The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

Justthetippett

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I’m paywall blocked on the Herald story. What treatment would possibly address this so quickly? Feels a little icky with the Tua situation, and like he’d be taking a lot of risk.
 

cshea

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brandonchristensen

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I mean...if it's a serious injury, this kind of gamesmanship is absolutely insane.

So it can't be as bad as we thought.
 
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Guys, I could be wrong, but this is ridiculous. He's not playing. They care a LOT about making GB prepare for even one minute more than they might otherwise have to. They're a full go on the ruse. This, despite the fact that the difference in prep work for Mac vs. prep work for Hoyer is minimal (regardless of the gulf of talent levels between them.) I'm sure there's some truth in the idea of Mac responding well to treatment, and that's swell, but biting down hard on this organization's well established commitment to keeping everyone in the dark for as long as possible is silly.
 

brandonchristensen

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Guys, I could be wrong, but this is ridiculous. He's not playing. They care a LOT about making GB prepare for even one minute more than they might otherwise have to. They're a full go on the ruse. This, despite the fact that the difference in prep work for Mac vs. prep work for Hoyer is minimal (regardless of the gulf of talent levels between them.) I'm sure there's some truth in the idea of Mac responding well to treatment, and that's swell, but biting down hard on this organization's well established commitment to keeping everyone in the dark for as long as possible is silly.
Putting his ankle at risk for subterfuge would be the absolute height of bad coaching.
 
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Is it impossible to believe that he's able to walk out and BARELY MOVE AROUND during practice, and that that isn't putting it at risk? I just think it's absolutely ludicrous to believe he might play this weekend. Like I said, I could be wrong. But it's what they do, what they've done for literal decades, and this could be NOT RISKY but still moronic.
 

8slim

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This strikes me as being more gamesmanship. Let's hope it isn't coming at the expense of giving Hoyer or Zappe reps in practice.
 

BigJimEd

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Strikes me as Mac wanting to be on field with teammates and med staff said fine with these conditions
 

Shelterdog

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Not bad for Mac's stature on the team I think if he "wanted to go" and was willing to play one week after a high ankle sprain and BB wouldn't clear him
 

radsoxfan

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At least he is not on crutches/in a boot.

Surgery seems unlikely at this point, so I'm guessing after a few opinions they feel it's somewhat milder/more stable version of a high ankle sprain than was initially reported.

Still seems extraordinarily unlikely we will see him play this week or the next few weeks.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah, seems like it was a less severe sprain than feared originally, and they are having him go to walkthroughs and practice, which probably has some value to him if less than full participation. He won't play this week.
 

j44thor

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Teams have been fined in the past for this type of gamesmanship including Patricia in 19 as HC of the Lions. The NFL is beholden to Vegas more than any other entity and when teams list players as questionable that should be listed as out Vegas doesn't like that. Given the Patriots cozy relationship with Godell and co. I'm concerned they will come down hard on NE if Mac ends up missing the next 3 games but is listed as questionable each week. I could easily see them docking NE a mid round draft pick to prove a point.

Hope I'm wrong but this seems a lot like NE creating an unnecessary controversy.
 

lexrageorge

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Teams have been fined in the past for this type of gamesmanship including Patricia in 19 as HC of the Lions. The NFL is beholden to Vegas more than any other entity and when teams list players as questionable that should be listed as out Vegas doesn't like that. Given the Patriots cozy relationship with Godell and co. I'm concerned they will come down hard on NE if Mac ends up missing the next 3 games but is listed as questionable each week. I could easily see them docking NE a mid round draft pick to prove a point.

Hope I'm wrong but this seems a lot like NE creating an unnecessary controversy.
I don’t believe they’ve released the injury report yet.

EDIT: So far, they've listed Mac as Did Not Participate in Wednesday's and Thursday's practices. They will list him as Limited Participation for today. I am guessing they will list him as Doubtful for the game starting today; I'm just basing that on the reports he really didn't move much and that his ankles were heavily taped. But there's no real reason to list him as Out prior to today.
 
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cshea

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They released Wednesday and Thursday's but those just list practice participation (Mac was DNP both days). Today is when they add the game statuses. So I guess we'll see.

Feels like with sprains there's a lot of wiggle room and it would be very difficult for the league to prove any infractions.
 

54thMA

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Gronk suffered a high ankle sprain in the 2012 AFCCG vs the Ravens, did not hop off the field on one leg and carried down the stadium stairs howling in pain; but he was like a wounded rhino in the Super Bowl, was basically a decoy.

I can't see anyway Mac plays, the good news is as others have said, he's not in a boot or on crutches, so hopefully he's a fast healer, won't need surgery and will be out there in a couple of weeks.
 

j44thor

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They released Wednesday and Thursday's but those just list practice participation (Mac was DNP both days). Today is when they add the game statuses. So I guess we'll see.

Feels like with sprains there's a lot of wiggle room and it would be very difficult for the league to prove any infractions.
Forgot they only list status on Friday. Guess we will know soon enough.
 

brandonchristensen

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How much risk is it really? All reports say he's barely moving around.
I feel like any sort of standing on it is bizarre. What other team has done something like this (ignoring the Tua thing which is its own insanity).

This goes to the stupidity of how the Pats keep everything secret. We have heard 15 diagnoses on him and maybe they’re all wrong and Mac is fine. But the lack of information is so stupid.
 

cshea

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I feel like any sort of standing on it is bizarre. What other team has done something like this (ignoring the Tua thing which is its own insanity).

This goes to the stupidity of how the Pats keep everything secret. We have heard 15 diagnoses on him and maybe they’re all wrong and Mac is fine. But the lack of information is so stupid.
He has a sprained ankle. IANAD but I'm pretty sure you can stand and walk around on them. It's not like he needs to be wheelchair bound.

Edit: At this point, we don't know if he did anything more than stand there and lob a few balls around prior to practice. There's a big difference between doing that and participating in practice and taking live reps.
 

brandonchristensen

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He has a sprained ankle. IANAD but I'm pretty sure you can stand and walk around on them. It's not like he needs to be wheelchair bound.
Does he? We have Twitterverse diagnosing - but nothing official.

And do you want to risk him slipping and rolling the ankle? I don’t understand it.
 

SoxInTheMist

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I feel like any sort of standing on it is bizarre. What other team has done something like this (ignoring the Tua thing which is its own insanity).

This goes to the stupidity of how the Pats keep everything secret. We have heard 15 diagnoses on him and maybe they’re all wrong and Mac is fine. But the lack of information is so stupid.
EVERY NFL team handles injuries like this. No team is transparent on injuries. Now, excuse me while I sit down, I'm sidelined with a "lower body".
 

steveluck7

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I guess. I just see the teams that are playing the pats and feels pretty straight forward.
Do you play much fantasy? This type of thing seems somewhat commonplace when you see the “Q” near a player all week and keep checking, get vague updates and the player is a “game time decision.”
this is the starting QB of the team we follow most closely so we’re just hyper aware of everything.
 

j44thor

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Do you play much fantasy? This type of thing seems somewhat commonplace when you see the “Q” near a player all week and keep checking, get vague updates and the player is a “game time decision.”
this is the starting QB of the team we follow most closely so we’re just hyper aware of everything.
I think what makes the Mac situation unique is that if he was any other player on the team he is probably put on IR given what we know about the injury. As we know NE doesn't typically keep players on the roster that won't be active. I'm guessing NE values the experience he will get from remaining in the building and going through the mental game planning week in, week out for at least the next 4 weeks more than adding the 54th player to the roster. The fact he was ruled out on the first day injury designations were announced makes it pretty clear he was never in the plans for this week nor will he likely be back anytime soon. This is likely 20% gamesmanship, 80% continuing to coach your "franchise" QB.
 

lexrageorge

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I think what makes the Mac situation unique is that if he was any other player on the team he is probably put on IR given what we know about the injury. As we know NE doesn't typically keep players on the roster that won't be active. I'm guessing NE values the experience he will get from remaining in the building and going through the mental game planning week in, week out for at least the next 4 weeks more than adding the 54th player to the roster. The fact he was ruled out on the first day injury designations were announced makes it pretty clear he was never in the plans for this week nor will he likely be back anytime soon. This is likely 20% gamesmanship, 80% continuing to coach your "franchise" QB.
Yesterday was Friday, which historically has shown Bill to be at his most open when discussing football matters with the media (there is even a book called Friday's with Bill). Some of his quotes from yesterday's presser:

Q: What do you need to see from Mac [Jones] to determine his physical readiness to play on Sunday?

BB: Ultimately, that will be a decision made by the medical people, in consultation with Mac [Jones], of course. Like we do with any player. He's no different than any other player. I mean he is, but I'm just saying the process is the same. Medical evaluation, talk to the player, and as a coach you, at whatever point, get the information that you get and you make a decision, if there's a decision to be made. If there's no decision to be made medically, then I'm out of. But if there's a decision to be made, if a player's at x percent, he can do this. The player feel likes he can do this. He's ready to play. Then I'll make a decision. Do I want this player at x percent? Or somebody else at, let's call it, 100 percent? But a lot of times it never gets to that point. Occasionally it does. If it does then that becomes my decision, in consultation with the player, and usually his position coach, or the staff.
I bolded part of the answer, indicating that Bill does believe there are special circumstances around the 2nd year starting QB who is clearly still learning. Putting Mac on IR means he cannot participate in practice. Some more...

Q: You called it the other day a sort of day-by-day situation...

BB: Is that the word I used? I can't remember exactly how I described it. Yeah. Okay. I think you're right. I think you're right. Did I break a record on that, or?

Q: 12 times.
BB: Is that what it was? Nice, alright. I wasn't trying to do that. Just when you ask the same question, I give the same answer. Sorry.
Bill's more angry quotes do happen when he's asked the same question 4 or 5 times in a row (which indeed happened the other day).

Now, some justification as to why Bill himself does not reveal a lot of information about injuries:

Q: Does that mean though that this might not be a multi-week injury?
BB: Phil [Perry] I don't know. We'll just take it as it comes. Look, if you have an injury, you've had injuries. If you have an injury, you go out and do something. If you're okay, then you do more. If you're not okay, then you back off and you do a little less. Then you do more. Then you're okay, then you do more. How's it going to feel the next day after you do something? Well you're not going to know until the next day. Then you make a decision the next day. It's not a broken bone. It's not a fracture that you're dealing with. It's a different type of injury that -- I mean look, you guys took the [Ty] Montgomery story right? We had him out for the year. We had him out for eight weeks. He was never going to play again, and all that. He played in the opener against Miami. So I don't know. What was that? Somebody else can have the same injury, it could have healed at a different rate. We're all different. Each injury is a little bit different. So again, I'm not going to sit here and pretend like I have a magic wand, a crystal ball and I know exactly what's going to happen. Nobody knows. I don't know. He doesn't know. The doctors don't know. Take it as it comes and see what happens. It's the same with all of them. We have four, five, six guys like this every week, in varying degrees. Is it two days? Three days? Four days? A week? Is it eight days, 10 days? It's hard to tell. Until you actually get out there and perform at a level that is comparable to what a professional football player has to do. So walking around, going to the grocery store and pumping gas that's one thing. Going out there and competing on the football field with other elite professional athletes, that's different. So what heals okay? What's okay? What's competitively okay? Again, you're talking about well-conditioned athletes that heal quickly, generally speaking. I mean bones are bones. But guys that are in training, guys that are well-conditioned, that are healthy come back quicker than others of us, let's call it.
There it is. Telling the media that a player will be ready in 4 weeks, and then finding out that player needs 6 or 8, can raise all sorts of unnecessary questions about the player's "toughness". If the player only needs 2, the local mediots will claim the team is being dishonest. The healing rate from soft tissue injuries in particular is always difficult to predict. And the players are in the top 0.0001% of the population in terms of health and fitness, and are asked to put their bodies through workouts that 99.99999% of us will never come close to experiencing.

The team did actually reveal quite a bit of info on Mac's injury: we heard on Sunday that there were no broken bones and so likely not season ending. On Monday, it was reported to be a high ankle sprain. Later in the week it was leaked that surgery is unlikely. And on Friday he was ruled out. Really, as fans, not sure we "need" to know more; we can certainly discern the outcome from the opinions of the subject matter experts in this area.
 

mulluysavage

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Trainers: "He won't be able to play for at least 4 weeks."

Mac: "I want to be out there with my teammates, I want to show how tough I am and how great a team-mate I am. Let me try."

BB: "Is there an exactly zero chance he can practice and play?"

Trainers: "A .001% chance."

Mac: "Let me go on the practice field with everyone, and throw and see what I can do."

BB: "Can he do that?"

Trainers: "He could stand there and throw with heavily-taped ankles, and probably not much else."

Mac: "Yay!"

BB: "Mac is day-to-day."

Shaugnessy: "Disingenuousness! Gamesmanship! Subterfuge!"
 

brandonchristensen

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Do you play much fantasy? This type of thing seems somewhat commonplace when you see the “Q” near a player all week and keep checking, get vague updates and the player is a “game time decision.”
this is the starting QB of the team we follow most closely so we’re just hyper aware of everything.
I don't - but you're right I do hear about that stuff.
 

luckiestman

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Saleh and the Jets have bungled so much injury stuff by going out and telling the media “the best info they had”. He, Saleh, would have been better off doing the Belichick. He was more forthcoming then Belichick ever is and it didn’t win him anything at all.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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Good lord.

He’s a fast healer, the initial reports were incorrect, and/or he has a very high pain tolerance.

I still think it would be pretty surprising if he’s able to play this Sunday. To wit-

View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1575887603240411137?s=46&t=xBcKCOYotCl3kQWa6Ie0jg
Couple things-

1. No-one is a “fast healer”. Human biology is what is is. You can make healing slower or less predictable (smoking, diabetes, etc can impact healing negatively) but the extent of the injury, and, to an extent, the availability of treatment, will determine the recovery time frame. Which is to say, if you or I had a high ankle sprain we might have symptoms longer than Mac because we might go to PT 1 or 2 times a week, while he can get treatment every day for hours which can lessen the symptoms.

2. If anyone ever tells you they themselves have a ”high pain threshold“ they actually have a low tolerance for pain. It’s like telling someone you have a great sense of humor or a great sense of direction… usually the exact opposite is true. This has nothing to do with Mac’s situation, it’s just me being a dick.

3. Mac opting not to have the surgery indicates to me that it most likely would not have moved the needle very much in terms of his recovery. Given his dedication to the team and being the best player he can be generally, I have to think that if it would have gotten him back on the field in say, 4 weeks instead of 8, he would have opted for it. That he was out at practice this week probably means they are anticipating a 2-3 week recovery timeframe in which the surgery really wouldn’t have made much difference
 

fiskful of dollars

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Couple things-

1. No-one is a “fast healer”. Human biology is what is is. You can make healing slower or less predictable (smoking, diabetes, etc can impact healing negatively) but the extent of the injury, and, to an extent, the availability of treatment, will determine the recovery time frame. Which is to say, if you or I had a high ankle sprain we might have symptoms longer than Mac because we might go to PT 1 or 2 times a week, while he can get treatment every day for hours which can lessen the symptoms.

2. If anyone ever tells you they themselves have a ”high pain threshold“ they actually have a low tolerance for pain. It’s like telling someone you have a great sense of humor or a great sense of direction… usually the exact opposite is true. This has nothing to do with Mac’s situation, it’s just me being a dick.

3. Mac opting not to have the surgery indicates to me that it most likely would not have moved the needle very much in terms of his recovery. Given his dedication to the team and being the best player he can be generally, I have to think that if it would have gotten him back on the field in say, 4 weeks instead of 8, he would have opted for it. That he was out at practice this week probably means they are anticipating a 2-3 week recovery timeframe in which the surgery really wouldn’t have made much difference
QFT.
Bolded QFT x infinity.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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2. If anyone ever tells you they themselves have a ”high pain threshold“ they actually have a low tolerance for pain. It’s like telling someone you have a great sense of humor or a great sense of direction… usually the exact opposite is true. This has nothing to do with Mac’s situation, it’s just me being a dick.
Is this serious? I can't tell if you're kidding or not, and that's bad news for you because I have a great sense of humor.
 

radsoxfan

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3. Mac opting not to have the surgery indicates to me that it most likely would not have moved the needle very much in terms of his recovery. Given his dedication to the team and being the best player he can be generally, I have to think that if it would have gotten him back on the field in say, 4 weeks instead of 8, he would have opted for it. That he was out at practice this week probably means they are anticipating a 2-3 week recovery timeframe in which the surgery really wouldn’t have made much difference
Also, in his very limited practice it looked like he was fully weight bearing without a boot or anything only 5 days after the injury... seems like its being treated as a stable low or moderate grade sprain rather than the "severe" sprain initially reported.

Will 3rd the pain tolerance comment. These joint injection patients inevitably jump off the table in pain before the needle hits their skin. Even if you think you truly do have a "high pain tolerance", my advice would be not to tell your doctor because we will always do an internal eye-roll. Just play it straight up and hope for the best.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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Also, in his very limited practice it looked like he was fully weight bearing without a boot or anything only 5 days after the injury... seems like its being treated as a stable low or moderate grade sprain rather than the "severe" sprain initially reported.

Will 3rd the pain tolerance comment. These joint injection patients inevitably jump off the table in pain before the needle hits their skin. Even if you think you truly do have a "high pain tolerance", my advice would be not to tell your doctor because we will always do an internal eye-roll. Just play it straight up and hope for the best.
You keep the eye-roll internal? You’re a better man than me….
 

fiskful of dollars

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I can control my eyeroll, but not my involuntary lower face movements, which always give me away. Luckily, in the post-pandemic world, the mask hides a lot of these nonverbal cues from my patients.
 

radsoxfan

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I can control my eyeroll, but not my involuntary lower face movements, which always give me away. Luckily, in the post-pandemic world, the mask hides a lot of these nonverbal cues from my patients.
Yes the masks are great....By eyes alone, a grimace can look just like a smile.
 

Old Fart Tree

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Also, in his very limited practice it looked like he was fully weight bearing without a boot or anything only 5 days after the injury... seems like its being treated as a stable low or moderate grade sprain rather than the "severe" sprain initially reported.

Will 3rd the pain tolerance comment. These joint injection patients inevitably jump off the table in pain before the needle hits their skin. Even if you think you truly do have a "high pain tolerance", my advice would be not to tell your doctor because we will always do an internal eye-roll. Just play it straight up and hope for the best.
I always, always tell any nurse or surgeon that I have incredibly low pain tolerance. It makes like easier.
 

lostjumper

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Couple things-

1. No-one is a “fast healer”. Human biology is what is is. You can make healing slower or less predictable (smoking, diabetes, etc can impact healing negatively) but the extent of the injury, and, to an extent, the availability of treatment, will determine the recovery time frame. Which is to say, if you or I had a high ankle sprain we might have symptoms longer than Mac because we might go to PT 1 or 2 times a week, while he can get treatment every day for hours which can lessen the symptoms.
Listen doc, you guys need to catch up to modern football medicine. Wait until you start using deer antler spray in the operating room! You'll shorten recovery times from months to mere weeks! And it comes with the Ray Lewis seal of approval! You spray some of that on Mac's ankle and he'll be back in no time!
 

McBride11

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You keep the eye-roll internal? You’re a better man than me….
I can control my eyeroll, but not my involuntary lower face movements, which always give me away. Luckily, in the post-pandemic world, the mask hides a lot of these nonverbal cues from my patients.
Yes the masks are great....By eyes alone, a grimace can look just like a smile.
This all cracked me. The high pain tolerance quote is 110% true. At the VA often the most tatted couldnt bear a small needle for a vasectomy.

Im good at controlling my facial expressions, I think the masks have made me less good as I just assume it is covered.
 

Shelterdog

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I like the high tolerance comedy and am sure that a lot of wannabe tough guys say they have high tolerance but how much variance is there on things like tolerance for needles etc?
 

McBride11

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To be fair, a needle that's pointing at your penis is not just any ordinary needle.
Touche. Tho most commonly pointed at the balls for a vasectomy. The injections in the dick guys love as it is way bettrr then viagra

I scolded my friend this am for being scared of a vas while his wife will be undergoing a second C section in early Nov. 20-50 yo guys are the biggest wusses. Check me @DaveRoberts'Shoes @radsoxfan @fiskful of dollars @dixielandbandana
 

Jimbodandy

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Touche. Tho most commonly pointed at the balls for a vasectomy. The injections in the dick guys love as it is way bettrr then viagra

I scolded my friend this am for being scared of a vas while his wife will be undergoing a second C section in early Nov. 20-50 yo guys are the biggest wusses. Check me @DaveRoberts'Shoes @radsoxfan @fiskful of dollars @dixielandbandana
Ha I'm sure that's true.

I'm just saying that I've yanked roofing nails out of the ball of my foot and had a nailgun push a finished nail through a finger and had to work it out the hard way just fine. But if you came within two feet of mister happy with a needle, I wouldn't be able to watch.

Having watched my wife push for 90 minutes (45 seconds on, 45 seconds off) only to have to end up with the C section anyway, I'd never compare my toughness to hers.
 

radsoxfan

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20-50 yo guys are the biggest wusses.
Apoligzes for the continued sidetrack. But this is definitely true, I'd narrow it down to 20-35 or so even more.

If anyone is going to pass out after an arthrogram injection, it's one of these dudes. Some sort of hyperactive vasovagal thing going on.

I also get a kick out of the guys with full body tattoos and claim they are afraid of needles.