The WNBA: Thread II

[pantsparty]

I haven't watched the start of the first games on Friday because it overlaps with Jeopardy. It seems like they get going quite late relative to what the TV schedule says.

Fun games. I had dismissed Elam ending because they tried it the NBA all-star game and it was still boring, but every game ending on a walk-off bucket is pretty cool. The compressed court is so much better than the half-court format at the Olympics.

 

[pantsparty]

3 team trade: https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/43577684/sources-jewell-loyd-aces-kelsey-plum-sparks-trade

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

My wife is despondent over losing AT: https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/43599444/sources-mercury-acquire-alyssa-thomas-trade-sun

 

[BaseballJones]

My wife is despondent over losing AT: https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/43599444/sources-mercury-acquire-alyssa-thomas-trade-sun

Oh man that's enormous. She was always great, but never the A+ star to carry a team because she doesn't score. All the other A+ stars can score. But man, she's still awesome. CT better have gotten a haul.

And since her spouse or fiancee (can't remember if they're actually married) is Bonner. Separate teams or what happens there?

 

[LA_33]

Oh man that's enormous. She was always great, but never the A+ star to carry a team because she doesn't score. All the other A+ stars can score. But man, she's still awesome. CT better have gotten a haul.

And since her spouse or fiancee (can't remember if they're actually married) is Bonner. Separate teams or what happens there?

Bonner is an unrestricted FA, I'm seeing speculation that she's headed (back) to Phoenix to continue playing with Thomas.

 

[BaseballJones]

Bonner is an unrestricted FA, I'm seeing speculation that she's headed (back) to Phoenix to continue playing with Thomas.

That makes total sense. Man, the Sun are going to have a rough couple of years coming up.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

Bonner is an unrestricted FA, I'm seeing speculation that she's headed (back) to Phoenix to continue playing with Thomas.

This makes sense as a two-fer if Phoenix wants to retool in a hurry, with Griner a FA and Taurasi possibly retiring. Although Bonner is a bit long in the tooth also.

Edit: No chance of this happening, but it would be wild if Taurasi was coming from Phoenix to play one more year in Connecticut before retiring. The deal can't be formally announced until Feb 1, so I'm not sure if we'll know the Mercury side before then.

 

[pantsparty]

BG to the Dream: https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/43603843/sources-brittney-griner-agrees-1-year-deal-dream

Apparently Unrivaled has become THE free agency hub, with teams sending execs down to Miami to make sure they aren't missing out.

 

[Eastchop]

My wife is despondent over losing AT: https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/43599444/sources-mercury-acquire-alyssa-thomas-trade-sun

We go to a few games a year and my kids are very into it. The loss of Thomas, Bonner and White are huge. If they lose Carrington too there might be tears in my house. My kids are finally old enough to follow and have loved the last few Sun teams

The Sun have some work to do and need to invest in the facilities if they want to draw talent. Other teams are investing big while they share the practice court, during a playoff series, with a 2 year olds birthday party. They just plain need to do better.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

We go to a few games a year and my kids are very into it. The loss of Thomas, Bonner and White are huge. If they lose Carrington too there might be tears in my house. My kids are finally old enough to follow and have loved the last few Sun teams

The Sun have some work to do and need to invest in the facilities if they want to draw talent. Other teams are investing big while they share the practice court, during a playoff series, with a 2 year olds birthday party. They just plain need to do better.

Mohegan Sun is hemorrhaging money from their new Korean facility with its 20% or so interest rates, so my conspiracy tentacles are up. With the value of WNBA franchises increasing, would the tribe take the large capital influx to fend off creditors? Also the Celtics are about to be sold to a new owner, and that owner may like the idea of having summertime basketball locked up as well.

The only pause in this line of thinking is that Mohegan would basically be ensuring a lot more vacancy in the arena and therefore less spillover business within the rest of the casino. Short term gain, but long term pain.

 

[BaseballJones]

The Sun are going to be completely different in 2025. I bet Carrington will be gone as well.

 

[amh03]

Is Carrington on the market? I thought she was committed for one more year?

Edit - she’s a restricted free agent

 

[BaseballJones]

Is Carrington on the market? I thought she was committed for one more year?

Edit - she’s a restricted free agent

I think they may move her in a trade.

 

[amh03]

I hope not…thought her being the player in all the TD Garden teasers meant she‘d be around.

Plus, they could sign NaLyssa Smith…the two are playing on the same team in Unrivaled….

 

[OCST]

We go to a few games a year and my kids are very into it. The loss of Thomas, Bonner and White are huge. If they lose Carrington too there might be tears in my house. My kids are finally old enough to follow and have loved the last few Sun teams

The Sun have some work to do and need to invest in the facilities if they want to draw talent. Other teams are investing big while they share the practice court, during a playoff series, with a 2 year olds birthday party. They just plain need to do better.

Sun won’t last at Uncasville for much longer. Putting a team there to capitalize on the popularity of UConn made sense when UConn was the only women’s team selling out arenas and the league was struggling for a foothold. Different world now.

Boston makes a lot of sense.

 

[OCST]

I’d question how much casino business the WNBA crowd brings. Could be wrong but I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of Sun fans never set foot in the casino.

 

[InstaFace]

I’d question how much casino business the WNBA crowd brings. Could be wrong but I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of Sun fans never set foot in the casino.

Given the average revenue for each marginal person who walks in a casino's doors (especially one that's so out of the way like Mohegan), and the low operating cost of a WNBA team (probably $5-10M I'd reckon), what percentage of customers do they need to cross sell for it to be a net positive for them? Probably a single digit percent, I would think.

And then there's the value the team brings to them in the other direction, to provide rewards and entertainment for the customers who were coming already.

 

[BaseballJones]

I can't imagine having the Sun is a losing proposition for Mohegan Sun. There's always folks going into the casino after games (or in there before games). I'm there a lot (the games, not the casino - not a gambler) and I see people going to and from the casino <--> arena a lot. No idea how much $$ is spent there. But people also go to the arena and then shop in the mall area and get tons of food in the restaurants or inside the arena. Just can't imagine it's not worth it financially to Mohegan Sun.

And they didn't put a team there so much to capitalize on UConn's popularity (though I'm sure that was part of the formula). Every WNBA team originally started as a companion to an existing NBA team. The Sun were originally in Orlando, if memory serves, and CT made a lot of sense, yes because we love women's hoops here, but also because Mohegan Sun footed the bill and offered the WNBA an incredible financial deal.

 

[BaseballJones]

Brionna Jones signed with Atlanta. Four of CT’s five starters from 2024 are now gone, with nothing even close to suitable replacements on board. The Sun have been completely gutted.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

Brionna Jones signed with Atlanta. Four of CT’s five starters from 2024 are now gone, with nothing even close to suitable replacements on board. The Sun have been completely gutted.

Yeah it's sad, had a nice winning window from 2017-24 with no titles to show for it. I'm hoping this foreign coach has some good overseas connections. The Sun are decidedly a small market team, not for spending necessarily, but the fact there is no real metro area players could stay year-round. Importing players who just want to come to the States to play ball may be their best route.

 

[reggiecleveland]

Addition by subtraction for Fever. Nalyssa Smith is gone

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/basketball/wnba/fever/2025/01/31/sophie-cunningham-indiana-fever-3-point-shooter-three-way-trade-satou-sabally-nalyssa-smith/78103290007/

The Indiana Fever have reportedly completed a three-way trade, dealing NaLyssa Smith and the No. 8 pick to Dallas for Sophie Cunningham from Phoenix and the 19th pick in the WNBA draft, according to a report from ESPN's Kendra Andrews.

Phoenix received Satou Sabally, Kalani Brown and Sevgi Uzun, while Dallas also receives the rights to Mikiah Herbert Harrigan.

 

[LA_33]

Addition by subtraction for Fever. Nalyssa Smith is gone

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/basketball/wnba/fever/2025/01/31/sophie-cunningham-indiana-fever-3-point-shooter-three-way-trade-satou-sabally-nalyssa-smith/78103290007/

The Phoenix side of that deal, adding Satou Sabaly to Copper and Alyssa Thomas (and probably still Bonner in FA) is a big deal.

The Mercury are going to be completely different, but probably even better than the last couple Taurasi/Griner teams.

 

[Merkle's Boner]

Yes Phoenix seems to have done an incredible job in revamping the team. And I think Indiana has also made smart moves, with Cunningham and analysts Howard coming in, resigning Mitchell, and ditching Smith.
I’m very interested to see what Paige Bueckers decides after this season. I saw something about Seattle positioning itself to move from the second pick to the top pick if Paige says she doesn’t want to play in Dallas.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/43652039/wings-land-dijonai-carrington-trade-sun-sources-say

The Connecticut Sun are trading guard DiJonai Carrington, the WNBA's Most Improved Player in 2024, to the Dallas Wings, sources confirmed to ESPN on Saturday.

Dallas also receives the No. 12 pick in April's draft and the rights to swap picks with Connecticut in the second round of the 2026 draft.

The Sun receive guard Jacy Sheldon, who was the No. 5 pick in the 2024 draft, and the No. 8 pick in the 2025 draft.

 

[BaseballJones]

Nailed it on the Carrington trade. Ugh the entire starting five is gone from the Sun. I knew they couldn't win it all with their team but to see it completely blown up is still startling.

 

[OCST]

View: https://twitter.com/MylesEhrlich/status/1885714856763949073


Sun appear to still be in the Fort-Wayne-Pistons-pull-up-to-MSG-in-station-wagons phase of development and the players getting a taste of better want out.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

View: https://twitter.com/MylesEhrlich/status/1885714856763949073


Sun appear to still be in the Fort-Wayne-Pistons-pull-up-to-MSG-in-station-wagons phase of development and the players getting a taste of better want out.

Exactly: when it's a downgrade in facilities to go from the college game to the Sun AND you're faced with few amenities or nearby living arrangements besides the casino, that's a losing formula. There's no imminent plans to change the facility situation either.

 

[OCST]

Angel got booted from Unrivaled today. Two techs for an extended beef with the zebras. Seemed a bit harsh.

 

[amh03]

Reports coming out this morning that DeWanna Bonner is signing w the Fever. Damn…they've totally dismantled the Sun.

 

[smokin joe wood]

Reports coming out this morning that DeWanna Bonner is signing w the Fever. Damn…they've totally dismantled the Sun.

Replacing Smith and Samuelson's minutes with Howard and Bonner is a huge upgrade. If Boston can become a reliable 3-PT shooter they can live in the four out world all season and work in some 5 out. Suits Clark and Mitchell so much better.

How was Bonner's defense last season in CT?

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

I knew Bonner was gone when AT went to Phoenix, but thought they'd be a package deal? Surprising, but I suppose the seaaon is still relatively short so there is no need to hitch their wagons work-wise.

This is Stephanie White wanting a vet who's played in her system, who can also play well off of Clark.

 

[reggiecleveland]

Replacing Smith and Samuelson's minutes with Howard and Bonner is a huge upgrade. If Boston can become a reliable 3-PT shooter they can live in the four out world all season and work in some 5 out. Suits Clark and Mitchell so much better.

How was Bonner's defense last season in CT?

Boston is almost the weakest member of that starting 5, not in terms of talent but in toughness and consistency. I look forward to how she progresses under the new staff. Bonner is one of my favourite players. Extra long defender who plays with an edge. Cunningham, Hull Samuelson, off the bench is pretty good. The Fever need another tough forward IMHO opinion.

I doubt 5 out is in the cards. The wnba is more like 80s/90s NBA where forwards matter. The most dominant player is not a credible 3 point shooter. The defending champs had two forwards who shoot the 3 and they yoyo the two bigs in a hard to guard high low. The pace and strategy are different. Way more threes in the W come from throwing the ball into the post 1st.

If you prorate for 48 minutes the nba plays at faster pace and shoots the three way more often. The Liberty (most 3s shot in W) prorated total would be 34.8 making them around 26th or 27th in 3s attempted in the NBA.

Shots w nba
2 55.5 51
3 27.6 37
2+3 82 89
ft 21.6 21

 

[smokin joe wood]

Boston is almost the weakest member of that starting 5, not in terms of talent but in toughness and consistency. I look forward to how she progresses under the new staff. Bonner is one of my favourite players. Extra long defender who plays with an edge. Cunningham, Hull Samuelson, off the bench is pretty good. The Fever need another tough forward IMHO opinion.

I doubt 5 out is in the cards. The wnba is more like 80s/90s NBA where forwards matter. The most dominant player is not a credible 3 point shooter. The defending champs had two forwards who shoot the 3 and they yoyo the two bigs in a hard to guard high low. The pace and strategy are different. Way more threes in the W come from throwing the ball into the post 1st.

If you prorate for 48 minutes the nba plays at faster pace and shoots the three way more often. The Liberty (most 3s shot in W) prorated total would be 34.8 making them around 26th or 27th in 3s attempted in the NBA.

Shots w nba
2 55.5 51
3 27.6 37
2+3 82 89
ft 21.6 21

I think Hull will start at the 3. The team went on a run with her improved play last year. She is a good 3/D fit with the Clark and Mitchell backcourt.

 

[reggiecleveland]

I think Hull will start at the 3. The team went on a run with her improved play last year. She is a good 3/D fit with the Clark and Mitchell backcourt.

You think Bonner signed to come off the bench? There are minutes for both, but I think the vet wants to start.

 

[Eastchop]

The sun get Tina Charles so there’s that. Hard to see where they go from here with unexciting assets and draft pick, unless they are in fact angling to sell?

 

[BaseballJones]

The sun get Tina Charles so there’s that. Hard to see where they go from here with unexciting assets and draft pick, unless they are in fact angling to sell?

Well, at least Charles is still a very, very good player (~15 points, ~10 rebounds a game last year), so that helps. I'm excited for Jacy Sheldon. And I think Mabrey is an assassin. But they have a LONG way to go to field a competitive team still.

 

[InstaFace]

Sun appear to still be in the Fort-Wayne-Pistons-pull-up-to-MSG-in-station-wagons phase of development and the players getting a taste of better want out.

Wow now THERE's a reference I had to look up. A Grantland oral history!

https://grantland.com/features/bob-cousy-elgin-baylor-walt-frazier-tommy-heinsohn-others-talk-travel-nba/

Dolph Schayes: When the BAA [Basketball Association of America] merged with the National League in 1949, there were a lot of small, Midwestern towns. Each team played each other once that year, the BAA teams and the old National League. So the Sheboygan Red Skins come into New York to play the Knicks. It’s not bad enough that on the marquee of Madison Square Garden, it says Knicks versus Sheboygan. But at eight o’clock for an 8:30 game, up comes two station wagons. That’s how the Sheboygan Red Skins got to New York, and right in front of the Garden as everybody’s coming in, these guys came out with their bags and played the game. And I think [Knicks owner] Ned Irish told the owners, “We’ve got to be more big-time.” The next year, they dumped all of those Midwestern teams.

The final anecdote there from Tommy Heinsohn is worth its weight in gold, too.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

The sun get Tina Charles so there’s that. Hard to see where they go from here with unexciting assets and draft pick, unless they are in fact angling to sell?

Well, at least Charles is still a very, very good player (~15 points, ~10 rebounds a game last year), so that helps. I'm excited for Jacy Sheldon. And I think Mabrey is an assassin. But they have a LONG way to go to field a competitive team still.

Despite losing all 5 starters, THIS was actually the transaction that put my wife over the edge and made her think about ending her season tickets right then. I don't know the full story, but got the sense from her that Charles wanted to get away from the Sun as soon as possible to get to the Liberty as soon as being a free agent. And NOW that she's past her prime Charles is all too happy to come back to the team that selected her first in the 2010 draft.

 

[BaseballJones]

Despite losing all 5 starters, THIS was actually the transaction that put my wife over the edge and made her think about ending her season tickets right then. I don't know the full story, but got the sense from her that Charles wanted to get away from the Sun as soon as possible to get to the Liberty as soon as being a free agent. And NOW that she's past her prime Charles is all too happy to come back to the team that selected her first in the 2010 draft.

Well, I don't know why Charles wanted to leave a while back - maybe it had something to do with the coach at the time, who is no longer there. I don't know. And while she's past her prime, she's still really good and obviously she wants a job in the WNBA. Having known her personally from her time here at UConn, I'm happy she's back. But I don't know what that whole story was when she first left.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

Well, I don't know why Charles wanted to leave a while back - maybe it had something to do with the coach at the time, who is no longer there. I don't know. And while she's past her prime, she's still really good and obviously she wants a job in the WNBA. Having known her personally from her time here at UConn, I'm happy she's back. But I don't know what that whole story was when she first left.

I honestly think it had some to do with the coach, as Anne Donovan did terribly after Thibeault was fired after her 3rd year. Her 4th and final year of the rookie deal they went 10-24 despite a top 4 of Charles, Hightower, Kara Lawson and Renee Montgomery. At the very least, you need to be at or over .500 with that team. In fairness their depth was kind of suspect.

However, emotions were high from the fanbase as the Sun cored Charles at the end of her rookie deal yet she demanded a trade "back home" to the Liberty. I don't fault her all that much, but I'm also not the one with the season tickets haha. In the end though, one of the picks the Sun received from the Liberty for Charles was the 4th overall pick in the 2014 draft which they turned into...Alyssa Thomas.

 

[reggiecleveland]

Fever add backup point guard Sydney Colson. Vet who looks after the ball.

https://www.si.com/onsi/womens-fastbreak/news/fever-add-former-wnba-champion-sydney-colson-in-latest-free-agency-move-01jk9qpxbpa4

Also she is charismatic and fun. She could benefit from more exposure in Indiana.

https://www.tiktok.com/@wnba/video/7419339629427510558

 

[BaseballJones]

2024 Sun:
Harris
Carrington
Bonner
Thomas
Jones
Mabrey

2015 Sun:
Sheldon
Deshields
Allen
Charles
Cloud
Mabrey
Milic
#8 pick

Sheldon has lots of room to grow as a young player. Cloud is a solid vet. Charles is still very good even at her age (36). Allen is a bench type as is Deshields. Not someone you mind bringing into the game for a few minutes but not good enough to win games carrying a heavy minutes load.

They’re going to need Mabrey to score about 18 a game. It’ll be interesting to see if she can do that as more of a #1 option. I’m not sure she can while being efficient. (I mean if she takes enough shots she’ll average 18 a game)

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

2024 Sun:
Harris
Carrington
Bonner
Thomas
Jones
Mabrey

2015 Sun:
Sheldon
Deshields
Allen
Charles
Cloud
Mabrey
Milic
#8 pick

Sheldon has lots of room to grow as a young player. Cloud is a solid vet. Charles is still very good even at her age (36). Allen is a bench type as is Deshields. Not someone you mind bringing into the game for a few minutes but not good enough to win games carrying a heavy minutes load.

They’re going to need Mabrey to score about 18 a game. It’ll be interesting to see if she can do that as more of a #1 option. I’m not sure she can while being efficient. (I mean if she takes enough shots she’ll average 18 a game)

Fort Wayne it is lol: https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/43709170/veteran-guard-marina-mabrey-requests-trade-sun

 

[BaseballJones]

Fort Wayne it is lol: https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/43709170/veteran-guard-marina-mabrey-requests-trade-sun

LOL good grief

 

[Granite Sox]

Fever add backup point guard Sydney Colson. Vet who looks after the ball.

https://www.si.com/onsi/womens-fastbreak/news/fever-add-former-wnba-champion-sydney-colson-in-latest-free-agency-move-01jk9qpxbpa4

Also she is charismatic and fun. She could benefit from more exposure in Indiana.

https://www.tiktok.com/@wnba/video/7419339629427510558

Love it. Indianapolis won’t know what to do with her!

 

[BaseballJones]

Fort Wayne it is lol: https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/43709170/veteran-guard-marina-mabrey-requests-trade-sun

BTW, I spoke with someone in the Sun organization yesterday and she said that they are absolutely discussing ways to address the issues that are leading people to want to leave - namely, the facilities and such. Nothing can be done about the fact that Uncasville is in the middle of nowhere and not in a city like NY or LA or Atlanta. But they're well aware of the problems and they're planning on fixing them. No more details other than that.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

BTW, I spoke with someone in the Sun organization yesterday and she said that they are absolutely discussing ways to address the issues that are leading people to want to leave - namely, the facilities and such. Nothing can be done about the fact that Uncasville is in the middle of nowhere and not in a city like NY or LA or Atlanta. But they're well aware of the problems and they're planning on fixing them. No more details other than that.

The problem is if that cycle is just starting now, new facilities take time to finish and in the meantime the Sun could be hemorrhaging season ticket holders. The fortunate part is the TV contract is kicking in so they can rely on a minimum level of revenues while figuring stuff out. And they are setting themselves up for the JuJu sweepstakes, I suppose.

 

[BaseballJones]

The problem is if that cycle is just starting now, new facilities take time to finish and in the meantime the Sun could be hemorrhaging season ticket holders. The fortunate part is the TV contract is kicking in so they can rely on a minimum level of revenues while figuring stuff out. And they are setting themselves up for the JuJu sweepstakes, I suppose.

Yeah, it'll take a few years, and they won't be good, but the fans were still there in CT when the team stunk for a few years. Plus they'll be able to get high draft picks - maybe they'll end up with UConn's Sarah Strong in a few years, which absolutely will put butts in the seats in Mohegan. She's already beloved here.

 

[OCST]

This is fucking genius and I can't wait to see it.

The 30 Unrivaled players are going to compete in a one-on-one knockout:



From a strictly hoops perspective it will be fascinating to see what happens when a 1 draws a 5, etc.

From a marketing standpoint it's outrageously good.

This thing just goes from strength to strength.

I wish all women's sports ventures were planned and executed with such aplomb

 

[OCST]

I wish all women's sports ventures were planned and executed with such aplomb