The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

Harry Hooper

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Is there anybody out there (other than Cam) who can play at all?
Trade for Minshew?

If the coaches want Mac to throw a bunch of "50-50" balls, is there a rule of thumb for the expected outcomes, such as 1/3 completed, 1/3 incomplete, and 1/3 intercepted?
 

BaseballJones

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Trade for Minshew?

If the coaches want Mac to throw a bunch of "50-50" balls, is there a rule of thumb for the expected outcomes, such as 1/3 completed, 1/3 incomplete, and 1/3 intercepted?
I would guess a lot more than 1/3 would be incomplete. I'd guess it would be something like 25% catch, 25% INT, and 50% incomplete or something like that. Because two guys fighting for the ball, there's going to be contact, hand fighting, both guys trying to catch it and/or stripping the other guy of it.

But I easily could be wrong about that.

Actually, thinking about it a little more, I'd guess that there's a much higher percent chance of a completion than an interception, in part due to the fact that most DBs are not as good at catching the ball as WRs (or else they'd probably be WRs in the first place), and also due to the fact that the WRs know what pass is coming. So maybe more like: 35% catch, 15% int, 50% incomplete? I dunno, I'm just guessing here, I admit.
 

Al Zarilla

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Does anyone have any idea of the longest time a QB went between wins? Maybe the Pats can set a record this year?

Edit: Nope. Vince Evans won a game in 1987 and again in 1995. Hoyer last won in 2016.

The Lombardi criticism is why I am down on Mac. (I don't mean the speculation about benching, I mean the fact the fact that Mac is more careless and error-prone than any starting QB we have seen here going back to pre-Parcells).
Is it possible that Mac's coaches told him "ok, you've been a very vanilla quarterback so far and you've led us to some victories, now we want you to try a bit more of the devil may care, even Brett Favre style." Let's just see what we may have here, because we're not going to win any super bowls with the plain vanilla style. And, he went too far for, what, one and a fraction of a game?
 

DJnVa

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Is it possible that Mac's coaches told him "ok, you've been a very vanilla quarterback so far and you've led us to some victories, now we want you to try a bit more of the devil may care, even Brett Favre style." Let's just see what we may have here, because we're not going to win any super bowls with the plain vanilla style. And, he went too far for, what, one and a fraction of a game?
I don't think it's quite Favre-style, but I do think they're trying to add that to his game, and if it was something that had 0 additional risk then every QB would do it. It's higher risk, higher reward. I dont think we're at the Rex Grossman "fuck it, I'm throwing deep" here, but the only way to see if he can do it is to do it.
 

CreightonGubanich

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The optimistic take is that Mac proved last year that he can be the game manager, Captain Checkdown type quarterback; but he was criticized a lot last year for leaving a lot of opportunities on the table, not taking enough shots down the field. Now he's doing that, hopefully at the urging of his coaches, and there's some predictable growing pains. Maybe he can figure out how to balance risk/reward, and minimize the turnovers; maybe he can't, and the coaching staff will have to stress ball security at the expense of those downfield throws because Mac just can't process enough information post-snap to make the right decision.

To draw a tortured analogy, it's a little bit like Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown trying to figure out who they can be as playmakers last season. Sure, there's a ton of turnovers, but it's a growth process that's going to have to happen if the team wants to realize its full potential.

The issues that we saw last week from Mac are at least theoretically correctable, even if you're not optimistic he can actually do so. I've been down on Mac, but I have to admit I was encouraged by the way the offense moved the ball and some of the intermediate throws Mac made last week.
 

radsoxfan

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Actually, thinking about it a little more, I'd guess that there's a much higher percent chance of a completion than an interception, in part due to the fact that most DBs are not as good at catching the ball as WRs (or else they'd probably be WRs in the first place), and also due to the fact that the WRs know what pass is coming. So maybe more like: 35% catch, 15% int, 50% incomplete? I dunno, I'm just guessing here, I admit.
Yeah, let’s not take the term ”50/50 ball” too literally.

Clearly there is a way higher chance of a catch than an interception or you would never threw these passes (except maybe 4th down with no one else open).

The defender is usually retreating, sometimes not even looking at the ball. These are not NBA jump balls… the vast majority of the time it should be incomplete or an offensive catch.
 

BaseballJones

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The optimistic take is that Mac proved last year that he can be the game manager, Captain Checkdown type quarterback; but he was criticized a lot last year for leaving a lot of opportunities on the table, not taking enough shots down the field. Now he's doing that, hopefully at the urging of his coaches, and there's some predictable growing pains. Maybe he can figure out how to balance risk/reward, and minimize the turnovers; maybe he can't, and the coaching staff will have to stress ball security at the expense of those downfield throws because Mac just can't process enough information post-snap to make the right decision.

To draw a tortured analogy, it's a little bit like Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown trying to figure out who they can be as playmakers last season. Sure, there's a ton of turnovers, but it's a growth process that's going to have to happen if the team wants to realize its full potential.

The issues that we saw last week from Mac are at least theoretically correctable, even if you're not optimistic he can actually do so. I've been down on Mac, but I have to admit I was encouraged by the way the offense moved the ball and some of the intermediate throws Mac made last week.
He made some catastrophic errors on Sunday.

He also made some FANTASTIC throws. Especially on all the long gains. Those weren't just spectacular catches on poorly thrown balls. He threw some absolute DIMES on long passes. He showed some real ability there.

These are just highlights - which of course is going to make him look good. Oddly it doesn't include the beautiful strike to Agholor at the end (when Agholor fumbled), which was another perfect pass. But watch this - he threw some beautiful passes here on long gains.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jqeAaYLYHY
 

SoxInTheMist

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Yeah, let’s not take the term ”50/50 ball” too literally.

Clearly there is a way higher chance of a catch than an interception or you would never threw these passes (except maybe 4th down with no one else open).

The defender is usually retreating, sometimes not even looking at the ball. These are not NBA jump balls… the vast majority of the time it should be incomplete or an offensive catch.
Yep. And there's a reason that the guys are on the defensive side - if they could catch the ball they'd play offense.
 

Jimbodandy

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The optimistic take is that Mac proved last year that he can be the game manager, Captain Checkdown type quarterback; but he was criticized a lot last year for leaving a lot of opportunities on the table, not taking enough shots down the field. Now he's doing that, hopefully at the urging of his coaches, and there's some predictable growing pains. Maybe he can figure out how to balance risk/reward, and minimize the turnovers; maybe he can't, and the coaching staff will have to stress ball security at the expense of those downfield throws because Mac just can't process enough information post-snap to make the right decision.

To draw a tortured analogy, it's a little bit like Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown trying to figure out who they can be as playmakers last season. Sure, there's a ton of turnovers, but it's a growth process that's going to have to happen if the team wants to realize its full potential.

The issues that we saw last week from Mac are at least theoretically correctable, even if you're not optimistic he can actually do so. I've been down on Mac, but I have to admit I was encouraged by the way the offense moved the ball and some of the intermediate throws Mac made last week.
That's a damn good analogy IMO.

He took off the training wheels and dumped his bike a couple of times. But riding around with training wheels forever really isn't sustainable.

The Jays both had career highs in turnover% and assist% last year (also usage). There are expected bumps in the road. Being surprised by them is not a good reason to panic.
 

Bigdogx

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Man Bill is sounding as chipper as ever at today's press conference haha.:p

I wonder how ugly it is going to get between him and the media before the year is done. He seems to already be in GFY mode during these pressors.
 

BigJimEd

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Anyone else slightly surprised Mac hasn't been out on IR yet? I guess day by day it is.
 
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cshea

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306, row 14

BusRaker

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Game plan is for Mac to ride on Cole Strange's shoulders against GB

Hey ... it might be more effective than Hoyer
 

Van Everyman

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Anyone else slightly surprised Mac hasn't been out on IR yet? I guess day by day it is.
I'm sure he's out several weeks, but beyond the "day-to-day" Bill was using to answer questions today, I thought it was somewhat interesting Bill said the gameplan would be something Mac could do "with minimal practice time if that's what it is."

View: https://twitter.com/MarkDanielsPJ/status/1575160570080370688?s=20&t=GvyIUGfGLScWpNhMYPXYTw
Everyone's pointing to the "day-by-day" stuff--Florio and Sims spent a bunch of time on how silly they think it is the other day--but I was more interested in Bill saying Mac "probably won't practice today." I mean, yeah, in one respect it's typical Bill gamesmanship that commits him to nothing. But it also seems to go beyond the usual generalities and pablum to suggest that Mac could actually play this Sunday, which seems almost impossible based on literally everything else we've heard.

Is it gamesmanship with the Packers? Is it Bill trying to send a message to those who questioned Mac's toughness? Is it just him enjoying torturing the media? Inquiring minds want to know!
 

Ferm Sheller

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Everyone's pointing to the "day-by-day" stuff--Florio and Sims spent a bunch of time on how silly they think it is the other day--but I was more interested in Bill saying Mac "probably won't practice today." I mean, yeah, in one respect it's typical Bill gamesmanship that commits him to nothing. But it also seems to go beyond the usual generalities and pablum to suggest that Mac could actually play this Sunday, which seems almost impossible based on literally everything else we've heard.

Is it gamesmanship with the Packers? Is it Bill trying to send a message to those who questioned Mac's toughness? Is it just him enjoying torturing the media? Inquiring minds want to know!
I think that he's just trying to piss off Eric Hanson's Hook.
 

radsoxfan

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If Mac is playing Sunday 1 of these 2 must be true:

1. He does not have a “severe high ankle sprain” as initially reported

2. He’s insane and for some reason no one can stop him


I will say that since he’s now reportedly seen multiple docs and still has not had surgery, that would lean towards surgery not being the first line of treatment here.

No reason to delay the surgery, tightrope or whatever else, if he’s unstable and needs surgery.
 

Ferm Sheller

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I have to say, if he plays on Sunday, this just might be the most bizarre injury-related event in the history of sports (or at least up there with Pierce in the wheelchair).
 

Harry Hooper

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If Mac is playing Sunday 1 of these 2 must be true:

1. He does not have a “severe high ankle sprain” as initially reported

2. He’s insane and for some reason no one can stop him


I will say that since he’s now reportedly seen multiple docs and still has not had surgery, that would lean towards surgery not being the first line of treatment here.

No reason to delay the surgery, tightrope or whatever else, if he’s unstable and needs surgery.
FWIW, when I watch the replay of the injury, it just looks more like a low-ankle sprain than a high-ankle sprain to me. Of course, I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
 

radsoxfan

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FWIW, when I watch the replay of the injury, it just looks more like a low-ankle sprain than a high-ankle sprain to me. Of course, I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Hope that’s true but didn’t match what I saw or with the reports.

Typical low ankle sprain the outside of your ankle rolls over, as in when you land on someone’s foot in basketball. I only saw one replay but this didn’t look like that to me.

If the reports about the severity were over blown, it could be more of a partial tear they feel is clinically stable. In that case, it’s still not a 1 week return to play type of injury but who knows.

Maybe a road game in GB feels like this years Super Bowl to Mac. At bare minimum, have to imagine his mobility would be very limited and he would be a sitting duck back there.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Or he has the same ankles as Marcus Smart.
Yeah, I don't recall all of the details of Smart's ankle injury, but were there reports that he was contemplating surgery (and at odds with C's management about the same), and that he was looking at "6-8 weeks out of action" as a best case scenario?
 

Jimbodandy

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Hope that’s true but didn’t match what I saw or with the reports.

Typical low ankle sprain the outside of your ankle rolls over, as in when you land on someone’s foot in basketball. I only saw one replay but this didn’t look like that to me.

If the reports about the severity were over blown, it could be more of a partial tear they feel is clinically stable. In that case, it’s still not a 1 week return to play type of injury but who knows.

Maybe a road game in GB feels like this years Super Bowl to Mac. At bare minimum, have to imagine his mobility would be very limited and he would be a sitting duck back there.
Question--I've done the typical ankle sprain a shitload of times, but actually had my ankle overextend once the other way (sliding into a raised home plate in Lawrence--don't play softball there). Basically toes caught home during a slide and foot moved laterally (I guess), while the rest of my lower leg and body continued forward. Instead of a pigeon toed formation, it was duck footed. Hurt like a bastard but only for a couple of days, and the pain was medial. Google MD says that's a sprain of the deltoid ligament. Is this a possibility?

edit: apologies if it sounds like wishcasting. Just curious really if you see these.
 

radsoxfan

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Question--I've done the typical ankle sprain a shitload of times, but actually had my ankle overextend once the other way (sliding into a raised home plate in Lawrence--don't play softball there). Basically toes caught home during a slide and foot moved laterally (I guess), while the rest of my lower leg and body continued forward. Instead of a pigeon toed formation, it was duck footed. Hurt like a bastard but only for a couple of days, and the pain was medial. Google MD says that's a sprain of the deltoid ligament. Is this a possibility?

edit: apologies if it sounds like wishcasting. Just curious really if you see these.
Certainly possible.

We group the ankle ligaments into 3 groups (then we talk about a few of the ligaments in each group when there are injuries).

1. Syndesmotic (“high ankle sprain”)
2. Low Lateral (“low ankle sprain”)
3. Deltoid (“medial ankle sprain”)

Often there are multiple injuries combined. Mac probably has some deltoid injury along with the high ankle sprain. Yours might have been predominantly deltoid, but a combo of things too.
 
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brandonchristensen

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There's no way he's playing Sunday. Has to be the usual Pats gamesmanship.
As a fan, sometimes this gamesmanship is not fun to root for. If we are going to have no Mac for the rest of the year, I can be sure to not make their games must watch. But now I don't know.

I'm sure Green Bay is furious that they don't know. It's going to be the key to victory!
 

8slim

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As a fan, sometimes this gamesmanship is not fun to root for. If we are going to have no Mac for the rest of the year, I can be sure to not make their games must watch. But now I don't know.

I'm sure Green Bay is furious that they don't know. It's going to be the key to victory!
On one hand, I get it. Why give your opposition any more info than is absolutely necessary?

On the other, I've increasingly come to the conclusion that sports is entertainment and should operate in that manner. Withholding info that leads to better consumer decisions is typically frowned upon in the entertainment space.
 

NDame616

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Re: surgery vs non-surgery

Breer (yes I know) was on Beetle and Zo today and he said the players really don't like the "tightrope" surgery. Said its a tough surgery, defined it as "archaic" . He reiterated several times players really don't like this one.

Essentially said that if a player is given a non-surgery timeline close to ~4 weeks, they will opt against the surgery. Maybe Mac was initially given about a 5 week timeline and he didn't see it as a big enough gap to go under the knife.
 

radsoxfan

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Re: surgery vs non-surgery

Breer (yes I know) was on Beetle and Zo today and he said the players really don't like the "tightrope" surgery. Said its a tough surgery, defined it as "archaic" . He reiterated several times players really don't like this one.
It's pretty recent as far as orthopedic surgeries go. Not sure what's archaic about it, maybe it's the "rope" bugs people.

https://www.scoi.com/patient-resources/education/tightrope™-fixation-ankle-syndesmosis
 

Jimbodandy

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Certainly possible.

We group the ankle ligaments into 3 groups (then we talk about a few of the ligaments in each group when there are injuries).

1. Syndesmotic (“high ankle sprain”)
2. Low Lateral (“low ankle sprain”)
3. Deltoid (“medial ankle sprain”)

Often there are multiple injuries combined. Mac probably has some deltoid injury along with the high ankle sprain. Yours might have been predominantly deltoid, but a combo of things too.
Thanks. That makes sense.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Do “journalists” actually ask BB injury questions expecting an answer? Or are they asking so they have something they can complain about in their column ? Maybe that is a question for Reiss
 

SoxInTheMist

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Do “journalists” actually ask BB injury questions expecting an answer? Or are they asking so they have something they can complain about in their column ? Maybe that is a question for Reiss
No, they expect some sort of show which then gives them their article or sound bite or whatever. And when they do get that sound bite they play right along and ask as many similar questions as possible to keep generating the same response. A tennis game as it were where they keep tapping the ball back and forth over the net to each other.
 

BusRaker

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Hobbled Mac versus Hoyer? Mac made a lot of plays with his feet last week that pocket passers would have thrown into the stands
 

Marciano490

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Wolverine-like healing ability is the new market inefficiency. Still, and heads and feet are different, after last night I’d hope our franchise QB is very conservative in pushing himself to get back out there Sunday.
 

Toe Nash

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Unless he's really made a magical recovery I don't see the point of doing this for a non-conference game that you're an underdog in regardless when you presumably want to have a useful Mac the rest of the season. If they win in GB it will be because the defense and running games have a big day I would think regardless of who the QB is.

The follow-up tweet from Reiss said he wasn't really moving around and was basically playing catch, although reporters were not able to see the whole practice.