Thompson to Atlanta for Dunn+Fernando and 2023 2nd

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,204
The part of this or any future roster move that is most intriguing isn't necessarily the players involved. Its how much input Udoka has in these deals.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,111
Santa Monica
I’d much rather have Delon Wright.
yep, me too.

TT+ for Delon Wright was mentioned around here about a zillion times. It was even mentioned last night on the draft thread when the Kings drafted Michell and they were stuck with Hield (Lakers deal fell through)

if the $3MM helps sign Fournier and the TPE is used for another player I guess that's OK

I always like Fernando when he played at Maryland
 

osori

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 8, 2009
2,302
Dunn is a fringe player but the TPE refreshing and TT removal is nice. I hated TT since a few games into the season and am so happy he is gone.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,403
around the way
I was just coming to make sure that BaynesHogan was ok after TT getting sent out and Wright going somewhere not here in the same deal. Good to see everyone waiting until the other shoes drop.

TBS is in the house.
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
8,157
I'm just thankful we didn't have to staple a pick to him to get rid of TT. If he can play defense at the point, that seems like a useful piece.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,111
Santa Monica
Perhaps Brad Stevens isn't as high on Deion Wright as the Port Cellar is.
$3MM savings + $9.7MM TPE good for 12mths + a 2nd for Tristan Thompson in addition to youngish, vet help for the deep bench is a very good deal by Brad.

Delon would have been an excellent rotation piece and helped on both sides of the ball. But that's way too much financial flexibility for Brad to turn away

I was just coming to make sure that BaynesHogan was ok after TT getting sent out and Wright going somewhere not here in the same deal. Good to see everyone waiting until the other shoes drop.

TBS is in the house.
If he does something positive with that extra $$$ he will have earned TBS
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,482
$3MM savings + $9.7MM TPE good for 12mths + a 2nd for Tristan Thompson in addition to youngish, vet help for the deep bench is a very good deal by Brad.

Delon would have been an excellent rotation piece and helped on both sides of the ball. But that's way too much financial flexibility for Brad to turn away
You're taking this better than I would have thought.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,457
Perhaps Brad Stevens isn't as high on Deion Wright as the Port Cellar is.
Could be, might also be that they have a plan that the money makes a difference for. Clear about $3M with this deal, can clear another 2-3.5M by releasing Parker and/or Brown.

If you release Parker, you're at 13 men on the roster and $19,637,389 under the apron. That gives you options... you could sign a big RFA through a S&T and let Fournier walk. You could re-sign Fournier, and depending what the first year is on that deal have a shot to move salary (likely Dunn) and get the full MLE.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,482

ifmanis5

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2007
63,740
Rotten Apple
Increasing roster flexibility and cap space is good. Also shines a light on how awful the TT and Teague pickups were.
I don't follow Sacto's strategy here but maybe there is more to come with them.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,457
I wonder if they'd be looking to clear his salary or actually acquire a player.

Starting to think a big move is coming. How do we get Lonzo Ball to Boston?
You do a double S&T with Fournier or you trade Smart.
Might be what they do, but I think on both fronts you're hardcapping yourself for at best a modest upgrade.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,111
Santa Monica
Increasing roster flexibility and cap space is good. Also shines a light on how awful the TT and Teague pickups were.
I don't follow Sacto's strategy here but maybe there is more to come with them.
Kings have no 5s (Holmes and Whiteside FA). They drafted Davion Mitchell last night, tried to trade Hield's anchor contract (failed) and have Fox/Halliburton in the backcourt.

Delon was the odd man out
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
You do a double S&T with Fournier or you trade Smart.
Might be what they do, but I think on both fronts you're hardcapping yourself for at best a modest upgrade.
I'm not really a cap guy. How does hardcapping impact all the tpes and other exceptions? If it doesn't, I'd say it largely depends what else they do.

Unless Ball really does get the max, I'd rather have him going forward than Smart of Fournier.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,457
I'm not really a cap guy. How does hardcapping impact all the tpes and other exceptions? If it doesn't, I'd say it largely depends what else they do.

Unless Ball really does get the max, I'd rather have him going forward than Smart of Fournier.
If you are hardcapped you cannot go over the apron ($143M this year) under any circumstances. That includes using exceptions, trades, incentives, signing guys at the league min etc. (so really the number I'm using might be slightly off because depending on how the incentives are calculated they may have to leave room for Brown's All-Star and the like).
You don't lose the TPE (though all but the new TT one will expire before you get out of hard cap. you wouldn't be able to use the MLE because no room.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
6,410
I'm not really a cap guy. How does hardcapping impact all the tpes and other exceptions? If it doesn't, I'd say it largely depends what else they do.

Unless Ball really does get the max, I'd rather have him going forward than Smart of Fournier.
Hard cap means you can't go over it with any exceptions. It is at $143 million plus change. Regular cap is $112.5, luxury tax line is $136.5.
 

DourDoerr

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 15, 2004
2,937
Berkeley, CA
I believe he prefers to be referred to as PBS.
C’s should really have a tote bag night this year.

So far, Brad’s doing a nice job on the margins and seems to have a good grasp of the financials. Methodically positioning himself for better flexibility shows he’s a planner too. Very exciting for the future.
 
Last edited:

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,457
Well the Lonzo dream was shortlived, seems like the Richardson deal would all but kill it.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
ha. It feels like something bigger is going on. Can't really complain, nice job getting value out of Tristan

Brad is getting Dejounte or Ball!
He’s getting Beal, he created the cap space to sign him next summer, which is going to dampen the acquisition cost. No one’s going to make a godfather offer with the Celtics looming on the sidelines.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
He’s getting Beal, he created the cap space to sign him next summer, which is going to dampen the acquisition cost. No one’s going to make a godfather offer with the Celtics looming on the sidelines.
There were rumors Beal was going to stay with Washington for the year, too.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,111
Santa Monica
He’s getting Beal, he created the cap space to sign him next summer, which is going to dampen the acquisition cost. No one’s going to make a godfather offer with the Celtics looming on the sidelines.
If Beal in free agency is the game plan, what do they do with Romeo, Marcus, TL? All gone?
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
4,700
Saint Paul, MN
If Beal in free agency is the game plan, what do they do with Romeo, Marcus, TL? All gone?
Romeo has a club option for 5.6 million. Can't imagine he is gone. Smart has the huge cap hold of 21.6 mill. TL cap hold is only 11 mill.

Someone more versed in cap can explain better, but I think they for sure would need to let Smart go (unless they find someone to take Horford), but should be able to keep Romeo and TL and have the space for a max offer to Beal
 

JM3

often quoted
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
14,279
For Sure
Tatum $30.3m
Jaylen $28.7m

Probably
Langford $5.6m
Nesmith $3.8m
Pritchard $2.2m

That makes $70.6m. Cap is projected at $115m so that leaves about $45m.

Beal max seems like it starts right around $40m, so there's only $5m of wiggle room there. So would have to renounce TL/Smart/JRich/etc.

Horford would 100% need to be absorbed by someone. It's only a partially guaranteed year, so might not be that expensive to slough him off.

I'm a bit confused if we actually dumped Grant & Edwards, but we also wouldn't pick up their options if they're still around.

Moses costs like $1.4m if we want him sticking around.

Alternatively, could keep TL's hold & dump Langford & it would be at least super close.

It looks to me though, that if Beal really plans to go to Boston, he would want to get the 5 years from the Wizards so they could probably work something out to get the extra pieces.

I'm half asleep, don't feel well, & doubt this post makes sense, but que sera sera.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,111
Santa Monica
Romeo has a club option for 5.6 million. Can't imagine he is gone. Smart has the huge cap hold of 21.6 mill. TL cap hold is only 11 mill.

Someone more versed in cap can explain better, but I think they for sure would need to let Smart go (unless they find someone to take Horford), but should be able to keep Romeo and TL and have the space for a max offer to Beal
I'm not more versed but here is a quick explanation of the "cap hold" (TL) and "renouncing the rights" (Smart) for FA/RFA. Don't think they could keep either Smart/TL.

A cap hold is the amount of space a free agent counts towards a team's cap. These “cap holds” factor in when a team signs free agents. If they didn't exist, a team could use their cap space to sign other free agents until the space was gone, and then re-sign their own free agents using the Bird exception

The general purpose of a cap hold is to prevent teams from using room under the cap to sign free agents before using Bird rights to re-sign their own free agents. If a team wants to take advantage of its cap space, it can renounce the rights to its own free agents, eliminating those cap holds
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,457
My eyeballing it is that Marcus has to go, same with Richardson, but if you could find someone to eat Horford's deal you could probably just manage to hold onto TL.
The other option is to try to work out a S&T.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
If Beal in free agency is the game plan, what do they do with Romeo, Marcus, TL? All gone?
No, Boston’s ability to sign Beal in free agency is going to drive down the acquisition cost. If you’re Miami or Golden State do you bet the house on Beal knowing that he has an easy path to teaming up with his long time friend next summer? And Boston has just built up a bunch of medium sized contracts to use in trade for him.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2006
7,873
SS Botany Bay
No, Boston’s ability to sign Beal in free agency is going to drive down the acquisition cost. If you’re Miami or Golden State do you bet the house on Beal knowing that he has an easy path to teaming up with his long time friend next summer? And Boston has just built up a bunch of medium sized contracts to use in trade for him.
As a Boston fan, it feels nice to be on the other side of thinking about a star player's team-up scenario.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
11,996
No, Boston’s ability to sign Beal in free agency is going to drive down the acquisition cost. If you’re Miami or Golden State do you bet the house on Beal knowing that he has an easy path to teaming up with his long time friend next summer? And Boston has just built up a bunch of medium sized contracts to use in trade for him.
Yeah, you're bluffing to lower the price in that scenario. If called by Wash, your fallback is Beal+Brown+Tatum+flotsam, which is still pretty workable.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
As a Boston fan, it feels nice to be on the other side of thinking about a star player's team-up scenario.
I mean you can just watch the moves since Stevens's ascension and see the plan. He got input from Marcus & the Jay Crew about who they wanted in the head coaching slot, aggressively pursued/signed their choice, and then set about freeing up max space next summer and accumulating the contracts necessary to make a deal this upcoming year. His three core guys are going to (presumably) like playing for their new coach, and every time JayTay and Beal talk it's all going to be about teaming up in Boston (rather than someplace else).

Every day that goes by without a trade just lowers Beal's value around the league. Sooner or later you're going to see Boston make one of those all-in pick offers to pry Beal out of DC and the Zardoz are going to take the offer.
 

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,083
I mean you can just watch the moves since Stevens's ascension and see the plan. He got input from Marcus & the Jay Crew about who they wanted in the head coaching slot, aggressively pursued/signed their choice, and then set about freeing up max space next summer and accumulating the contracts necessary to make a deal this upcoming year. His three core guys are going to (presumably) like playing for their new coach, and every time JayTay and Beal talk it's all going to be about teaming up in Boston (rather than someplace else).

Every day that goes by without a trade just lowers Beal's value around the league. Sooner or later you're going to see Boston make one of those all-in pick offers to pry Beal out of DC and the Zardoz are going to take the offer.
I like this post and I am curious about what you think PBS will do with Smart. Extend him and trade him next off-season to make room for Beal, let him play out his contract and leave next season, or something else? I don’t know much about the cap but it seems unlikely that Tatum, Brown, Beal and Smart can all stick together.
 
Last edited:

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
I like this post and I am curious about what you think PBS will do with Smart. Extend him and trade him next off-season to make room for Beal, let him play out his contract and leave next season, or something else? I don’t know much about the cap but it seems unlikely that Tatum, Brown, Beal and Smart can all stick together.
It depends on when Beal gets traded. Right now Boston won't be monkeying with next summer's cap space. As long as Beal has a clear path to teaming up with Tatum next summer no one's pushing all their chips in to the middle of the table for him. So if the Wizards face reality early, then you'll see extensions for Smart and/or Timelord (depending on whether or not they're still here). But if Washington holds out hope then those extensions are going to be delayed.
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
8,157
Beal is obviously a very good player, but are we sure he's really a great fit next to Tatum and Brown? Beal is a pretty iso-heavy player - combined with Tatum I'm a little fearful the team would be dreadfully boring (unless of course they are winning all the time).