The truth about the Patriots' fumble rate

singaporesoxfan

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This is related to Ballghazi, but since the numbers on the Pats' supposedly nefariously low fumble rate have been quoted like some sort of gospel on ESPN and other publications, I thought I'd start a new thread on the topic. I wrote an article to take an in-depth look at what the analysis that's going around really means:
 
http://soshcentral.com/football-science/football-statistics/2015/01/27/fumbling-data-truth-patriots-fumble-rate/
 
 
 
In data analysis, the result you get is only as good as the data you put into the analysis. And the data Sharp uses is, to put it finely, a hot mess. Most crucially, Sharp counted fumbles on special teams plays such as punt returns and kickoff returns in his data.  
 
 
In short: the purported vast difference between the fumble rates of players while they are on the Patriots and after they leave is due to... Brandon Tate running back kickoffs for the Bengals and dropping them.
 

EricFeczko

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Nice post about Sharp's data regarding individual players. There are other problems with Sharp's analysis:

1) Cherry picking data: when sharp (and others) examined plays per fumble between different teams, they intentionally threw out indoor teams because "indoor teams fumble less". The problem is that the colts and falcons are as much of an outlier in maintaing ball security as the patriots, relative to other indoor/outdoor teams.
 
2) Sharp portrayed a lot of data using fumbles lost instead of total fumbles, which is atrocious. Fumbles lost is a product of a lot of random factors, whereas total fumbles reflects ball security. I would hate for more announcers/reporters/etc. to continue to use the fumbles lost, when its not a stable/predictive statistic.
 
 
Although I agree on whether to remove special teams plays here, it really depends on what question you are asking. If you are focused on deflate-gate and asking whether the pats had unsual security with their balls, then your approach makes sense. If you are asking whether the patriots have amazing ball security, that may be a function of good coaching and personnell decisions, then one should absolutely include the special teams plays.
 

8slim

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Great stuff.

Wasn't the thrust of the original analysis, though, that the Pats themselves fumbled much, much less than the league as a whole over the past 7 seasons? Was the data used in that analysis flawed as well?
 

singaporesoxfan

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EricFeczko said:
Although I agree on whether to remove special teams plays here, it really depends on what question you are asking. If you are focused on deflate-gate and asking whether the pats had unsual security with their balls, then your approach makes sense. If you are asking whether the patriots have amazing ball security, that may be a function of good coaching and personnell decisions, then one should absolutely include the special teams plays.
Sure, but even if you want the latter, you still should take out the special team plays and analyze them separately. A great fumble rate on STs might be a middling fumble rate on ordinary plays from scrimmage just because the nature of the plays are very different, and I think combining fumble rates together can muddle the data.
 

singaporesoxfan

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8slim said:
Great stuff.

Wasn't the thrust of the original analysis, though, that the Pats themselves fumbled much, much less than the league as a whole over the past 7 seasons? Was the data used in that analysis flawed as well?
I'm pretty sure it was. I see he now has uploaded an Excel spreadsheet with his data so I'll analyze it further.
 

Rosey Ruzicka

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I am honestly surprised at the number of reputable news sites publishing articles that share NDT results as facts and note that other "Boston area" professors disagree.  This is so easily check-able with a 10 minute follow up with any of the professors that could point out NDTs mistake (or by, this is crazy, taking a ball outside and seeing what happens to the pressure).  A ton of people are hinging all their accusations on this saying "science doesn't lie", if he sends out a correction will be awesome to watch the massive wave of backpedaling.
 
 

AB in DC

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Yall should send this to Josh Levin (Sports Nut) at Slate.  Slate has been reprinting the Sharp analysis uncritically on their website.
 

Devizier

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Rosey Ruzicka said:
I am honestly surprised at the number of reputable news sites publishing articles that share NDT results as facts and note that other "Boston area" professors disagree.  This is so easily check-able with a 10 minute follow up with any of the professors that could point out NDTs mistake (or by, this is crazy, taking a ball outside and seeing what happens to the pressure).  A ton of people are hinging all their accusations on this saying "science doesn't lie", if he sends out a correction will be awesome to watch the massive wave of backpedaling.
 
 
Seriously; at this point, you'd think his good buddy Seth MacFarlane would have at least set the record straight with him.
 

8slim

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singaporesoxfan said:
I'm pretty sure it was. I see he now has uploaded an Excel spreadsheet with his data so I'll analyze it further.
 
Cool.  I'm certainly not demanding anyone do more work!  Just that when I saw that piece circulated a few days ago it was the portions about how New England's five-year fumble/play rate was historically good (first when the dope used fumbles lost data, which was idiotic) and then the analysis he did correcting for that unforgivable mistake that showed how the Pats were better than all but "dome teams".  So a piece refuting the data on former Pats playing on other teams isn't really hitting back at the analysis that got the most traction originally, IMHO.
 

triniSox

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8slim said:
Cool.  I'm certainly not demanding anyone do more work!  Just that when I saw that piece circulated a few days ago it was the portions about how New England's five-year fumble/play rate was historically good (first when the dope used fumbles lost data, which was idiotic) and then the analysis he did correcting for that unforgivable mistake that showed how the Pats were better than all but "dome teams".  So a piece refuting the data on former Pats playing on other teams isn't really hitting back at the analysis that got the most traction originally, IMHO.
I tweeted up a storm about the original article. My thoughts:
 
  1. Article is light on actual stats. No attempt made to prove fumbles per play stat follows a Normal distribution.
  2. Atlanta is a bigger outlier compared to other dome teams (higher % above average plays per fumble). Colts also outlier.
  3. Imagine last graph being drawn for dome teams vs average. Atlanta, Colts "way off the charts too"
  4. "0.0000616 probability" incorrect even with assuming normal distribution. Also author does not show his work here.
  5. 5 year sample size possibly too small to draw conclusions. We're talking about around ~16 fumbles a year
  6. Article while has lots of good work, is sensationalist in claims and conclusions to fit a narrative which detracts from quality
 

Harry Hooper

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Beyond the limited sample size, isn't there good reason not to assume a normal distribution? Teams don't prepare and operate the same way. There are likely clusters {falling along coaching tree lines?} resulting from the specific drills and time spent on them in practice, criteria used to evaluate talent's strengths and weaknesses, and so forth. 
 

Jed Zeppelin

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There are also countless instances of players fumbling, only for replay to discover it happened a split second after a knee or elbow hit the ground. Vereen did it two weeks ago. It happens all the time, and is for all intents and purposes no different than actual fumbles. Just another reason I find this attempt at using raw fumble data extremely unconvincing.
 

singaporesoxfan

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8slim said:
 
Cool.  I'm certainly not demanding anyone do more work!  Just that when I saw that piece circulated a few days ago it was the portions about how New England's five-year fumble/play rate was historically good (first when the dope used fumbles lost data, which was idiotic) and then the analysis he did correcting for that unforgivable mistake that showed how the Pats were better than all but "dome teams".  So a piece refuting the data on former Pats playing on other teams isn't really hitting back at the analysis that got the most traction originally, IMHO.
 
That's true. I worked with the individual player comparison data because it was feasible to actually go into the game logs for individual players and extract out ST/postseason fumbles. The data that Sharp has now uploaded shows that the Patriots committed 119 fumbles from 2007-2014. There's no good source of data that breaks down each team's fumbles into ST vs offensive fumbles and the rare defensive fumble (if that data exists, could someone please point that out to me?) so I can't say whether he's accurate there, but I would bet he's not. 
 

singaporesoxfan

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ColoradoJack said:
I wonder what it would look like without BenJarvis Green-Ellis. Isn't he the true outlier here?
 
Sorry if this sounds stupid.
 
Not a stupid question. It's a good illustration of how sensitive fumble data is to small changes. If you take out the Lawfirm, Pats players actually fumble at a lower rate after leaving NE than before (105 touches/fumble in NE, 110 touches/fumble after).
 

mt8thsw9th

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Buried in the other thread, a user posted a bit about how if you included playoff games in the totals, the Patriots are not an outlier in plays/fumble.
 

EricFeczko

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singaporesoxfan said:
Sure, but even if you want the latter, you still should take out the special team plays and analyze them separately. A great fumble rate on STs might be a middling fumble rate on ordinary plays from scrimmage just because the nature of the plays are very different, and I think combining fumble rates together can muddle the data.
That's a good point, but if you are using fumble rate as a potential metric of coaching ability, its a bit odd.
 
It might be better to normalize the fumble rates for both types of plays separately (e.g. via percentiles or z-transformed values), and then combine the normed data.
 

MarcSullivaFan

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8slim said:
 
Cool.  I'm certainly not demanding anyone do more work!  Just that when I saw that piece circulated a few days ago it was the portions about how New England's five-year fumble/play rate was historically good (first when the dope used fumbles lost data, which was idiotic) and then the analysis he did correcting for that unforgivable mistake that showed how the Pats were better than all but "dome teams".  So a piece refuting the data on former Pats playing on other teams isn't really hitting back at the analysis that got the most traction originally, IMHO.
This is a good point, but debunking the "Pats players on other teams" pokes a giant hole (no pun intended) in the deflated-ball-as-cause premise. If they have the same (or substantially) similar fumble rate elsewhere, it ain't the balls.
 

dcmissle

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I knew Ridley going down would bite us in the ass.

You want to sum up the entire episode that has spawned this and the mother of all threads?

War on excellence. It is that simple. It explains much since 2007. Relative mediocrities dearly clinging to $5MM/yr jobs in the face of impatient owners provides lots of motivation.
 

singaporesoxfan

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I did some quick numbers. The Sharp football analysis has the Pats as fumbling 119 times between 2007-2014. This is consistent with adding the total number of fumbles by each Patriot in those seasons, as given on Pro-Football-Reference.

The problem thus with his wider study is the exact same one. PFR data includes postseason and ST fumbles (this is clear if you look at the 2011 season, where they have Welker with 2 fumbles and Slater with 1) in fumble numbers. So all his data on touches/fumble is pretty much useless.
 

AlNipper49

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Thanks to everyone for posting links and retweeting this. Huge surge in traffic for the SoSHCentral guys, a testament to the hundreds of hours a week going into the site.

If you haven't already done so, a retweet, reddit upvote or a Facebook like would be really appreciated
 

Reverend

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Check out the link on the "harsh critiques." ;)
 
Like Nip said, this has been huge. It looks like SingaporeSoxFan opened the breach and now the national media is piling on--basically doing what they should have done in the first place. This has been linked to in pieces, tweets, and comments ranging from a NYTimes journalist to Deadspin to Slate and MMQB.
 
We're part of keeping these guys honest now--we always thought there were some good insights kicking around BbtLs, yeah? Well, turns out it's true.
 
So if you see anything that's not right and think you can address it, let us know and get in the game!
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyrx2QlCL34
 

singaporesoxfan

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EricFeczko said:
That's a good point, but if you are using fumble rate as a potential metric of coaching ability, its a bit odd.
 
It might be better to normalize the fumble rates for both types of plays separately (e.g. via percentiles or z-transformed values), and then combine the normed data.
That's a good point but that also assumes coaching would impact ball security in both plays from scrimmage and ST plays evenly. Chuck Z would know more than I do but it seems to me that you can make certain coaching decisions on ball security on ST that you can't on other plays. Specifically you can tell players to avoid returning kickoff and punts, which greatly reduces chances of muffs (which are counted as fumbles in the stats).
 

Jnai

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RT'd this. Of all the dumb media tropes to happen as a result of #Deflategate, this might be the dumbest.
 

kieckeredinthehead

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Maybe a better test would be to compare Pats fumbles on offense vs. STs to other teams on offense vs. STs. That might be the best way to directly confront the under inflated ball theory because special teams get the untreated balls.
 

MarcSullivaFan

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kieckeredinthehead said:
Maybe a better test would be to compare Pats fumbles on offense vs. STs to other teams on offense vs. STs. That might be the best way to directly confront the under inflated ball theory because special teams get the untreated balls.
They're not just untreated [foot]balls--they're the other team's untreated [foot]balls.  
 

speedracer

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MarcSullivaFan said:
Brian Burke is not a fan of the Deadspin article, thinks that Sharp's numbers speak for themselves.  I'm confused.
 
Dammit I'm having problems embedding.
 
https://twitter.com/Adv_NFL_Stats
Didn't he harp on the notion that BB's W-L record outpacing his expected wins model consistently was evidence of long-term cheating? Burke is a devoted Ravens fan and I think he has a blind spot with respect to NE.
 

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Oh, does anyone know how the Packers compare on this?  If the concept that deflated balls affect fumble rates is accurate, they should have serious yips in this regard.
 

EricFeczko

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SumnerH said:
Oh, does anyone know how the Packers compare on this?  If the concept that deflated balls affect fumble rates is accurate, they should have serious yips in this regard.
They are in the middle of the pack, so probably not related to inflation/deflation.
 
 
MarcSullivaFan said:
 
Brian Burke is not a fan of the Deadspin article, thinks that Sharp's numbers speak for themselves.  I'm confused.
 
Dammit I'm having problems embedding.
 
https://twitter.com/Adv_NFL_Stats
 
 
That was a stupid comment by Brian, but I'm not sure where Burke was critical of the Deadspin piece, though he did comment on the Sharp analysis. Of course he also corrected much of Sharp's analysis by focusing only on offensive plays and measured it to reduce outlier exaggeration. I'm not sure how you can argue against the fact that the patriots have one of the lowest fumble rates over the past 5 years.
 
Also not sure where you get that he thinks this is a deflation issue, from his own article:
 
 
I'm not sticking my neck out here and saying this is evidence of anything. It's fair to say that Belichick emphasizes ball security emphatically, and is quick to bench players who drop the ball. Everyone will have their own opinion anyway. I'll just say, either way, it's worth looking at. If it's a result of an unfair advantage, that's interesting. If it's the result of good coaching, that's just as interesting.
He does the same stupid thing with indoors vs. outdoors (even though there doesn't appear to be much of a difference between the two), thereby ignoring that there are three outliers in the league along the same tier.
 
 

EricFeczko

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DrewDawg said:
 
 
How about right here:
 

Brian Burke @Adv_NFL_Stats · 1h1 hour ago


To be clear, the Regressing article is problematic. Bad numbers, bad model, bad assumptions, bad logic.

 
Missed that. I'm not very good reading twitter pages.
That's bizarre, given that many of the critiques in the deadspin article are echoed in Brian's own article (e.g. problems with using plays per fumble, offensive plays vs. special teams, the fact that most fumbles come from strip sacks).
 
EDIT: Screw this assumed distribution nonsense, I'm going bootstrapping. Be back later.
 

DJnVa

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Harry Hooper said:
 
Send him the quotation from the BC physics professor as well.
 
He said he'd check it out, but if it says weather can change PSI he'd just laugh. That's willful ignorance, so I'm done with him. 
 

singaporesoxfan

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I like that Burke's article looks only at offensive fumbles, and doesn't leap to the OMG! PATS MUST HAVE DEFLATED conclusion of Sharp's analysis. But I think Burke's analysis overly ignores strip sacks as a factor in the fumble data in favor of a ball-security explanation. Sacks result in fumbles at a far higher rate than other types of plays. But giving up sacks is a function of QB time-to-release as well as quality of offensive line. Looking at his rankings of teams by "plays per fumble", you can see that the top few have QBs that have quick releases and/or are good at avoiding sacks (Ryan, Brees, Brady), and the bottom few have slow-release QBs (Washington, Philly, Arizona).
 
I think any good analysis really does need to break out different kinds of fumbles: sack-fumbles, rushing fumbles, receiving fumbles, and then ST fumbles. The problem then is that you might have too little data to tell anything from a statistic like fumbles.
 

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https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/560299943756566528
 

EricFeczko

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So, let's do a thought experiment here:

Let's assume (wrongly, I know, this is a put-up/shut-up argument here) that Sharp's numbers are accurate from here:

 
The problem with merely saying the Patriots are outliers, is that we don't know what the underlying distribution of data should be. We can't just take the standard deviation here because the distribution is clearly non-normal (for several reasons, one of which most stats people ignore: normal distributions cannot extend towards positive or negative infinity, which is not the case for plays per fumble, which can extend towards positive infinity) and not bell-curve shaped. We also can't really use percentiles because we don't have a large sample size. Below is a visual distribution of the data to hammer this point home:
 
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:780]

Although most people prefer to assume a distribution, an alternative is to construct a theoretical distribution using bootstrapping. Bootstrapping is a simulation technique that uses the empirical data to simulate a series of theoretical data sets from the same range. The procedure is fairly simple: per bootstrap one samples with replacement from the dataset (e.g. the same data can be selected twice) and calculates the metric of interest. In this case, I will be taking the average of fumbles lost per offensive play (which, again, makes no sense when you include ST plays, but save it for now, you'll see why). I ran 10,000 bootstraps here.
 
We can inspect the constructed distribution of values to see whether the original distribution matches our bootstrapped distribution. Below is the distribution of bootstrapped data.
 
 
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:781]
 
I hope one can already see the large problem here, but I'll continue.
 
The bias of the bootstrap distribution is quite small. This is calculated by measuring the difference between the center of the distributions (e.g. by using the mean as the centers), which gives us a difference of 0.0017 (if using the mean of the nfl distribution), or 5.0625 (if using the median instead). Since the bootstrap is somewhat-normally distributed, we can construct a confidence intervals somewhat easily, by multiplying the standard error of the bootstrap by a t score reflecting the confidence interval of choice. For 95 percent confidence intervals, the range is between 98.8 and 111.3. 23 of the NFL teams over the past five years exceed these intervals, and therefore should be defined as outliers.
 
One of the problems here is that using plays per fumble relies on a distribution that does not reflect the real range of values; no team will ever have 0 offensive plays but 0 fumbles is possible. No value exists if there are 0 fumbles, making plays per fumble a phenomenally stupid metric. We can simply invert the metric to get something more sensible. Once we do so we get a distribution that looks like this:

 
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:782]
 
As before we can construct a bootstrap distribution and examine the bootstrap with respect to the observed values.

 
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:783]

Again, we see that the range of the bootstrap values is far narrower than the range of observed fumble rates. In fact, we find the same number of outliers..
 
A lot of this has to do with the skewness in the data itself. One can tilt the bootstrap to better account for the skew observed, but that might create outliers in the other direction and I'm tired.
 
The more serious problem is that there are probably multiple distributions underlying the fumbles lost metric (as pointed out by the deadspin article and SOSH); combining them all together creates a metric that is really difficult to interpret.
 
In the end, I'm not sure sharp can claim the pats are an outlier, based on his data, without also claiming the same about nearly every team in the league.
 

EricFeczko

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singaporesoxfan said:
I like that Burke's article looks only at offensive fumbles, and doesn't leap to the OMG! PATS MUST HAVE DEFLATED conclusion of Sharp's analysis. But I think Burke's analysis overly ignores strip sacks as a factor in the fumble data in favor of a ball-security explanation. Sacks result in fumbles at a far higher rate than other types of plays. But giving up sacks is a function of QB time-to-release as well as quality of offensive line. Looking at his rankings of teams by "plays per fumble", you can see that the top few have QBs that have quick releases and/or are good at avoiding sacks (Ryan, Brees, Brady), and the bottom few have slow-release QBs (Washington, Philly, Arizona).
 
I think any good analysis really does need to break out different kinds of fumbles: sack-fumbles, rushing fumbles, receiving fumbles, and then ST fumbles. The problem then is that you might have too little data to tell anything from a statistic like fumbles.
Yup. This is why fumbles are not a good statistic for measuring anything, really.
 
I disagree with your inference regarding Brian Burke's intention, he's posted previously that fumbles are twice as likely to occur on a pass play than a run play, and 56 percent of pass play fumbles are due to sacks.
 
Plus he wrote this in the article:
 
 
You'd expect teams with good QBs and good offenses to have fewer strip-sacks.
 

singaporesoxfan

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Great work Eric on the bootstrapping.

I know Burke is not unaware of the role that strip sacks play, as shown in his comment in the article and in his other work. Didn't mean to imply that he was. I just think for this particular article he mentioned the impact of strip sacks and then seemed to discount it or at least didn't discuss it as much as I felt he should have.
 

EricFeczko

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singaporesoxfan said:
Great work Eric on the bootstrapping.

I know Burke is not unaware of the role that strip sacks play, as shown in his comment in the article and in his other work. Didn't mean to infer that he was. I just think for this particular article he mentioned the impact of strip sacks and then seemed to discount it or at least didn't discuss it as much as I felt he should have.
You're right about that, and his tone definitely smacks of some implicit bias; I just don't think its intentional on his part.
I'm speculating though, so I could be wrong.
 
Anyways, I've got one more post to make about why the bootstraps didn't work on this type of data.
 

Jettisoned

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Why is it a foregone conclusion that lower ball pressure = fewer fumbles?  Isn't it possible that a less rigid object is actually easier to dislodge from a person's grip than a more rigid one?
 
 

EricFeczko

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One of the biggest problems in analyzing distributions of data is whether to average across samples, or use every sample as a case.

Both Brian and Sharp focused on averaged data across multiple years. While averages can smooth out problems with distributions (especially if the distributions are multiple, such as an ex-gaussian distribution), it can also reduce the ability to examine the actual range of values.
 
Fortunately, Brian Burke provided the five year data for his analysis individually. Below is the distribution of offensive fumbles lost per play treating each season as an independent sample.

 
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:785]
 
 
All of a sudden, we have a somewhat normal distribution with low positive skew! We can check for outliers simply by using the 2*standard deviation to provide 95% confidence intervals. These intervals are 0.0093 and 0.0321. In this case, we see two things: 1) none of the average values are, in fact, statistical outliers 2) only three outlier seasons are observed (NO in 2011, ATL in 2012, and MIN in 2014), which reflects approximately 5 percent of all cases.

For grins, I also bootstrapped the data:

 
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:784]
 
The bootstrap here shows a bit of bias (0.0022, which is pretty large here), so we probably shouldn't estimate confidence intervals without adjusting for it. Again, a tilting method or BC intervals is probably preferable here, and I'm too lazy to do that. Furthermore, its probably not necessary given the sampling distribution above.

I think the lesson to learn here is to not average data unless you have a good reason to do so. When one examines data distributions, one has greater power when looking at individual samples, and that power is lost when collapsing across the samples (e.g. via a 5 year mean). In our case, when one examines the data appropriately, the patriots seasons do not turn out to be statistical outliers at all (though they are very good).
 

Sea Dog

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Jettisoned said:
Why is it a foregone conclusion that lower ball pressure = fewer fumbles?  Isn't it possible that a less rigid object is actually easier to dislodge from a person's grip than a more rigid one?
 
 
Probably for the same reason it's easier to grip and hold onto a baseball as opposed to a basketball. The smaller, the better you can control it. And if the ball is smaller, I'm guessing the argument would be it's tougher for opponents to swipe at the ball, put a helmet on the ball, and generally dislodge the ball.
 

Jettisoned

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There's no way a 2 psi drop is going to reduce the volume enough to have any effect on fumbles.  I thought the argument was the small amount of extra give makes gripping the ball easier or something.
 

Eddie Jurak

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How do Patriots ST fumbles compare to other teams' ST fumbles?  If Pats fumble less on ST, it could not be due to ball tampering.