The Ringer

HowBoutDemSox

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While I enjoy the substance, the format of their omnibus NBA restart coverage is really annoying. You have to scroll from the top past more recent stories to get to the game you want, with no quick links (or direct links of any kind) and without any sorting option, and the whole thing is already so massive it has trouble loading on my phone.
 

johnmd20

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While I enjoy the substance, the format of their omnibus NBA restart coverage is really annoying. You have to scroll from the top past more recent stories to get to the game you want, with no quick links (or direct links of any kind) and without any sorting option, and the whole thing is already so massive it has trouble loading on my phone.
It's chronological. And considering it is The Ringer's goal to keep you on the website, the fact that scrolling is required is on purpose. I guess if you're really pissed, you could email The Ringer and ask for your money back.

And I just loaded it on my phone and the load took less than 2 seconds.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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It's chronological. And considering it is The Ringer's goal to keep you on the website, the fact that scrolling is required is on purpose. I guess if you're really pissed, you could email The Ringer and ask for your money back.

And I just loaded it on my phone and the load took less than 2 seconds.
I get that it's chronological, but if all I want is to read their Celtics/76ers writeup, I have to scroll manually through two Mavs/Clippers pieces first. Nothing about this is the end of the world but it's an inconvenient way to arrange things.
 

ifmanis5

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Pay up, Bill.
View: https://twitter.com/RingerUnion/status/1296491944659554304



At our last bargaining session, the Ringer Union submitted to management the following letter, signed by 98 percent of our unit, on the importance of improving pay and establishing pathways to promotion.
Our goal as a union is to ensure that everyone who is responsible for The Ringer’s great writing, graphics, podcasts, and videos is treated with respect, given equal opportunities for advancement, and, most crucially, paid fairly.
Too many of our members have said that they struggle to cover basic living expenses from month to month, and too many of our members say that they have received little to no salary increases even as they take on more responsibilities.
Management insists on maintaining absolute discretion over individual compensation, which leaves room for inequality and bias. Our proposal would allow management to provide additional salary increases on an individual basis while securing crucial safeguards for all our members.
Many of us have asked for and been denied promotions with little explanation, including those who were hired at the company’s founding. In that span, our managers’ titles have changed repeatedly. We believe that pathways to promotion are a crucial part of an equitable workplace.
Members of underrepresented groups are less likely to have financial safety nets and more likely to turn down low-paid positions without sufficient compensation or guaranteed annual cost-of-living increases. Maintaining a diverse workplace does not begin and end with hiring.
We as a unit support these measures and urge management to do the same. We want to collaborate with The Ringer, and Spotify, in making this a better place to work.
 

Clears Cleaver

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these people are delusional ..."please go find your open market value and let us know. We'll match if we see fit."
 

Kliq

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Lol, I'm a full time journalist basically running a weekly newspaper by myself for Gannett and I make $27,000 and nobody ever gets a raise. Silver spoon Duke grad Shaker Samman isn't getting much of my sympathy because people wouldn't pay him more to write about the cast of Tenant.
 
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Pablo's TB Lover

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Is this salary in line with other sports journalism roles?

Seems pretty low to me.

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/ShakerSamman/status/1296503308689928194
I think everyone knows by now the Ringer revenue is driven more via podcasts than anything else (that is what Spotify was buying into). Seems like short money but if anyone besides the experienced feature writers with capital "J" Journalistic publications makes close to or beyond 6 figures I'd be really surprised. But I guess podcasting, although lucrative, is a black box. You could tell me Jason Concepcion makes $60k or $300k or even more and I'd be like huh, interesting. KOC was primarily a writer for awhile and stayed east, then I'm sure not coincidentally once he started regularly doing pods and videos he moved out towards Ringer HQ which is a big financial commitment.
 

shaggydog2000

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Lol, I'm a full time journalist basically running a weekly newspaper by myself for Gannett and I make $27,000 and nobody ever gets a raise. Silver spoon Duke grad Shaker Samman isn't getting much of my sympathy because people wouldn't pay him more to write about the cast of Tenant.
Also, if you have a job you can do from anywhere, why complain that you don't get paid enough to live where everybody wants to? Sometimes you need to make the decision lots of people before you have and take your salary somewhere it goes farther. I get that there are more media opportunities in those cities, but if they're not allowed to do outside work then that doesn't really matter.
 

nattysez

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Also, if you have a job you can do from anywhere, why complain that you don't get paid enough to live where everybody wants to? Sometimes you need to make the decision lots of people before you have and take your salary somewhere it goes farther. I get that there are more media opportunities in those cities, but if they're not allowed to do outside work then that doesn't really matter.
That Shaker Samman person whose tweet is quoted above later tweeted that the Ringer employees were subject to "a mandate to live in Los Angeles," so the geographic flexibility you're assuming may not exist.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Is this salary in line with other sports journalism roles?

Seems pretty low to me.

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/ShakerSamman/status/1296503308689928194
Interesting to know what he's doing next and what he's getting paid for it. Those salaries look low in the abstract---but the market for early-in-their-career writers is pretty lousy right now so I'm not sure whether mid-$40s is more "beats driving an Uber" or "unreasonably low"

Some here have a lot more knowledge there, what say you all?
 

Royal Reader

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Well, if you're making $40k you're in the top half of Americans. The dqydj calculator suggests that earning $39k puts you in the 49th percentile in the LA metro area, but ziprecruiter (topical, for a ringer discussion) suggests that you'd need to make $52k just to be in the 25th percentile, and the average salary is $75k. Is it possible that ZR (and other sources that have similar numbers) are using City data, and there's that big a difference between city and metro area? I'd have thought not, given that Anaheim is famously affluent, but I don't know SoCal very well at all.
 

The Social Chair

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Low level online magazine jobs shouldn't require staff to live in LA or NY. You can write about the cast of Tenant or edit from anywhere. A crappy 1br apartment in LA is $1,800/mo now.

If Simmons needs people on site for video/podcasts he should pay them better. I'm guessing the 2% who didn't sign were Ryen Russilo and Nephew Kyle.
 

Rwillh11

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Interesting to know what he's doing next and what he's getting paid for it. Those salaries look low in the abstract---but the market for early-in-their-career writers is pretty lousy right now so I'm not sure whether mid-$40s is more "beats driving an Uber" or "unreasonably low"

Some here have a lot more knowledge there, what say you all?
I would have expected a national outlet like The Ringer to be starting people around 50 (best guess would have been about 55k) , and would have expected someone who has been there a few years to be clearing 60. If there really is a "live in LA" mandate, I would have guessed even higher. But thats based on what people make in political/news journalism, at national outlets, as opposed to sports - and so sports writing may just pay less. And I may also be overinflating how "big" of a publication the ringer is, just because its one of the few sports places I read regularly.
 
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Kenny F'ing Powers

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Umm ... not in smaller markets

The last reporter we hired came in at $16/hr
Right. I mean, in what world are low-tier journalists making more than what he posted? Low 40's for a few years of internships/entry level work is market level for many industries. Probably high end for journalism.
 

shaggydog2000

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That Shaker Samman person whose tweet is quoted above later tweeted that the Ringer employees were subject to "a mandate to live in Los Angeles," so the geographic flexibility you're assuming may not exist.
The phrasing from the union didn't sound like that, but I could see that being true. From what I've heard before about the pop culture and sports market, this doesn't sound all that bad. He even got paid in his first year as an intern, and media is pretty famous for unpaid internships. Of course, they can always ask for more as a union. They wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't. I just don't feel all that bad for them based on this tweet.
 

E5 Yaz

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Right. I mean, in what world are low-tier journalists making more than what he posted? Low 40's for a few years of internships/entry level work is market level for many industries. Probably high end for journalism.
Right, got it. We've had 2-3 recent grads express shock at what starting salaries are in small market dailies. One countered by asking for a figure that would make them the second-highest paid person in the newsroom. Another actually said that she "wouldn't clean bathrooms for that."

We wished them good luck in their future endeavors.
 
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That salary actually surprised me at how high it is. I feel like most entry-level jobs in competitive fields like sports journalism pay $35K if you're lucky. Look at entertainment - if you want to start out as a PA, you get paid dogshit for an opportunity at a possibly lucrative career.

If it was hard for them to find people who'll write about pop culture and sports for $40K fresh out of college, then they would pay more in order to attract more applicants.

And as far as living in LA, yeah a 1BR is expensive, but he could also do what pretty much everyone else does when they go the big city right out of college - live with roommates. You can live in a house in the valley with friends for like $500-$600 per person, which is more than affordable on a $40K a year salary.

I admire people standing up for entry level pay because I think it prevents underprivileged applicants from being able to "stick with it" during the most difficult part of their career. But there's another part of me that's saying "back in my day" (10 years ago) and thinking of all the sacrifices I made, from living with other people to eating PB &Js for dinner, etc. until I was able to afford to be an adult. I hope that the union gets what they want, but I'm not crying for Shaker making $45k a year with health benefits.
 

shaggydog2000

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That salary actually surprised me at how high it is. I feel like most entry-level jobs in competitive fields like sports journalism pay $35K if you're lucky. Look at entertainment - if you want to start out as a PA, you get paid dogshit for an opportunity at a possibly lucrative career.

If it was hard for them to find people who'll write about pop culture and sports for $40K fresh out of college, then they would pay more in order to attract more applicants.

And as far as living in LA, yeah a 1BR is expensive, but he could also do what pretty much everyone else does when they go the big city right out of college - live with roommates. You can live in a house in the valley with friends for like $500-$600 per person, which is more than affordable on a $40K a year salary.

I admire people standing up for entry level pay because I think it prevents underprivileged applicants from being able to "stick with it" during the most difficult part of their career. But there's another part of me that's saying "back in my day" (10 years ago) and thinking of all the sacrifices I made, from living with other people to eating PB &Js for dinner, etc. until I was able to afford to be an adult. I hope that the union gets what they want, but I'm not crying for Shaker making $45k a year with health benefits.
Yeah, I got an engineering degree. My major had some of the top starting salaries in the country. I still lived with a room mate until my mid-late 20s. My friends who majored in the sciences were making 60% of what I was and were living with 3-4 room mates at a time until they went back to school and got PHDs. But we weren't twitter famous.

Unpaid internships are where they really screw the underprivileged. A lot of people who wanted to be in entertainment/media jobs couldn't afford to get the experience to get an entry level job. But I think they've cracked down on that in general, and the pay Samman stated for interns isn't bad.
 

tmracht

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Yeah, I got an engineering degree. My major had some of the top starting salaries in the country. I still lived with a room mate until my mid-late 20s. My friends who majored in the sciences were making 60% of what I was and were living with 3-4 room mates at a time until they went back to school and got PHDs. But we weren't twitter famous.
Yep same I had a good engineering job lined up before I graduated and I still lived at my parents house until my late 20s. I too was not twitter famous. But now I have 4 beams in my house so I've almost made it.
 

shaggydog2000

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Yep same I had a good engineering job lined up before I graduated and I still lived at my parents house until my late 20s. I too was not twitter famous. But now I have 4 beams in my house so I've almost made it.
Hey everybody, look at Mr. Bigshot 4 beam guy over here!
 

Kliq

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A kid getting out of college and going straight to an trendy outlet like The Ringer and making $45,000 is the journalism equivalent of being a software engineer and landing a $150,000 job at Google or Apple.
 

johnmd20

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A kid getting out of college and going straight to an trendy outlet like The Ringer and making $45,000 is the journalism equivalent of being a software engineer and landing a $150,000 job at Google or Apple.
He started at 39k, but, still, that's a pretty good salary for a starting position in an industry that is pretty competitive and not necessarily a big money maker.

The only person who probably has a gripe is Concepcion. Just for binge mode alone.
 

kelpapa

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I missed the journalism pay discussion, but one of the factors that led to me leaving journalism was that I was making more money slanging TV's at Sears than what the newspaper was able to pay me. This was in 2007.
 

Bozo Texino

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The Pump Up the Volume episode of The Rewatchables is pretty great if you're into Bill Simmons acting like the coolest dude in the room.

I'm sure he was a HUGE fan of Camper Van Beethoven. Totally.
 

Swedgin

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Robert Mays, one of the Grantland OG's, left for the Athletic. They are promoting the football podcast "The Athletic Football Show Podcast featuring Robert Mays on their front/landing page.
 

tmracht

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Not surprising, Robert Mays is a good podcaster for football. That's a good get.b a podcast is definitely going on my subscriptions.
 

Leather

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The Pump Up the Volume episode of The Rewatchables is pretty great if you're into Bill Simmons acting like the coolest dude in the room.

I'm sure he was a HUGE fan of Camper Van Beethoven. Totally.
Haven't listened to this one yet. I enjoy The Rewatchables, it's a loose hang. That said, I think (so far after listening to a half-dozen or so) the ones where Chris Ryan is involved are the best ones because he's kind of a more chill version of Chuck Klosterman. Meaning, he knows his pop culture way, way, more than Simmons does and isn't afraid to push back a bit when Simmons says something ridiculous to the point of self-parody, like when he suggests that Alicia Silverstone could have been good in The Last of the Mohicans.

I'm listening to the When Harry Met Sally one now, and he is completely ill-equipped to discuss the Annie Hall influences on the movie. And his guests kind of address it, and Simmons just blows it off, and whatever (even though Reiner himself has admitted the influence, and it's pretty much obvious), but it also seems pretty clear that Simmons has never actually watched Annie Hall, which makes his "WHMS Invented Rom Coms! It's the first modern Rom Com!" statements a little ridiculous. And it doesn't really matter; with Simmons, WYSIWYG, but whenever the discussion turns to movies that predate 1981 or so, the discussion really benefits from having someone with a little more general knowledge.

EDIT: it's also a little cringe-y that he slips in references to female actors' physical attractiveness a lot. Like jeez, just the two I've heard today: discussing the little sister in The Last of the Mohicans ("I would have liked someone a little better looking"); and When Harry Met Sally ("I always liked the actress..., I never understood why she didn't become a bigger star, she was one of the better looking late 80s actresses.").
 
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allstonite

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Yeah I like Simmons and think rewatchables is great and it’s his baby but I’m starting to feel he should only be on for his movies. Whenever he’s seen something 100 times he excels but if not it can be a slog. He misses obvious references and context when the other people try to bring it up. He also gets too fixated on his categories. While I get they’re there to guide the discussion there are so many cases where a guest will start talking and he’ll jump in with “wait I had that in another category” and it stops any momentum and conversation. I wish he’d go back to free flowing conversation and then use the categories when that stalls.

Also, and this just may be be, Simmons shouldn’t be on any modern (post 2000ish) comedy movies. I don’t think he’s a bad guy but he truly doesn’t understand woke/PC whatever culture. Every discussion winds up in his “this couldn’t be made today/I’m worried about comedy” terrible take. He’s been eulogizing comedy for about 10 years now. Just on the 40 year old virgin one alone he used “cancel culture” unironically and completely missed Chris and Sean’s point about the other guys in the group being losers. so while they talked the way they did, they weren’t portrayed as cool or even happy.

Finally, while I’m thankful they went to 2 a week, I wish they coordinated more with what’s actually available to stream at a given time. The last 5 and like 8 of the last 10 are rental only I usually like to watch before listening when possible and they make it difficult.

Still with all those complaints still a top 5 podcast in my rotation and I love it
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Yeah I like Simmons and think rewatchables is great and it’s his baby but I’m starting to feel he should only be on for his movies. Whenever he’s seen something 100 times he excels but if not it can be a slog. He misses obvious references and context when the other people try to bring it up. He also gets too fixated on his categories. While I get they’re there to guide the discussion there are so many cases where a guest will start talking and he’ll jump in with “wait I had that in another category” and it stops any momentum and conversation. I wish he’d go back to free flowing conversation and then use the categories when that stalls.

Also, and this just may be be, Simmons shouldn’t be on any modern (post 2000ish) comedy movies. I don’t think he’s a bad guy but he truly doesn’t understand woke/PC whatever culture. Every discussion winds up in his “this couldn’t be made today/I’m worried about comedy” terrible take. He’s been eulogizing comedy for about 10 years now. Just on the 40 year old virgin one alone he used “cancel culture” unironically and completely missed Chris and Sean’s point about the other guys in the group being losers. so while they talked the way they did, they weren’t portrayed as cool or even happy.

Finally, while I’m thankful they went to 2 a week, I wish they coordinated more with what’s actually available to stream at a given time. The last 5 and like 8 of the last 10 are rental only I usually like to watch before listening when possible and they make it difficult.

Still with all those complaints still a top 5 podcast in my rotation and I love it
I know I'm spitting into the wind here, because hes a favorite beat bag, but I think this is almost entirely all silly - except for the note on him and the 40 Year Old Virgin usage of cancel culture, I kinda cringed at that too, but more like "you can't say that right now man". I don't think Sean or Chris had anything enlightening to say about the rest of the gang in that movie that wasn't already apparent when it came out. As to "his" movies, the goal of the pod is ones you've seen a bunch of times - I think the most recent has been Dunkirk? - so it's going to skew towards 80s-2010sish, because that's his wheelhouse and that's his audience.

I think he jams through the categories and drives the conversation with them, particularly because they've spent so much time in free flow and he's trying to keep it near an hour long; he does kind of come off like a parent or referee at times, so I do notice that, but someone has to. The "I had that in 'what's aged the worst' type comment is generally just giving himself bonus points when the other guys get there first. I agree those habits both get kind of annoying, but it is what it is.

The post 2000ish thing I think is kind of, if not entirely, off base; there are tons of comedies that would never be made today, at least in the same form and to the same level of success that have come out since then. The Hangover trilogy made over $1B and the last one was 2013; Ted was 2012; Wedding Crashers was 2005; shit, Deadpool 2 was only 2018 and I wonder if even that would get made today (probably, but still...).

Would a movie about a cross dressing, dead beat dad essentially kidnapping his own kids get made? A life long loser stalking down his high school crush while her developmentally disabled brother is a centerpiece of derision? If done right, sure; but would we still have Mrs. Doubtfire and There's Something About Mary in their current glory? :shrug: Anyway, there's a ton of movies that wouldn't get made today, 2000ish isn't any form of demarcation. Woke culture really didn't even become a true thing until a couple years ago. I'm not sure anyone is tuning in to listen to a woke discussion about the gratuitous nudity in Wedding Crashers or the gay jokes in 40yoV and how they don't fit today's culture. There's also the aspect that some people don't really care that much if he's a little off-PC because, well, a lot of the population finds it annoying. If anything I think he's smart enough to

The last thing there, they made a point to mention that Pump Up the Volume was the only movie they've done that couldn't be found on streaming, somewhere (likely due to the soundtrack). But to run through the last 10 or so:

Dangerous Minds : Amazon Prime
Cocktail : Amazon Prime
40 yo Virgin : Netflix
Pump Up the Volume : N/A
Caddyshack : Amazon Prime
Bad Boys : Amazon Prime
Last of the Mohicans : Netflix or Amazon
Tenn Wolf : Amazon Prime
Sandlot : Disney+
Ghost : Hulu
Conjuring : Amazon Prime
25th Hour : Amazon Prime

Many of these are also on individual channel streaming channels, like HBO, Showtime, AMC, FX, etc; or Apple, Redbox, Vudu, etc for rental. There's also secondary steaming sites that carry stuff. Some of those Amazon ones are Prime Free or some are $2.99.

Did you mean strictly "free" streaming? Go to youtube, it'll probably be broken up into parts (this is how they did Pump Up the Volume), but there's not much you can't find on there that someone ripped from a DVD. Download an app to your phone if you're having trouble finding something, you may not be looking in the right place. Apps like Yidio, Reelgood or Justwatch are great for this and will search hundreds of streaming sites. IMDb has a feature called Freedive that does the same; and the AppleTV app on a Roku or Fire will do it as well. If you want them to carve out their list based on only what's included in membership streaming services, I'm not sure what to say, but there wouldn't be a ton to work with - the model has shifted towards original content and away from paying royalties; there's a small percentage of what used to be on a Netflix for TV or movies that isn't original content.

In short, I'm bored.
 

Leather

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Yeah, I mean, lord knows I’m not the biggest Simmons fan but he brings his views and that’s cool. I’m amused both by what he says and, in many cases, by the fact that it’s him saying it. Like in “The Firm” one he’s talking about 1993 movies and how “The Firm” was really one of the more awards-ready films of the year, and kind of glosses over other movies and kind of goes “See? not a big year for serious films! There were no big awards movie that year!” And Evans waits a beat and says “Well...Schindler’s List.” And Simmons just kind of audibly shrugs. Like “I guess.”

As if fucking “Schindler’s List” didn’t merit mentioning not only in a convo about 1993 movies, but in a convo about Oscar-worthy 1993 movies! I just had to laugh.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Yeah, I mean, lord knows I’m not the biggest Simmons fan but he brings his views and that’s cool. I’m amused both by what he says and, in many cases, by the fact that it’s him saying it. Like in “The Firm” one he’s talking about 1993 movies and how “The Firm” was really one of the more awards-ready films of the year, and kind of glosses over other movies and kind of goes “See? not a big year for serious films! There were no big awards movie that year!” And Evans waits a beat and says “Well...Schindler’s List.” And Simmons just kind of audibly shrugs. Like “I guess.”

As if fucking “Schindler’s List” didn’t merit mentioning not only in a convo about 1993 movies, but in a convo about Oscar-worthy 1993 movies! I just had to laugh.
He had a similar take recently about Munich being boring and the slot should have gone to 40 YO Virgin, which he repeated ad nauseam about falling asleep during it, but he was totally poking fun at himself for it. I'm not sure anyone ever accused him of being the brightest bulb or well rounded, but yeah.

That one was pretty bad for him. He had that take on Munich; he had no idea who Carrell was before the movie; and had some convoluted rant about movies being too short/too long that he kept flip flopping on, while admitting his own columns were way too long. People knock him for no longer being "Boston Sports Guy" and carrying that every man persona, but that's exactly what he comes off as in this medium for movies; everyone has a friend that gets details wrong, has crazy opinions and you just generally look at them like "you're an idiot".
 

Leather

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That’s exactly it. It’s as if your third-favorite old college house mate came over to hang out and talk about things, but does so like it’s still 1996. It’s simultaneously charming and kind of off-putting.
 

JCizzle

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Looks like the Ringer hired Warren Sharp to participate in a football podcast twice a week. I really enjoyed his appearances on PMT, so I'm looking forward to these. They've made some great moves recently with Sharp and Raja Bell, who has been outstanding.

It looks like former NESN anchor (I think? I haven't had NESN for years) Cole Wright will also be hosting a new pod.

Here’s our @ringer NFL lineup for 2020 — we spun off our superb fantasy pod, and we added many new voices to our daily Ringer NFL pod including a Wed/Fri gambling/analytics show (welcome, Warren Sharp!) and a weekly player perspective show (welcome, Ryan Shazier + Cole Wright!).
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Sharp is fantastic. Great get for the Ringer - I would think that becomes a must-listen for hardcore NFL stat nerds.