The NFL and the National Anthem

soxhop411

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Dec 4, 2009
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Just what the NFL needs - another vague policy that gives the league office arbitrary authority to determine what is and is not a finable offense! I 100% trust Goodell and his lackeys to apply this rule fairly and consistently across players and teams.
The nfl will always find a way to step in dog shit even if there is no dog shit for miles.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Sep 9, 2008
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Stand for the veterans, stand for the anthem, cheer for the soldier. My theory is that those who demand this shit are actually less patriotic than those who take a fucking moment to realize that we're playing the check-a-box for patriotism game. Yup, I stood and got pissed at people who kneel. Check. I'm good. Wouldn't want to have to spend a minute actually thinking about what the flag represents and the people who have died for it fought for, because screw those who won't kneel. I'm good. I stood. I wrote an e-mail about the uppity players. Beer back on sale yet?
 

Average Reds

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OK. I believed the protest was mainly directed at police. I was wrong.

Secondly, many veterans feel it is disrespectful. And yes, like you pointed out,some don't. And as far as what I "care" about, whenever i was somewhere and people talked or whatever during the Anthem, I always, politely, asked them to remain silent. I am not at the stadium, so i can't do anything about many more "offensive" things occurring. And if the subject was kneeling, why would someone bring up a different subject? Talking, chewing gum, etc. Talk or ask about those specific issues, and I will say my feelings on that subject. Ask about kneeling, that's what someone will answer. And as far as the anthem honoring veterans:

https://www.history.com/news/why-the-star-spangled-banner-is-played-at-sporting-events

And I have no issue with "the people" who are protesting. You implying that is offensive. I made it VERY clear what my issue was, right or wrong. But of course I am a "racist" because I have a different opinion than you.
If you had taken even a short moment to learn about Kaepernick's protest, you would have discovered that he originally sat on the bench, along with Eric Reid, in silent protest. Then, after speaking with Nate Boyer, a former college/NFL player and a green beret, they were convinced that kneeling was "a sign of reverence" and a very patriotic way to get their point across without unintentionally seeming to disrespect any veterans who might be watching.

https://www.military.com/undertheradar/2016/09/kaepernick-meets-veteran-nate-boyer-kneels-anthem

Of course, you are free to believe what you want and feel however you want. That's the beauty of the United States. But I've always found it helpful to start with the facts and go from there.
 

sketz

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Stand for the veterans, stand for the anthem, cheer for the soldier. My theory is that those who demand this shit are actually less patriotic than those who take a fucking moment to realize that we're playing the check-a-box for patriotism game. Yup, I stood and got pissed at people who kneel. Check. I'm good. Wouldn't want to have to spend a minute actually thinking about what the flag represents and the people who have died for it fought for, because screw those who won't kneel. I'm good. I stood. I wrote an e-mail about the uppity players. Beer back on sale yet?
Absolutely. I’m curious if the kneel haters also hate the raised fist at the 68 olympics? Or would they be fine with the players doing this as long as they stood? Guessing not ...
 

Ed Hillel

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So now the story will be about who’s not on the field for the anthem. Sweet. Our country has gone banana.
 

Average Reds

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So now the story will be about who’s not on the field for the anthem. Sweet. Our country has gone banana.
It's not so much that the country has gone bananas as it is that NFL owners are a bunch of scared, reactionary white men who fear racist Trump supporters because, at heart, they are racist Trump supporters.
 

ifmanis5

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So now the story will be about who’s not on the field for the anthem. Sweet. Our country has gone banana.
Yup. There will be a list and Trump will read that list at rallies.

Link to ESPN story: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23582533/nfl-owners-approve-new-national-anthem-policy

The new policy subjects teams to a fine if a player or any other team personnel do not show appropriate respect for the anthem. That includes any attempt to sit or kneel, as dozens of players have done during the past two seasons. Those teams will also have the option to fine any team personnel, including players, for the infraction.
 

joe dokes

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Jul 18, 2005
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So now the story will be about who’s not on the field for the anthem. Sweet. Our country has gone banana.
If I was in charge of the commie insurgency, I'd tell my komrades to reply "I was taking a shit" to every inquiry. Hopefully, they will be on live TV, and no one will ask again.


Yup. There will be a list and Trump will read that list at rallies.

Link to ESPN story: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23582533/nfl-owners-approve-new-national-anthem-policy
even "attempted" kneeling?
 

Reverend

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The NFL hasn't done anything yet so I think a lot of this criticism is premature.
A penalty is dumb idea and while NFL leadership is lacking, I still doubt this gets much traction.

As much as SOSH seems to downplay the issue and insult those that are against kneeing, it is an issue for the NFL. Sponsors aren't happy, ratings are down and that is a primary reason people state as to why.

So while many of us may have no issue with the protests the NFL, as a business, needs to at least look at it.
Self-inflicted wound, of course.

I mean, this is the most absurdly literal version of "political football" I... I just... I mean--

I kinda hope they make it a penalty. Because then the players' politics would literally be in play.

"Show appropriate respect for the anthem."

What's it gonna do, tell its mom on them?
And somehow kneeling doesn't qualify?

The mind reels.
 

Reverend

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Can you imagine the boos for the players who stay back when they run on to the field?

This could be glorious.
 

bosoxsue

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If you had taken even a short moment to learn about Kaepernick's protest, you would have discovered that he originally sat on the bench, along with Eric Reid, in silent protest. Then, after speaking with Nate Boyer, a former college/NFL player and a green beret, they were convinced that kneeling was "a sign of reverence" and a very patriotic way to get their point across without unintentionally seeming to disrespect any veterans who might be watching.

https://www.military.com/undertheradar/2016/09/kaepernick-meets-veteran-nate-boyer-kneels-anthem

Of course, you are free to believe what you want and feel however you want. That's the beauty of the United States. But I've always found it helpful to start with the facts and go from there.
I have found your advice to be productive, as I've definitely evolved the more I have read about the issue and the motivation and recognized my privilege throughout the process. I initially was negative because my cousin the Vietnam veteran was bothered by it, but I think even he has come around. It helps that he loathes Trump. There's nothing wrong with opening and changing one's mind. I'd have thought that the NFL owners, with all of their money, would have used the resources at their disposal to come up with a clearer and more articulate way to address the players' concerns and have conveyed that in a better message.
 

Jim Ed Rice in HOF

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NFLPA response:
While the NFL is stupid it appears they were smart enough to concoct this rule so that the owners are subject to discipline not the players. I think the NFLPA gets involved if the team then turns around and redistributes any fine they get to the players who kneel on the field.
 

InstaFace

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Do they play the anthem at the start of golf tournaments?
They play it at the start of MLB, NBA and NHL games. If a Canadian team is participating, then both anthems, home team second. Not sure about MLS, I've never arrived early enough to be sure.
 

OurF'ingCity

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While the NFL is stupid it appears they were smart enough to concoct this rule so that the owners are subject to discipline not the players. I think the NFLPA gets involved if the team then turns around and redistributes any fine they get to the players who kneel on the field.
I get that they might have had to do it that way for CBA reasons, but this is the most reprehensible part of the whole thing for me because it provides a ready-made excuse for teams to blackball the Colin Kaepernicks of the world. Teams will now claim that they aren't signing players not because of their views, but because they could be financially exposed via fine if those players continue to protest.

Fining the players would be reprehensible for other reasons but at least then it is the player's choice - if he thinks it's worth the monetary hit he can do it. The way it is set up now just makes it easier for teams to cut or avoid signing anyone who continues to protest.
 

joe dokes

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They play it at the start of MLB, NBA and NHL games. If a Canadian team is participating, then both anthems, home team second. Not sure about MLS, I've never arrived early enough to be sure.
So then the golfers are the real traitors?
 

Dotrat

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Only the Democratic Party does messaging worse than the NFL; only the Republican Party has lousier policies.
 

Valek123

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If I were the NFLPA I'd recommend all teams stay in the lockers then come out after until this is rescinded. It would not continue the NFLs attempts to fracture the union into segments.

Agreed... Hate the manufactured conflicts and so much of the NFL short of most of the product on the field.
 

trs

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I wonder what the exact wording is for WHEN the anthem has to be played and HOW MANY TIMES! I can see the anthem being put to good use causing some helpful false-start violations when the patriotic left guard has to stand and snap to attention the second those G, E, and C notes echo o'er the ramparts.

I know it seems impossible to walk back on playing the anthem before sporting events, but for all the people claiming that players shouldn't be voicing political opinions on "company time" or "at a game" -- couldn't these seem sentiments be directed at the NFL for playing the anthem "on company time" and "at a game?" Just get some cool NFL jingle like the Champions League one and be done with it. I'd even take that "Are you ready for some football???" crap from years back.
 

Soxy

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It's quite telling that the owners are myopic enough to think that this is a good idea.

There is an increasing sense of disgust and shame that comes from actively supporting these assholes by consuming their product, and it is becoming impossible to ignore. Fuck the NFL and fuck their owners. You reap what you sow and they can't go down in flames soon enough.
 

soxhop411

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Dec 4, 2009
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NFL’s new policy says that every player on the field “shall stand and show respect for the flag and the Anthem.” But what constitutes showing respect? That is unclear.

Several NFL players have chosen to stand for the anthem but raise a fist. Does that constitute respect?


Not according to Steelers owner Art Rooney, who told Dave Birkett of the Detroit Free Press that he thinks raising a fist would constitute disrespect of the anthem. Rooney also said linking arms during the anthem would constitute disrespect, which is surprising given that several NFL owners chose to link arms during the anthem last season.

“I think any form of protest is a form of protest. We didn’t define exactly what you have to be doing to be out there, but I think everybody understands what it means to be respectful during the anthem,” Rooney told Birkett when approached at the league meeting.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/23/art-rooney-thinks-standing-with-a-raised-fist-constitutes-disrespect-of-the-anthem/

Absolutely. I’m curious if the kneel haters also hate the raised fist at the 68 olympics? Or would they be fine with the players doing this as long as they stood? Guessing not ...
Fists. Every time.
 

CantKeepmedown

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Jul 15, 2005
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According to Art Rooney, raising a fist or linking arms is also a sign of disrespect. WTF is going on around here?


"Art Rooney of the Steelers said while it was not defined, he believes that raising a fist and linking arms during the playing of the anthem also would constitute disrespect of the anthem."

I enjoyed the first comment, "I think this answers your question @nuftjedi. The NFL can't figure out what a catch is nor what "disrespect to the anthem" is.

edit.......beaten by soxhop
 

axx

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Jul 16, 2005
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Kaep was different but the players totally were doing the kneeling because they knew the owners hated it. I guess this is the owners salvo back.

The next CBA is going to be so, so ugly.
 

bakahump

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Is there a minimum fine? And does the Team set the amount?

If I was a team (or NFL) I would set it at like $20 and say "Yea we are trying to stop them but evidently this is important and they choose to pay the fine."
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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While the NFL is stupid it appears they were smart enough to concoct this rule so that the owners are subject to discipline not the players. I think the NFLPA gets involved if the team then turns around and redistributes any fine they get to the players who kneel on the field.
Isn't this worse for the teams? If they can't turn around and distribute fines to the players for kneeling, which I'm guessing they can't or teams would already have done it plus it's against the CBA, then players can kneel to protest plus subject their own owners, many of whom they believe to be racist and part of the problem, to fines.

I expect the Texans will be dropping trou and a deuce to rack up the fines for Bob McNair.
 

strek1

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The NFL just created a much bigger thing here than if they had left it alone to run it's course. And even if it didn't stop, who is it hurting?
 

JakeRae

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I'm out. I cannot support a business that has a formal policy declaring that black people should be silent because their speaking makes white people uncomfortable.