The OC Search

DJnVa

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Additionally, BoB's contract at Alabama has another month left. Now, that wouldn't be a HUGE impediment to anything, but it could be simply BB and BoB letting that play out to not mess with Saban's recruiting, which is what BoB is out doing now.
 

bakahump

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This team has made its bones not overreacting to "what everyone thinks". They have also historically put "Players in position to succeed" by asking "What can they do well" not "what cant they do". Some of that is trial and error.

Sure Patricia failed at OC. and this TE coach may not be a good fit in that position. Or he may be a great coach who had limited or shitty players. Not overreacting and listening to the Mob and figuring what they CAN do is exactly what they have done for years in almost every aspect. Sooo why are we surprised?
 

RedOctober3829

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Additionally, BoB's contract at Alabama has another month left. Now, that wouldn't be a HUGE impediment to anything, but it could be simply BB and BoB letting that play out to not mess with Saban's recruiting, which is what BoB is out doing now.
That's a dangerous game to play. Ideally, you want someone in as the OC as soon as you can so they can start preparing for free agency and the draft. If he wants to return to the NFL, it may also not be with New England. His buddy Monti Ossenfort just took over in Arizona and he may get a shot to interview for the HC job there and his other buddy Mike Vrabel has an OC opening in Tennessee. If Brady wants to come back to Tampa, it may be with BOB as OC there. LAC has the appeal of working with Justin Herbert. Waiting around for his contract to end is not how you want to play this. If O'Brien wants to do this, Bill will have to work it out with Saban to let him out as soon as he can. Maybe that is after the late signing day(2/1)? Who knows.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I really don’t think Saban would hold O’Brien hostage through February in terms of interviewing or agreeing to take a job, especially if it gets out that he’s gonna take an NFL job. That would be kind of shitty, and what good is BOB on the recruiting trail if everyone knows he’s gone in mere weeks?
 

DJnVa

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That's a dangerous game to play. Ideally, you want someone in as the OC as soon as you can so they can start preparing for free agency and the draft. If he wants to return to the NFL, it may also not be with New England. His buddy Monti Ossenfort just took over in Arizona and he may get a shot to interview for the HC job there and his other buddy Mike Vrabel has an OC opening in Tennessee. If Brady wants to come back to Tampa, it may be with BOB as OC there. LAC has the appeal of working with Justin Herbert. Waiting around for his contract to end is not how you want to play this. If O'Brien wants to do this, Bill will have to work it out with Saban to let him out as soon as he can. Maybe that is after the late signing day(2/1)? Who knows.
I really don’t think Saban would hold O’Brien hostage through February in terms of interviewing or agreeing to take a job, especially if it gets out that he’s gonna take an NFL job. That would be kind of shitty, and what good is BOB on the recruiting trail if everyone knows he’s gone in mere weeks?
Well, I don't know that Saban's holding him hostage either, just that his contract runs another month and the Patriots have to do these other interviews anyway, so I don't see the big deal in getting to BoB last, especially since he's the known commodity. He has all these NFL options and none of them have had him in either.
 

Dogman

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I really don’t think Saban would hold O’Brien hostage through February in terms of interviewing or agreeing to take a job, especially if it gets out that he’s gonna take an NFL job. That would be kind of shitty, and what good is BOB on the recruiting trail if everyone knows he’s gone in mere weeks?

What's more, any recruiting pitch has got to be playing for Saban and Alabama first and foremost. I wouldn't think the OC/DC matters to most athletes looking to play a big time D1 programs.
 

RedOctober3829

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I'm kind of hoping they were surprised by another candidate so there's at least some competition.
I think Shawn Jefferson is an intriguing name. He's a FOB(Friend of Bill) from his playing days but also has established himself with multiple teams. Calvin Johnson thinks the world of him. He's been an assistant HC in multiple stops as well so he's had elevated roles beyond a position coach.
 

Cellar-Door

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One interesting thing is they appear to be interviewing two different TYPES of OCs.

I think it's BOB, but they also brought in some Shanahan style offense guys, Bill flirted some with that last year,so could be he's considering that option still.
 

GlucoDoc

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Dec 19, 2005
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By interviewing multiple people with varied backgrounds, Bill can hear their thoughts as well. Even if it ends up being BoB (as most of us expect), nevertheless, if Bill is wise as we think he is, he can get some insight into the thought process of some of these others. That can help craft his and the new OC's approach. Even for old goats like BB (and I am about the same age!), you never should stop learning from listening to ideas of others. Never know when you'll pick up ideas that can be helpful. And this process is a time to do that.
 

Jimbodandy

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By interviewing multiple people with varied backgrounds, Bill can hear their thoughts as well. Even if it ends up being BoB (as most of us expect), nevertheless, if Bill is wise as we think he is, he can get some insight into the thought process of some of these others. That can help craft his and the new OC's approach. Even for old goats like BB (and I am about the same age!), you never should stop learning from listening to ideas of others. Never know when you'll pick up ideas that can be helpful. And this process is a time to do that.
There's some truth to this for sure. I don't think that Bill does "token" anything in life. Whoever he brought in, he wants their thoughts on this job, the players, the offense, etc.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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That I vividly remember so many of the names on this OC list actually playing football...I feel fucking old.
 

joe dokes

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That's a dangerous game to play. Ideally, you want someone in as the OC as soon as you can so they can start preparing for free agency and the draft. If he wants to return to the NFL, it may also not be with New England. His buddy Monti Ossenfort just took over in Arizona and he may get a shot to interview for the HC job there and his other buddy Mike Vrabel has an OC opening in Tennessee. If Brady wants to come back to Tampa, it may be with BOB as OC there. LAC has the appeal of working with Justin Herbert. Waiting around for his contract to end is not how you want to play this. If O'Brien wants to do this, Bill will have to work it out with Saban to let him out as soon as he can. Maybe that is after the late signing day(2/1)? Who knows.
I would think that BB is *not* "waiting for the contract to run out" of his own acccord. *If* that's what's happening (interview notwithstanding), it's coming from O'B's side. I cannot imagine BB engaging in unilateral disarmament like that.
 

RedOctober3829

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I would think that BB is *not* "waiting for the contract to run out" of his own acccord. *If* that's what's happening (interview notwithstanding), it's coming from O'B's side. I cannot imagine BB engaging in unilateral disarmament like that.
It sure seems like he has been waiting for the last year plus with O'Brien. He could have gone after him last year but by all accounts did not out of respect for Saban.
 

joe dokes

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It sure seems like he has been waiting for the last year plus with O'Brien. He could have gone after him last year but by all accounts did not out of respect for Saban.
I think (YMMV) not going after him last year at all is quite different than not reaching out to him *now* when others are. Especially since it would seem that no one was able to pry him from Alabama. I'm not talking about whether it would have helped the team in '22 or whether BB made a mistake. I'm only responding to the idea that his respect for Saban would lead him to do nothing while 5 other teams are talking to O'B *now*.
 

BaseballJones

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It sure seems like he has been waiting for the last year plus with O'Brien. He could have gone after him last year but by all accounts did not out of respect for Saban.
What would be really interesting is if BB knew that BOB was the PERFECT guy to run this team, and BOB knew it too, but out of respect for Saban, BB decided to wait a year and use Patricia and Judge as temporary fill-ins who he knew he could move to different positions for 2023. Hoping that their vast football experience would at least keep them competitive (which they were) until he could get BOB in here for this coming year. Maybe by hiring someone else - someone better than Patricia but not as good as O'Brien - he would have kind of gotten stuck with that coach and ended up with someone less than what he deemed to be the best fit for the job.
 

snowmanny

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What would be really interesting is if BB knew that BOB was the PERFECT guy to run this team, and BOB knew it too, but out of respect for Saban, BB decided to wait a year and use Patricia and Judge as temporary fill-ins who he knew he could move to different positions for 2023. Hoping that their vast football experience would at least keep them competitive (which they were) until he could get BOB in here for this coming year. Maybe by hiring someone else - someone better than Patricia but not as good as O'Brien - he would have kind of gotten stuck with that coach and ended up with someone less than what he deemed to be the best fit for the job.
I said this earlier, and who knows if it is true, but Paul Finebaum is of the opinion that Saban is eager to move on from O’Brien.

edit but of course maybe that wasn’t true a year ago
 

RedOctober3829

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What would be really interesting is if BB knew that BOB was the PERFECT guy to run this team, and BOB knew it too, but out of respect for Saban, BB decided to wait a year and use Patricia and Judge as temporary fill-ins who he knew he could move to different positions for 2023. Hoping that their vast football experience would at least keep them competitive (which they were) until he could get BOB in here for this coming year. Maybe by hiring someone else - someone better than Patricia but not as good as O'Brien - he would have kind of gotten stuck with that coach and ended up with someone less than what he deemed to be the best fit for the job.
I don't give Belichick any credit whatsoever for what went on last year. That was ridiculous.
 

BaseballJones

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I don't give Belichick any credit whatsoever for what went on last year. That was ridiculous.
Sure, but to be fair, you have no idea what has been going on behind the scenes. Of course the on-field product suffered this year, however it went down behind the scenes.
 

Granite Sox

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One other interesting note on Jefferson that’s been mentioned by Breer and Perry today is that he’s on a staff whose HC just got whacked, so in addition to interviewing for OC, he may also be interviewing as a position coach. Zolak says he’s a different cat and very intense. Supposed forte is coaching “well-timed combination routes” that can be used against man or zone. Sounds like we could use something like that.

McCardell also seems like a ”legit” interview based on his experience and Coach Bill’s respect for him.

Not sure what the appeal is for Klemm, as he wasn’t great in Pittsburgh and Bedard says he is overwhelmed and over his head at Oregon in the Matt Patricia 2022 role.
 

RedOctober3829

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Sure, but to be fair, you have no idea what has been going on behind the scenes. Of course the on-field product suffered this year, however it went down behind the scenes.
Yeah we don't have any idea what went on. Apparently whatever we thought went on during the season by what we could see, it was even worse behind the scenes. Every beat writer I listen to on podcasts say the stories they've heard are bad. Lots of in-fighting between the offense and the coaching staff.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I am at the point where if it is BOB, I will be a little disappointed that there was not another candidate that stood out as fresh and innovative.

I am also at the point where if I heard it was not BOB that I will be a little disappointed we did not get him.

So maybe the pooridge is neither too hot nor too cold.
 

mauf

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Thoughts on Leftwich? Why wouldn't he be good?
I think Leftwich did a great job getting the most out of Brady and the other veterans on the Tampa Bay offense these past three years. I think he’s unfairly being scapegoated for the Bucs’ disappointing 2022 season. But he’s a better fit for a situation like Denver, or maybe the Jets with a new veteran QB, then he is for New England, where success will depend in large part on developing a young QB. It’s not Leftwich’s fault that he hasn’t done that — the ghost of Bill Walsh couldn’t have turned Jameis Winston or Josh Rosen into a star QB — but where that’s the overriding need, other candidates are going to be a better fit.
 

Ralphwiggum

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What would be really interesting is if BB knew that BOB was the PERFECT guy to run this team, and BOB knew it too, but out of respect for Saban, BB decided to wait a year and use Patricia and Judge as temporary fill-ins who he knew he could move to different positions for 2023. Hoping that their vast football experience would at least keep them competitive (which they were) until he could get BOB in here for this coming year. Maybe by hiring someone else - someone better than Patricia but not as good as O'Brien - he would have kind of gotten stuck with that coach and ended up with someone less than what he deemed to be the best fit for the job.
Is there any scenario involving the Patriots that you wouldn't spin into something positive? This is borderline fan fiction. It's not like BOB is some kid of offensive savant in waiting, he's thoroughly a known quantity and if BB trashed a year of his dwindling coaching career (as well as a year of Kraft's ownership at 80-something years old) to wait for BOB, he's an idiot. You know, it is ok to sometimes criticize the teams you root for. Christ.
 

BaseballJones

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Is there any scenario involving the Patriots that you wouldn't spin into something positive? This is borderline fan fiction. It's not like BOB is some kid of offensive savant in waiting, he's thoroughly a known quantity and if BB trashed a year of his dwindling coaching career (as well as a year of Kraft's ownership at 80-something years old) to wait for BOB, he's an idiot. You know, it is ok to sometimes criticize the teams you root for. Christ.
I didn't say this did happen. I said it would be interesting IF that's what happened.

You offer a lot of hyperbole of my posting here. I'm very critical of the Pats when it's warranted. I've said numerous times that this coaching situation was a disaster. I'm one of the biggest pro-Mac guys on the board and even *I* came to the point where I was criticizing his play often this season. If you missed all that, well, you missed it.

Yes, I'm one of the more positive guys here. I wear that label proudly. But it's untrue that I don't offer criticism. But even if it WAS true, why would that bother you so much? I've never said it's "not ok" to criticize the Pats. You're more than welcome to do it. Doesn't bother me. Why does me being positive bother you?
 

BigJimEd

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@BaseballJones isn't the first to suggest that theory either. It's been floating around.


The reports I've seen indicate O'Brien rebuffed anything and told BB and others he made a two year commitment.
“I made a commitment to Coach Saban,” O’Brien said. “Those things come up relative to what your role is in different programs, where you’ve been. I’ve been doing this a long time and I’ve had various roles in coaching, so obviously, those things come up.



“But I made a commitment to Coach Saban. I love coaching here.

Two questions: Do you think J. Mayo has a seat at the table in these hires? Also, could some of the people BB and staff interview be hired for OLC and QBC?
Good question on Mayo. I'd guess he's probably involved at some point. Bring him in for at least part of the interview.

For OLC and QBC?
First, I think whoever the OC is, he will have some say on the staff, particularly if it is BoB.

Klemm seems to be the only qualified candidate to work with line. He left the Steelers to join Oregon so he may be looking for me than just OL coach. OL and RBG? Maybe but would the new OC be good with that?

Don't see anyone outside O'Brien with experience working with QBs and don't see him taking anything less than OC. Jefferson and McCardell are obviously WR guys and nothing in Caley resume to date shows he's qualified to work with a young QB. They didn't putt him there last season so seems unlikely they would do it now.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I didn't say this did happen. I said it would be interesting IF that's what happened.
That’s kind of what fan fiction is.

I like positivity. Like posters who on draft day find good bits from the tape for a new guy. But that’s different from, say, posting fantasy scenarios that it would be interesting if guys deliberately ran slow 40s to drop to your favorite team.
 

Caspir

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What would be really interesting is if BB knew that BOB was the PERFECT guy to run this team, and BOB knew it too, but out of respect for Saban, BB decided to wait a year and use Patricia and Judge as temporary fill-ins who he knew he could move to different positions for 2023. Hoping that their vast football experience would at least keep them competitive (which they were) until he could get BOB in here for this coming year. Maybe by hiring someone else - someone better than Patricia but not as good as O'Brien - he would have kind of gotten stuck with that coach and ended up with someone less than what he deemed to be the best fit for the job.
It wouldn't be interesting at all. If BB actively hamstrung his coaching staff by hiring two grossly incompetent failures rather than the guy he wanted, wasting a year with a QB on a rookie contract and stunting his development out of a sense of loyalty to a college football coach, he should be fired immediately. That would be the Mt Everest of arrogance and fuck-facery. This is like a hidden chapter in A Gronking to Remember level fantasy.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I didn't say this did happen. I said it would be interesting IF that's what happened.
Right, so fan fiction.

@BaseballJones isn't the first to suggest that theory either. It's been floating around.


The reports I've seen indicate O'Brien rebuffed anything and told BB and others he made a two year commitment.
It is one thing to say BB wanted BOB last year and was told he had to wait a year. It is another entirely to suggest that he threw away a year of Mac's development by putting two guys in charge of the offense who had no business being in charge to wait for him. BOB might be a great OC, but he's not some unicorn offensive guru who you throw a season away waiting for. It would be a pretty massive indictment of BB's judgment if this is in fact true.

EDIT: Or what @Caspir just said.
 

BigJimEd

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Right, so fan fiction.



It is one thing to say BB wanted BOB last year and was told he had to wait a year. It is another entirely to suggest that he threw away a year of Mac's development by putting two guys in charge of the offense who had no business being in charge to wait for him. BOB might be a great OC, but he's not some unicorn offensive guru who you throw a season away waiting for. It would be a pretty massive indictment of BB's judgment if this is in fact true.

EDIT: Or what @Caspir just said.
I don't think that's what happened but it's been thrown out there including by media members. Well not the "out of respect for Saban" but just that Belichick was eying O'Brien this year and thought they could get by with Patricia/Judge for a season.

As said, I don't think that is what happens so I won't belabor the sidetrack any further.
 

Cellar-Door

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Two questions: Do you think J. Mayo has a seat at the table in these hires? Also, could some of the people BB and staff interview be hired for OLC and QBC?
I doubt it on Mayo, at most maybe Bill lets him sit in to learn how it works, but even that I would doubt. The OC reports to the HC, he's Mayo's peer not subordinate, and however much they may like Mayo, he's not a guy in a position where he should have any say on the OC hiring process.

As to other spots... probably not? These guys all have jobs on that level already, their teams would be highly unlikely to let them leave for the Patriots, plus, they run different schemes.
 
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I don’t think Bill makes many multi-year plans. He’s more about the full time, all the time, grind. Yes, he tries to chart the development of players and coaches to build organizational depth, resilience, etc. but he would never do anything other than “what’s in the best interests of the team” right now. He made two big mistakes here: Not having a good succession plan for McDaniels’ departure, which he had to at least expect was likely at some point; and misjudging Patricia and Judge’s competence and/or fit with Mac. Now he’s back to the grind to fix it, probably for 16+ hours a day.
 

lexrageorge

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There is literally zero chance Bill made the decision to hire Patricia and Judge so they could be the offensive coaches for a year while he waited for BoB to become available. Literally fiction, no matter what the Bedard's of the world claim.

The simplest and most straightforward explanation should be assumed correct until there is actually evidence otherwise. And that is that Bill thought that their familiarity with the system would make them better choices than bringing in new faces with more extensive experience in coaching offenses. It turned out to be the wrong decision for all involved. Sometimes even Belichick makes the wrong decision. But now he has since made a decision to correct that mistake.
 

Shelterdog

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I don't think Reiss isn't plugged-in because he obviously is. Just going by the write-ups though, it sounds more like he is speculating based on what people in football have some connection to Belichick, which is certainly worthy of some informed speculation, but doesn't feel very definitive.
Looking back at the article Reiss's "speculation" included Caley, BOB, McCardle and Jefferson so I'm guessing it was actually a pretty definitive/reported/informed list rather than just his speculation.