This Could Be Us But You Playing: Who missed out that you most feel for?

[Al Zarilla]

Ever hear that expression that one awshit trumps ten attaboys? That's Welker with me (the catch that Collinsworth said he makes a thousand times out of a thousand). Funny, but for guys I wish could have won one, I think of Patriots guys before the dynasty, like Grogan, Hannah, Francis, Morgan, Bledsoe, Tippett. I know they couldn't have played Sunday but that's what I'd wish.

 

[triniSox]

Welker. Then Moss. It flip-flop depending on my mood.

 

[TFP]

Ever hear that expression that one awshit trumps ten attaboys? That's Welker with me (the pass that Collinsworth said he makes a thousand times out of a thousand). Funny, but for guys I wish could have won one, I think of Patriots guys before the dynasty, like Grogan, Hannah, Francis, Morgan, Bledsoe, Tippett. I know they couldn't have played Sunday but that's what I'd wish.

Bledsoe won a ring.

 

[RG33]

I also don't get the love for Mankins. Between his holdout, the comments he made about Kraft, his decision to not take the paycut, and the MacMullan article where he is still bitter and obviously hinting at being the one taking the "higher road" by not saying "other things", fuck him.

Moss for sure. Welker, yeah.

 

[TheoShmeo]

The entire 1976 New England Patriots roster.
 
Fuck Ben Dreith.

Massive bingo for me.  2004 Red Sox cured 2003 and really all other prior ills.  This Pats title goes a long way to dealing with the Giants fluke jobs.  But nothing fixes the crime that Dreith inflicted on us.
 
Also, Nomar and Todd Walker.  Wrong sport but whatever.

 

[Reverend]

Massive bingo for me.  2004 Red Sox cured 2003 and really all other prior ills.  This Pats title goes a long way to dealing with the Giants fluke jobs.  But nothing fixes the crime that Dreith inflicted on us.
 
Also, Nomar and Todd Walker.  Wrong sport but whatever.

 
Nomar got a ring.
 
And his former teammates went out of their way to make it so that he would cherish it.

 

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

I also don't get the love for Mankins. Between his holdout, the comments he made about Kraft, his decision to not take the paycut, and the MacMullan article where he is still bitter and obviously hinting at being the one taking the "higher road" by not saying "other things", fuck him.

Moss for sure. Welker, yeah.

 
Mankins tore his ACL in the opening game of the 2011 season and played every game that season.  And according to the Jackie Mac article he did say he was willing to take a pay cut, just not one as large as Belichick wanted.  He was tough guy who always stuck up for his teammates during a scuffle and was the first guy to back up Brady when somebody took a cheap shot.  I totally feel for Mankins.  

 

[Hoya81]

Would have been nice for Flutie to have gotten a ring.

 

[Freddy Linn]

Ever hear that expression that one awshit trumps ten attaboys? That's Welker with me (the pass that Collinsworth said he makes a thousand times out of a thousand). Funny, but for guys I wish could have won one, I think of Patriots guys before the dynasty, like Grogan, Hannah, Francis, Morgan, Bledsoe, Tippett. I know they couldn't have played Sunday but that's what I'd wish.

 
 

Bledsoe won a ring.

 
So did Russ Francis.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Bledsoe won a ring.

Of course, duh.
 

 
 
 
So did Russ Francis.

With another team I watched a lot. 

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

In the 10 years between Super Bowl victories, a lot of players have donned the Patriots uniform. There have been a lot of failed opportunities to grab that brass ring. Which of those players do you most feel for, in terms of missing out on getting a Super Bowl ring?

My own take:

Logan Mankins - OL stud for a good while, traded away just before this season began. Clearly misses NE, if this Jackie Mac story is anything to go by. http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=12119027&city=boston&src=desktop

 
Nice thread SSF. I was thinking about this the other day. My vote definitely goes to Mankins. He was -- and is -- still a blood, sweat, and tears type of a Patriot player to me.
 
He missed the SB years by a single year -- as a draftee in 2005 and getting traded in 2014. This man deserves a ring. 

 

[Van Everyman]

Sammy Morris is a sleeper. Had he stayed healthy in 2007 I'm convinced we win that Super Bowl.

 

[TheoShmeo]

 
Nomar got a ring.
 
And his former teammates went out of their way to make it so that he would cherish it.

Oh, I know.
 
But Grady's Boner prevented him from being a true part of a championship team.  Or said differently, to be integral to the team's on field success in October, standing on the field when the final out was made and in the locker room when the champagne was sprayed.
 
Back to the Pats, I feel that way about Junior Seau, Randy Moss and Wes Welker, too, like a lot of people, apparently.  But in the aftermath of Junior's death, it rings the strongest about him.

 

[Sille Skrub]

Moss, Junior and Ochocinco.

Moss the most though. Loved that guy. One clap.

 

[Toe Nash]

 
And according to the Jackie Mac article he did say he was willing to take a pay cut, just not one as large as Belichick wanted.  

Well, there's the rub then. Contrast his offseason with that of Wilfork.
 
As for standing up for cheap shots, well, he took just as many of his own. That's fine because that's football (on the o-line) but he wasn't exactly a saint out there.
 
I'll throw a vote for Brandon Spikes. I know there was animosity with BB and he was one-dimensional but I always liked him for some reason. 

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Ellis Hobbs

 

[Turrable]

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

 
Yup. LOL'd. 

 

[Jettisoned]

Tebow might have actually held on were he willing to change position or play special teams or something.
 
Aside from the obvious Moss and Welker, I'd liked to have seen BenJarvus Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead win one.  Loved both of those guys when they were on the Pats.

 

[Caspir]

Ellis Hobbs

Why did I assume he was on the team for the Philly bowl, great add. Loved Hobbs, he was a gamer, and I hated that he became a goat. Especially since he played with a torn labrum (?) in the SB. Him and Moss for me.

 

[JimD]

Moss, Seau, Woodhead.
 
F*** Welker - you want immortality, hang on to the ball.

 

[Marbleheader]

Moss, Seau, Woodhead.
 
F*** Welker - you want immortality, hang on to the ball.

Welker did a lot of great things here, and I realize the pass wasn't perfect. However, you've got to hold on to that.

 

[triniSox]

I can't bring myself to hate Welker. Guy played really hard for us always and was a fan favorite here. In 2007, his SB stats were great - maybe even MVP if we win. Yeah things ended badly - he got hurt and lashed out. Yeah he dropped a crucial catch but everyone's made mistakes and tbh that makes me feel for him even more.
 
What Welker did for this offense and for Brady, to me, is something that should be cherished. My hope is that people some day get over their hangups about Welker and celebrate him.

 

[johnmd20]

Agreed. Welker also came back from a torn ACL in like 3 weeks. Guy was an absolute gamer. And the infamous drop happened with 4 minutes to go and we were up 2. There was no guarantee we win even if he catches it, especially with that horrific defense.

 
First and 10 at the 24, with a 2 point lead and 4 minutes left. Instead, it was 3rd and 11 at the 44 with 4 minutes left. It wasn't game over there but it was close to it. It was a colossal drop.

 

[jsinger121]

Define "close to it". I believe the Giants had all their timeouts and the 2 minute warning. If they force a FG attempt, Eli would have had plenty of time to drive down the field. And he probably would have. It was definitely a big drop but it wouldn't have iced the game.

But if the Pats score a TD and take more time off the clock they win the game. It was a critical and unforgivable drop.

 

[johnmd20]

Define "close to it". I believe the Giants had all their timeouts and the 2 minute warning. If they force a FG attempt, Eli would have had plenty of time to drive down the field. And he probably would have. It was definitely a big drop but it wouldn't have iced the game.

 
Well, first off, they might have had to use their timeouts if the Pats got the first down. Or the game would have gone to the 2 minute warning. If Welker catches the ball, that's 35 seconds right there. Yeah, The Giants might have had time if they held the Pats to a FG but because of the drop, they had all the time in the world. Second, the Pats could have ended up scoring a TD and completely iced the game.
 
Close to it doesn't mean "iced the game" but it is much closer than 3rd and 11, in a passing situation, with 4 minutes left on the 44 yard line.

 

[Leather]

If the Patriots score a FG there, the Giants have to play for a TD.  Their playcalling becomes more predictable and easier to defend. 

 

[BoredViewer]

Bledsoe won a ring.

 
And remember, Bledsoe played most of the AFCCG vs. Pittsburgh and threw a TD.

 

[JimD]

Agree on all points. It was a bad drop and a catch would have greatly enhanced our chance at winning but I just can't support shitting on the man's entire Pats career because of it.

 
I'm not shitting on his entire Pats career either - it's just that I can't work up as much sympathy for him when he had the opportunity to make a huge play in the Super Bowl literally slip through his fingers.

 

[jsinger121]

Don't forget Welker also had a critical drop against Baltimore is the AFC championship game the following year.

 

[Marbleheader]

That one was a little more inexcuseable.  3rd quarter, another 3rd down play. Pats driving, still up 13-7 at the BAL 34, just out of FG range. Patriots have to punt, BAL then drives for a TD.All went to shit after that. Lost 28-13.
 

 

[Al Zarilla]

That one was a little more inexcuseable.  3rd quarter, another 3rd down play. Pats driving, still up 13-7 at the BAL 34, just out of FG range. Patriots have to punt, BAL then drives for a TD.All went to shit after that. Lost 28-13.
 

Any receiver can blow one badly now and then, but it's really nice that this year our receivers got them out of the way before the super bowl. Did the Pats have any dropped passes?

 

[Leather]

I think people soured on Welker for a couple of reasons, in addition to the butterfingers at a couple of bad moments.
 
1) As has been stated, his exit was less-than-graceful, and from what we learned afterwards was the result of a negotiation tactic on his part gone awry.  That he chose to use the Broncos as leverage, probably deliberately, erased some good will.   If he wanted to come back, he could have.  Instead he chose to try and call New England's bluff, and it backfired.  That being said, I think a lot of people in the media (and on certain fan boards) mis-stated what had actually occurred to the extent that Patriots fans conflated Welker's actions with people saying the Patriots made a mess of things.  
 
2) His pick play against Talib in the 2014 AFC Championship game was just the fucking icing on the cake, given that Talib's departure from the AFC game the year prior essentially ended it for the Patriots.  

 

[TheoShmeo]

It has been said that BB didn't like Welker.  I don't know if that's true.
 
If it is true, I find it to be surprising because, despite and other than the gratuitous and unPatriot-like, albeit funny, comments about Rex in the days before the 2010 divisional game, he seemed to be everything Belichick would want in a payer.  He was fearless, a warrior, accomplished, mutli-dimensional, trusted by Brady, and otherwise very similar to Edelman in many ways.
 
But for those fans who do assume that Bill had a problem with Wes, and that Bill didn't just fail to meet his price because he worried about the possibility of diminished performance over time, I think the trust people have in Bill plays a part in their view of Welker.
 
I'm still a huge Welker fan and Bill's take on him doesn't move the needle for me, but I have to admit that those two drops are hard to ignore.  There are plenty of excuses and caveats -- the throw in Glendale was a bit off, all receivers drop balls, he did so much else well, etc. -- but in the end they both fairly can be viewed as huge missed opportunities in the biggest of games.  Especially the former, which really seemed to take the air out of the stadium for the Pats (truly, no pun intended).  I know there are no guaranties, as the Seahawks just learned, but I really like the Pats' chances of winning SB 46 if Wes comes down with that ball. 
 
And for that reason, of the players who I feel for the most, after thinking about it some more, I would have to rank Welker behind Moss, Seau and Mankins.  
 
Last, I feel a bit badly for Moss in that after he shot himself out of town, he realized his mistake and asked back in on several occasions, only to be rebuffed.  I don't blame Bill at all for not taking him back.  But it has to be particularly painful to know that you caused your own exit and never were taken up on your efforts to give it another go. 

 

[tims4wins]

Regarding BB's relationship with Welker, I will never forget the "way to compete" line after the Wally Pipp comment. BB must have hated it when Welker said Edelman could have the punt returner job. You think Edelman would ever say something like that? Fucking warrior.

 

[Super Nomario]

Regarding BB's relationship with Welker, I will never forget the "way to compete" line after the Wally Pipp comment. BB must have hated it when Welker said Edelman could have the punt returner job. You think Edelman would ever say something like that? Fucking warrior.

Welker's a warrior, too. He's been the smallest guy in the field almost every play of his entire career, and he's taken as many shots as anybody. He missed just three games in his Patriots career. It's a bummer he had a couple bad plays on big stages, but I don't question his toughness or competitiveness for a second.

 

[rodderick]

Welker's a warrior, too. He's been the smallest guy in the field almost every play of his entire career, and he's taken as many shots as anybody. He missed just three games in his Patriots career. It's a bummer he had a couple bad plays on big stages, but I don't question his toughness or competitiveness for a second.

 
Yeah, and I got the clear impression Belichick was just ribbing him with that comment. Really wouldn't extrapolate anything from that snippet. 

 

[Reardon's Beard]

Welker was a brat and that's why coach didn't like him as much as some of the other guys. That's just my take, but I think it's close enough for government work.
 
Mankins all the way. Goddamn shame he couldn't be here for this.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

My short list & order:

1. Mankins: played hurt, played tough, no-nonsense, nasty guard, ready to to punch a DL/LB in the mouth if he got anywhere near Brady (that shit McPhee pulled during AFCCG would have started a brawl, led by Mankins and I have no doubt about that)
2. Welker: sure those drops hurt. Yeah he was a punk (but I loved it as an antidote of sorts). But he was -- for a number of years -- the best and surest weapon Brady could have. He also played hurt and played his guts out on each play. I still remember him balling when he tore his ACL in week 17 on that abominable Houston grass.

Loved Moss to death but like Woodhead, didn't play long enough for me. Same with guys like Sammy Morris. Closest on defense is Hobbs. Still remember the gut-punching kick-return for a TD at Meadowlands in 2007, Moss' first year & first game. 
 
P.S. On the coaching side, Billy O'. Started in 2007 as an assistant, worked his way up to OC in 2011 before going to Penn State. We all remember this little exchange:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wYcMnxkc0o

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

I love Billy O. And so does TB12.

 

[Turrable]

 

[cshea]

Define "close to it". I believe the Giants had all their timeouts and the 2 minute warning. If they force a FG attempt, Eli would have had plenty of time to drive down the field. And he probably would have. It was definitely a big drop but it wouldn't have iced the game.

Giants only had 1 timeout left.

 

[crystalline]

I love love love Welker as a Pat and I mostly don't care about his Denver career, but that hit he put on Talib was bad. The guy is known for having a bad hip so a WR comes on a crossing route and hits him hard on the hip. Especially because it had such a big impact on the outcome. Fairly or not that took him down a few notches in my eyes.

I wish he'd retire this year and get inducted into the Pats hall of fame soonish.

 

[BroodsSexton]

Moss interviewed Brady for Fox this year and it was great.

 
 

http://youtu.be/BHvPQu2QczM

 
The soft lighting and makeout music made it unwatchable for me.  YMMV.

 

[SoxVindaloo]

I can't bring myself to hate Welker. Guy played really hard for us always and was a fan favorite here. In 2007, his SB stats were great - maybe even MVP if we win. Yeah things ended badly - he got hurt and lashed out. Yeah he dropped a crucial catch but everyone's made mistakes and tbh that makes me feel for him even more.
 
What Welker did for this offense and for Brady, to me, is something that should be cherished. My hope is that people some day get over their hangups about Welker and celebrate him.

I can't hate Welker, he did so much for us and took so many big hits, but the DROP is enough to bump him off the perch of "he deserves a ring more than anyone." I would go with Mankins and Moss, with Moss being 2nd only because he shot his way out of town.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

For me it's Danny Woodhead.  He always struck me as a self made player that seized opportunities when he could.  There is something redeeming about guys like that, that don't fit the mold that have to maybe earn their way into the league more then other players winning a ring.

 

[MainerInExile]

I agree BB probably doesn't much like Welker.
 
But, I don't think it much matters.  BB has admitted that it's not realistic that you're going to like 53 guys.  And BB didn't like Matt Light, either, he called it a love-hate relationship.

 

[Turrable]

But actually
 

 

[crystalline]

For me it's Danny Woodhead.  He always struck me as a self made player that seized opportunities when he could.  There is something redeeming about guys like that, that don't fit the mold that have to maybe earn their way into the league more then other players winning a ring.

Welker is one of those guys too. If not for Belichick and Brady and a hell of a lot of hard work to earn his spot, he's probably mouldering away somewhere in Florida right now.