So people can’t comment on what’s happening right now, because we had Brady previously and don’t watch enough NFL. And they can’t speculate what it means for the future, because it’s the future. Why exactly does a message board exist then? I guess we should just read the box scores and wait for the next game quietly?
I stand by my statement that erratic QB play is pretty common around the league. My take may be the worst ever seen in these forums but I don't see me arguing that Jones is good in any way at present. I have seen the data and its not pretty.
All due respect, but this is getting tiresome. Who is saying improvement isn't possible?
What specifically today? His OL wasn't good and BB said he did a good job making decisions, etc.
Positivity or just spreading the responsibility around?
i appreciate the rhetorical device: I’m not there either and we are all just message boarding.
. i don’t watch Detroit, but bad coaching was all over that team too.
I thought it looked like they dialed the offense way back in the 2nd half, like early 2021 stuff of "how do we keep the QB from fucking this up".
Except.... it's not a binary, it's a complex situation with many factors, which you have both reduced to a binary then chosen the option that appeals to what you hope is the case without any evidence (arguably against what little evidence there is).i appreciate the rhetorical device: I’m not there either and we are all just message boarding.
Option 1: Mac has crumbled to the ground and shown he’s incapable of executing a series of drives.
Option 2: Losing an epically talented OC and replacing him with two buddies who have zero experience, let alone success, was a bad choice and set their prized rookie back to the dark ages.
I also watch lots of Giants games and they basically ruined Daniel Jones with appalling coaching (before you ask, I wasn’t I those film rooms either
I’m going option 2. Btw, I know it’s heresy to challenge BBs supremacy in all things, so I’ll note he he actually could still be right here….ie Matt P might eventually learns to be a good OC: he’s reportedly brilliant. I just didn’t want to flush another year (like the Cam year) because Bill lo longer trusts his ability to retain young talented coaches so he needs the BoBos back.
it’s the job of the QB to elevate and maximize the team: and its the coaches to maximize the QB.
fwiw, if your specific point is no one told Mac to throw the pick that should have ended the game, that’s true too. Mac is seeing ghosts on the field, and I think off it.
I love the pats so much, and was there for them in the Hart Lee Dykes era and cringed for the Veris, Tippet and Lippett week so it’s a little raw feeling this way….as others have communicated as well I think.
As some have noted, and maybe you too CD, this is also how they started Brady. Not checking game logs, but I remember thinking he never threw past line of scrimmage the first month.
Well, Bill would obviously know better than me. And look I get what everyone is saying and I hope that was just post game eye test shit reaction. But he looks awful to me. Just terrible. I am not an advanced metrics guy or an Xs and Os guy but the pass he made that could have lost the game was one of the worst passes I have ever seen. It is not fair to judge a player on one play or even 20 plays and even Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes has made terrible passes like that. But that is in the context of an otherwise great body of work where is stands out. Nothing about that pass stands out. I could see him doing it next week. It seemed consistent not inconsistent. That was kind of the realization I had yesterday that bummed me out. There was nothing shocking about that pass.
Quite so, and yes it’s complex.
True, but they were also protecting a lead on every drive in the second half after scoring on the first drive, and a 2 possession lead for a few of them. Safe throws are perfect. And on that first drive, there were 6 plays--4 passes and 2 runs, including a pass called on 4th and 1, when a FG would tie the game. Additionally, many of those passes were on 1st down--picking up 5, 6, 9 yards on 1st down is okay with me when protecting a lead.
You're hoping that it's coaching and not predominately Mac's failings. I agree that there should be some concern about the coaches, but.... Mac has been bad beyond that, and his struggles really started last year when he had an excellent O-Coordinator/QB coach.
OL was very shaky, nearly had a pick-6 based on QB-WR communication, and they were playing with a lead. Game-management was the task, manage the lead to a win, and that's what the team (and QB) did.
They did have a very confusing series after stopping the Jets on 4th down where they threw three times to no avail despite the rather obvious need to burn some clock. That's the first time in a while I wondered about the play calling.
Let's actually be factual or try not exaggerate everything. At least for me, I tend to tune out people who take the over the top extreme method. As said, this isn't a binary situation.
Yeah. That was terrible situational awareness in terms of down and distance. Just get the first down. But.........on any other down and distance, it looks like he nicely waved Meyers into a wide open space past the guy that jumped the route. 4th and 1 was not the time for that, though.
Ha, you should get my therapy co-pay this week! Yes, I suppose that’s what I’m hoping and it’s a good point that college is a pretty loose prediction, but Mac has already showed ‘pro style ‘ success under Daniels.
If Meyers moves a second earlier it's a walk in TD. But, as you say, that's not the proper read.
Correct on both counts. That play was there to be had. Meyers heads upfield a second earlier and it's absolutely an easy TD. Mac saw the opening and was trying to get Meyers to see it too. Just a bit too late. But also...yeah, on that play, all they needed was the little easy flip to Henry for the automatic first down and keep the drive going. THAT play was also there to be had. Not sure how Mac didn't see it.
Ok, yes it’s hyperbolic and yes they have tons of experience in the NFL. That said, they clearly didn’t have adequate experience for the job they are doing.now and the team is just as clearly suffering for it.
Isn't that part of the process of learning? Sure its disappointing to see - but its also a teachable moment for a young QB that needs to make good decisions to be successful.
I'm guessing lack of game play and confidence. We saw Zappe do the same thing in OT against GB when he had Henry open for the 1st. Just not processing the game fast enough and not confident enough to zip that throw in there. That's a throw that needs to be made, and that's a throw Mac has to learn to make.
Most of us in this thread also love the Pats and want more of the recent successes. It’s hard to read how it’s the coaches fault for a QB making terrible decisions on the field. If Mac would stop throwing to wide open DB’s so we don’t have to kneel on 3rd down to ensure a FGA it would be helpful for all of us to achieve the goal of the Pats winning games.i appreciate the rhetorical device: I’m not there either and we are all just message boarding.
Option 1: Mac has crumbled to the ground and shown he’s incapable of executing a series of drives.
Option 2: Losing an epically talented OC and replacing him with two buddies who have zero experience, let alone success, was a bad choice and set their prized rookie back to the dark ages.
I also watch lots of Giants games and they basically ruined Daniel Jones with appalling coaching (before you ask, I wasn’t I those film rooms either
I’m going option 2. Btw, I know it’s heresy to challenge BBs supremacy in all things, so I’ll note he he actually could still be right here….ie Matt P might eventually learns to be a good OC: he’s reportedly brilliant. I just didn’t want to flush another year (like the Cam year) because Bill lo longer trusts his ability to retain young talented coaches so he needs the BoBos back.
it’s the job of the QB to elevate and maximize the team: and its the coaches to maximize the QB.
fwiw, if your specific point is no one told Mac to throw the pick that should have ended the game, that’s true too. Mac is seeing ghosts on the field, and I think off it.
I love the pats so much, and was there for them in the Hart Lee Dykes era and cringed for the Veris, Tippet and Lippett week so it’s a little raw feeling this way….as others have communicated as well I think.
I think it was the perfect example of a QB who's swimming. We all watched the GOAT make that simple read to Edelman/Welker/Brown countless times. That was a play that any NFL QB should be able to make. You know when calling the play that Henry is your primary read. His brain should have already been thinking Henry. Then, that safety comes up and rushes him a bit and he completely loses his head and panics when there was absolutely no reason to do so.
This is also a situation where being in shotgun hurts him. The DBs know it's going to be a pass, so they can key in from the snap. I would have vastly preferred Mac being under center, then they can run play-action or have other, better options.
It's possible he was worried about Meyers's guy jumping Henry's route. The DB *did* sort of head in that direction, which is what gave Meyers the open space behind. But the play there is the immediate-release pass to Henry.
Yeah to me that looks like a lot of indecision not being sure where the defender coming is, and also... his feet are a disaster that whole play,at no point are they in a position to throw to anybody. Just pure Bambi-legs. He's just deep in his head and to quote Sam Darnold "seeing ghosts", he's getting pressure, but then he's not sure when/where there is pressure so sometimes he's feeling pressure that isn't there, and his footwork which already wasn't great (way too many fadeaway Aaron Rodgers attempts last year without Rodgers' arm) has gotten way worse. He shuffles and chops, he never really plants and he rarely steps into his throws... that's a bad idea even if you have a cannon, it's really bad if you're on the low end of arm strength like Mac.
Yeah, I think the move to shotgun is actually them accomodating him. He played almost all Shotgun in college and it seems like they are trying to make him comfortable to figure out what is going wrong with him so they're simplifying things for him in terms of getting him back in his familiar spot, making it easier for him to see the defense and eliminating any worry about dropping back. Not sure it's working, but definitely seems like that and adding in some Sarkesian plays is about Mac's comfort level.
Yes, I hear you, it’s hard to attribute and I wish he could stop chucking picks too!
About where I'm at. Mac looks like his hair is on fire on every single play, hold the ball too long, makes too many dumb throws, and takes terrible sacks.
This is where I'm trending. I'm all for being patient with Mac, but also at some point he has to start showing more improvement... instead he actually appears to be going backwards for whatever reason. The biggest concern is that the things he's lacking in right now: awareness, reads, pocket presence, were supposed to be his strengths.
It will be the one that directly connects Mac's struggles with the team's various issues (new OC, OL, etc.), rather than just being like South Park gnome underpants speculation.
100%.
Physically he's not a difference maker (foot or arm) but as Brady showed the head is most important and thats in there for Mac somewhere still. To me, the case for eventual success is 1) last year's success 2) pedigree and 3) better coaching as the new guys learn on the job.
Slight difference (though the outcomes I agree with) from where I'm sitting: I'm not sure he was constantly plagued by happy feet, but there is something going on and he then sure does the dumb thing anyway.
Right. In year one he looked like the guy who was going to make consistently great decisions and reads and all indicia were that he was doing well there; while we don't have all the information it seems like he's not at good at that stuff five games into his second year. Is it playing under pressure, being under pressure from a wonky line, bad game planning, bad playcalling, Jones being too aggressive trying to make plays in a way that can be reeled back, Jones being too aggressive trying to make plays in a way that can't be reeled back? Hard to tell. I did take yesterday as a moderate step forward in that he looked ok with not too many mistakes on the road against a good defense with his o-line struggling in a division game after having been benched quickly the previous week and coming off an injury. But ok obviously isn't good enough; he's got to at least get to "pretty decent with almost no mistakes" for this team to have a chance at winning playoff games.
No one should bail, that'd be silly.
He'd probably have to be top 5 from here out to get to top 16 overall, depending what metric you use he's arguably not top 30 right now:
Definitely another thing the staff added this week to try and get him on track, most RPO run of any Mac Jones game so far in his career
