The Unikornet

luckiestman

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I view Kornet as a guy who can eat innings, nothing more nothing less. Happy when he strikes out the side but just being a non-embarrassment is more than enough. Glad he had a great game.
 

Fishy1

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I view Kornet as a guy who can eat innings, nothing more nothing less. Happy when he strikes out the side but just being a non-embarrassment is more than enough. Glad he had a great game.
Well, we can at least agree that he probably could have done better than some of the Sox pitchers last year
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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2. and blocked a Trae Young 3 attempt.
I'm not sure who was more surprised that he got a piece of that Young 3P - me, Green Kornet, or Young. Shades of Time Lord!
He's fine for where he's supposed to be, but the next contested rebound he gets will be among his first.
I'll also note that there was at least one instance where Mark Jones mentioned that Kornet got a "tough rebound" in traffic. I think he's better than we think but because of Cs switching scheme, he's often out of position.
 

joe dokes

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I'm not sure who was more surprised that he got a piece of that Young 3P - me, Green Kornet, or Young. Shades of Time Lord!

I'll also note that there was at least one instance where Mark Jones mentioned that Kornet got a "tough rebound" in traffic. I think he's better than we think but because of Cs switching scheme, he's often out of position.
Youre right about switching and I certainly could have missed the one you're referring to. (That's why I inserted the lawyer's hedge of "among the first") ;) The one or two that I remember had the Hawk behind him getting the ball.
 

CreightonGubanich

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I think you might be underestimating Poetl. In less than 29 minutes a game he's averaging 13.4 points, 10.1 rebounds, 3.7 assists and 1.2 blocks and shooting 66 percent from the floor. He's poor from the line, which is worrisome, but he's a damn good center.
That's fair. Poetl's been really good at both ends of the floor, especially the last two seasons. I guess I'm a bit skeptical of his offensive fit with this particular team, given that he's not a huge lob threat and definitely not a shooter. The free throw issues concern me; he's sub-50% this year and last, which could render him unplayable at the end of games.

But, he's a really good, versatile defender who can protect the rim and is surprisingly effective switching onto guys on the perimeter. I guess it depends on price; I think two firsts is too much, but if it's Gallo/PP/1st, that probably makes sense.


What else would we use our future trade assets for to improve this team? If the price is Gallo and a future 1st & 2nd it’s a no-brainer unless we feel there is a better fit on the expiring market out there. With TL’s health I’m not sure that there would be. Of course if it’s Gallo and picks this thread will be repetitive every day until Dec 15th when Gallo is eligible to be traded.
Richaun Holmes has fallen out of the rotation in Sacramento and is at least mildly intriguing depend on the asking price. I wouldn't include a first for him. I'd check with Danny Ainge on the asking price for Lauri Markkanen as well. The other option is to combine those picks with the Horford contract to get a big in a different price bracket. John Collins and Myles Turner would both be options there.
 

lovegtm

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That's fair. Poetl's been really good at both ends of the floor, especially the last two seasons. I guess I'm a bit skeptical of his offensive fit with this particular team, given that he's not a huge lob threat and definitely not a shooter. The free throw issues concern me; he's sub-50% this year and last, which could render him unplayable at the end of games.

But, he's a really good, versatile defender who can protect the rim and is surprisingly effective switching onto guys on the perimeter. I guess it depends on price; I think two firsts is too much, but if it's Gallo/PP/1st, that probably makes sense.




Richaun Holmes has fallen out of the rotation in Sacramento and is at least mildly intriguing depend on the asking price. I wouldn't include a first for him. I'd check with Danny Ainge on the asking price for Lauri Markkanen as well. The other option is to combine those picks with the Horford contract to get a big in a different price bracket. John Collins and Myles Turner would both be options there.
Was anyone else watching Collins last night and happy we have Grant instead?

I think he's better than he looks on the Hawks, but I don't get excited by him.
 

Fishy1

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Was anyone else watching Collins last night and happy we have Grant instead?

I think he's better than he looks on the Hawks, but I don't get excited by him.
He seems to disappear for very long stretches. I think he's better than Grant, but he's down to 13 points a game, and is turning the ball over more than he's assisting early in the season. And they're paying him very nearly Jaylen Brown money.

I'd take him at 15 million a year, but at ~25 million, the opportunity cost becomes very real.
 

CreightonGubanich

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Was anyone else watching Collins last night and happy we have Grant instead?

I think he's better than he looks on the Hawks, but I don't get excited by him.
Yeah, I'm not super high on Collins and that contract is....whoa. But I also think he's in a tough spot in Atlanta, where his usage has dropped tremendously. He's a good shooter, solid rebounder, and a versatile defender if not a particularly great one. I think there's some upside there.

It's a moot point, as I really don't think Brad will trade Horford this season, nor should he. I was really just pointing out that there's options to upgrade the roster beyond Jakob Poetl.

Edit: the guy I really wish could be the successor to Al Horford is Wendell Carter. But, even with the big man logjam/scrap pile in Orlando, and their inept roster management, they're not going to part with him after what they gave up to get him.
 
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InstaFace

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In addition, the list of known realistic targets is really thin. Poetl has been mentioned but again that player is likely to have a lot of interest.
I don't think the C's should really be in a rush to replace Kornet, nevermind send off a first-rounder for Poetl
I'd rather keep the trade assets ready for a big with more upside than Jakob Poetl.
I think you might be underestimating Poetl. In less than 29 minutes a game he's averaging 13.4 points, 10.1 rebounds, 3.7 assists and 1.2 blocks and shooting 66 percent from the floor. He's poor from the line, which is worrisome, but he's a damn good center.
Lotta people here got a lot of opinions about Jakob Poeltl (Pöltl), despite not being able to spell his name.

Fire Bill Bellicheck!

(I kid because I love)
 

Jed Zeppelin

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It felt like he tipped a few rebounds to teammates, also.
This is where the great skill of Being Really Tall comes in handy. Grant, for example, is also not a great rebounder and only averages something like 6 boards per/36. The difference is Grant is often in decent enough position but guys just jump and grab the ball over him if he hasn't timed his leap perfectly. Kornet's size allows him to at least be in the mix most of the time, keep an extra few balls alive, and tip some others to teammates.
 

InstaFace

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My more substantive contribution is that I can't hear his name without recalling a pizza place near my college called Koronets, which has endured for decades by selling college students decent-but-not-great pizza slices which are the size of yield signs. Many 18yo freshmen found themselves unable to eat two in a sitting, that's how big.



So Luke Koronet for me will always be the guy who gets the job done cheaply and adequately, whose main claim to fame is that he is excessively large.
 

DavidTai

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I don't even think we -need- Poeltl as much as we need Timelord, and bumping Kornet down a slot. I mean, I guess you could trade Kornet in a deal for Poeltl to get better depth, but... I don't see Poeltl as the best use of resources unless it's extremely cheap.

I think acquiring a wing who could play small ball 5 would be a better use of resources, just to prevent Tatum and Brown from wearing down as well as adding some depth behind Horford/Williams. At the least, someone more versatile than Poeltl so that you could move players around in different lineups.

I keep hoping for this, but someone like Harrison Barnes or Robert Covington.

But back to Kornet - I think there's room for improvement. He looks like a giraffe about to be brought down by a pride of lions out there, but he somehow manages to keep his head up high, and the 'rim-runner' thing is a new thing that I want to see more of. Defensively, he seems to be improving in unexpected ways. (I did NOT expect a block of Young.) So I'm hesistant to acquire Poeltl when TimeLord might well bump Kornet down and we could add more versatility to lineups.
 

lovegtm

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Yeah, I'm not super high on Collins and that contract is....woah. But I also think he's in a tough spot in Atlanta, where his usage has dropped tremendously. He's a good shooter, solid rebounder, and a versatile defender if not a particularly great one. I think there's some upside there.

It's a moot point, as I really don't think Brad will trade Horford this season, nor should he. I was really just pointing out that there's options to upgrade the roster beyond Jakob Poetl.

Edit: the guy I really wish could be the successor to Al Horford is Wendell Carter. But, even with the big man logjam/scrap pile in Orlando, and their inept roster management, they're not going to part with him after what they gave up to get him.
Man, Carter would be really interesting. It's not exactly the case that Orlando gave up a lot to get him: they got 2 1sts in the Vucevic deal. Orlando could trade him and think of it as having gotten 3 1sts for Vooch, which is a great haul. The problem is more that he's on a great contract for 3.5 more years.

In terms of the high quality guy under contract for awhile that Stevens goes after, Carter matches it really well.
 

slamminsammya

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I've thought Kornet is a legit good defender since going back two years. His length is tremendous and makes up for his lack of quickness. That said, I'd much rather have Poeltl as TL insurance for the playoffs than Kornet.
 

Jimbodandy

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Was anyone else watching Collins last night and happy we have Grant instead?

I think he's better than he looks on the Hawks, but I don't get excited by him.
I always watch Collins and think about how good he should be. Change of scenery would probably help him, but I'd be concerned how much of it is motor.
 

chilidawg

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The UniKorn also had a really good block on one of Atlanta's wings where he stayed with him as he drove and then completely smothered the shot. That one was more impressive than the Young 3 imo.

His drop coverage was a problem a couple times, allowing Young easy mid range buckets, but the good certainly out weighed the bad.
 

bakahump

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I think two firsts is too much, but if it's Gallo/PP/1st, that probably makes sense.
I am probably Crazy....But isnt PP = 1st? I mean not early lottery.....but he seems like an "eh" 12 pick and a "YEAH!" 20 pick.

So in essence when someone Suggest this (and I am not just picking on you @CreightonGubanich ) they are saying "Yea 2 1sts and Gallo."
But then we turn around and balk at 2 Firsts and Gallo.

I am in the same camp as some others who Feel that Kornet is perfectly fine as a 3rd big and on about 66% of the nights "OK" as your backup big. He is going to get "out atheleted" every night on the floor. But he seems to be a smart player which matters alot. I could also seem him developing a top of the key 3 which would make him even more cromulent.
I would rather we try to turn some capital into another wing to help relieve pressure/wear off JB/JT/GW I just dont see the need for a "Next Level" big. Some combo of Al, pTL and Kornet will hold their own or win positionally 90% of PLAYOFF nights in the NBA. Philly and Milwaukee being probably the biggest exceptions. And yes while they are road blocks for us.....we win at pretty much every other position against those teams.
If there was a (forgive the pun) slam dunk Big that could be had that was some version of AL or pTL then sure. But I am not sure the combo of Contract/Talent/Availability that player currently exists. Poeausometmiesytl isnt that guy IMHO despite being a decent enough player.
 

InstaFace

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Yes! I loved that one.

Those B-R shorts are such high quality. They keep on trying to do it with european football ("The Champions") but it's just not nearly as funny.
 

lovegtm

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I am probably Crazy....But isnt PP = 1st? I mean not early lottery.....but he seems like an "eh" 12 pick and a "YEAH!" 20 pick.

So in essence when someone Suggest this (and I am not just picking on you @CreightonGubanich ) they are saying "Yea 2 1sts and Gallo."
But then we turn around and balk at 2 Firsts and Gallo.

I am in the same camp as some others who Feel that Kornet is perfectly fine as a 3rd big and on about 66% of the nights "OK" as your backup big. He is going to get "out atheleted" every night on the floor. But he seems to be a smart player which matters alot. I could also seem him developing a top of the key 3 which would make him even more cromulent.
I would rather we try to turn some capital into another wing to help relieve pressure/wear off JB/JT/GW I just dont see the need for a "Next Level" big. Some combo of Al, pTL and Kornet will hold their own or win positionally 90% of PLAYOFF nights in the NBA. Philly and Milwaukee being probably the biggest exceptions. And yes while they are road blocks for us.....we win at pretty much every other position against those teams.
If there was a (forgive the pun) slam dunk Big that could be had that was some version of AL or pTL then sure. But I am not sure the combo of Contract/Talent/Availability that player currently exists. Poeausometmiesytl isnt that guy IMHO despite being a decent enough player.
That isn't how firsts are valued. A #15 pick has a very low chance of producing an all-star, and a kinda low chance of producing a good starter.

PP has a low chance of being either, and so he is valued lower accordingly. This is before accounting for age and years of team control.
 

HomeRunBaker

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That isn't how firsts are valued. A #15 pick has a very low chance of producing an all-star, and a kinda low chance of producing a good starter.

PP has a low chance of being either, and so he is valued lower accordingly. This is before accounting for age and years of team control.
Yes. You also receive cost controlled years for the upside of a player that you select…..rather than one without upside who happens to be available. PP has close to nil value to a rebuilding team with the lone exception of putting a somewhat competitive product on the floor during a tank.
 

bakahump

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I think you guys are valuing PP from the Spurs perspective.....I am valuing him from the Celtics... as "just as if not more valuable as the 27 (or 30th) pick" we would be sending in lieu of PP.

So when we "Dont want to include 2 1sts" why would we rather include "a first and PP". Cost Control? The cost between Curren PP and a 1st is a rounding error.....and we know one can play in the NBA.

I would rather we send 2 1sts. And as you both point out....the Spurs would probably prefer that.
 

joe dokes

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I think you guys are valuing PP from the Spurs perspective.....I am valuing him from the Celtics... as "just as if not more valuable as the 27 (or 30th) pick" we would be sending in lieu of PP.

So when we "Dont want to include 2 1sts" why would we rather include "a first and PP". Cost Control? The cost between Curren PP and a 1st is a rounding error.....and we know one can play in the NBA.

I would rather we send 2 1sts. And as you both point out....the Spurs would probably prefer that.
I think this is the right way to look at it with *this* team. The NBA is different than MLB in that its pretty hard to build a championship team and simultaneously prepare for a future that avoids a 25-35 win season or two. I *think* Ainge was trying to thread that needle. I think Stevens has balanced it differently, and the players contributing here & now are considerably more valuable than 1st round picks a little ways down the road.
I hate to call it GFIN because to me, that implies a one-year window.
 

lovegtm

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I think you guys are valuing PP from the Spurs perspective.....I am valuing him from the Celtics... as "just as if not more valuable as the 27 (or 30th) pick" we would be sending in lieu of PP.

So when we "Dont want to include 2 1sts" why would we rather include "a first and PP". Cost Control? The cost between Curren PP and a 1st is a rounding error.....and we know one can play in the NBA.

I would rather we send 2 1sts. And as you both point out....the Spurs would probably prefer that.
No, the Celtics would not prefer it, because unused 1sts are fungible currency that you can use to get other players.

The Celtics got Brogdon for what will likely be a 25+ pick this year. They got DWhite for similar. They couldn't sniff either of those guys with PP as the offer.

It's not just about the player you get in this deal, but about the ones you need to get later too.
 

HomeRunBaker

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PP would also help with the salary matching that you'd need. Gallinari isn't enough on his own.
If it were only about salary we could send say Vonleh. PP is more valuable to the Celtics than a matching slot as other irrelevant players could fit into the slot to make the numbers work.
 

bakahump

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We are not talking about PP for a White type player.
We are talking about PP and ONE First. (and Gallo for Salary).
As Opposed to
2 1sts. (...and Gallo)

I think either of those Could get you a "White type". (Brogdon was obv a steal/salary cut/injury concern).

You all are likely right that most teams prefer 2 Firsts as opposed to PP and a First (and of Course Gallo in all these deals).
Because of the perceived value of a first.
In my thinking thats GOOD for the Celtics. Wanting a pick because he will be better then PP is Wish Casting to me. Sure you MIGHT get a better player.....but at picks 25-30 the odds of doing that is remote.
(There is also the time line you point out......a Pick might get better then PP in year 3-4-5 but PP is Better NOW.)

Part of my argument is "Nesmith". Would you rather have Pick 14 in Future Draft X? Or PP right now. But again we are not talking Pick 14.....we are talking (in all likelihood) 25-30.

Thats my point.....as a Celtic Fan.....I would Rather keep PP and ship out 2 1sts (again along with Gallo) for Someone of Value (what that is we can debate).

IOW TLDR........ PP is more valuable On the Court then the Avg 25-30 pick. So the Celts should be looking to keep him. Not trade him instead of a 1st.

Finally I understand that that 1st you keep instead.....MIGHT be valuable for something else later on. But as we say in the NBA you need to strike when you can. So Keeping PP this year (and next) AND getting something else of value for those 2 1sts (and Gallo) would set you up for this year and probably next.
Whereas keeping a 1st and shipping PP out.....makes you potentially weaker this year.....and does not guarantee you get anything of value (or equal to PP frankly) in the future.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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His drop coverage was a problem a couple times, allowing Young easy mid range buckets, but the good certainly out weighed the bad.
The Cs are playing a lot more drop coverage this year, which is interesting in itself. (I wonder if this will continue when TL comes back.)

That being said, it's entirely possible that UniKorn is dropping a tad bit too far.
 

Fishy1

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The Cs are playing a lot more drop coverage this year, which is interesting in itself. (I wonder if this will continue when TL comes back.)

That being said, it's entirely possible that UniKorn is dropping a tad bit too far.
I think it's by design, as he hasn't been yelled at and it's been very consistent. They would rather opposing guards and forwards take mid-rangers than get buckets at the rim. It makes a lot of sense, I think. Vonleh has really struggled with this, getting blown by both on the perimeter and inside the arc, which I think is part of why he's not playing so much anymore.
 

Jimbodandy

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We are not talking about PP for a White type player.
We are talking about PP and ONE First. (and Gallo for Salary).
As Opposed to
2 1sts. (...and Gallo)

I think either of those Could get you a "White type". (Brogdon was obv a steal/salary cut/injury concern).

You all are likely right that most teams prefer 2 Firsts as opposed to PP and a First (and of Course Gallo in all these deals).
Because of the perceived value of a first.
In my thinking thats GOOD for the Celtics. Wanting a pick because he will be better then PP is Wish Casting to me. Sure you MIGHT get a better player.....but at picks 25-30 the odds of doing that is remote.
(There is also the time line you point out......a Pick might get better then PP in year 3-4-5 but PP is Better NOW.)

Part of my argument is "Nesmith". Would you rather have Pick 14 in Future Draft X? Or PP right now. But again we are not talking Pick 14.....we are talking (in all likelihood) 25-30.

Thats my point.....as a Celtic Fan.....I would Rather keep PP and ship out 2 1sts (again along with Gallo) for Someone of Value (what that is we can debate).

IOW TLDR........ PP is more valuable On the Court then the Avg 25-30 pick. So the Celts should be looking to keep him. Not trade him instead of a 1st.

Finally I understand that that 1st you keep instead.....MIGHT be valuable for something else later on. But as we say in the NBA you need to strike when you can. So Keeping PP this year (and next) AND getting something else of value for those 2 1sts (and Gallo) would set you up for this year and probably next.
Whereas keeping a 1st and shipping PP out.....makes you potentially weaker this year.....and does not guarantee you get anything of value (or equal to PP frankly) in the future.
That's a fair POV, especially for a team that's in GFIN mode.

Problem is that having no firsts at all is a hindrance long-term. And while PP has more value to the 2022-2023 Celtics and probably to the 23-24 Celtics, he's largely a redundant player with the roster that we have. There are three ballhandlers ahead of him on the depth chart and one shootist. And of course the team is already heavy with guys who can shoot 3s, so he's really like fifth on the "shootist" depth chart. And outside of ballhandling and long-range sniping, he doesn't add value anywhere. With Brogdon's acquisition (following White's) and Hauser's ascension, Pritchard is now firmly out of the rotation. He's 10th in MPG, and that's with no TL.

It's absolutely nice to have depth at skills that matter on the bench, but it's also nice to have a pipeline of cost-controlled players.

Maybe some of this comes down to whether one thinks that TL ever returns and can reliably play any impactful minutes. If you're bullish on TL, then maybe concern over center depth isn't as front of mind. If you're really bearish on TL (I am), then fear of a Kornet planet is pretty front of mind.
 

the moops

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Wanting a pick because he will be better then PP is Wish Casting to me. Sure you MIGHT get a better player.....but at picks 25-30 the odds of doing that is remote.
(There is also the time line you point out......a Pick might get better then PP in year 3-4-5 but PP is Better NOW.)
I imagine most teams would want a 2025 or 2027 pick. And those teams are banking on the odds that the pick won't be in the 25-30 range
 

bakahump

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Fair. I also said I WOULD trade a pick. NOT PP. So I am Glad it has value.
I get why some disagree.

Not sure why posters keep thinking I am arguing for keeping the Picks. Just the Opposite. I want the player(s). In this case PP and whatever real NBA player the Picks can acquire.

To your point they can hope that the 2025 pick is higher then #25....but we are rapidly approaching "IF JT is on the team then it aint gonna be lower then mid 20s catagory." Sure injuries, or Brad could backhand Deuce. But Assuming something really weird doesnt happen 25 is about as worthless as 2023s pick. the '27 pick could be a little more valuable....or it could also be a 25-30 pick. I mean if Tatum decides to leave as FA and leaves money on the table (hard to believe)....we would have alot to spend in that offseason. If he for whatever reason demanded a Trade we would also have quite a haul of future picks to replenish and picks we trade now. Probably wouldnt make us a Championship team...but probably keeps us out of the lottery.

Assuming JT doesnt get hurt its hard to imagine a pick of ours before the '30s having much real value.
I will now go walk three times backwards under a upright Horseshoe while burning incense and chanting a lucky mantra.
 

benhogan

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My three favorite things introduced by this thread
1. the "shootist" depth chart makes complete sense and made me laugh
2. the thought of Brad backhanding Deuce costing us Tatum...some dark comedy there
3. The Uni(korn)bomber after 1 trey

Eight straight wins and all is swell in the Cellar
 

benhogan

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Not that it would ever happen, but if Collins was offered for Horford straight-up WWBD?

is it possible that Collins is in decline at 25? and Horford is gaining value at 36?
 

Koufax

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My three favorite things introduced by this thread
...
3. The Uni(korn)bomber after 1 trey

Eight straight wins and all is swell in the Cellar
Correction. He is 2 for 4 in that category. No longer a small sample. :)
 

benhogan

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I think acquiring a wing who could play small ball 5 would be a better use of resources, just to prevent Tatum and Brown from wearing down as well as adding some depth behind Horford/Williams. At the least, someone more versatile than Poeltl so that you could move players around in different lineups.I keep hoping for this, but someone like Harrison Barnes or Robert Covington.
1. The guy you want is Vanderbilt ($4.4M) or a PJ Washington ($5.8M)

2. They can't afford Barnes ($18.3M) and he cant play small ball 5
Covington isn't cheap ($24M/2yrs) and on the decline
 

lovegtm

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I'll take the over on that - it was his second three of the yesar with Boston and he is a career .326 shooter on 448 attempts.
It's crazy looking back at his first 2 years in the league: he put up over 8.5 3s per 36 mins (Tatum volume), and shot 36% on them.

And then it sort of disappeared.
 

kazuneko

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Another big game for Kornet. Cs turned it around in the second half during a long stretch that started when he entered and included two blocks and multiple intimidations by Kornet. He ended up +19 for the game and is now +44 for the season.
 

lexrageorge

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Another big game for Kornet. Cs turned it around in the second half during a long stretch that started when he entered and included two blocks and multiple intimidations by Kornet. He ended up +19 for the game and is now +44 for the season.
Yep. Sabonis was bullying the Celtics a bit during the Kings comeback, and it was good to have Kornet come in and change the tone of the interior game.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yep. Sabonis was bullying the Celtics a bit during the Kings comeback, and it was good to have Kornet come in and change the tone of the interior game.
Maybe not MIP in the league (SGA clear leader here) but definitely the MIP and surprise of this team. The kid is making himself a nice little career and a paycheck next summer.