The Ringer

HoyaSoxa

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Artists not included yet:

Pearl Jam (yes, Temple of the Dog was in there, but...)
Nine Inch Nails
Marilyn Manson
Eminem
Will Smith
The Offspring
Beastie Boys
Liz Phair
Aerosmith
U2
Ricky Martin
Michael Jackson
Foo Fighters
Green Day
Britney Spears
and of course, Nirvana
Today we got Alice in Chains. Others not on this list:
  • Janet Jackson (arguably bigger than Michael in the 90s)
  • Jane's Addiction (or Porno for Pyros)
  • Destiny's Child
  • Beck (with Hanson digression)
  • Bush (or Stone Temple Pilots) - often mocked as derivative, but unquestionably huge in their day
  • Ace of Base (you had to be there in 1993)
 
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Leather

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Today we got Alice in Chains. Others not on this list:
  • Janet Jackson (arguably bigger than Michael in the 90s)
  • Jane's Addiction (or Porno for Pyros)
  • Destiny's Child
  • Beck (with Hanson digression)
  • Bush (or Stone Temple Pilots) - often mocked as derivative, but unquestionably huge in their day
  • Ace of Base (you had to be there in 1993)
What is the Hanson digression, and how does it relate to Beck [Hansen]?

There's also no Uncle Tupelo/Son Volt/Wilco/Jayhawks song to "explain" the No Depression/Alt Country movement that started in the mid 90s. I'd choose New Madrid but any song by any of those guys would do the trick.
 

HoyaSoxa

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What is the Hanson digression, and how does it relate to Beck [Hansen]?

There's also no Uncle Tupelo/Son Volt/Wilco/Jayhawks song to "explain" the No Depression/Alt Country movement that started in the mid 90s. I'd choose New Madrid but any song by any of those guys would do the trick.
I swear I had heard Beck and Hanson were related, but it must just be the New Radicals playing tricks on me/ the Mandela Effect (which features prominently in the Klosterman's 90's book).
 

CaptainLaddie

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where the darn libs live
Completely random thought: so, I love Kevin Clark and Slow News Day. I think he's fantastic, remarkably quick on his feet on podcasts and SND, and he's really good at interviewing and only getting better at it. I could see him hosting a late night talk show at some point in the (probably far) future.
I want to reiterate this.

Kevin is so goddamn good at this. He's funny as fuck, has a super quick wit, and is excellent at getting good answers. He knows how to shut up, which seems to be half the battle.

Honestly, he'd be better at Jimmy Fallon's job than Jimmy Fallon is, right now.
 

Leather

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Glad they did Parenthood.

Van Lathan was the MVP of the episode. It's too bad they couldn't get Fennessy, given that he's a new dad. I felt this was one where he would have been a better choice than CR.
 

johnmd20

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Glad they did Parenthood.

Van Lathan was the MVP of the episode. It's too bad they couldn't get Fennessy, given that he's a new dad. I felt this was one where he would have been a better choice than CR.
He is the MVP of every episode he's on. Ringerverse, Rewatchables, with Rusillo, wherever he is, he's the best.

He is truly hilarious. The Ringer hiring Rusillo and Van in the last two years has paid off, both guys are entertaining, in very different ways.

At this point, Simmons is entertaining to mock.
 

Stevie1der

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I just started the 60 songs that Explain the 90s. I’m really enjoying it, but I noticed that each episode ends with the host introducing the song in full. But then I only hear a brief piece of it. Should I be hearing the whole song? Is this only if I pay for Spotify? Just curious, I’m not too broke up about it either way, there are obviously plenty of places to hear these songs in full.
 

johnmd20

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I just started the 60 songs that Explain the 90s. I’m really enjoying it, but I noticed that each episode ends with the host introducing the song in full. But then I only hear a brief piece of it. Should I be hearing the whole song? Is this only if I pay for Spotify? Just curious, I’m not too broke up about it either way, there are obviously plenty of places to hear these songs in full.
You should be hearing the songs in full. I am, but I am a subscriber. So maybe that's why you don't get the whole song.

The song is actually not a part of the Podcast, you actually get sent to the song track once the podcast ends.
 

Auger34

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Wow, thank you for sharing. Definitely got very dusty in here.

My mom died when I was 12 (I’m 33 now). She had breast cancer that was thought to be in remission but it came back and was too much.

Even though I lived in Tampa, I became very interested in Boston sports around that time to connect with my Dad and my extended family (all from the Maine area). Gradually I became more obsessed than they did.
Thats about the time that I started “lurking” around SoSH.

As a chunky 12 year old kid in Tampa, FL there definitely weren’t a lot of peers in my age group who shared my obsession or interests and that was one of the hardest years of my life to make friends. It was amazing to me to find a community like SoSH where people not only shared my obsession and knowledge, but actually surpassed it. I felt like I was learning new things all of the time.

I’ve only started posting within the last 4 years or so but I’ve been coming to this site almost every day for 21 years. I remember the days of Maalox, Paul M, and GodSamGod (including that time when John Tomase doxxed him and I believe got him fired from his job at the paper). The internet definitely has its problems but it can also be a great place to feel a part of something. It definitely helped the 12 year old me feel a sense of belonging and community I would have never had the opportunity to feel otherwise.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Wow, thank you for sharing. Definitely got very dusty in here.

My mom died when I was 12 (I’m 33 now). She had breast cancer that was thought to be in remission but it came back and was too much.

Even though I lived in Tampa, I became very interested in Boston sports around that time to connect with my Dad and my extended family (all from the Maine area). Gradually I became more obsessed than they did.
Thats about the time that I started “lurking” around SoSH.

As a chunky 12 year old kid in Tampa, FL there definitely weren’t a lot of peers in my age group who shared my obsession or interests and that was one of the hardest years of my life to make friends. It was amazing to me to find a community like SoSH where people not only shared my obsession and knowledge, but actually surpassed it. I felt like I was learning new things all of the time.

I’ve only started posting within the last 4 years or so but I’ve been coming to this site almost every day for 21 years. I remember the days of Maalox, Paul M, and GodSamGod (including that time when John Tomase doxxed him and I believe got him fired from his job at the paper). The internet definitely has its problems but it can also be a great place to feel a part of something. It definitely helped the 12 year old me feel a sense of belonging and community I would have never had the opportunity to feel otherwise.
Wait, what’s the story with Tomase? I know he was a weaselly little shit, but this sounds like another level.
 

Auger34

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Wait, what’s the story with Tomase? I know he was a weaselly little shit, but this sounds like another level.
I’m trying to Google it now but I can’t find it anywhere. My recollection was that the SoSH poster was in one of the nightly chats and said something about how he needed to take a bong rip and then Tomase ratted him out. I think the SoSH poster worked for a Hartford paper
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I don’t think it was Tomase, TBH. I think it was a co-worker of his at the Hartford Courant.

It was really shitty. And it was a good example of the old newspaper guys not getting it about the Internet.
 

Leather

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Jul 18, 2005
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Batman (1989) on The Rewatchables, and Simmons is really mucking through his own definition of "pop culture" in terms of what the most significant "pop culture role" people had.

He says for Nicholson it's Batman (which is defensible but I don't think it's in the top 3 movies he'll ultimately be remembered for; Cuckoo's Nest, Shining, Chinatown). And then he says for DeNiro it was....

Meet the Parents. Because his son knows it.
 

Shelterdog

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Are you surprised that Simmons views pop culture through this prism of himself?

He's the guy that said that the Simpsons "sucks" because he doesn't like cartoons.
I've been partial to other takes like did 48 hours create the buddy movie, was indiana jones the first action movie, and did fight club invent the anti-hero.
 

8slim

has trust issues
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Batman (1989) on The Rewatchables, and Simmons is really mucking through his own definition of "pop culture" in terms of what the most significant "pop culture role" people had.

He says for Nicholson it's Batman (which is defensible but I don't think it's in the top 3 movies he'll ultimately be remembered for; Cuckoo's Nest, Shining, Chinatown). And then he says for DeNiro it was....

Meet the Parents. Because his son knows it.
They even did a Rewatchables on Taxi Driver, too. Yeesh.
 

Leather

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I just think he thinks “pop culture” only began with John Hughes.
 

Marciano490

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I've been partial to other takes like did 48 hours create the buddy movie, was indiana jones the first action movie, and did fight club invent the anti-hero.
I honestly can’t tell if this is satire or true, which makes it event better either way.
 

Leather

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And Die Hard was the first "modern" action movie, if I recall.
 

TheGazelle

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The best part about all of these is the (often very) pregnant pause you get from CR and Fennessy before one of them has to say "no, Bill, Tyler Durden is not film's first anti-hero" in a way that is not directly insulting to Simmons.
 

Shelterdog

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And Die Hard was the first "modern" action movie, if I recall.
I think that's right and I think i'm misremembering what he said about Indiana Jones. But in any event very few non Godfather movies from before 1980 that he references and it's kind of amazing. You don't have to like old movies to know there were action movies.

The best part about all of these is the (often very) pregnant pause you get from CR and Fennessy before one of them has to say "no, Bill, Tyler Durden is not film's first anti-hero" in a way that is not directly insulting to Simmons.
I think the response there was that it was the first "modern anti-hero' movie in the wave that continued with sopranos breaking bad etc.

They're better men than I am. I would have said something like "no Bill, the first anti hero was probably achilles and he was in basically the first book and folks have been doing that in film since no later than the econd james cagney put a grapefruit in that poor lady's face.
 

Leather

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Ok I finally got around to listening to the rest of the Batman episode.

Couple of other things:

1) They (mostly Bill) really needs to figure out what "Aged Badly" means. Because I think, and I think CP and SF think, that it means "decisions that seemed reasonable, or even celebrated, at the time that with the benefit of time now detract from the movie." Classic examples are jokes built around misogyny and homophobia. It's why "Revenge of the Nerds" has aged spectacularly poorly. Bad casting is not something that ages poorly; it's just a bad decision made at the time. Casting Robert Wuhl was a bad choice in 1989. Likewise, special effects do not "age poorly" in this sense, because nearly all fucking special effects age poorly. There's no way around it; it's what they had to work with. You might as well criticize a movie made in 1989 for not casting Leonardo DiCaprio as Batman.

2) His recasting ideas are horrendous, even for him. Robin Williams for Robert Wuhl? Morgan fucking Freeman as Harvey Dent?! What movie is he watching?

All said and done, and despite this movie being right in his 1989 "wheelhouse," he just doesn't fucking get it, and it's not that hard to get. It was supposed to be a visual representation of a comic book. The colors, the lighting, the over-the-top soundtrack, all stuff he says has aged badly: those are the fucking point of the movie! That's Tim Burton!
 

Mystic Merlin

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Ok I finally got around to listening to the rest of the Batman episode.

Couple of other things:

1) They (mostly Bill) really needs to figure out what "Aged Badly" means. Because I think, and I think CP and SF think, that it means "decisions that seemed reasonable, or even celebrated, at the time that with the benefit of time now detract from the movie." Classic examples are jokes built around misogyny and homophobia. It's why "Revenge of the Nerds" has aged spectacularly poorly. Bad casting is not something that ages poorly; it's just a bad decision made at the time. Casting Robert Wuhl was a bad choice in 1989. Likewise, special effects do not "age poorly" in this sense, because nearly all fucking special effects age poorly. There's no way around it; it's what they had to work with. You might as well criticize a movie made in 1989 for not casting Leonardo DiCaprio as Batman.

2) His recasting ideas are horrendous, even for him. Robin Williams for Robert Wuhl? Morgan fucking Freeman as Harvey Dent?! What movie is he watching?

All said and done, and despite this movie being right in his 1989 "wheelhouse," he just doesn't fucking get it, and it's not that hard to get. It was supposed to be a visual representation of a comic book. The colors, the lighting, the over-the-top soundtrack, all stuff he says has aged badly: those are the fucking point of the movie! That's Tim Burton!
I truly hope we are spared from his ‘Batman Returns’ takes.
 

Leather

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I truly hope we are spared from his ‘Batman Returns’ takes.
He said that one is a better movie. And it might be, but I think he just thinks so because Michelle Pfeiffer is in it and she's his #1 horn-inducer.
 

allstonite

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I would love a Batman Returns one because that movie is even more insane than ‘89 Batman but agree no Bill on that
 

Marciano490

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He said that one is a better movie. And it might be, but I think he just thinks so because Michelle Pfeiffer is in it and she's his #1 horn-inducer.
I dunno man, they should’ve cast fetus Margot Robbie in that role. Would’ve aged better.
 

Shelterdog

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The best part about all of these is the (often very) pregnant pause you get from CR and Fennessy before one of them has to say "no, Bill, Tyler Durden is not film's first anti-hero" in a way that is not directly insulting to Simmons.
They really struggled with his aforementioned statement about Batman being Jack Nicholson's pop culture break out. It was a good long while before SF said that Bill had made a really good point about Jack, Pacino (in dick tracy) and DeNior (in the UNTOUCHABLES per SImmons?) making turns to more popular roles in the late 80s.
 

Leather

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They really struggled with his aforementioned statement about Batman being Jack Nicholson's pop culture break out. It was a good long while before SF said that Bill had made a really good point about Jack, Pacino (in dick tracy) and DeNior (in the UNTOUCHABLES per SImmons?) making turns to more popular roles in the late 80s.
Also when he said Hughes, et al. were the original big budget, movies-to-appeal-to-large-audiences, directors.

Steven Spielberg would like to have a word.
 

Leskanic's Thread

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I really enjoy listening to him talk about dumb 80s and 90s movies. He's a fun guy, and it's a fun hang.
He is a good hang, and I still listen to his football podcasts with Sal and sometimes other ones on his main feed. But even when he's talking about dumb movies, it's like hanging with a fun friend who knows very little but thinks he knows it all. Except instead of being able to bust his chops, I have to also listen to his employees gently push back. The fun fades quickly.
 

Auger34

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He is a good hang, and I still listen to his football podcasts with Sal and sometimes other ones on his main feed. But even when he's talking about dumb movies, it's like hanging with a fun friend who knows very little but thinks he knows it all. Except instead of being able to bust his chops, I have to also listen to his employees gently push back. The fun fades quickly.
I think you nailed what makes it not a “fun hang” for me. If any of us were hanging out with a friend who said such spectacularly stupid stuff with incredible confidence we would all bust their balls. Shit, Simmons himself does this.

But because he’s a pretty sensitive guy and he signs the checks of pretty much every guest he has now, we get a lot of hemming and hawing or as you described it “gentle push back”.

And even that “gentle push back” normally leads to Simmons getting in a huff and going “Am I not allowed to think that?!?!”
 

PC Drunken Friar

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I think you nailed what makes it not a “fun hang” for me. If any of us were hanging out with a friend who said such spectacularly stupid stuff with incredible confidence we would all bust their balls. Shit, Simmons himself does this.

But because he’s a pretty sensitive guy and he signs the checks of pretty much every guest he has now, we get a lot of hemming and hawing or as you described it “gentle push back”.

And even that “gentle push back” normally leads to Simmons getting in a huff and going “Am I not allowed to think that?!?!”
These guests have helped get him into the 100s (I think?) of millions of dollars. I think he genuinely likes these people, knows they are good at it and is appreciative of their work.
 

Leather

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I think you nailed what makes it not a “fun hang” for me. If any of us were hanging out with a friend who said such spectacularly stupid stuff with incredible confidence we would all bust their balls. Shit, Simmons himself does this.

But because he’s a pretty sensitive guy and he signs the checks of pretty much every guest he has now, we get a lot of hemming and hawing or as you described it “gentle push back”.

And even that “gentle push back” normally leads to Simmons getting in a huff and going “Am I not allowed to think that?!?!”
I don't think that's entirely fair.

On The Rewatchables, he clearly sees himself as the moderator who's job it is to make the discussion more accessible/casual when his guests, who are usually Sean Fennessey and Chris Ryan, start to get too into the weeds about "filmmaking." He knows he doesn't know as much as those guys do, and he doesn't care to. He's fine being the voice of the lowest-common-denominator because he knows his guests will talk about themes, film history, shot framing, historical significance, etc...His job is to make sure it stays grounded and loose. And to his credit, I think he sometimes (not always) says shit because he knows it will tweak SF and/or CR and make for some enlivened discussion, precisely because the dynamic of friends busting balls is at the center of his aesthetic. He's not a moron, even if he sometimes says moronic things or goes off half-cocked. And I've never gotten the impression he's ever actually been chuffed by anything his guests say.

I think the closest analogue is probably Adam Sandler. Sandler basically plays the same guy in every movie (with some exceptions) which is a version of "Adam Sandler." He's been doing it for so long that I think people assume he's really like that all the time, and while I'm sure he is to a certain extent, I'm also certain that Adam Sandler in a business meeting, or Adam Sandler at home with his wife, is not the same guy that you see on screen. He knows that in most of his movies, people expect the Adam Sandler 'tude, the Adam Sandler comebacks, the Adam Sandler shtick. Likewise, I'm pretty sure Simmons is deliberately playing his "Bill Simmons Sportsguy" role, at least to a certain extent, on these podcasts. It's easy, he has fun, and it's what his fans have come to expect.
 
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Shelterdog

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I don't think that's entirely fair.

On The Rewatchables, he clearly sees himself as the moderator who's job it is to make the discussion more accessible/casual when his guests, who are usually Sean Fennessey and Chris Ryan, start to get too into the weeds about "filmmaking." He knows he doesn't know as much as those guys do, and he doesn't care to. He's fine being the voice of the lowest-common-denominator because he knows his guests will talk about themes, film history, shot framing, historical significance, etc...His job is to make sure it stays grounded and loose. And to his credit, I think he sometimes (not always) says shit because he knows it will tweak SF and/or CR and make for some enlivened discussion, precisely because the dynamic of friends busting balls is at the center of his aesthetic. He's not a moron, even if he sometimes says moronic things or goes off half-cocked.

I think the closest analogue is probably Adam Sandler. Sandler basically plays the same guy in every movie (with some exceptions) which is a version of "Adam Sandler." He's been doing it for so long that I think people assume he's really like that all the time, and while I'm sure he is to a certain extent, I'm also certain that Adam Sandler in a business meeting, or Adam Sandler at home with his wife, is not the same guy that you see on screen. He knows that in most of his movies, people expect the Adam Sandler 'tude, the Adam Sandler comebacks, the Adam Sandler shtick. Likewise, I'm pretty sure Simmons is deliberately playing his "Bill Simmons Sportsguy" role, at least to a certain extent, on these podcasts. It's easy, he has fun, and it's what his fans have come to expect.
I think that's all true. I think it's also true that he likes his guys, and it's also true that they are pretty clearly deferential of him which helps it have a kind of fun tone. (By contrast Chris Sean and Greenwald will ream each other's bad takes when not with BIll and for me that's a better discussion but "Bill that's dumb" for the 20th time would be boring).

EDIT: Plus _we_ can have fun beating on his dumb takes here!
 
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Kliq

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Chris Ryan had an excellent column today on tonight's Nets v Sixers game. It's strange how little I see old-fashioned columns like that on sites like The Ringer.
 

Spelunker

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I don't think that's entirely fair.

On The Rewatchables, he clearly sees himself as the moderator who's job it is to make the discussion more accessible/casual when his guests, who are usually Sean Fennessey and Chris Ryan, start to get too into the weeds about "filmmaking." He knows he doesn't know as much as those guys do, and he doesn't care to. He's fine being the voice of the lowest-common-denominator because he knows his guests will talk about themes, film history, shot framing, historical significance, etc...His job is to make sure it stays grounded and loose. And to his credit, I think he sometimes (not always) says shit because he knows it will tweak SF and/or CR and make for some enlivened discussion, precisely because the dynamic of friends busting balls is at the center of his aesthetic. He's not a moron, even if he sometimes says moronic things or goes off half-cocked. And I've never gotten the impression he's ever actually been chuffed by anything his guests say.

I think the closest analogue is probably Adam Sandler. Sandler basically plays the same guy in every movie (with some exceptions) which is a version of "Adam Sandler." He's been doing it for so long that I think people assume he's really like that all the time, and while I'm sure he is to a certain extent, I'm also certain that Adam Sandler in a business meeting, or Adam Sandler at home with his wife, is not the same guy that you see on screen. He knows that in most of his movies, people expect the Adam Sandler 'tude, the Adam Sandler comebacks, the Adam Sandler shtick. Likewise, I'm pretty sure Simmons is deliberately playing his "Bill Simmons Sportsguy" role, at least to a certain extent, on these podcasts. It's easy, he has fun, and it's what his fans have come to expect.
He's not really a great moderator because he doesn't really listen to and react to what other people say. No matter what, he follows his outline of points. There were a couple of good examples of that in the Batman one:

Chris (earlier): Yeah, they paid Jack like 90 million for this.
<couple minutes pass>
Bill: So they paid Jack 11 million. But really 6.
Chris: Yeah, but like, a lot more. You know, like I said earlier.
Bill: Yeah, so my research shows it was something like 90 million.
Chris: <blinks>

...

Sean: a long, and thought provoking point on the 70s, 80s, and 90s, and how the superhero movies of the time sync up with what's going on in society, and the dark vigilante nature of Batman is a really interesting mirror back on us and where we were at the end of the 80s.

<long pause>

Bill: "I remember being disappointed that Robin wasn't in it."