The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I find complaining about game threads to be silly. It’s where people emote in real time. It’s that way on every fan site on earth. Like, literally.
There are lots of emotional posts in this thread and I expressed a view you don't agree with. We've kind of reached an impasse.

Again, the tone here feels a bit off relative to today's results. It almost feels like a loss.

Jones didn't play well but his team won the game.
 

sezwho

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Its just not realistic to expect another good QB right after we got to see something incredibly rare. If you watch other NFL teams, including contenders, you will see bad play by even contending QBs.

Meanwhile, Jones was on the winning team today, which, last I checked, was all that matters in football. To me, some posts here read like we just saw a horrible loss that was all Jones' doing.
Its perfectly reasonable to expect a first round pick, who made a pro bowl, and is coached by the greatest coach of all time, to be good.

I think we have a good QB, or we had one. His confidence is shot and probably should be: poor coaching and poor line have left us here. Sure we can take victory laps, and it was a W indeed, but my sights are set a little higher than beating a team that stabs itself in the face over and again.

...edit to remove what wasn't meant to be snark..
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I generally agree with your approach in game threads but I am not entirely sure what the point is here.

Every one knows that great quarterbacks are rare. But everyone hopes that they maybe have a guy who is one. Maybe I am late to the party but I have been kind of optimistic that we had one. Yeah, I knew it wasn’t probable but up until today I had thought it was possible. He’s not the guy I hoped. Realized it today. He’s the guy we got and of course I will root for him. And I can’t say I am surprised because like you say good quarterbacks are rare.

But it is disappointing and I really think that is all people are expressing as that becomes more and more clear. Maybe you knew all along?
I personally don't have enough data to determine whether Jones can win a SB or not. Today did nothing to change that assessment.
 

8slim

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There are lots of emotional posts in this thread and I expressed a view you don't agree with. We've kind of reached an impasse.

Again, the tone here feels a bit off relative to today's results. It almost feels like a loss.

Jones didn't play well but his team won the game.
There’s been like 15 posts in this thread since the game ended and maybe 3-4 of them were quite critical of Mac’s play today.

People are praising who helped the team win in the game ball thread. Here they are commenting on Mac’s play.

Seriously, what is going on?
 

8slim

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My “view” is that you spend a lot of time chastising people and saying it’s because they don’t watch the NFL is pretty condescending.

What did YOU think of Mac’s game today?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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There are lots of emotional posts in this thread and I expressed a view you don't agree with. We've kind of reached an impasse.

Again, the tone here feels a bit off relative to today's results. It almost feels like a loss.

Jones didn't play well but his team won the game.
It does feel like a loss to me. I am glad that they won but I would have enjoyed going a few more weeks thinking we might have a keeper. I am not a Mac believer any more and that is not a great feeling. Who knows maybe next week will be different.

I guess I don’t understand what you are saying. I thought your point was that expecting Mac to be really good wasn’t realistic in the first place so that you didn’t understand the disappointment. But now I think I misunderstood. It doesn’t matter much, I think, in the end.
 

radsoxfan

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It really feels like some people criticizing Jones don't watch much NFL beyond the Patriots. What we saw today between the Pats and Jets is what many other fans across the league get week in and week out from what I've seen. It almost feels like a typical Thursday Night game this season.
Mac is playing poorly, likely in the bottom 3rd of QBs in the league. Certainly the bottom half. Teams with those QBs are constantly complaining about their QB, rightfully so.

Are we supposed to not criticize Mac because there are lots of other teams in the same boat? I'm confused.

I don't see many people saying he should be replaced at the moment, just that he's not playing well. It's a bummer, hopefully it improves.
 

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There are very few QBs that would have looked good and played well behind this OL today. Mac is responsible for what he does with the ball, but I have a hard time drawing any conclusions after today. The line was a complete nightmare.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It does feel like a loss to me. I am glad that they won but I would have enjoyed going a few more weeks thinking we might have a keeper. I am not a Mac believer any more and that is not a great feeling.

I guess I don’t understand what you are saying. I thought your point was that expecting Mac to be really good wasn’t realistic in the first place so that you didn’t understand the disappointment. But now I think I misunderstood. It doesn’t matter much, I think, in the end.
Mac Jones didn't play well but he did play well enough for the Patriots to win. Some of the criticisms here and overall fail to acknowledge that important point.

And while its hard to be bullish on Jones overall, I cannot agree with those who are confident in their takes on him. Is it really beyond the pale that he won't clean things up with more experience? To you/others it may be. I am not there and actually think it is possible.

I stand by my view that some of the criticisms are informed by watching Brady for two decades - how could it be otherwise - instead of what is going on in the NFL overall. There are some pretty terribly QBd games outside of the Jets/Pats including today.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I stand by my view that some of the criticisms are informed by watching Brady for two decades - how could it be otherwise - instead of what is going on in the NFL overall. There are some pretty terribly QBd games outside of the Jets/Pats including today.
Hard disagree. Yes, there are some pretty terrible QBs around the NFL, people don't want Mac to be one of them. Right now he's playing like one of them. Nobody is comparing him to Brady, that's absurd. People want to see him play at least as well as . . . 2021 Mac Jones at least? He's been markedly worse than he was as a rookie, this is what people are reacting too. Nobody was expecting him to be Tom Brady.

And come on with the "he won" bullshit. The opposing QB vomited all over himself, and he got incredibly lucky that a horrendous pick-6 that he threw didn't count.

I think the Pats have to play Mac the rest of the way to see if he can shake off whatever is causing him to have clearly regressed since his rookie year, they have no other choice. And I hope to hell he figures it out. But your posts in this thread are silly. Mac's performance isn't being held up to peak Tom Brady. They are being held up to "can we be consistently successful with this guy" and right now the answer looks like "no".
 

radsoxfan

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I stand by my view that some of the criticisms are informed by watching Brady for two decades - how could it be otherwise - instead of what is going on in the NFL overall. There are some pretty terribly QBd games outside of the Jets/Pats including today.
Why would the fact there are other terrible QBs have any bearing on a Patriots fan complaining about Mac.

"Mac was bad, but you know what, 8 other guys sucked too. So... nevermind?"

Makes no sense. Plenty of people can rightfully complain about their QB play. It's a bummer, at the moment, Pats fans can too.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Hard disagree. Yes, there are some pretty terrible QBs around the NFL, people don't want Mac to be one of them. Right now he's playing like one of them. Nobody is comparing him to Brady, that's absurd. People want to see him play at least as well as . . . 2021 Mac Jones at least? He's been markedly worse than he was as a rookie, this is what people are reacting too. Nobody was expecting him to be Tom Brady.

And come on with the "he won" bullshit. The opposing QB vomited all over himself, and he got incredibly lucky that a horrendous pick-6 that he threw didn't count.

I think the Pats have to play Mac the rest of the way to see if he can shake off whatever is causing him to have clearly regressed since his rookie year, they have no other choice. And I hope to hell he figures it out. But your posts in this thread are silly. Mac's performance isn't being held up to peak Tom Brady. They are being held up to "can we be consistently successful with this guy" and right now the answer looks like "no".
So posts that don't agree with someone's view are silly? Got it.

The Pats have OL troubles - most here can agree on that. They are not loaded at skill offensive positions either - that's not too controversial a statement. I even think many here would agree that these elements are critical for high level QB play. I simply don't think its a good faith evaluation of Jones' play without acknowledging those important factors.

Does that mean Mac Jones can lead a team to a championship if he has those things? Not saying that at all. For me, its still an open question.
 

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I think Mac's below average numbers very strongly refute your point. He's not even an average NFL QB right now. In fact, I would absolutely love if he was. You can win with average to slightly above average QB play.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I think Mac's below average numbers very strongly refute your point. He's not even an average NFL QB right now. In fact, I would absolutely love if he was. You can win with average to slightly above average QB play.
You already know how this will play out - I don't possess that capability.

I cannot agree that Jones will not improve with more seasoning, protection and weapons.
 

FL4WL3SS

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I don't disagree that the OL has been wildly inconsistent. Mac's pocket awareness needs to improve significantly though. It's no coincidence that they looked really good when Zappe was in there as he's got very good pocket presence.
 

Cellar-Door

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So posts that don't agree with someone's view are silly? Got it.

The Pats have OL troubles - most here can agree on that. They are not loaded at skill offensive positions either - that's not too controversial a statement. I even think many here would agree that these elements are critical for high level QB play. I simply don't think its a good faith evaluation of Jones' play without acknowledging those important factors.

Does that mean Mac Jones can lead a team to a championship if he has those things? Not saying that at all. For me, its still an open question.
I don't buy a lot of this. Lots of teams have O-line issues, lots of teams have worse offensive skill players... in fact I'd guess the Patriots are top half of the league in terms of skill position players. We have 2 excellent RBs, we have a good TE and a 2nd TE who could start many places, we have a lot of depth at WR, including guys who have been the #2 elsewhere (or #1 when their team was bad). Neither the Line or the skill positions are at the bottom of the league. If your argument is that you can only evaluate a QB when he has a great line and top of the league skill guys..... well that's just silly because maybe 5 teams a year at most have that situation... the Patriots just came off a 20 year run where they had that maybe 2-3 times.

Yes... O-line play impacts QB performance, and yes having elite skill players (really WRs) is a huge help to a QB.... but you can't just throw your hands up and say... average O-line... can't evaluate the QB at all.

Edit- being able to play QB when your line isn't ideal is basically what separates real starters from also-rans in the NFL. Now if you have a HORRIFIC line... yeah sometimes you can't overcome that, but that isn't what's happening here. And you can evaluate Mac on the plays he does have good protection, and evaluate how he responds to pressure.
 

BigSoxFan

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I cannot agree that Jones will not improve with more seasoning, protection and weapons.
Love ya man but I don’t see any posts in this thread since the game ended making this argument about Mac.

I think we’re all a bit perplexed about what is going on with him so far this year. He just doesn’t look at comfortable in the pocket and is making some bad decisions, more than we grew accustomed to seeing last year. For a “growth” year, that is a little concerning but not disqualifying in the least.

I was hoping for more from Mac this year but, hey, it could be worse. Imagine being a Jets fan seeing all of the talent that went behind him in the draft and realizing that he may very well be on the road to bustville.
 
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It was great to get the win today but I thought Mac was really bad. As convinced as I was by him last season being the guy, I'm equally convinced this year that he's not. (I'm not sure what that means. Probably that we don't know. But wow he seems lost right now.)
 

Eddie Jurak

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4th and 1, play drawn up to boot left with 1 TE and 1 WR, Mac Boots... the TE is open for an easy 1st.... Mac ignores him, starts dancing around, tries to waive Meyers into a new route completely against Jakobi's momentum.... dumps a duck in the middle of nowhere.
IT's 4th and 1... just give your TE the ball and take the fresh set of downs.
Mac is mentally messed up right now. His decision-making and execution have been off all season long, and we don't really know why although there have been a lot of potential causes: injuries (remember, he got hurt in game 1, then again at the end of game 3), new offense and offensive coaches, erratic pass protection, etc. I just think he is out there thinking his way through things and it isn't working. I think it remains possible, even likely, that he will eventually get his shit together.
 

patinorange

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Mac is mentally messed up right now. His decision-making and execution have been off all season long, and we don't really know why although there have been a lot of potential causes: injuries (remember, he got hurt in game 1, then again at the end of game 3), new offense and offensive coaches, erratic pass protection, etc. I just think he is out there thinking his way through things and it isn't working. I think it remains possible, even likely, that he will eventually get his shit together.
The play calling and the offensive line are run by the same guy. I think we can start there. Mac was not good, but he’s not exactly getting much help.
 

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At the beginning of the year, there was general concern that handing the offensive game-planning and play-calling to coaches with little to no experience at it would hamper Mac's development.
There has been enough of a sample size to this point to suggest that this has played out as feared.
There certainly are other factors -- some on Mac himself, some on the offensive line struggles -- but what this has led to repeated and extreme opinions that Jones isn't the guy, isn't worth continuing to play and doesn't look as though he can improve over time.
We went from understanding that this likely was going to be a rough transition to a division over whether enough time has passed to make judgments on that transition.
It's not our finest hour.
 

Cellar-Door

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Mac is mentally messed up right now. His decision-making and execution have been off all season long, and we don't really know why although there have been a lot of potential causes: injuries (remember, he got hurt in game 1, then again at the end of game 3), new offense and offensive coaches, erratic pass protection, etc. I just think he is out there thinking his way through things and it isn't working. I think it remains possible, even likely, that he will eventually get his shit together.
yeah, he's a mess. I do think it does also shed a bit of light on his struggles last year late as well. People kind of waved off that he struggled down the stretch (good defenses, our defense struggled, etc.) based on his good stretch middle of the season. However, he came out this year and struggled even more, at first there were a lot of excuses made (playcalling mostly) but it continued, and Zappe looked decent when he came in, so people are starting to hone in on Mac's weaknesses and that this is a trend of regression that really started last year and has just totally blown up this year.

I have concerns about him long term, but I also recognize you have to give him the full year this year to see where he ends up.

At the beginning of the year, there was general concern that handing the offensive game-planning and play-calling to coaches with little to no experience at it would hamper Mac's development.
There has been enough of a sample size to this point to suggest that this has played out as feared.
There certainly are other factors -- some on Mac himself, some on the offensive line struggles -- but what this has led to repeated and extreme opinions that Jones isn't the guy, isn't worth continuing to play and doesn't look as though he can improve over time.
We went from understanding that this likely was going to be a rough transition to a division over whether enough time has passed to make judgments on that transition.
It's not our finest hour.
In fairness part of that is because a rookie 4th round 3rd stringer stepped in and looked more poised and comfortable than Mac. And yes I get that they call different offense for Mac and Zappe, but I don't totally buy the idea that Patricia and Judge are calling good games for Zappe and bad ones for Mac... a lot of it is on Mac. The CHI game was an interesting one to me because they called some similar plays for both guys and Zappe looked much more comfortable executing.

I would love if we had better offensive coaches, but I think we can still look at this and say that Mac's performance is significantly his own doing, and make some evaluations based on that. Just looking at things like the play I posted up-thread... that's a simple play, it's a good play, it's a great call in a key situation that got exactly what it wanted... and easy short throw for a 1st. And Mac shit all over himself in multiple ways.

Now I don't know that I would say Mac isn't the guy for sure, and I certainly don't think he shouldn't play, but I do think that the question of whether he's the guy SHOULD be discussed. That's what you do with 2nd year QBs, especially ones without top end tools, and even more so with ones who don't show growth.
 
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Eddie Jurak

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I don't think I agree that Mac was bad today. He wasn't consistent, but he had his positive plays and his negative plays. The would-have-been pick 6 looked worse than it was - he and Meyers misread an option route. The 4th down where he didn't throw to Henry was a bigger deal, because it suggests he has tunnel vision (ie, that he locks in on his first read and can't survey the field). He did complete 24 passes, run for a couple of first downs, threw a red zone TD, and his interception was on a play where he was hit as he threw with a major impact on the throw.

He struggled, but it wasn't all bad.
 
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The Pats have OL troubles - most here can agree on that. They are not loaded at skill offensive positions either - that's not too controversial a statement. I even think many here would agree that these elements are critical for high level QB play. I simply don't think its a good faith evaluation of Jones' play without acknowledging those important factors.
Regardless of what folks here think of Mac right now, I don’t see how one can argue against the entirely reasonable arguments above. The OL happens to have been a shambles (at least ISH, today it was undeniably so) more often than not during Mac’s starts. The idea that there’s lots of other teams with equal or worse weapons seems silly to me.

Dependable weapons for this offense right now are the following: Stephenson and Meyers. That’s kind of it. I love the potential of Thornton, and still hold out hope that the soon to be traded maybe Kendrick Bourne can be effective and quasi-dynamic. But I’m praying Agholor (or possibly Bourne) will be dealt to Green Bay in five or so minutes and, as much as I love Harris, he’s not going to play at the same time as Stephenson too often, if at all, and there’s not much chance he’ll be around this time next year.

I’m in the same boat with the vast majority of posters here - less sold on Mac than I was last year - but ignoring the fact that line play, weapons and coaching (the offense AND the OL that tends to determine how well it runs) have been shaky at best seems unfair to Mac and unwise if what you’re looking for is dependably accurate analysis. It’s a really frustrating place to be, but I’m with those who say, Give him the rest of the year to develop and adjust and keep the rebuild going.

Edit: TYPOS every fucking time
 

Harry Hooper

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I don't disagree that the OL has been wildly inconsistent. Mac's pocket awareness needs to improve significantly though. It's no coincidence that they looked really good when Zappe was in there as he's got very good pocket presence.
The pocket tending to be 7x bigger and more durable because of weak defenses faced when Zappe played might not be a coincidence either. I don't deny Mac has issues, BTW.
 

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I don't think I agree that Mac was bad today. He wasn't consistent, but he had his positive plays and his negative plays. The would-have-been pick 6 looked worse than it was - he and Meyers misread an option route. The 4th down where he didn't throw to Henry was a bigger deal, because it suggests he has tunnel vision (ie, that he locks in on his first read and can't survey the field). He did complete 24 passes, run for a couple of first downs, threw a red zone TD, and his interception was on a play where he was hit as he threw with a major impact on the throw.

He struggled, but it wasn't all bad.
I could not disagree more with this post. Setting aside the eye test which showed Mac with happy feet in the pocket, making throws off of his back foot, and missing open reads (and that horrible pick 6) ...

1. Mac threw for 5.5 yards per attempt. That's subpar.
2. The offense Mac led generated less than 2 points per drive (22 points over 12 drives excluding the final one to run out the clock). And that's being generous. Patriots scored 6 points (2 FG's) on 2 drives where the special teams or defense gifted the offense tremendous starting field position. On the first of those drives after a great punt return, Mac and the offense went 3 and out and gained 0 yards. On the second of those drives after the interception, Mac and the offense went 3 and out and gained 4 yards. You could make the argument that the Mac-led offense really generated only 16 points over 12 drives.
3. On 2 other drives with phenomenal starting field position (NYJ 45, NYJ 40), the Mac-led offense had to punt.

Maybe Mac will be able to turn this around in coming weeks. His body of work over the past 12 months does not inspire confidence. In his last 13 games dating back to last season, Mac's play has only been acceptable in 3 of those contests (all from last season).

11/18/2021 -- Thursday night game at Falcons. High completion percentage, but Mac's offense didn't put up a lot of points against a very poor Falcons defense.
11/28/2021 -- Home vs Titans. Stats look great (300 yds and 2 TD), but goosed by ridiculous performance from Bourne (including an improbable 41 yard TD reception) and playing against an injury-decimated Titans team.
12/6/2021 -- Monday night at Bills. Extreme wind game.
12/18/2021 -- Saturday night game at Colts. Scoreless first half and bad pick. Rebounded late to make game competitive.
12/26/2021 -- Home vs Bills. Kept in check by stout defense. No TD's, 2 picks.
1/2/2022 -- Home vs. Jaguars. Lit up worst team in league.
1/9/2022 -- At Dolphins. Pick 6 to put team in early hole.
1/15/2022 -- Playoff game at Bills. Looked overmatched, but it was really the Patriots defense that sh!t the bed.
9/11/2022 -- At Dolphins. Untimely pick. Unremarkable. Offense only puts up 7 points in loss.
9/18/2022 -- At Steelers. Another bad pick. Agholor makes a great play on a so/so deep throw before halftime. Pats' run game steps up in second half.
9/25/2022 -- Home vs. Ravens. Winnable game where Mac made best throws of the year. But he also threw 3 picks with 0 pass TD.
10/24/2022 -- Home vs. Bears on Monday night. Looked horrible. Terrible back foot INT in first half leads to "benching."
10/30/2022 -- At Jets. Looked very shaky. One pick caused by pressure. Another horrible pick 6 erased by after-the-fact roughing the passer penalty.

I think a feeling of disappointment here with Mac is entirely justified. Going forward, we'll just have to trust Bill to figure out how to fix/salvage Mac.
 

heavyde050

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The first two drives Mac led in the second half were encouraging up until the sack he took at the end of the second drive resulting in the FG. Those drives were nothing special, but it was a good mix of run and pass. Outside of those two drives it definitely was subpar.
 

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There are very few QBs that would have looked good and played well behind this OL today. Mac is responsible for what he does with the ball, but I have a hard time drawing any conclusions after today. The line was a complete nightmare.
I agree with this. The pressure was overwhelming right off the bat. Jones quickly get spooked and it affected his decision-making and throws. When they later changed to a quicker pace it seemed to help Mac develop a rhythm. I think it's important to keep running him out there and letting him figure it out. He did offseason work with House, so he's incorporating that input, he's got new coaches, there are changes to the offense, an injury, and an OL (particularly RT) that is inconsistent and penalty-prone at best. Reps and more reps can hopefully shake out some of these variables and we'll then be able to figure out if we have a viable QB.

One of the big worries I have with Mac is his footwork. He doesn't bounce and he's planting his feet early and twisting just his torso on throws. Too often he's throwing off the back foot or his feet are in a line away from his intended receiver. It's a bad habit that's negatively affecting his arm strength and accuracy.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I could not disagree more with this post. Setting aside the eye test which showed Mac with happy feet in the pocket, making throws off of his back foot, and missing open reads (and that horrible pick 6) ...

1. Mac threw for 5.5 yards per attempt. That's subpar.
2. The offense Mac led generated less than 2 points per drive (22 points over 12 drives excluding the final one to run out the clock). And that's being generous. Patriots scored 6 points (2 FG's) on 2 drives where the special teams or defense gifted the offense tremendous starting field position. On the first of those drives after a great punt return, Mac and the offense went 3 and out and gained 0 yards. On the second of those drives after the interception, Mac and the offense went 3 and out and gained 4 yards. You could make the argument that the Mac-led offense really generated only 16 points over 12 drives.
3. On 2 other drives with phenomenal starting field position (NYJ 45, NYJ 40), the Mac-led offense had to punt.
A lot of that was the atrocious performance of the offensive line. I mean, we're all happy with Stevenson's game: 16 carries for 71 yards, 7 catches for 72. But look under the hood of Stevenson's game and you see that he actually got stuffed on half of his carries, because the line sucked. On his one long run (35 yards), he broke three tackles including one at the line.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Its perfectly reasonable to expect a first round pick, who made a pro bowl, and is coached by the greatest coach of all time, to be good.

I think we have a good QB, or we had one. His confidence is shot and probably should be: poor coaching and poor line have left us here. Sure we can take victory laps, and it was a W indeed, but my sights are set a little higher than beating a team that stabs itself in the face over and again.

...edit to remove what wasn't meant to be snark..
How has Mac Jones been coached poorly? I’m not at practices or in the film rooms so seriously wondering what specifics lead you to this conclusion. If this is true how has Zappe been able to have stretches of success under these same conditions?
 

ragnarok725

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Mac Jones didn't play well but he did play well enough for the Patriots to win. Some of the criticisms here and overall fail to acknowledge that important point.
He really didn't play well enough to win.

Mac put his team down 17-3 going into the half, and instead was bailed out by a horrendous play from the Jets DE who roughed him. The roughing had no bearing on the play whatsoever. Mac does not get points for the win just because of that idiotic play. It doesn't make his throw and decision in that moment any less bad.

How can you watch this play and not be down on the guy? If you factor in this play I honestly think he was worse than Wilson yesterday.

View: https://twitter.com/DougKyed/status/1586785410272854017
 
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Traut

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He really didn't play well enough to win.

Mac put his team down 17-3 going into the half, and instead was bailed out by a horrendous play from the Jets DE who roughed him. The roughing had no bearing on the play whatsoever. Mac does not get points for the win just because of that idiotic play. It doesn't make his throw and decision in that moment any less bad.

How can you watch this play and not be down on the guy? If you factor in this play I honestly think he was worse than Wilson yesterday.

View: https://twitter.com/DougKyed/status/1586785410272854017
We will never know the answer to this but I’m sure the Patriots coaches do - this could very well have been a receiver running the wrong route or signals getting crossed in communication.

I was at the game yesterday and this is hardly an endorsement of Mac Jones - it’s more of an indictment of Wilson - there is no universe were Mac Jones was worse than Wilson yesterday. None.
 

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Yes the O-line was not good but this is not a QB that is elevating the team. Taking 6 sacks many of them horrendous in his lack of awareness and timing combined with the recklessness in his running approach suggests he’s going to get himself hurt again.
Maybe he’s pressing to make a play but there has to be a good sense of self-preservation for this critical position that we are not seeing right now.
 

Van Everyman

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He really didn't play well enough to win.

Mac put his team down 17-3 going into the half, and instead was bailed out by a horrendous play from the Jets DE who roughed him. The roughing had no bearing on the play whatsoever. Mac does not get points for the win just because of that idiotic play. It doesn't make his throw and decision in that moment any less bad.

How can you watch this play and not be down on the guy? If you factor in this play I honestly think he was worse than Wilson yesterday.

View: https://twitter.com/DougKyed/status/1586785410272854017
I’m not sure how many times it needs to be repeated but let’s do it again:

In real time the interception looked ghastly. I actually gasped when it happened and thought Mac was just throwing it to nowhere. On replay, it’s clearly a miscommunication between Mac and Meyers who each expect the ball in a different place – Mac out, Meyers in. That’s not the first time that’s happened this year. Parker zigged when Mac zagged against the Ravens earlier this year and it may well be on Mac. But like that INT, he wasn’t just chucking the ball up there a la Zack Wilson.

He’s not a finished product. He needs to become one sooner rather than later. But there’s more to this whole situation than “the eyeball test” which I’m quickly beginning to think most posters here aren’t very good at administering anyway.
 

ragnarok725

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I’m not sure how many times it needs to be repeated but let’s do it again:

In real time the interception looked ghastly. I actually gasped when it happened and thought Mac was just throwing it to nowhere. On replay, it’s clearly a miscommunication between Mac and Meyers who each expect the ball in a different place – Mac out, Meyers in. That’s not the first time that’s happened this year. Parker zigged when Mac zagged against the Ravens earlier this year and it may well be on Mac. But like that INT, he wasn’t just chucking the ball up there a la Zack Wilson.

He’s not a finished product. He needs to become one sooner rather than later. But there’s more to this whole situation than “the eyeball test” which I’m quickly beginning to think most posters here aren’t very good at administering anyway.
This may well be the case, but it looks to me like Meyers has completed his break by the time Mac is winding up - there should have been an effort to pull it back down or throw it into the ground.

I've been defending Mac all year on his miscommunication INTs - a lot of them have looked like this. But at some point it honestly doesn't matter how they happen if they keep happening. At least Wilson made a Big Play down the field to go with his mistakes.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Sep 10, 2017
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I’m not sure how many times it needs to be repeated but let’s do it again:

In real time the interception looked ghastly. I actually gasped when it happened and thought Mac was just throwing it to nowhere. On replay, it’s clearly a miscommunication between Mac and Meyers who each expect the ball in a different place – Mac out, Meyers in. That’s not the first time that’s happened this year. Parker zigged when Mac zagged against the Ravens earlier this year and it may well be on Mac. But like that INT, he wasn’t just chucking the ball up there a la Zack Wilson.

He’s not a finished product. He needs to become one sooner rather than later. But there’s more to this whole situation than “the eyeball test” which I’m quickly beginning to think most posters here aren’t very good at administering anyway.
Not sure if it is a live read or set route, but if it is live then it was the right decision by Meyers and horrible from Mac. Not only was Meyers' defender leaning outside, but there were 3 Jets around even with the numbers within 5 yards of the interception. That should have been a "no throw" zone for Mac. I'd need to see the all 22 angle, but Meyers may have gotten all the way to the end zone if the slant he was running was executed.

Edit: It looks like Meyers faked out his own QB with the stutter step outward before the slant move. His defender was staring right back at Mac so that fake did nothing one way or the other to him.
 

Eddie Jurak

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He really didn't play well enough to win.

Mac put his team down 17-3 going into the half,
Mac by himself, or was it more of a team effort, particularly by his line.
Yes the O-line was not good but this is not a QB that is elevating the team. Taking 6 sacks many of them horrendous in his lack of awareness and timing combined with the recklessness in his running approach suggests he’s going to get himself hurt again.
Maybe he’s pressing to make a play but there has to be a good sense of self-preservation for this critical position that we are not seeing right now.
Hmmm... I wonder if there is some sort of connection between the terible line play and the sacks?

Mac is struggling, no doubt, and sacks are bad, but better to eat the ball a bunch of times than chuck it downfield in desperation, as Mac has been developing the habit of doung this year, and as Zach Wilson did yesterday, resulting in multiple picks.

Mac is very messed up right now and playing poorly, but yesyerday was a step in the right direction.
 

8slim

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The OL stinks *and* it may be that Mac makes it worse. He’s holding the ball a long time on many drop backs. Maybe Patricia is calling too many slow-developing plays. It’s possible. Also possible Mac isn’t throwing quickly enough and is exacerbating the OL protection issues.

In other words, it can be both.
 

BaseballJones

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Well, play action plays tend to be slower developing. So everyone is calling for more play action, but that also means more slower-developing pass plays. Why don't they run RPO stuff, which Mac excels at?
 

PedrosRedGlove

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Dec 5, 2005
653
I’m not sure how many times it needs to be repeated but let’s do it again:

In real time the interception looked ghastly. I actually gasped when it happened and thought Mac was just throwing it to nowhere. On replay, it’s clearly a miscommunication between Mac and Meyers who each expect the ball in a different place – Mac out, Meyers in. That’s not the first time that’s happened this year. Parker zigged when Mac zagged against the Ravens earlier this year and it may well be on Mac. But like that INT, he wasn’t just chucking the ball up there a la Zack Wilson.

He’s not a finished product. He needs to become one sooner rather than later. But there’s more to this whole situation than “the eyeball test” which I’m quickly beginning to think most posters here aren’t very good at administering anyway.
Does this make it that much better? I'm not football expert so no clue on the mechanics of the actual play. The CB has inside leverage on Meyers so I'd assume as a casual that the outside throw might be the read... but the CB also appears keyed on that throw, paying most of his attention to Mac Jones and the flat in front of him. I'm not sure he even sees Meyers cut around him and to the inside.

Also, even if Meyers and Jones are on the same page... is the result going to be any different? Meyers never really flashes open, and I don't see how that ball gets around or over the defender even if he had.

I really don't know with Mac at this point. As others have said, it seems like he offers more downside potential than upside. Saying he outperformed Zach Wilson yesterday is the lowest of bars, Wilson basically single handedly gave away the game. The offense just doesn't flow with him, and his control of it seems questionable at times. Credit to the Jets, they do have a top 10 defense, but something still feels off. The 4th and 1 is most concerning, the play was simple, the play was there. Mac can't pull the trigger, panics, and awkwardly freelances a ball over everyone's head. For whatever reason, his composure is regressing this year.
 

Devizier

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All of this discussion reminds me of how difficult it is to win with an average (or thereabouts) quarterback. Of course a ton of teams have them, that’s by definition. But having an elite quarterback is such a game changer. I know this is not a novel insight.
 

8slim

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Well, play action plays tend to be slower developing. So everyone is calling for more play action, but that also means more slower-developing pass plays. Why don't they run RPO stuff, which Mac excels at?
Not all of the drop backs where he’s holding the ball a long time are play action, but I get your point. I’m assuming the lack of RPO is due to his ankle.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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I’m not sure how many times it needs to be repeated but let’s do it again:

In real time the interception looked ghastly. I actually gasped when it happened and thought Mac was just throwing it to nowhere. On replay, it’s clearly a miscommunication between Mac and Meyers who each expect the ball in a different place – Mac out, Meyers in. That’s not the first time that’s happened this year. Parker zigged when Mac zagged against the Ravens earlier this year and it may well be on Mac. But like that INT, he wasn’t just chucking the ball up there a la Zack Wilson.

He’s not a finished product. He needs to become one sooner rather than later. But there’s more to this whole situation than “the eyeball test” which I’m quickly beginning to think most posters here aren’t very good at administering anyway.
It was still pretty bad. Meyers has already made his decision and move before Mac releases that ball. Also, the defender has great position for where Mac is throwing it even if Meyers had broken that way all you're getting is someone to make the tackle or break it up. That's a terrible decision and throw EVEN if Mac thought Meyers was going to break it outside. It's late, soft and in a spot the defender always had as good or better positioning on than the WR.
 

BaseballJones

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Oct 1, 2015
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All of this discussion reminds me of how difficult it is to win with an average (or thereabouts) quarterback. Of course a ton of teams have them, that’s by definition. But having an elite quarterback is such a game changer. I know this is not a novel insight.
Yeah exactly. It's why most teams can look good one week and terrible the next - because their QB is capable of doing some wonderful things and also some awful things, and there's no real consistency. That's the bulk of the NFL. It's why it was SUCH a privilege having Tom Brady at QB for 20 years for this team. Honestly. Think about that for a minute. Think about what a frigging GIFT that was as a fan.
 

Pesky Pole

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I can't believe I'm typing this but perhaps Josh McDaniels is available again soon. After Derek Carr put up 101 passing yards and a pick against one of the worst defenses in the league, the Raiders were shut out 24-0 (Stidham was 8/13 for 72 yards in garbage time). We can complain about Mac but imagine having Davante Adams and he gets 1 catch for 3 yards on 5 targets. That said, if Josh is the security blanket that Mac needs, go bring him back (if and when he gets fired).
 

tims4wins

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Mac is very messed up right now and playing poorly, but yesyerday was a step in the right direction.
I would amend this to say the 2nd half was a step in the right direction. The first half featured the pick, the roughing pick, and the 4th and 1 play.

Edit: I also wanted to say that for as much as yesterday was an ugly win at best, I think they lose that game last year. Under Mac they have rarely shown the ability to come from behind. Of course if the pick-6 stands, they lose yesterday, zero doubt on that. So maybe I'm giving the team too much credit for a gift call.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Well, play action plays tend to be slower developing. So everyone is calling for more play action, but that also means more slower-developing pass plays. Why don't they run RPO stuff, which Mac excels at?
I don't mind slower developing, because it's been well proven that play action instinctively freezes the defenders, giving the QB more time to make a read and throw.

I am begging them to use more play action, especially considering the real threat Stevenson and Harris are in the running game.
 

EricFeczko

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Apr 26, 2014
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It really feels like some people criticizing Jones don't watch much NFL beyond the Patriots. What we saw today between the Pats and Jets is what many other fans across the league get week in and week out from what I've seen. It almost feels like a typical Thursday Night game this season.

This isn't to say Jones is or isn't the "guy" but its also an acknowledgement that he still might be with the right seasoning. I know some have already made up their minds its not happening and I am not here to sell anyone otherwise.

However, it really feels like the bar of the Pats needing to have the next Brady/Mahomes/Allen to compete is simply unrealistic. Those guys come along very infrequently.
This is a terrible take, based on this season alone. Mac is getting support is due to his past performance and potential, not on how he has played this season.

Currently, Mac ranks 34th out 35 QBs in ANY/A -- in between Baker Mayfield and Kenny Pickett.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/passing.htm
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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He really didn't play well enough to win.
And yet they won. People can choose not to count his contribution and furthermore nobody here seems to be suggesting that Jones played well.

However, is irrefutable that Mac did enough for the Patriots to win a game that they inarguably won.

Nobody here is disputing that Jones made some bad decisions or has looked like he is lost in spots.

Some of us disagree about what it means going forward. And some of us have been around these parts long enough to know that debating how the future plays out in the present is essentially madness.

If you are right - and many people are so certain that they are - you will be proven so in the fullness of time.
 
Aug 9, 2015
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I can't believe I'm typing this but perhaps Josh McDaniels is available again soon. After Derek Carr put up 101 passing yards and a pick against one of the worst defenses in the league, the Raiders were shut out 24-0 (Stidham was 8/13 for 72 yards in garbage time). We can complain about Mac but imagine having Davante Adams and he gets 1 catch for 3 yards on 5 targets. That said, if Josh is the security blanket that Mac needs, go bring him back (if and when he gets fired).
I couldn’t watch this game but the stats read like a team already quitting on the coach/system. Is that happening? Would be a real shame (for him) if McDaniels waited all this time for his next gig and then lost it in a year. The only thing that might save him is an all-in Brady year in 2023.