The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

BaseballJones

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If our usually reliable placekicker makes those two field goals, it's 16-3, and the conversation about the NE QB is slightly less vitriolic today. A reminder.
Well..... no. The Jets wouldn't be punting to the Patriots there at the end, so wipe that TD away. The score would likely be 9-3 with the Jets having the ball and going for it on fourth down at the end of the game there. At the least, they wouldn't be playing it so conservatively. Which could mean Wilson hits some big passes OR throws a pick. We don't know, but for sure that TD on the punt return wouldn't have happened.
 

johnmd20

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Well..... no. The Jets wouldn't be punting to the Patriots there at the end, so wipe that TD away. The score would likely be 9-3 with the Jets having the ball and going for it on fourth down at the end of the game there. At the least, they wouldn't be playing it so conservatively. Which could mean Wilson hits some big passes OR throws a pick. We don't know, but for sure that TD on the punt return wouldn't have happened.
That is very true. But we do know if they went for it on 4th down, there is no doubt the Pats D would have scored on the play due to Zach Wilson incompetence, so 16-3 is still in play.
 

8slim

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One or the other here. It could be that the passing game so not dangerous in stretching the field, teams can load up and focus on stopping Rham and Harris.

Also, if the line is horrendous in pass protect, it is likely it's not doing a great job at run blocking. Obviously they are different skills, but a line that is a sieve is a sieve.
I'm far from an expert on OL play, but it sure seems like a lot of Stevenson's recent good runs have been mostly from tremendous individual effort. Not a lot of grinding out 5 yard runs because the OL is road grading. I'm a broken record, but I think the OL generally stinks and has been, by far, the most disappointing unit this season.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm far from an expert on OL play, but it sure seems like a lot of Stevenson's recent good runs have been mostly from tremendous individual effort. Not a lot of grinding out 5 yard runs because the OL is road grading. I'm a broken record, but I think the OL generally stinks and has been, by far, the most disappointing unit this season.
I think they're mediocre. One thing I have noticed, it seems like Stevenson is amazing at breaking tackles and making guys miss, but I think Harris is clearly better at finding where to go at the point of attack and hitting it. Rham makes things happen but sometimes misses the easy stuff. Harris is less likely to break a bunch of tackles, but he also will hit the hole decisively. Yesterday was some of that to me.. The Jets have a good D, you need to find the hole immediately or they swallow stuff up, Rham didn't, Harris did and that's why he was more effective.
 

54thMA

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I'm going to reserve judgement on Mac Jones until a.) the Patriots hire an OC who's an actual OC/has called plays extensively at the college or pro level, not a guy/two guys who/who've never done this before and b.) the Patriots find offensive linemen who are actual offensive lineman and can hold their blocks long enough to give an NFL QB adequate time to process the field and throw the ball to the open receiver.

If both of those things happen next year and he does not do any better, then I'm done with the Mac Jones experiment and for me, it will be time to move on.
 

SMU_Sox

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Harris is a better cutback artist and the Jets often had the front side of the play and the bounce covered.

Zappe looked like crap in the pocket vs GB but looked better vs the Browns and Lions. However those are two of the worst defenses in the league. There are 48 QBs who have faced at least 5 pressures this year. Of those 48 Bailey has faced the tied for 5th least pressure % of his drop backs. He looks good in the pocket because he wasn’t challenged often.

Oddly enough both guys are in the top 3rd for pressure to sack conversation rates (not a good thing but probably highly volatile).
 

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worm0082

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I posted something close to this in 2021 and got my hand slapped because it came from Walter Football. Below are pre-draft comments on Wilson from one NFC director of college scouting:


The chickens have come home to roost.
Oooof. That’s a brutal assessment. And now appears to be correct. Manziel aside , probably the most entitled and unlikable QB since Ryan Leaf. He’s definitely matching both of them in the on field production department.
 

mcpickl

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Thanks for bringing this up, SMU_Sox, because I think this is one of the main reasons that I grow frustrated when watching Mac in the QB position. He may still be healing from an ankle injury, so it's not quite fair for me to say this, but he seems almost completely helpless when pressure builds. I am having trouble recalling the last time that he escaped from a heavy rush, or took off to run for a first down, or even positive yards. Yes, I know he has done so, but has it happened much in the past few games? The difference between his reactions to pressure and those of recent opponents' QBs -- Wilson and Fields, especially -- is night and day.

And yes, I know that this is a minor component of a quarterback's skill set: reading the defense, making good decisions, and being able to throw the ball accurately -- those are more important, sure. It's just a personal, visceral reaction that hits me when I watch him fold up gently. Probably more my problem than his.
He had scrambled for at least one first down in 4 consecutive games (last 2 games before injury, first 2 games post injury) before the last two games. Had a handful of positive gains on scrambles in those games that weren't first downs as well.
 

Granite Sox

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Can someone who is able, post video of / break down the 6 sacks?

I just watched the last sack. 9:01 of the 4th. 1st and 10 from their own 44. Play action pass. By the time Mac is looking down field, the DE is around Jonnu. Mac had zero chance.

I didn’t see all 6 sacks live. But at least 2-3 sacks were exactly like this.

I’m neither pro nor anti Mac. I think in some previous games he was definitely responsible for some of the sacks.

I’m not sure how much that was the case today.
Bedard had an article today specifically examining this question: https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2022/11/21/how-many-of-the-patriots-sacks-were-on-mac-jones-vs-jets

Recognizing its behind a paywall, here’s the conclusion:
Overall, we fault the line with four of the sacks, the team execution on one, and Jones was responsible for perhaps the most costly sack when Nick Folk's field goal attempt was pushed back and went off the cross bar.
 

StupendousMan

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He had scrambled for at least one first down in 4 consecutive games (last 2 games before injury, first 2 games post injury) before the last two games. Had a handful of positive gains on scrambles in those games that weren't first downs as well.
Thank you very much for looking up this information.
 

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I was joking, obviously, basically saying the best bet for the Pats is having Mac play for another team.
I figured so, but just in case anyone was getting ideas about Kafka.

I know Daniel Jones is a punchline to most people, but they've shown a number of Giants games in Philly, and I'm convinced if he were playing for the other team in that stadium, the Jets could easily be leading the division, that's how well he's played under Daboll and Kafka.

To keep this on thread: I'm not giving up on Mac, because it's not unusual for it to come together for some guys later than it does other ones. Josh Allen took three years to become a legitimate weapon, as has Tua. But if Mac makes a jump next year it will start with getting him in a smarter scheme and protecting him better.
 

BaseballJones

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I'm sure Mac Jones would be much better if he had Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle as his wide receivers.

But yes, for some people it takes several years to become really good. I have no doubt that BB is playing the long game here (maybe in addition to the short game...maybe he thinks that Mac is better NOW than Zappe is), needing to give Mac time to develop, and being willing to go through the growing pains of that process.
 

lexrageorge

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I'm sure Mac Jones would be much better if he had Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle as his wide receivers.

But yes, for some people it takes several years to become really good. I have no doubt that BB is playing the long game here (maybe in addition to the short game...maybe he thinks that Mac is better NOW than Zappe is), needing to give Mac time to develop, and being willing to go through the growing pains of that process.
Of course, there is really not much of an alternative this season, barring injury. I honestly do believe if Belichick thought Zappe gave them a clear cut better chance of winning games this season, he would start Zappe.

The inflection point occurs when it's time to decide on Mac's 5th year option at the end of next season.
 

EricFeczko

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This season, the Jets' pass defense has allowed:

63.2% completion (#10)
200.8 yards per game (#11)
9 touchdowns (#2)
77.2 passer rating (#5)
5.9 yds/att
they have 11 INT (#3)

Against this pass defense, Mac Jones went 23-27 (85.2%), 246 yds, 9.1 y/a, 0 td, 0 int, 104.6 rating. In a strong and swirling wind. In a game where he was pressured constantly.
Additionally the Jets have one of the best pressure games in the league -- something like 25 percent of passing plays involve some form of pressure (pats are higher ranked at nearly 30 percent of plays).

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/opp.htm

I think Mac Jones definitely showed improvement -- but was still playing like a backup game manager instead of the best rookie QB in 2021.

That being said, the game on sunday raised Mac Jones season line to this:

57949
Make no mistake though, that 4.71 ANY/A ranks 4th worst in the league -- he's still playing around Baker Maysfield level.

I think Pittsburgh is an good test for Mac, similar to earlier game in the season with Miami. Pittsburgh doesn't provide much pressure, and has one of the weaker passing defenses in the league (opposing QBs have thrown 6.8 ANY/A against them). We should see Mac attempt more downfield throws, and can evaluate his decision making on the basis of more concrete attempts ( as opposed to a game where throwing was next-to-impossible leading to a lot of short dumps).
 

DJnVa

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I think Pittsburgh is an good test for Mac, similar to earlier game in the season with Miami.
I anticipate Mac going 21/35 against Pittsburgh, throwing for 252 yards, hitting Agholor for a long TD. Pats win, maybe like 17-14.
 

EricFeczko

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I anticipate Mac going 21/35 against Pittsburgh, throwing for 252 yards, hitting Agholor for a long TD. Pats win, maybe like 17-14.
Lol, braincramp on my part, thanks for catching that :)

The vikings are pretty much average in terms of passing defense, with slightly better pressure numbers than coverage. Still remains a good test for Mac.
 

Cellar-Door

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I figured so, but just in case anyone was getting ideas about Kafka.

I know Daniel Jones is a punchline to most people, but they've shown a number of Giants games in Philly, and I'm convinced if he were playing for the other team in that stadium, the Jets could easily be leading the division, that's how well he's played under Daboll and Kafka.

To keep this on thread: I'm not giving up on Mac, because it's not unusual for it to come together for some guys later than it does other ones. Josh Allen took three years to become a legitimate weapon, as has Tua. But if Mac makes a jump next year it will start with getting him in a smarter scheme and protecting him better.
One note on this since it comes up all the time in this thread......
Both of these guys were better in their 2nd year than their 1st. In fact most players who are poor early and make significant progress over their careers (not as big a group as you'd think) see significant growth from year 1 to 2.
 

Super Nomario

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I figured so, but just in case anyone was getting ideas about Kafka.

I know Daniel Jones is a punchline to most people, but they've shown a number of Giants games in Philly, and I'm convinced if he were playing for the other team in that stadium, the Jets could easily be leading the division, that's how well he's played under Daboll and Kafka.

To keep this on thread: I'm not giving up on Mac, because it's not unusual for it to come together for some guys later than it does other ones. Josh Allen took three years to become a legitimate weapon, as has Tua. But if Mac makes a jump next year it will start with getting him in a smarter scheme and protecting him better.
I would say it IS unusual, but it is not unheard of. Allen's growth pattern (flat-out bad his first two years but eventually becoming MVP caliber) is very rare.
 

Shelterdog

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I'm not a Mac Stan or Hater, but... yeah if this is the ceiling, the building ain't big enough.
I feel better than most about the Jets game--the combo of bad weather, injuries on the o-line, and a pretty good jets defense combines to make me think he played like a middle of the road starter in tough circumstances--but the challenge is that f you're just middle of the road or a bit better than middle of the road than the rest of your team has to be absolutely fantastic for the team to compete for the first round bye, home field in playoffs, possible superbowls etc.
 

SMU_Sox

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I anticipate Mac going 21/35 against Pittsburgh, throwing for 252 yards, hitting Agholor for a long TD. Pats win, maybe like 17-14.
Belly laugh achieved.

I wish there was a stat or a way to look at how badly an OL was beaten and be able to compare that across the league. Like with the last game I didn’t think Mac had much of a chance on like half or 4/6 of those sacks because those OLs got destroyed. I’ve seen enough replays to feel comfortable saying 3-4 of those sacks are completely on the team and not him and he didn’t really have a chance to throw it away or escape pressure. If you had a way of looking how badly 1 or more of his OL got beaten on a sack you could come up with an adjusted sack rate. I wish I had that for Mac. It’s also hard to have an internal clock when the line keeps shifting around.

Oddly enough the first play of the game I kind of wonder why he didn’t throw the screen to Rham. Does he think the defender can make a play on Rham or the ball? Seemed like the right play imo. What do you all think?
 

Saints Rest

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Belly laugh achieved.

I wish there was a stat or a way to look at how badly an OL was beaten and be able to compare that across the league. Like with the last game I didn’t think Mac had much of a chance on like half or 4/6 of those sacks because those OLs got destroyed. I’ve seen enough replays to feel comfortable saying 3-4 of those sacks are completely on the team and not him and he didn’t really have a chance to throw it away or escape pressure. If you had a way of looking how badly 1 or more of his OL got beaten on a sack you could come up with an adjusted sack rate. I wish I had that for Mac. It’s also hard to have an internal clock when the line keeps shifting around.

Oddly enough the first play of the game I kind of wonder why he didn’t throw the screen to Rham. Does he think the defender can make a play on Rham or the ball? Seemed like the right play imo. What do you all think?
I watched that play a bunch earlier today -- I think it was Lazar doing a video analysis of each sack. Lazar felt that Jones' progression was Henry, Smith, then Rham, but by the time he saw that both TE's were covered, he was sacked. I think Lazar said 2.7 seconds from snap to sack.
To my eyes, even if Jones had looked left to Rham first, I think Rham gets tackled behind the LOS as it looked to me like both DB's had read that play and were already abandoning the WRs to chase Rham.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Belly laugh achieved.

I wish there was a stat or a way to look at how badly an OL was beaten and be able to compare that across the league. Like with the last game I didn’t think Mac had much of a chance on like half or 4/6 of those sacks because those OLs got destroyed. I’ve seen enough replays to feel comfortable saying 3-4 of those sacks are completely on the team and not him and he didn’t really have a chance to throw it away or escape pressure. If you had a way of looking how badly 1 or more of his OL got beaten on a sack you could come up with an adjusted sack rate. I wish I had that for Mac. It’s also hard to have an internal clock when the line keeps shifting around.

Oddly enough the first play of the game I kind of wonder why he didn’t throw the screen to Rham. Does he think the defender can make a play on Rham or the ball? Seemed like the right play imo. What do you all think?
It was to Harris. I just rewatched it on the All-22, and I have no clue what Mac was doing there. The two receivers to the left are blocking, and Strange was rushing to do the same. That throw is there.

He seemed to look to Henry running an in route from the right side. Why isn’t he looking at Harris as the primary? And if Henry is the primary then why is Strange vacating protection to run what is a fake screen off a swing route?
 

sezwho

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I figured so, but just in case anyone was getting ideas about Kafka.

I know Daniel Jones is a punchline to most people, but they've shown a number of Giants games in Philly, and I'm convinced if he were playing for the other team in that stadium, the Jets could easily be leading the division, that's how well he's played under Daboll and Kafka.

To keep this on thread: I'm not giving up on Mac, because it's not unusual for it to come together for some guys later than it does other ones. Josh Allen took three years to become a legitimate weapon, as has Tua. But if Mac makes a jump next year it will start with getting him in a smarter scheme and protecting him better.
I also watch a fair bit of Giant football and he's not a joke. I actually felt back for the guy over the last couple years watching that offense try to un-bleep itself. Both he and the Giants may be punching a bit above their weight at moment but something is clearly different now.

To get back to thread topic, I'm not necessarily drawing a direct line for the improvement to Judge's departure but I am hoping any lessons learned through his experience will payoff for Mac.
 

sezwho

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Belly laugh achieved.

I wish there was a stat or a way to look at how badly an OL was beaten and be able to compare that across the league. Like with the last game I didn’t think Mac had much of a chance on like half or 4/6 of those sacks because those OLs got destroyed. I’ve seen enough replays to feel comfortable saying 3-4 of those sacks are completely on the team and not him and he didn’t really have a chance to throw it away or escape pressure. If you had a way of looking how badly 1 or more of his OL got beaten on a sack you could come up with an adjusted sack rate. I wish I had that for Mac. It’s also hard to have an internal clock when the line keeps shifting around.

Oddly enough the first play of the game I kind of wonder why he didn’t throw the screen to Rham. Does he think the defender can make a play on Rham or the ball? Seemed like the right play imo. What do you all think?
Bedard has talked about something somewhat analogous. Its less in terms of a baseline against the rest of the league but still in terms of overall pressure allowing an offense to function. I don't have the exact number (its come up a couple times in his podcast) but I recall something like a 40% pressure rate being essentially unsustainable.

I'll try to reference specific pod / time next time it comes up. You seem data driven, much respect, so I'll be clear I realize that's not evidence itself but he at least references the film work he's done to get to the conclusion. Maybe some QBs break down with a little less or more, but essentially it seems like if the offense can't protect the qb to a pretty specific level there's just only so much one person can do before the life preservation instinct starts to take over for making a read progression.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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According to Mike Reiss, the Pats are 31st out of 32 teams in red-zone offense.
I don't know if there's a stat that measures it, but it feels as though the Patriots are not just bad in the red zone but also generally bad on the opponent's side of the field. I can think of so many punts from the 42 or whatever, and I can also remember a few times where they were comfortably in field goal range but ended up taking a penalty or a sack that made it a harder field goal, but Folk bailed them out.

Maybe part of it is that Bill trusts his defense so three points seems like a fairly big deal and they get conservative. It's not like they are gangbusters on their side of the field but things seem to change pretty dramatically at least in terms of squishy stuff like feel and eye test once they hit the opponent's 40.
 

tims4wins

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His completion % and YPA are higher than last year. ANY/A still well behind due to the sacks. Passer rating up to 87.3 vs. 92.5 last year. None of these are perfect or sometimes even good stats. But, all is not lost.

Also, passer rating by week
Bears 16.7
Jets 1 79.9
Indy 89.2
Jets 2 104.6
Vikes 119.8

So, progress.
 

BaseballJones

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Surprised this thread hasn’t been bumped yet.

Definitely his best performance of the season. Caveats bring it was against a weak defense and he still took untimely and costly sacks. But this was a vast improvement.
When you phrase it as "he took untimely and costly sacks" that strongly implies that you're blaming HIM for the sacks. He was sacked three times. One was a completely blown blocking assignment by Trent Brown that wasn't on Mac at all. Another was him scrambling away from pressure and then sliding before reaching the line of scrimmage, which technically made it a sack. And a third was at the very end of the game when they had 53 seconds to drive 89 yards with no time outs. Of course we didn't want a sack there, but it made almost no difference whatsoever in their odds of winning that game.

Of the three, the only one that really mattered was the sack on 3rd and 7 late in the game with the Pats driving. That was the one where Trent Brown decided to cut block his guy, whiffed, and Mac got swallowed up a moment later. In another thread there's the animation of the play and not a single receiver is open or even close to it, because the play called for deeper routes and Brown for some reason thought it was a short pass - hence the cut block. What was Mac supposed to do in that situation? I guess fling it away but then you risk an interception or an intentional grounding penalty.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Surprised this thread hasn’t been bumped yet.

Definitely his best performance of the season. Caveats bring it was against a weak defense and he still took untimely and costly sacks. But this was a vast improvement.
The reflexive need to shit on him even when he plays well is something to see. A tackle attempts the wrong kind of block and whiffs on a good edge rusher who gets a sack - all Mac's fault.

Edit: To be clear, at this point in Mac's career I would not be betting on him to have long term NFL success, I think the odds are against that. But he played a very good thought not mistake free game yesterday and he ought not be blamed for things that weren't his fault.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Which sounds and looks pretty good. But he also took 6 sacks, negating about 50 yards, and led the team to 3 points while they punted seven times.

This is the essence of the Mac dilemma. He does some things well but not enough of them to put up consistent points. And his bad plays come in situations that cost the team (took sacks before Folk’s FG missed, the stupendously poor QB sneak on second down, etc).

He’s frustrating to watch. I watched the whole game and not once did I think hewas playing very well. He has a hard time overcoming any sort of negative play.
Just curious what was your opinion of last night's proformance? Some posters are blaming Mac Jones for the loss. I thought those folks are crazy but what do I know? I do think it's been good that Mac has cut down on the turnovers the past couple of games.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Of the three, the only one that really mattered was the sack on 3rd and 7 late in the game with the Pats driving. That was the one where Trent Brown decided to cut block his guy, whiffed, and Mac got swallowed up a moment later. In another thread there's the animation of the play and not a single receiver is open or even close to it, because the play called for deeper routes and Brown for some reason thought it was a short pass - hence the cut block. What was Mac supposed to do in that situation? I guess fling it away but then you risk an interception or an intentional grounding penalty.
The first one mattered, too, but it wasn't really a sack, per se, it was Mac not stopping the clock (with incomplete pass) when he could. It was a first and 10 play, had he scrambled for 5 yards (instead of zero) and still stayed in bounds it would have been every bit as bad. It compounded a dumber decision by Henry to stay in bounds earlier in the drive.
 

BaseballJones

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Mac's last four games, completions:

24-35, 68.6%, 1 td, 1 int
20-30, 66.7%, 1 td, 0 int
23-27, 85.2%, 0 td, 0 int
28-39, 71.8%, 2 td, 0 int

TOT: 95-131, 72.5%, 7.4 y/a, 4 td, 1 int, 100.4 rating

The Pats have won 3 of their last 4, against teams with a combined record of 25-16-1 (.610).
 

bsj

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Surprised this thread hasn’t been bumped yet.

Definitely his best performance of the season. Caveats bring it was against a weak defense and he still took untimely and costly sacks. But this was a vast improvement.
Good performance.
He still is eating the ball at times he should be throwing it away. But good performance.
 

Gash Prex

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I've never heard more complaining about a QB taking sacks before - and Mac is actually pretty good at evading sacks...but that doesn't fit with whatever narrative people have come up with regarding Mac. Anybody who watches the film has been shouting that it was about the protection and scheme - and not Mac.

View: https://twitter.com/tkyles39/status/1596012693257064448

Give Mac a better O-Line and a star WR and we'd be cooking. He can make the throws.
 

rodderick

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I've never heard more complaining about a QB taking sacks before - and Mac is actually pretty good at evading sacks...but that doesn't fit with whatever narrative people have come up with regarding Mac. Anybody who watches the film has been shouting that it was about the protection and scheme - and not Mac.

View: https://twitter.com/tkyles39/status/1596012693257064448

Give Mac a better O-Line and a star WR and we'd be cooking. He can make the throws.
Problem is in today's NFL there are about 24 guys in the league that can cook if provided that. Are there people who genuinely believe Mac is trash and can't play regardless of circumstance or the doubts are more over his ability to elevate the team and pull his supporting cast up instead of playing at their level?
 

BigSoxFan

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Problem is in today's NFL there are about 24 guys in the league that can cook if provided that. Are there people who genuinely believe Mac is trash and can't play regardless of circumstance or the doubts are more over his ability to elevate the team and pull his supporting cast up instead of playing at their level?
And where exactly is this "star WR" going to come from? There is absolutely nothing on the WR market. Mac is definitely improving so that is the main takeaway from me and a positive development. But the larger concerns about the offense (OL, lack of WR playmakers, Patricia, etc.) remain for me.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver//
 

Gash Prex

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Problem is in today's NFL there are about 24 guys in the league that can cook if provided that. Are there people who genuinely believe Mac is trash and can't play regardless of circumstance or the doubts are more over his ability to elevate the team and pull his supporting cast up instead of playing at their level?
Unless you are Lamar Jackson (and he has Andrews) - I don't see any QBs in the league preforming well without a star WR. Allen has Diggs, Burrow has Chase, Tua has Hill, Mahomes has Kelce, Jalen Hurts has AJ Brown etc...

Lamb made some amazing plays to make Prescott look way better. The 49ers look legit good with all their weapons with Jimmy G.

How does Rodgers look without Adams?
 

rodderick

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Unless you are Lamar Jackson (and he has Andrews) - I don't see any QBs in the league preforming well without a star WR. Allen has Diggs, Burrow has Chase, Tua has Hill, Mahomes has Kelce, Jalen Hurts has AJ Brown etc...

Lamb made some amazing plays to make Prescott look way better.

How does Rodgers look without Adams?
There's a difference between "performing well" and being Josh Allen/Joe Burrow/Patrick Mahomes, or having the year Tua has had. That's precisely what I'm saying: if you give Mac elite weapons and great protection I'm sure he could produce at the level of a top 10 QB in the regular season, but so could Alex Smith and Ryan Tannehill when they had that. I think that's the guy Mac has the highest probability of being and don't get me wrong, that's still an extremely valuable player, I just think most of the concerns (the valid ones, not talking about Felger and Mazz callers here) are over his ability to elevate above this level, not that he just can't play at all. But maybe I'm wrong.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
20,033
And where exactly is this "star WR" going to come from? There is absolutely nothing on the WR market. Mac is definitely improving so that is the main takeaway from me and a positive development. But the larger concerns about the offense (OL, lack of WR playmakers, Patricia, etc.) remain for me.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver//
And let's also note that the Bills made a huge trade for Stefon Diggs, who's been awesome for Buffalo (so the Pats could make that kind of trade). This is his third season with the Bills, and while they've gone 32-12 in that time, they haven't even made it to a Super Bowl, never mind winning one. They may do that this year or next year or whatever, but they haven't done it yet. It's really, really hard.

Which is why what the Patriots did was unfathomable.
 

lexrageorge

Member
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Jul 31, 2007
16,000
There's a difference between "performing well" and being Josh Allen/Joe Burrow/Patrick Mahomes, or having the year Tua has had. That's precisely what I'm saying: if you give Mac elite weapons and great protection I'm sure he could produce at the level of a top 10 QB in the regular season, but so could Alex Smith and Ryan Tannehill when they had that. I think that's the guy Mac has the highest probability of being and don't get me wrong, that's still an extremely valuable player, I just think most of the concerns (the valid ones, not talking about Felger and Mazz callers here) are over his ability to elevate above this level, not that he just can't play at all. But maybe I'm wrong.
I do think some posters seem to think he's just bad and should have been replaced by Zappe now. I'm sure I could scroll through this thread and find some, but anyone else can do the same.

I do believe the jury is definitely still out on the "elevate the team" level. He made some nice throws against the Vikings and was let down in a couple of cases by his receivers or the officials missing a couple of obvious holds. And the situational play calling wasn't great. But it's one game. If he can string some positive games together, then I think we can at least revisit the elevation debate.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
43,943
And let's also note that the Bills made a huge trade for Stefon Diggs, who's been awesome for Buffalo (so the Pats could make that kind of trade). This is his third season with the Bills, and while they've gone 32-12 in that time, they haven't even made it to a Super Bowl, never mind winning one. They may do that this year or next year or whatever, but they haven't done it yet. It's really, really hard.

Which is why what the Patriots did was unfathomable.
Yup but can only make those trades if one is available. But there have been quite a few available recently via trade, guys like Adams, Diggs, Hopkins, Hill, Brown, Cooper, etc. However, we never seem to be interested in these deals outside of Brandin Cooks so I think the WR group in 2023 will be comparable to the one in 2022. And depending on what happens with Meyers in FA, it could actually be worse. Doesn't matter who is at QB for the Pats - Mac or Zappe - if the OL is this bad and the WRs are just a bunch of decent-to-solid guys, it won't be easy keeping up with the elite offenses.