The New Red Sox GM Discussion

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geoduck no quahog

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Who do you want considered and why...and who do you favor?
 
(feel free to replace who with whom at any juncture)
 

Toe Nash

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Dipoto seems the natural choice. And hopefully DD listens to him.
 
Otherwise, a promotion from within, preferably on the minor league development side of things.
 
My biggest worry is that they get away from building a great farm system. No matter your payroll, that's the key to winning so long as the CBA undervalues young players.
 

shepard50

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David Forst has been the AGM in Oakland for 12 years and with the organization for 16. There have been multiple mentions of him as the "GM in waiting" after Beane, but maybe he's tired of waiting?
 

nvalvo

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A partnership between a new stats-oriented guy who will be interested in e.g. quantifying catcher framing, and Dombrowski's more old-school perspective seems like it could be fertile. 
 
What made Cherington so fascinating was the way all of his moved seemed theorized: short term deals to old mid-level FAs like Napoli, Vic, and Dempster! big commitments to younger FAs like Porcello and Sandoval! Collect all the bats like Hanley and Sandoval! But maybe putting so many eggs in one intellectual basket is what has put the team on the boom or bust cycle we've seen. When he hits on something, the team improves by 30 wins in one off-season. When he doesn't...
 
We should target a creative thinker like Cherington, but this time with the more conservative Dombrowski in place to temper some of the enthusiasm.
 
DiPoto sounds great to me, and he's already in house. Friedman probably isn't available. I'm not wild about Anthopolous, but he fits the profile. 
 

shepard50

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Peter Woodfork is working for MLB as an SVP, he seems to have responsibility for umpires. He worked for DiPoto and Byrnes after he left the Sox. He's a Harvard guy and obviously understands; analytics, the new rules, deep knowledge in salaries and arbitration, as well as player development and the Red Sox philosophy. I wonder if he would be seen as too "old school Red Sox"?
 

ehaz

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David Stearns (Jeff Lunhow's #2).  30 years old, Harvard grad, oversees analytics, scouting, player evaluations, etc.  Damon Openheimer?  Kim Ng gets interviewed for just about every open GM position since 2007.
 

Drek717

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My guess is Dipoto as GM, Wren as SVP of Player Personnel (replacing Baird).  I would then be concerned that Wren's long time relationship with Dombrowski would result in Dipoto consistently being overruled on disagreements, but a reversal of that relationship would be that to the Nth degree and Wren's strengths have always been in player assessment and drafting talent, not so much in the wheeling and dealing or signing of FAs.
 

SoxVindaloo

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Any chance Hazen gets a serious look at the GM job? Has been coming on as a GM in waiting league wide, and as a 1st timer any potential power struggle with Dombrowski might take a couple of years to percolate to a boil (see Theo, Gorilla suit, 2005). The idea of working for such a powerful Head of Baseball Operations would seem to be more appealing to a younger and less experienced candidate.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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SoxVindaloo said:
Any chance Hazen gets a serious look at the GM job? Has been coming on as a GM in waiting league wide, and as a 1st timer any potential power struggle with Dombrowski might take a couple of years to percolate to a boil (see Theo, Gorilla suit, 2005). The idea of working for such a powerful Head of Baseball Operations would seem to be more appealing to a younger and less experienced candidate.
I doubt very much that Hazen is going to get a serious look. This looks like a sea change for FO personnel, and Dombrowski probably wouldn't have taken the job without autonomy to pick his own team.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Buzzkill Pauley said:
I doubt very much that Hazen is going to get a serious look. This looks like a sea change for FO personnel, and Dombrowski probably wouldn't have taken the job without autonomy to pick his own team.
 
Yet by all accounts, they (Dombrowski included) wanted Cherington to stay on as GM.  And he is staying on through the transition, which to me reads as he remains in the seat until they fill it.  I don't think that rules out an internal option like Hazen, especially since he's already intimately familiar with the organization, particularly in its strongest area...amateur scouting and player development.
 
If it was a true sea change, I'd imagine there'd be no "transition" and Cherington's personal effects would be in a box in the parking lot by the end of the day.  That's not the case at all.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

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Would Paul DePodesta be a consideration? I know he was fired after a couple years in LA, but that was a lot of bad luck. He's currently the VP of player development and scouting for the Mets and their farm system is in pretty good shape. GM would definitely be a step up, so no worries about a lateral move. Thoughts?
 
EDIT: Spelling.
 

Yossarian

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Here's an admittedly crazy idea -- John Farrell.
 
He's obviously well-respected by ownership, he has a strong background in player development--so much so that a lot of people, IIRC, saw it as something of a career shift when he moved from the GM track to the managerial track--and maybe from a health perspective would be better off in an office rather than hitting fungoes and traveling all over the country (not to say that being a GM is some laid-back position).
 
I know it's highly improbable if not ludicrous.  I just keep going back to the comments from a few years ago by some front office types (Henry?  Cherington?) that they thought Farrell could do pretty much anything in the game of baseball, and do it well.  
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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Yossarian said:
Here's an admittedly crazy idea -- John Farrell.
 
 
No thanks on John Farrell. I want someone who is immune to Craig Breslow's dark magic.

If DDski is going to be in total charge then it seems unlikely any of the A list GM candidates (especially established guys like Dipodesta) would want to come to Boston to play second banana.
 

GaryPeters71

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For what it's worth, here's what Jim Bowden at ESPN thinks about DD's potential GM hire (paid subscription):
 
"In all practicality, Dombrowski's GM will be either someone he is already close to or an assistant GM he could mold. Perhaps it'll be someone like former Braves GM Frank Wren, who has worked with Dombrowski previously (with the Florida Marlins) and would understand/agree to the lack of power. Or perhaps he'll go with a young up-and-coming executive such as current Red Sox assistant GM Mike Hazen, whom Dombrowski could train to take over three to five years down the road."
 

Mighty Joe Young

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The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa said:
No thanks on John Farrell. I want someone who is immune to Craig Breslow's dark magic.
If DDski is going to be in total charge then it seems unlikely any of the A list GM candidates (especially established guys like Dipodesta) would want to come to Boston to play second banana.
I think this is an excellent point. For example what is Jed Hoyer's job description?

President of Baseball Ops. is a relatively new idea and I don't think there's been much public examination of how the new hierarchy breaks down. Hoyer is the GM in Chicago but I don't think any one believes he a real GM in the older sense of the word.

As we have no idea of the next Boston GM's responsibilities it's difficult to evaluate any potential candidates.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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I'll continue to hold out hope for Michael Girsch.

5 years as an Asst GM under Mozeliak, with a math degree and MBA.

I think it's time for him to be promoted.
 

soxhop411

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“@Ken_Rosenthal: Rival executive says he will be “shocked” if Dombrowski names anyone other than Wren as #RedSox general manager.”
 

jscola85

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Wren would definitely signal a massive shift in philosophy towards the old-school scouting approach.
 

SouthernBoSox

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That's not surprising.  Also, if I'm being honest, I don't really have one but of worry into who the GM is.  
 
The next General Manager of the Red Sox is going to be an assistant.  They will have no decision making power.  Zero.  
 
This is Dombrowski's team now
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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SouthernBoSox said:
That's not surprising.  Also, if I'm being honest, I don't really have one but of worry into who the GM is.  
 
The next General Manager of the Red Sox is going to be an assistant.  They will have no decision making power.  Zero.  
 
This is Dombrowski's team now
 
To the bolded, Allard Baird has/had no decision making power in his role under Ben Cherington, but it is believed he had a lot of influence with regard to major league player scouting and acquisition (specifically Carl Crawford but others as well).  It's not out of the realm of possibility that Wren or whomever is the GM will have input and influence even if they ultimately have no decision making power.  Why else would Dombrowski hire them in the first place if he didn't trust their judgment enough to go with it once in a while?
 

SouthernBoSox

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
To the bolded, Allard Baird has/had no decision making power in his role under Ben Cherington, but it is believed he had a lot of influence with regard to major league player scouting and acquisition (specifically Carl Crawford but others as well).  It's not out of the realm of possibility that Wren or whomever is the GM will have input and influence even if they ultimately have no decision making power.  Why else would Dombrowski hire them in the first place if he didn't trust their judgment enough to go with it once in a while?
I'm not saying whoever the GM is won't have any say.  They'll have as much say as Jed Hoyer has.  Dombrowski even said in regards to the GM's role "Well, they'll be working beside me everyday." 
 
My point being, I'm going to put very little thought into the impact of the next Red Sox general manager.  
 

soxhop411

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Via mlbtr

After speaking with multiple industry sources, Sean McAdam of CSN New England writes that four candidates for the Red Sox’ GM opening include former Braves GM Frank Wren, former Rockies GM Dan O’Dowd, former Angels GM/current Red Sox advisor Jerry Dipoto and Yankees assistant GM Billy Eppler. Wren has been oft-mentioned in the past few days, and O’Dowd has also popped up more recently in reports. Regarding Eppler, McAdam writes that he’s blocked in New York by Brian Cashman, and many expect him to land a GM job elsewhere this winter.
 

Harry Hooper

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soxhop411 said:
Via mlbtr

After speaking with multiple industry sources, Sean McAdam of CSN New England writes that four candidates for the Red Sox’ GM opening include former Braves GM Frank Wren, former Rockies GM Dan O’Dowd, former Angels GM/current Red Sox advisor Jerry Dipoto and Yankees assistant GM Billy Eppler. Wren has been oft-mentioned in the past few days, and O’Dowd has also popped up more recently in reports. Regarding Eppler, McAdam writes that he’s blocked in New York by Brian Cashman, and many expect him to land a GM job elsewhere this winter.
 
Well, at least the Sox could force the Yanks to shell out more $ as both Cashman and Eppler get promoted.
 

TheReal15

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Dan O'Dowd and Wren are just terrible. How are they under consideration? Are they really good at non-critical baseball ops duties while Dombrowski steers the ship? 
 

soxhop411

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When was the last time a NYY OR BOS front office member went to the opposing team?
 

E5 Yaz

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The Red Sox tried to bring Gene Michael aboard at one point
 

Manramsclan

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Regarding Wren, there was a lot of talk after he was fired from the Braves job regarding his inability to lead and in particular his abrasive style. Given the crucible that is MLB and in particular the Boston Red Sox, this is a toxic mix IMO. 
 
I really like the thought of DiPoto in the GM chair. I think his biggest issue with the Angels was that his voice was being negated by ownership in a realm over which he was supposed to be responsible. In this case, answering to DD he would be tasked and managed but his input would actually be considered. The situation with Scioscia and Moreno was exactly the opposite: the work that he was supposed to be doing, and had already done, was just being tossed aside. 
 
He would be a perfect fit. A former player, competitive, analytically inclined. He would be able to straddle the two sides of scouting and analytics in a meaningful way that would be easy to communicate to DD.
 
The main issue is whether he is ok taking a job without final say.
 

alwyn96

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I would love it to be Dipoto, because it would indicate that Dombrowski places some importance on having a staty-type voice involved in the decision making process. And Dipoto's had a strong track record of success.
 
I think it'll actually be some randomish guy Dombrowski's worked with before somewhere. Which is ok. I think it's kind of good that one guy will actually be fully responsible for various moves. Maybe there were too many cooks in the kitchen before. We won't have to debate whether Cherington or Lucchino is responsible for some move - like people have said, it's all Dombrowski's show now. The buck stops with him.
 

joe dokes

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What made Cherington so fascinating was the way all of his moved seemed theorized: short term deals to old mid-level FAs like Napoli, Vic, and Dempster! big commitments to younger FAs like Porcello and Sandoval! Collect all the bats like Hanley and Sandoval! But maybe putting so many eggs in one intellectual basket is what has put the team on the boom or bust cycle we've seen. When he hits on something, the team improves by 30 wins in one off-season. When he doesn't...
 
 
I didn't want this to get lost in the ether. I think this is about the best and most concise assessment of Cherington's M.O. I've seen.  And it's pejorative-free! 
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I think these are the three most realistic options in regards to the next GM. 
 
1) Frank Wren. The connection here is obvious. DD has worked with him twice. Wren himself has had some success as a GM, I was going to post a few of his draft choices from his time in Atlanta but its already in another thread. He has a solid track record in that regard. The knock on him is that he is clearly more old school. However, how many people on this board would mind players such as Freeman or Teheran? Heyward or Minor when healthy of course. Not the best choice but not an awful one either. He did trade nothing a few years back for Javier Vazquez who gave the Braves a dynamite season. He also signed Rafael Soriano who gave them one year of great production. Some highlights since of course we have heard the low points. Would he be my pick? No. DD wants a guy who he can mold to take over in a few years. If that is really true then Wren is too old. However, he probably will have a role in the organization such as the one Bill Lajoie had for Theo. 
 
2) Jerry Dipoto  What is left to be said? The guy is very analytic savvy. He has worked in Boston under Theo before and is only on the market because of the manager in Anaheim being allowed full control. This isn't necessarily Dave Dombrowski, its the on field manager. I could absolutely see this combination working. Especially if what DD alluded to in the press conference was true about not having a large department on analytics for various reasons, IE the owner. I've tried finding knocks on him. I mean I guess you could say Pujols and Hamilton happened on his watch, but was that really him? Even still, Pujols is actually earning that monster contract right now. Same type of situation as DD had in Detroit. Thinking about it the only actual negative here is the comfort of not being able to pull the strings and wanting more autonomy than what he would probably get under Dombroski. He would be my pick but the more I think about it, I think he goes elsewhere. 
 
Which leaves me to the person who I think will get the job. 
 
3) Eddie Romero - Director of International Scouting for the Red Sox. He has done an outstanding job. Moncada, Boegarts, Espinosa, Devers Castillo etc... he has had a hand in all of these as a director or otherwise. The main knock of course is lack of experience scouting MLB talent relative to the people he would be competing against. But that is actually something that helps him in this regard since the GM will essentially be a glorified Asst. GM. Dave Dombroski is head of the diversity committee and I believe sees the importance of a strong Latin American presence inside the organization to keep that pipeline going. Plus this stops Ben or Theo from plucking him to go to Chicago, Milwaukee or wherever. Dave Dombrowski wants someone who he can train, that's your guy.  You could also throw in Mike Hazen as well as an alternative for #3. But reading the tea leaves about wanting to keep as many people as possible. I think he takes someone internally and then brings in guys like Wren and O'Dowd to assist. 
 

jasail

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While this may be a sea change in the front office, I don't see the team moving too far from an analytical approach irrespective of the hiring of Dombrowski. John Henry is still the owner, he's a stats driven guy and was an early advocate of this approach to team building, and the Sox have been very successful using this approach (despite the last two years). So, even though the new President of Ops is a "baseball guy", I can't see him authorizing his new President to throw the baby out with the bathwater and hire a guy like Wren (or Leyland to manage). So, I think Wren's name as top candidate is speculative based entirely on his relationship with Dombrowski and without consideration that the Sox are likely not turning their organization philosophy on its head. IMO, it's far more likely that they bring in a young guy in the Theo circa 2003 mold that understands the numbers aspects but is also someone that Dombrowski can mold. This not only sets them up with a nice balance in the short term, but also lets them groom a future head of the front office. Perhaps that guy is Dipoto, but I think it's more likely someone like Eddie Romero or Mike Hazen who understands the Sox organization and has excelled in their role with the team. 
 

JimD

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Dombrowski is going to have complete autonomy to choose his team - why would he agree to take another job where he'd have to fly his choices past the owner?
 

jasail

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I personally believe there is no chance that he has complete autonomy. That goes against everything we know about this ownership group. I'm sure they will give Dombrowski a high level of deference in decision making, but I can't see Henry and Werner not being involved in selecting high level positions such as GM (and maybe manager). Meaning they may not be making these decision, but they may be at the interview table, advising him on what they want to see in candidates or giving him the final ok. As for why he would take the job without complete autonomy? I'm sure the pay check doesn't hurt.
 

jscola85

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jasail said:
While this may be a sea change in the front office, I don't see the team moving too far from an analytical approach irrespective of the hiring of Dombrowski. John Henry is still the owner, he's a stats driven guy and was an early advocate of this approach to team building, and the Sox have been very successful using this approach (despite the last two years). So, even though the new President of Ops is a "baseball guy", I can't see him authorizing his new President to throw the baby out with the bathwater and hire a guy like Wren (or Leyland to manage). So, I think Wren's name as top candidate is speculative based entirely on his relationship with Dombrowski and without consideration that the Sox are likely not turning their organization philosophy on its head. IMO, it's far more likely that they bring in a young guy in the Theo circa 2003 mold that understands the numbers aspects but is also someone that Dombrowski can mold. This not only sets them up with a nice balance in the short term, but also lets them groom a future head of the front office. Perhaps that guy is Dipoto, but I think it's more likely someone like Eddie Romero or Mike Hazen who understands the Sox organization and has excelled in their role with the team. 
 
I think this is an interesting take, especially since Dombrowski is not a young guy anymore.  At 59, the longest he'd be expected to stick around is 10-11 years like Lucchino, and more probably a shorter tenure than that.  I would imagine they'd try to find someone they can groom to be the next head honcho of baseball ops.  Wren is basically the same age as DD, and O'Dowd only a bit younger.
 
If you can reel in a younger guy like Dipoto who is willing to be the good lieutenant for DD, provide a bit of a contrasting view, and potentially be ready to take over for DD after he retires/departs, that would seem to be the ideal outcome.
 

TheReal15

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I can't imagine that we'd expect a young GM to stick around 10 years without more autonomy as the major voice in baseball ops. With a lot of organizations they have a system like we've had. A team president who has a say and sometimes meddles and a GM who has the loudest baseball operations voice, right? 

If Dombrowski is the main guy, I can't see his GM hire riding it out for 10 years until he retires. Sure, the Sox GM chair is a plum job, but Dombrowski was obviously hired to be the final say in the room. Is another GM going to be okay being what seems like essentially a jumped up assistant? 
 
If say, Jed Hoyer was given a chance to be a GM someplace else where he'd be the main voice in the room, wouldn't he take it? 
 

LahoudOrBillyC

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The Red Sox are using title inflation here. Dombrowski is what we used to call the GM, with full authority over baseball ops. He's looking for a right hand man. The titles are confusing people.
 

twoBshorty

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TheReal15 said:
I can't imagine that we'd expect a young GM to stick around 10 years without more autonomy as the major voice in baseball ops. With a lot of organizations they have a system like we've had. A team president who has a say and sometimes meddles and a GM who has the loudest baseball operations voice, right? 

If Dombrowski is the main guy, I can't see his GM hire riding it out for 10 years until he retires. Sure, the Sox GM chair is a plum job, but Dombrowski was obviously hired to be the final say in the room. Is another GM going to be okay being what seems like essentially a jumped up assistant? 
 
If say, Jed Hoyer was given a chance to be a GM someplace else where he'd be the main voice in the room, wouldn't he take it? 
He went into his current situation voluntarily with 2 years left on his San Diego deal, so quite possibly not.
 

TheReal15

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twoBshorty said:
He went into his current situation voluntarily with 2 years left on his San Diego deal, so quite possibly not.
 
Maybe you're right, but I assume Jeb and Theo's friendship and trust make for an atypical example. Perhaps they weren't a good one to use. 

I just don't think an ambitious GM would stay for very long as a top assistant. I'm not confused by the title change. Dombrowski is the man in charge making decisions for baseball ops, but his GM is going to have the title of Red Sox GM and I assume be heavily involved in player development and player acquisition. I assume that's why Frank Wren and Dan O'Dowd seem like such worrisome choices for the role... I also think it's why guys like Jerry DiPoto would seem like short term options. He's going to be sought after as the #1 in a team's baseball ops division right? 
 
Is this model sustainable? If it's not... does it matter since Theo's top lieutenants were routinely picked off during our recent run of WS victories and playoff appearances? 
 

nvalvo

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LahoudOrBillyC said:
The Red Sox are using title inflation here. Dombrowski is what we used to call the GM, with full authority over baseball ops. He's looking for a right hand man. The titles are confusing people.
 
Right. This whole shakeup in FO organization all got started so that the Cubs could nominally "promote" Theo and thus not need to offer substantial compensation to Boston.
 
It's not like Theo was really eager to be in charge of selling ads on the new Jumbotron.
 

Drek717

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JimD said:
Dombrowski is going to have complete autonomy to choose his team - why would he agree to take another job where he'd have to fly his choices past the owner?
I don't imagine there are any jobs where major choices aren't ran past the owner.  Most rich guys don't like being committed to giving out nine figure deals without being consulted first.
 
That said, I'm sure he'll have more rope than Cherington ever did, after all, Henry has an extensive past with Dombrowski and Dombrowski has a much stronger resume.
 
The more I think about it the more I'm betting that Dombrowski will pick a first time GM, using the title "GM" to land better talent, and likely position one of his core people like Frank Wren in place of Allard Baird as the senior VP of player personnel type position.  The GM title would mean less to Wren, he's held it before and regardless of the title he'll still report, ultimately, to Dombrowski.
 

ehaz

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Drek717 said:
The more I think about it the more I'm betting that Dombrowski will pick a first time GM, using the title "GM" to land better talent, and likely position one of his core people like Frank Wren in place of Allard Baird as the senior VP of player personnel type position.  The GM title would mean less to Wren, he's held it before and regardless of the title he'll still report, ultimately, to Dombrowski.
 
Exactly, look at the past structure for example.  Hazen and O'Halloran are the Assistant GMs. Baird is the Director of Player Personnel.  But I don't think anyone would try to make the argument that Hazen/O'Halloran are senior to or carry more weight than Baird did, in the end, they're all listed as Senior Vice Presidents and all three reported to Cherington.  The only difference was in their roles: Hazen - Amateur/Player Dev., O'Halloran - Day to day ops, arbitration, etc (business side), Baird - pro-scouting.
 

JimD

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I really hope Mike Hazen gets a shot - he seems deserving and his knowledge of the players in the system will be valuable, plus it might also convince some of the other talent in the organization to stick around and not follow Ben to his next job.
 

geoduck no quahog

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Sabremetrics.
 
My understanding is that identifying market advantages has run its course, because every team now has access to all the data it needs - and there's nothing new under the sun.
 
Are there any statistics that supersede the eye test now? I'm contending that statistical data is only useful insofar as a team can't have a scout at every game, every day, to see with their own eyes what the statistics only confirm (player X has trouble with sliders, player Y has been hitting the ball really well -  but right at people, player Z can't hit lefties anymore but his stance could be tinkered with, Hanley Ramirez can't play outfield...)
 
Is it really that important now to have a SabreGM? I assume the math-savvy assistants feed necessary information to these guys so that real life scouts can focus in on particular players.
 
2nd question: Are sabremetrics more useful for minor league and/or draftable players (despite the huge range in park, league and competition)? There's a million of these guys and no one can scout them all.
 
edit: Sosh.com kind of belies what I'm saying, particularly the articles that go deep into the data - just trying to broaden the discussion on how important a sabre-friendly GM is these days. 
 
I guess the Dipoto/Scoscia battle is a good example of how I could be very wrong.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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geoduck no quahog said:
Sabremetrics.
 
My understanding is that identifying market advantages has run its course, because every team now has access to all the data it needs - and there's nothing new under the sun.
 
Are there any statistics that supersede the eye test now? I'm contending that statistical data is only useful insofar as a team can't have a scout at every game, every day, to see with their own eyes what the statistics only confirm (player X has trouble with sliders, player Y has been hitting the ball really well -  but right at people, player Z can't hit lefties anymore but his stance could be tinkered with, Hanley Ramirez can't play outfield...)
 
Is it really that important now to have a SabreGM? I assume the math-savvy assistants feed necessary information to these guys so that real life scouts can focus in on particular players.
 
2nd question: Are sabremetrics more useful for minor league and/or draftable players (despite the huge range in park, league and competition)? There's a million of these guys and no one can scout them all.
 
edit: Sosh.com kind of belies what I'm saying, particularly the articles that go deep into the data - just trying to broaden the discussion on how important a sabre-friendly GM is these days. 
 
I guess the Dipoto/Scoscia battle is a good example of how I could be very wrong.
Well .. The worry is the non SABR guys would start relying on stupid statistics like Batting Average, RBI and Wins and raw counting stats in general. Even if you have a front office stuffed with SABR assistants it doesn't matter if the GM simply ignores their input. It really helps if everyone in the Organization Is on the same page.
 

shepard50

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Nov 18, 2006
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BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
Well .. The worry is the non SABR guys would start relying on stupid statistics like Batting Average, RBI and Wins and raw counting stats in general. Even if you have a front office stuffed with SABR assistants it doesn't matter if the GM simply ignores their input. It really helps if everyone in the Organization Is on the same page.
Is there an organization in baseball that still looks at those twentieth century stats as meaningful? Hasn't that ship sailed? (Real question- no snark)
 
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