the edge and I hated those teams. But they were very good and used that hard nasty edge to their benefit.

And they kicked the Bulls asses for years.

And those asses are still sore.