The Nation's Tears: Volume III

pappymojo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 28, 2010
6,668
The central flaw in this argument is that the premise is incorrect. The Patriots have had lots of players on their team that are either HOF worthy or almost that good. The issue is that most of them weren't on the team A) very long; and/or B) at the same time as one another.

Law, Milloy, McGinest, Vinatieri, Seymour, Light, Wilfork, Moss, Welker, Revis (one stellar year), and Gronk may not all make it to the HOF, but they each had HOF level stints with the Patriots.

But the thing that makes the Patriots able to succeed year after year is exactly because they don't hang on to those guys beyond the point where it no longer makes financial sense. So by their very operational design, the Patriots are not going to have reputation guys on their team for a particularly long time.
A great deal of the Patriots success is due to roster construction. For the Patriots, they are often happy to sign a good player who has both position flexibility and a willingness to sacrifice personal stats (do your job) for the greater good. That is what they value.

It's the same thing that everyone misses when they talk about the team salary and start calling the Patriots cheap because they let a free agent of theirs sign else where. While the Patriots don't often spend as much as other teams for their star players, they are happy to spend more than other teams on the middle-class of their roster.

How often have the Patriots sat out the first two days of the free agency period and then swooped in to sign a bunch of guys in those later days? Additionally, the Patriots are also more willing than other teams to allow players who lack draft pedigree to win starting positions.

If you look at some players that have been a part of this team over the years, you see some players like Vrabel, Ninkovich, Welker, etc. who were brought in as free agents (often on cheap deals) and put in a position to thrive. Then you have other players like Chandler Jones and Collins where the player was drafted but then, in many ways, held back from accumulating their stats until their rookie contracts drew to a close and they were traded in advance of their next contract. Then you have players who were given an opportunity to win a starting job on a cheap contract (Lewis, Butler, etc.), established themselves as very good players and then walked in free agency. Regardless of whether or not you consider any of the players I mentioned stars, it is clear as day that the Patriots employed those players at their height of their value (based on salary and production).

It's a little hard to establish definitive ideas of roster construction as the Patriots are always evolving and the league is always changing (comp picks, rookie contracts, etc.), but long story short: it's not a bug; it's a feature.
 
Last edited:

Carmine Hose

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 2, 2001
5,046
Dorchester, MA
Interesting text message....

My brother lives in FL and has a lot of very wealthy / high profile clients for his business. One happens to be a huge Pats fan. Reportedly this guy was told by a FBI agent buddy that Kraft is under some huge investigation and is going to be raided sooner than later. IMO there's no way an agent would risk his career leaking that, even IF it were true... but figured I'd share on the snowball's chance in hell it's true. :D
Kraft donated to the Trump inaugural I believe, and SDNY is reviewing those donations, as I am sure they have done for all previous inaugurals.
 

pappymojo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 28, 2010
6,668
Kraft donated to the Trump inaugural I believe, and SDNY is reviewing those donations, as I am sure they have done for all previous inaugurals.
He also does business in Russia and is a personal acquaintance of Putin (see the original Super Bowl ring).
 

loshjott

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2004
14,946
Silver Spring, MD
....

How often have the Patriots sat out the first two days of the free agency period and then swooped in to sign a bunch of guys in those later days? Additionally, the Patriots are also more willing than other teams to allow players who lack draft pedigree to win starting positions.

If you look at some players that have been a part of this team over the years, you see some players like Vrabel, Ninkovich, Welker, etc. who were brought in as free agents (often on cheap deals) and put in a position to thrive. Then you have other players like Chandler Jones and Collins where the player was drafted but then, in many ways, held back from accumulating their stats until their rookie contracts drew to a close and they were traded in advance of their next contract. ....
Pats traded Miami a 2nd and 7th for Welker. He was one of those guys BB had his eye on for a while.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

T&A
SoSH Member
Feb 9, 2010
5,302
Providence, RI
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-super-bowl/0ap2000000135588/Gore-33-yard-gain

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000135467/Gore-6-yard-TD-run

But yeah, because Harbaugh called three pass plays on the goal line (one of which was a clear defenseless receiver call missed), Frank Gore didn't have any big game plays.

Also Gronk did nothing in the game this year, who cares about his catch down to the 2, it was michel that ran it in right?

(signed, salty Niners fan who thinks Gore is an easy HOFer)
I think Gore is a HOFer too. I just think that there is a place in the football hall of fame for both Gore and Edelman but for different reasons.
 

Moosey

Mooseyed Farvin
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
4,214
CT
I'm a Browns fan and I have the same exact Spygate conversation because I think it's total and absolute shit how people get it completely wrong. This is unprecedented mastery. We should all appreciate it.

Also, the Browns now have the best QB in the AFC North. That's the hill I'm dying on.
 

Moosey

Mooseyed Farvin
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
4,214
CT
I'll double posting because I'm drinking and on my phone...

My other favorite is talking about deflategate. Once the rant is over I reiterate my understanding of the ruling being overturned (hopefully I have this right). It was never proven the Patriots cheated, what was upheld was essentially Goodell can do whatever the fuck he wants because it was negotiated that way and that should scare fans of every franchise.

That usually then rebounds back to Spygate and the shit understanding therein. I like to think I'm doing impartial yeoman's work here.
 

Ferm Sheller

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2007
20,404
I'm a Browns fan and I have the same exact Spygate conversation because I think it's total and absolute shit how people get it completely wrong. This is unprecedented mastery. We should all appreciate it.

Also, the Browns now have the best QB in the AFC North. That's the hill I'm dying on.
I can easily see them winning their division next season. Would love to see it, actually.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
41,948
The guys on EEI (specifically Ordway and the afternoon drive guys) were interviewing a ton of Patriot "haters" from the media over the past couple weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. Their big test question was asking these morons what Spygate was really about, and what were they penalized for, and every single person, except one, said either "taping practice" or "taping a walkthrough." The only one that actually got it right was Rob Parker, but he's an idiot on so many other levels that it doesn't really change anything.

The amazing thing about it this is that almost everyone is regurgitating a report that was shortly after retracted. John Tomase will never, ever live this down. I almost feel bad for him at this point:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d808590d5/article/boston-herald-writer-expresses-regret-over-false-report
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,386
The guys on EEI (specifically Ordway and the afternoon drive guys) were interviewing a ton of Patriot "haters" from the media over the past couple weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. Their big test question was asking these morons what Spygate was really about, and what were they penalized for, and every single person, except one, said either "taping practice" or "taping a walkthrough." The only one that actually got it right was Rob Parker, but he's an idiot on so many other levels that it doesn't really change anything.

The amazing thing about it this is that almost everyone is regurgitating a report that was shortly after retracted. John Tomase will never, ever live this down. I almost feel bad for him at this point:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d808590d5/article/boston-herald-writer-expresses-regret-over-false-report
Feel bad for him? Are you kidding? The chump wrote a false story that has driven the national narrative about the Patriots ever since. Every time a national media person says something about it, he has a moral responsibility to tweet to that person and say, "I wrote the story to which you're referring. And it was WRONG. Absolutely, positively WRONG. The Patriots did NO such thing." I don't care if he gets sick of doing it. It's his penance for one of the great media wrongs in our lifetime.
 

staz

Intangible
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2004
20,671
The cradle of the game.
I'll double posting because I'm drinking and on my phone...

My other favorite is talking about deflategate. Once the rant is over I reiterate my understanding of the ruling being overturned (hopefully I have this right). It was never proven the Patriots cheated, what was upheld was essentially Goodell can do whatever the fuck he wants because it was negotiated that way and that should scare fans of every franchise.

That usually then rebounds back to Spygate and the shit understanding therein. I like to think I'm doing impartial yeoman's work here.
Long past wasting energy refighting the same battle, my succinct stock response has for a long time been: "Your team cheats dot com" Conversation over. https://yourteamcheats.com/cheaters/

Oh hey, look who's #4?!?
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
The guys on EEI (specifically Ordway and the afternoon drive guys) were interviewing a ton of Patriot "haters" from the media over the past couple weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. Their big test question was asking these morons what Spygate was really about, and what were they penalized for, and every single person, except one, said either "taping practice" or "taping a walkthrough." The only one that actually got it right was Rob Parker, but he's an idiot on so many other levels that it doesn't really change anything.

The amazing thing about it this is that almost everyone is regurgitating a report that was shortly after retracted. John Tomase will never, ever live this down. I almost feel bad for him at this point:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d808590d5/article/boston-herald-writer-expresses-regret-over-false-report
Tomase is lucky he has a job. F him.
 

The Big Red Kahuna

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 14, 2003
3,564
Interesting text message....

My brother lives in FL and has a lot of very wealthy / high profile clients for his business. One happens to be a huge Pats fan. Reportedly this guy was told by a FBI agent buddy that Kraft is under some huge investigation and is going to be raided sooner than later. IMO there's no way an agent would risk his career leaking that, even IF it were true... but figured I'd share on the snowball's chance in hell it's true. :D
Hope Jonathan is ready. Thanks Robert. Enjoy jail. Next man up.
 

NortheasternPJ

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 16, 2004
19,272
Tomase is lucky he has a job. F him.
Agreed. It's not like he had a bad source, he made a bad "leap of logic" according to him and was afraid to get scooped before he verified it. I get this is more common in the world of Twitter, but in 2008 it was gospel and a huge error. So in the end, screw him and the "journalists" today who can't figure out he basically made up the story based upon whispers he was hearing and wanted to be The Story, so he didn't verify it.
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
12,751
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
Agreed. It's not like he had a bad source, he made a bad "leap of logic" according to him and was afraid to get scooped before he verified it. I get this is more common in the world of Twitter, but in 2008 it was gospel and a huge error. So in the end, screw him and the "journalists" today who can't figure out he basically made up the story based upon whispers he was hearing and wanted to be The Story, so he didn't verify it.
I'll forever be convinced that bullshit story had in-game impact, too.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
51,333
I'm sure Tomase regrets the story. That said, I check in on his Twitter like once a year just to make sure people are still roasting him for it on completely unrelated posts. They are, and it makes me smile every time. That shit should be on his tombstone.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
21,770
Pittsburgh, PA
I can easily see them [the Browns] winning their division next season. Would love to see it, actually.
See them? Shit, they might actually be favored if FA and draft go well, and if Kitchens is legit in the slightest. That's a team that wins 10 games this year if they don't have a guy with the IQ of a turnip coaching the team for the first half of the season.
 
Last edited:

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,546
A great deal of the Patriots success is due to roster construction. For the Patriots, they are often happy to sign a good player who has both position flexibility and a willingness to sacrifice personal stats (do your job) for the greater good. That is what they value.

It's the same thing that everyone misses when they talk about the team salary and start calling the Patriots cheap because they let a free agent of theirs sign else where. While the Patriots don't often spend as much as other teams for their star players, they are happy to spend more than other teams on the middle-class of their roster.
.
I forget who pointed it out, but as an example of the Patriots roster building philosophy the Rams had 4 guys on their roster this year with cap hits between 2-5M, the Patriots had 19. They build their teams with fewer studs at the top, but many fewer scrubs at the bottom as well.
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
24,661
where I was last at
It's from an Italian (I think) word for eggplant. It came up during The Sopranos.
Muligagne is the word, and "mooley" is the short-hand street version. I first heard it in Carroll Garden Brooklyn in the early 80s.

For those not easily offended there's a great scene in "True Romance" (written by Tarantino) between Christopher Walken and Dennis Hopper discussing the origins. The scene is avaialbe on youtube.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,386
It's from an Italian (I think) word for eggplant. It came up during The Sopranos.
I've never heard of "eggplant" as a racial slur either, and when I looked it up in the Urban Dictionary...that's, uh, not what THEY have for it.
 

GeorgeCostanza

tiger king
SoSH Member
May 16, 2009
7,286
Found in central mass
Wow. I could definitely put that in the "things I learned recently" thread. I've honestly never heard that.
Never heard that one before. Was intending to describe him as having the intellectual firepower of a vegetable. I'll go choose another veggie.
I've never heard of "eggplant" as a racial slur either, and when I looked it up in the Urban Dictionary...that's, uh, not what THEY have for it.
Haven’t you bunch of uncouth barbarians ever seen The Jerk???
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,297
AZ
Must be white boy day!
I have no idea what that means.

Which makes me think of a question. When you don't get a joke on Sosh, what's the proper response? Do you try to figure out something that makes it sound like you do like "Ha!" or do you admit it? I never know.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
I have no idea what that means.

Which makes me think of a question. When you don't get a joke on Sosh, what's the proper response? Do you try to figure out something that makes it sound like you do like "Ha!" or do you admit it? I never know.

Admit it. None of us are cool, no matter how many movies we can quote.
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
10,154
Westwood MA
You people and your True Romance. Eddie Murphy brought light to the term in “Raw” way before that. Also NSFW:

When the whole eggplant/that's a racial slur/really, I had no idea/it was on the Sopranos/here's what the urban dictionary said about it/really, wow, I also had no idea/It's Italian...…...the first thing I thought of was that Eddie Murphy bit in "Raw", thanks for pointing it out.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
Right. I’m dumb.

When the whole eggplant/that's a racial slur/really, I had no idea/it was on the Sopranos/here's what the urban dictionary said about it/really, wow, I also had no idea/It's Italian...…...the first thing I thought of was that Eddie Murphy bit in "Raw", thanks for pointing it out.
What’s kinda funny and awkward is the eggplant emoji is the dick emoji for sexting, but it also has those kinda racial overtones and whatnot.