The Zen of Rooting for Club and Country

[Titans Bastard]

Also, since this thread has a lot of questions from people new to following the sport, I thought it would be somewhat worthwhile to point out that the league that enjoys the greatest popularity in the US is Liga MX and it's not particularly close.  The viewership for the Liga MX final this spring even beat out the Champions League final fairly comfortably.
 
Most Anglos, myself included, do not follow Liga MX all that closely because it's not particularly accessible in terms of English-language sources.  But in the overall scope of Americans interested in soccer, it's big.

 

[soxfan121]

I do not habla espanol but I watch any Univision broadcasts I can because the passion for the game is so undeniably present. After years of this, I'm pretty sure I could participate in a discussion about football tactics in espanol but haven't the foggiest how to ask for a bathroom break or where the library might be located. 

 

[URI]

Can you please capitalize the above (in bold) in future please? The flagrant, insulting use of the lower case has me troubled and concerned, moving forwards.
 
The Spurs will be my 7th favourite team this season, after the mighty Raith Rovers, Liverpool, Celtic, Newcastle, Wigan, Everton and Norwich...shit 8th favourite team.

Maybe if you push us top 4, I'll use the proper case.

 

[URI]

I just read up on Spurs for quite a while, travelling around the internet. Christ, I'm sorry URI.

Despite me saying people should not start rooting for Spurs blind, I think it might fit you Drock. Your good natured self-loathing would fit in well with us.

 

[Bosoxen]

Also, since this thread has a lot of questions from people new to following the sport, I thought it would be somewhat worthwhile to point out that the league that enjoys the greatest popularity in the US is Liga MX and it's not particularly close.  The viewership for the Liga MX final this spring even beat out the Champions League final fairly comfortably.
 
Most Anglos, myself included, do not follow Liga MX all that closely because it's not particularly accessible in terms of English-language sources.  But in the overall scope of Americans interested in soccer, it's big.

 
It's funny you mention Liga MX. I would follow it a lot more closely, myself, if it weren't for the fact that their schedule is so intrusive. I do have a team in Liga MX - Monterrey - but my following can only be considered distant. The reason I primarily follow the Premier League is because of their early morning games (for us, anyway). It's just a lot easier to watch a game at 7:00 am before the wife and baby wake up (this is the reason I don't watch much La Liga either, aside from Clasicos). The only reason watching American football every weekend is sustainable is because it's only for four months. If I did that every Sunday for the entire year, my wife might literally murder me.
 
I do have every intention of following FC Dallas, however. Their stadium is 10 minutes from my house and I think getting season tickets would be a really great way to build some family unity once the kiddo - and her future sibling(s) - grows older. Would be a nice bonus to start my kids off with a healthy love of the beautiful game, considering how hard that is to cultivate in our society.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

OCST's comment about becoming an Everton fan due to Tim Howard parallels my becoming a Spurs fan due to Casey Keller playing for them back around 2000, and we just had a daughter we named Casey. For those of you falling in love with soccer, I would suggest to keep an eye on some of the USMNT players and see if any of them land with a club in one of the major European leagues.  This gives you an immediate rooting interest.  I'm not sure who may be in line for a transfer, but it's a thought.
 
By the way, our best European players have historically been Keepers.  Not only have Tim Howard and Casey Keller played in the EPL, but our backup goalie Brad Guzan starts for Aston Villa and Brad Friedel was the Lou Gehrig of the EPL for awhile. It may be worthy of a separate discussion, but for whatever reason (I think the use of our hands is something we are more comfortable with) the US has always had a first-class goalkeeper.

 
Don't forget Sylvester Stalone in Victory!

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

I'm sure I've told this story before, but finding a club to support is all about gateways.

In 1998, I was in Munich as part of a short-term exchange program and saw a Munich match -- an 1860 Munich match, which would be City to Bayern's United if anyone gave a shit about the club, which now languishes in the 2. Bundesliga, forever doomed to play in a 69,000 seat stadium with no prospects of ever filling it.

As 1860 collapsed into obscurity, I saw Thierry Henry for the first time and followed Arsenal fairly loosely because of him. Then, a few months after the fact, I saw a clip of Steven Gerrard fire a shot through the heart of Olympiakos, then he followed up 17 months later with a similar strike against West Ham in the 2006 FA Cup Final. Because of Gerrard's ability to strike from just about anywhere, I got into Liverpool just as Robbie Fowler came back for a second, and final, stint at Anfield. Then I started to learn about the history of the club. Now, after surviving the fossilization of Fernando Torres, Hicks/Gillett, Woy, and Andy Carroll, I follow Liverpool as intensely as any American club. In fact, I was listening to the Chelsea match driving across Nova Scotia, and as the second goal was being scored, all I could do was turn down the radio, embrace the silence, and try to find some positive to salvage the day, which Crystal Palace pissed away within minutes of starting their match against City.

All I can say is, if something pulls you to a club, go with it and see where it leads. Maybe you pull for a big club because of the atmosphere at a stadium, or maybe it's a small club because you saw them pull off the most unlikely of Cupsets. The only person you'll have to answer to on any of this is yourself, so make it a fun trip.

 

[Titans Bastard]

I do have every intention of following FC Dallas, however. Their stadium is 10 minutes from my house and I think getting season tickets would be a really great way to build some family unity once the kiddo - and her future sibling(s) - grows older. Would be a nice bonus to start my kids off with a healthy love of the beautiful game, considering how hard that is to cultivate in our society.

 
FC Dallas is sitting on a goldmine of talent in North Texas.  Their academy dominates at every level and now that they got rid of Schellas Hyndman, who basically refused to use their academy graduates, these guys are starting to filter into the first team.  Kellyn Acosta in particular is one the US's better prospects and I'm sure you know about Richard Sanchez.  Most of this contingent is Mexican-American as well, if that's any hook.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Here's my story: I first became a casual but very ignorant Arsenal fan because one of my youth soccer teams (when I was 11 or 12, can't remember) was called Arsenal and I thought it was a cool name.  Around that time, playing soccer became a huge part of my life so like any kid I started to follow and idolize the professionals.  There  was really no way to watch European soccer back then (late 80s/early 90s), other than an English league highlights show that would be shown for half an hour every week on Sports Channel, so I mainly followed the sport by subscribing to soccer magazines and buying soccer cards.  I was an Arsenal "fan" in that I especially looked for Arsenal-related articles and cards (I still have my Alan Smith, Ian Wright, Paul Merson, Tony Adams, Lee Dixon, etc cards somewhere) but I was kind of a fan of English soccer players in general.  My interest in following soccer ended up waning as my interest in playing soccer did, which was in the mid to late 1990s, so, rather unfortunately, I essentially lost touch with Arsenal just as Wenger was arriving and the glory years were beginning.  I started getting back into following and watching soccer a little bit around 2007-8 for various reasons - started playing again a little bit, more soccer available on TV - and Arsenal were the natural team for me to support given my history with them and their newfound reputation for playing attractive football.  My level of interest has waxed and waned even during that period as other things have been happening in my life but I find that currently Arsenal are basically right up there with the Patriots and Red Sox as teams that I care about the most.

 

[Bosoxen]

 
FC Dallas is sitting on a goldmine of talent in North Texas.  Their academy dominates at every level and now that they got rid of Schellas Hyndman, who basically refused to use their academy graduates, these guys are starting to filter into the first team.  Kellyn Acosta in particular is one the US's better prospects and I'm sure you know about Richard Sanchez.  Most of this contingent is Mexican-American as well, if that's any hook.

 
That doesn't really move the needle. I'm not one of those Mexico fans that started rooting for ManU because Chicharito went there (cause, really, fuck them). In all honesty, it would actually make it more painful to see those guys play in a US shirt rather than Mexico.

 

[canderson]

 
That doesn't really move the needle. I'm not one of those Mexico fans that started rooting for ManU because Chicharito went there (cause, really, fuck them). In all honesty, it would actually make it more painful to see those guys play in a US shirt rather than Mexico.

I'm a fellow Dallas-ite. With that my dislike of Houston is known. That said Houston's MLS team has a very strong following and I was forced to go to a game there last year and had a great time. Rooting for anything in Houston is probably impossible, but maybe worth a look.

 

[Bosoxen]

I cannot and will not ever root for anything from Houston or San Antonio. If I do start following MLS, it would definitely be FC Dallas. Their proximity makes it a no-brainer.

 

[canderson]

I cannot and will not ever root for anything from Houston or San Antonio. If I do start following MLS, it would definitely be FC Dallas. Their proximity makes it a no-brainer.

Oh, I agree. But maybe the Houston dynamic can make you hate them they have a pretty passionate fanbase and support on FC Dallas. Frisco's a nice place for the game, for sure.

 

[BigPapiLumber Co.]

Ossie sent me the most incredible, richest, descriptive PM when I asked him about 1860 Munich. I don't know if I can post ut since he was banned, but I'll PM it to anyone who asks

 
Oh man!  Ossie got banned?  For what?
 
It was some random post of his that got me looking into F.C. St. Pauli, and I've been following them ever since.  (If you fancy yourself a lefty (politically), a punk, or just like underdogs with Skull & Crossbow flags, take a look.  Currently in the 2. Bundesliga.)  
 
Liverpool is my BPL team mostly because I have a friend who's a big supporter, and when Henry & Co. bought them, that was that.

 

[cromulence]

OK guys, here's my problem with following the top leagues. Maybe you can help me get past this because as much as I want to truly invest my interest, it just seems like a cruel joke to follow anyone but the top teams, which then feels like frontrunning. Let's say I want to support Southampton. Hey, awesome, we have a bunch of great young talent coming up! Oh, wait, no, it's a foregone conclusion that we're going to sell all of them and watch them become superstars at a bigger club. It just drives me crazy that it's utterly impossible for a club to make a big move upwards other than suddenly gaining a mega-rich owner. Please, tell me why I'm wrong or how I can get around this. I don't want to just show up and root for United but I also don't want to torture myself with a club that has zero hope of doing anything beyond staving off relegation.

 

[Titans Bastard]

OK guys, here's my problem with following the top leagues. Maybe you can help me get past this because as much as I want to truly invest my interest, it just seems like a cruel joke to follow anyone but the top teams, which then feels like frontrunning. Let's say I want to support Southampton. Hey, awesome, we have a bunch of great young talent coming up! Oh, wait, no, it's a foregone conclusion that we're going to sell all of them and watch them become superstars at a bigger club. It just drives me crazy that it's utterly impossible for a club to make a big move upwards other than suddenly gaining a mega-rich owner. Please, tell me why I'm wrong or how I can get around this. I don't want to just show up and root for United but I also don't want to torture myself with a club that has zero hope of doing anything beyond staving off relegation.

 
 

 
 
Just saying.  Despite the warts, it's not a caste system league like just about everything in Europe.

 

[teddykgb]

OK guys, here's my problem with following the top leagues. Maybe you can help me get past this because as much as I want to truly invest my interest, it just seems like a cruel joke to follow anyone but the top teams, which then feels like frontrunning. Let's say I want to support Southampton. Hey, awesome, we have a bunch of great young talent coming up! Oh, wait, no, it's a foregone conclusion that we're going to sell all of them and watch them become superstars at a bigger club. It just drives me crazy that it's utterly impossible for a club to make a big move upwards other than suddenly gaining a mega-rich owner. Please, tell me why I'm wrong or how I can get around this. I don't want to just show up and root for United but I also don't want to torture myself with a club that has zero hope of doing anything beyond staving off relegation.

 
First of all, don't root for United, Munich, or Madrid.  Most of your problems are already solved.  There are always teams nipping at the top teams and sometimes overthrowing them, there's a real pool there.  Or if you're into match fixing and outrageous transfer dealings, pick a team in Italy.  Setting all of that aside, fandom isn't a logical choice, and you probably shouldn't pick a team based on its likelihood to win or not win.  When geography doesn't drive, playstyle, history, and the sets of fans might.  There's a different ethos and personality amongst many of the fanbases, and if you just watch you'll find yourself gravitating toward one team or another and your fandom becomes more natural.  I'm pretty sure I've posted this on here before, but I fell in love with City through watching Ronaldo on United.  He was Portuguese, i started watching a bunch, found that i pretty much hated his team but loved the lunatics at City who were doing absolutely silly things during Derby matches.  It just kind of happened.  For you it may be the toon army or maybe you're super interested in balance sheets and you'll fall for Arsenal, but I think you're approaching it wrong if you try to pick a team and force yourself to love them.

 

[cromulence]

 
Just saying.  Despite the warts, it's not a caste system league like just about everything in Europe.

 
I hear ya. Just wish it would qualify as a top league, but maybe someday.
 

 
First of all, don't root for United, Munich, or Madrid.  Most of your problems are already solved.  There are always teams nipping at the top teams and sometimes overthrowing them, there's a real pool there.  Or if you're into match fixing and outrageous transfer dealings, pick a team in Italy.  Setting all of that aside, fandom isn't a logical choice, and you probably shouldn't pick a team based on its likelihood to win or not win.  When geography doesn't drive, playstyle, history, and the sets of fans might.  There's a different ethos and personality amongst many of the fanbases, and if you just watch you'll find yourself gravitating toward one team or another and your fandom becomes more natural.  I'm pretty sure I've posted this on here before, but I fell in love with City through watching Ronaldo on United.  He was Portuguese, i started watching a bunch, found that i pretty much hated his team but loved the lunatics at City who were doing absolutely silly things during Derby matches.  It just kind of happened.  For you it may be the toon army or maybe you're super interested in balance sheets and you'll fall for Arsenal, but I think you're approaching it wrong if you try to pick a team and force yourself to love them.

 
So you just got insanely lucky and became a City fan at the perfect time? Damn. I used to play as City in FIFA before they were good, so I could rise up and take down United. I should've gone with them back then and stuck with it.

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

Ossie sent me the most incredible, richest, descriptive PM when I asked him about 1860 Munich. I don't know if I can post ut since he was banned, but I'll PM it to anyone who asks

I'm way late on this, but as one of the few Sechzig fans here, I'm beyond interested in that PM.

 

[teddykgb]

 
I hear ya. Just wish it would qualify as a top league, but maybe someday.
 
 
So you just got insanely lucky and became a City fan at the perfect time? Damn. I used to play as City in FIFA before they were good, so I could rise up and take down United. I should've gone with them back then and stuck with it.

 
Yes, stupidly lucky.  The whole takover and Robinho thing was very strange.  I had kind of taken a peek at them earlier when Reyna was at City, in a sort of misguided attempt to just pick a team because an American was on it, but things crystallized as the sport became so much more available over here.  
 
Which is also an important point.  We all want to avoid feeling like frauds, but this is a sport that was nearly impossible to follow for an American until the last decade, and only really plausibly followed seriously the last few years.  Aside from some of the imports on this forum, the vast majority of us are complete frauds anyway.  This is too new over here in terms of accessibility.

 

[Zomp]

Yeah I mean you're going to be accused of being a fraud no matter what.  Over time you'll learn about clubs, players, etc... and if you watch enough games you'll know your shit.  Its not rocket science, its sports.  Even people who are perceived to have intelligent opinions can be blowhards.
 
Read the Liverpool threads, you'll see what I mean.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Kidding guys....

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

OK guys, here's my problem with following the top leagues. Maybe you can help me get past this because as much as I want to truly invest my interest, it just seems like a cruel joke to follow anyone but the top teams, which then feels like frontrunning. Let's say I want to support Southampton. Hey, awesome, we have a bunch of great young talent coming up! Oh, wait, no, it's a foregone conclusion that we're going to sell all of them and watch them become superstars at a bigger club. It just drives me crazy that it's utterly impossible for a club to make a big move upwards other than suddenly gaining a mega-rich owner. Please, tell me why I'm wrong or how I can get around this. I don't want to just show up and root for United but I also don't want to torture myself with a club that has zero hope of doing anything beyond staving off relegation.

 
This is a very American attitude and definitely an understandable one.  Even in our sports leagues that are stacked against small markets, we like the fact that a well run team with a little luck (OKC Thunder, TB Rays) can go toe to toe with the wealthiest teams from the biggest cities.  Part of following European soccer involves accepting that its a different system over there - not ultimately worse, just different.
 
Some mitigating factors to consider:
 
1) Once you really come to terms with the fact that the system is different, hopefully you'll realize that there's nothing inherently wrong with supporting one of the larger clubs with a realistic shot at silverware.  We are accustomed to think of this as "front running," like somebody becoming a Heat fan in the last few years.  With European soccer its just a starker question: Do you want to support a club or not that might have a chance at playing in European competition and, if everything breaks right, winning a title?  There's nothing wrong with answering yes to that question.  The vast majority of soccer fans around the world do.
 
2) Among the teams with a realistic shot at silverware, there's a lot of variation in the degree to which the deck is stacked in their favor.  Teams like Madrid, Barca, PSG, and Bayern are so far ahead of the rest of their leagues that by supporting them you're basically signing up for titles and trophies nearly every season.  In the Premier League, United, Chelsea, and City stand well above everybody else in terms of finances and so you're picking a Goliath if you side with them at this point.  But there are plenty of other teams that might challenge for trophies when things break right but are still substantial underdogs vis-a-vis the biggest clubs in their leagues - this could be Liverpool, Arsenal, or Spurs in the Premier League, Atletico or a few other teams (which have risen and fallen in the last decade due to finances) in La Liga, Lyon in France, Dortmund, Schalke, or Leverkusen in Germany, or Inter, Napoli, or Roma in Italy.  If you have qualms with picking one of the truly massive clubs with huge financial advantages, just pick one of the second tier clubs that - while still towering over small clubs - needs an unusual constellation of good luck/play/management to win its league or contend in the Champions League, not just a big wallet.
 
3) Cup competitions also open up other possibilities for smaller clubs to win things.  While it may be unrealistic for a smaller club to beat the giants over the 38 game Premier League schedule, its perfectly realistic for smaller clubs to contend for the League Cup or FA Cup and those are huge achievements that can be defining moments in club history.  We don't really have an analogue to that in American sports.

 

[URI]

Yeah I mean you're going to be accused of being a fraud no matter what.  Over time you'll learn about clubs, players, etc... and if you watch enough games you'll know your shit.  Its not rocket science, its sports.  Even people who are perceived to have intelligent opinions can be blowhards.
 
Read the Liverpool threads, you'll see what I mean.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Kidding guys....

 
(No he's not)

 

[Zomp]

yeah im really not

 

[americantrotter]

Just support Bolton. We have Americans if that helps. We need all the help we can get and were gritty club in an old mill town surrounded by all the big boys.

A lot of history as well.

But to be serious pick a club that you can identify with. Maybe ancestry or common social ethics.

 

[fletcherpost]

I mean this with the greatest of respect, but if i were to take part in a SOSH five a side match Zomp would be the guy I'd most want to give a 'reducer' to early doors. Even if we were on the same team. And Zomp's a top man.

 

[Zomp]

I'm taking that as a compliment.  Clearly my reputation in the SoSH soccer matches precedes me.

 

[canderson]

Is there any way to learn about all the different cups / championship leagues / etc? It's inherently confusing and I can't ever seem to make sense of it. The same team for instance can be competing in two different cups plus their normal league and it's utterly mind-boggling to grasp.

 

[DJnVa]

Is there any way to learn about all the different cups / championship leagues / etc? It's inherently confusing and I can't ever seem to make sense of it. The same team for instance can be competing in two different cups plus their normal league and it's utterly mind-boggling to grasp.

 
For basics, just hit wiki. It's not perfect, but you'll get the outlines down.

 

[teddykgb]

If my memory serves, Zomp was wearing a Scholes shirt, he may have given you the reducer first.
 

Is there any way to learn about all the different cups / championship leagues / etc? It's inherently confusing and I can't ever seem to make sense of it. The same team for instance can be competing in two different cups plus their normal league and it's utterly mind-boggling to grasp.

 
Each league has its own cup or cups, but it's mostly the same setup.  There's the league proper, where the teams play each other twice and accumulate points for victories.  Whomever gets the most points wins the league.  So the Bruins would have been NHL Champions.  Then the cups run during the season, many leagues have multiple cups, but these are tournaments and pretty akin to our playoffs.  A lot more randomness is involved and teams have to try to manage their roster to progress without tiring out their players.  They run concurrent to the leagues and give teams that are out of contention in the league something to strive for.

 

[canderson]

If my memory serves, Zomp was wearing a Scholes shirt, he may have given you the reducer first.
 
 
Each league has its own cup or cups, but it's mostly the same setup.  There's the league proper, where the teams play each other twice and accumulate points for victories.  Whomever gets the most points wins the league.  So the Bruins would have been NHL Champions.  Then the cups run during the season, many leagues have multiple cups, but these are tournaments and pretty akin to our playoffs.  A lot more randomness is involved and teams have to try to manage their roster to progress without tiring out their players.  They run concurrent to the leagues and give teams that are out of contention in the league something to strive for.

This really helps, thanks.
 
But what then about like Champions League and the EUFA finals and so forth that are what appears to be a random mixture of teams from all over Europe? Those are independent of the leagues (unlike the cups you mentioned) right?

 

[teddykgb]

This really helps, thanks.
 
But what then about like Champions League and the EUFA finals and so forth that are what appears to be a random mixture of teams from all over Europe? Those are independent of the leagues (unlike the cups you mentioned) right?

 
The champions league's history is worth a read on wikipedia because its expansion from being just a Champions tournament to a "top teams" tournament has had a dramatic effect on the sport, but the Champions and Europa leagues are just additional cup tournaments.  Teams qualify for these tournaments by their performance in their home league in the prior season.  The top teams make the Champions league (the number of teams that qualify for CL varies by host league) and a few other teams play in the Europa league, which is considered 2nd tier to the CL.  Making it slightly more complicated, in the early rounds of the CL, if you lose, you then drop into the Europa league.
 
To make this more clear, I'll use England as an example.  The top 3 finishers from the league automatically qualify for the Champions League group stages ( Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea).  The 4th team, Arsenal, has a play in match to make the group stages.  The 5th and 6th place teams (Everton and Spurs) automatically qualify for the Europa league.  The 7th place team, Man United, the devil incarnate and a symbol for everything that is wrong in the world, qualify for nothing because they suck.
 
There's a ton of money involved in making the CL, so the jostling for finishing in the top-x (where x is the number of CL spots for that league) in the league is very important for teams in all of the leagues.  

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

This really helps, thanks.
 
But what then about like Champions League and the EUFA finals and so forth that are what appears to be a random mixture of teams from all over Europe? Those are independent of the leagues (unlike the cups you mentioned) right?

 
There are two European cup competitions nowadays, the Champions League and the Europa League.  You can read about both on wiki but the basic deal is that the member countries in UEFA send teams to these competitions based on a formula that accounts for the strength of each national league.  The strongest leagues get four spots in the CL and three further spots in the Europa League.  The CL and EL proceed through multiple stages, first a series of qualifying matches between the weakest teams that produces a more refined set of clubs that advance to the "group stage" (32 in CL, 48 in EL), then a knockout stage among those that advance from the groups that determines the ultimate winner.
 
These competitions run simultaneously with the regular national leagues and national cup competitions, with a complicated scheduling format that attempts to reduce the likelihood of conflicts or matches played too soon after one another.  The important thing to note is that the best clubs, which in some cases may be competing in four competitions at once, need to have big squads in order to handle so many matches.  There is a lot of juggling by managers to figure out which matches they can get away with not playing their strongest possible team, such that they can have players fully rested and fresh for the most important matches.  Generally speaking, the domestic cup competitions are seen as least important and so that's where teams will frequently not play their strongest possible team until near the end of the competition.  This actually makes these competitions more exciting as it levels the playing field between the big and smaller clubs and creates a lot of upset potential in the earlier rounds.

 

[soxfan121]

it just seems like a cruel joke to follow anyone but the top teams, 

 
Your pinstripes are showing. 
 

 

[URI]

 it just seems like a cruel joke to follow anyone but the top teams, which then feels like frontrunning.

 
Follow Spurs, and you'll get the benefits of a team that is top 7-8 every year, no one will accuse you of frontrunning, and almost every game feels like a cruel joke.
 
Plus, you'll understand better why so many Red Sox fans hate the shit out of Yankees fans.

 

[teddykgb]

URI begging everyone to root for Spurs is starting to feel like all those parents who try to tell me I should have children so i can be as miserable as they are

 

[Infield Infidel]

 
Follow Spurs, and you'll get the benefits of a team that is top 7-8 every year, no one will accuse you of frontrunning, and almost every game feels like a cruel joke.
 
Plus, you'll understand better why so many Red Sox fans hate the shit out of Yankees fans.

 
You can have this minus 1/2 the cruelty and plus Roberto Martinez and Tim Howard if you pick Everton. 

 

[soxfan121]

 
You can have this minus 1/2 the cruelty and plus Roberto Martinez and Tim Howard if you pick Everton. 

 
And if you ever wanted to know what it is like to be a Kansas City Royals fan, you can root for Newcastle.

 

[URI]

URI begging everyone to root for Spurs is starting to feel like all those parents who try to tell me I should have children so i can be as miserable as they are

 
You know, we have a nice little community in our thread.  And what does misery love?
 
Also, the less fucking Arsenal fans, the better.
 

 
You can have this minus 1/2 the cruelty and plus Roberto Martinez and Tim Howard if you pick Everton. 

 
What the fuck good is that?  Cruelty is our lifeblood.

 

[teddykgb]

 
And if you ever wanted to know what it is like to be a Kansas City Royals fan, you can root for Newcastle.

 
You're going to have to pick a time period here--KC is probably too competent.  Rooting for Newcastle is like rooting for the Omar Minaya Mets.

 

[Infield Infidel]

Newcastle is like the Orioles. Glory days are long gone, stuck behind bigger clubs now, terrible owner and one legendary retired player who all the fans think could do no wrong

 

[theapportioner]

Is it okay to like -both- Everton and Liverpool?

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Is it okay to like -both- Everton and Liverpool?

No

 

[BigPapiLumber Co.]

If my memory serves, Zomp was wearing a Scholes shirt, he may have given you the reducer first.
 
 
Each league has its own cup or cups, but it's mostly the same setup.  There's the league proper, where the teams play each other twice and accumulate points for victories.  Whomever gets the most points wins the league.  So the Bruins would have been NHL Champions.  Then the cups run during the season, many leagues have multiple cups, but these are tournaments and pretty akin to our playoffs.  A lot more randomness is involved and teams have to try to manage their roster to progress without tiring out their players.  They run concurrent to the leagues and give teams that are out of contention in the league something to strive for.

One thing I'll add to this is that the cups (FA Cup, Coppa Italia, Copa del Rey, etc.), are like the playoffs if every organized team in America could compete, from the Sox to Pawtucket to the St. Paul Saints and Long Island Ducks.  So in the early stages, in most countries, the clubs in the highest league (Premier League, La Liga) have a bye for at least a round or two while the 3rd and 4th division clubs play each other for the right to get crushed by the 1st and 2nd division clubs.

 

[Titans Bastard]

One thing I'll add to this is that the cups (FA Cup, Coppa Italia, Copa del Rey, etc.), are like the playoffs if every organized team in America could compete, from the Sox to Pawtucket to the St. Paul Saints and Long Island Ducks.  So in the early stages, in most countries, the clubs in the highest league (Premier League, La Liga) have a bye for at least a round or two while the 3rd and 4th division clubs play each other for the right to get crushed by the 1st and 2nd division clubs.

 
The most glorious example is the Coupe de France.  The FA Cup has entry requirements that involve basically having some semblance of a stadium -- some sort of covered stand and floodlights.  There are no requirements like that in France, so teams that are basically glorified rec league teams enter at the earliest rounds.  They even have regional cups in their overseas departments in places like Martinique, Reunion, New Caledonia, etc whose champions are funneled into the cup at a certain round.  The FFF stages these games in Paris and helps out with the travel costs to make this happen.

 

[rembrat]

So I want to follow the EPL as well but was wondering if they had a service that streams the matches online similar to MLB.tv. I quickly glanced through the leagues website but could not find anything. Ideally, I'd like to watch a different set of teams play every week so I can get a feel for the teams and the league. I'm sure I could find illegal streams online but I'd rather not have to resort to that. And what is the time difference like? I notice that the first game is at 10 AM(?).. my time (ESDT) yeah?

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

So I want to follow the EPL as well but was wondering if they had a service that streams the matches online similar to MLB.tv. I quickly glanced through the leagues website but could not find anything. Ideally, I'd like to watch a different set of teams play every week so I can get a feel for the teams and the league. I'm sure I could find illegal streams online but I'd rather not have to resort to that. And what is the time difference like? I notice that the first game is at 10 AM(?).. my time (ESDT) yeah?

 
I'm not sure about a pay service that streams any match but nbcsports.com streamed every match they carried on television, which was generally 4-5 matches per weekend and one on Monday from what I can recall.  That's a pretty good way to get a feel for the teams and the league.

 

[mgoblue2]

 
You can have this minus 1/2 the cruelty and plus Roberto Martinez and Tim Howard if you pick Everton. 

Half the cruelty? Do you remember the derby? (or Wigan. Or the semi from 2012. Oh god make it stop)

 

[cjdmadcow]

Is it okay to like -both- Everton and Liverpool?

 
Do you want the short answer or the long answer?
 
No & FUCK, NO!

 

[amh03]

Anyone pick a team based on the players? After watching that game yesterday, I feel like watching more of Tim Howard, so if I were to pick now, it'd likely be Everton.