Thompson to Atlanta for Dunn+Fernando and 2023 2nd

Auger34

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I didn't think they were. I was just noting that he has few fans among people who cover teams, but he's almost universally very well liked among players
I think the people who cover the teams are getting the information directly from the team.

And if you read these quotes, there are enough of them now that it’s hard to think everyones just completely making it up, you can see why.

On a team with a lot of young players, it’s definitely not good to have a veteran basically saying none of this matters and you only need to try at certain points and let’s of the season. That mindset works with LeBron or with players who have already been through the wars and built up their habits…..definitely not good for a roster like the Celtics last year
 

benhogan

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I think the compelling package is a bevy of draft picks. I think what they’re really about is accumulating enough salary to make a deal without touching any of their core 3 or Al. If they could acquire a $13-$14 million dollar expiring deal in the Thompson trade the outgoing salary for Beal could be made up between that, Richardson, and one of Langford/Nesmith. Meaning that Boston would be an instant contender as the other two guys on the floor would be defensive oriented Swiss Army knife guys.
Yea I think you nailed the Celtics approach to trade for Beal. Put doubt in Beal re-signing across the NBA, without BB/Agent going AD nuclear.

if Brad can pull this off, keep a bunch of swiss army knives around the new BEALtles then the C's become a top 4 championship contender for '22 and prohibitive favorites beyond.
 
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Jimbodandy

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around the way
I think the people who cover the teams are getting the information directly from the team.

And if you read these quotes, there are enough of them now that it’s hard to think everyones just completely making it up, you can see why.

On a team with a lot of young players, it’s definitely not good to have a veteran basically saying none of this matters and you only need to try at certain points and let’s of the season. That mindset works with LeBron or with players who have already been through the wars and built up their habits…..definitely not good for a roster like the Celtics last year
Yeah we don't know anything of course.

Guys defending TT directly on the record is a datum. But that doesn't mean that there isn't anything to the rumors. Some players and coaches just don't throw each other under the bus in public.
 

nighthob

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Is Smart the 3rd piece? Also, I would gladly ship off Horford if that salary is necessary
Yes, when your team is built around two apex scorers and a third scorer you really need Swiss Army Knife guys around them. And while I'm sure that Stevens would also trade both Marcus and Al if that's what it took to get Beal, he's clearly trying to create a scenario where he doesn't have to.
 

128

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Still no confirmation that this deal, or some version of it, is still on.
 

128

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it wouldn't be able to be finalized until 8/6 anyway, so not sure why there would be any update now
True, but it's a little unusual that reports on the (alleged) deal surfaced a couple days ago, with no further details since.
 

Cellar-Door

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True, but it's a little unusual that reports on the (alleged) deal surfaced a couple days ago, with no further details since.
Yeah, my guess is they planned to get it done before year flipped, then decided to leave it open, not it's just going to sit there until something changes. All 3 teams probably happy to leave it there agreed so they can dip into it to move pieces to a 4th team if they need to (most likely BOS since they don't really care about the players)
 

benhogan

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Atlanta did some great work this Summer and could see them as players for Beal/Simmons at the trade deadline. The Hawks (Heat/Bulls also in the running) are the only teams that had a better offseason than the Celtics IMO

1. signed Collins at $25MM/yr, well under the MAX (many of us got that wrong incl myself)
2. drafted Jalen Johnson/Cooper, nice upside picks
3. added adv metrics darling, Delon Wright, for flotsam & jetsam (Dunn/Fernando/2nd)
4. re-signed Lou Will on a cheap deal ($5MM)
5. added cheap 5 beef depth in Dieng ($4MM)
6. signed vet coach Nate McMillan to 3yr deal

They have the salaries, young talent, picks to move ahead of the Warriors & Celtics in the Simmons or Beal trade deadline sweepstakes.

Here is their roster:
1. Trae Young
2. John Collins
3. Bogdon Bogdanovic
4. Danilo Gallinari
5. Clint Capela
6. Kevin Huerter
7. De'Andre Hunter
8. Lou Williams
9. Cam Reddish
10. Delon Wright
11. Onyeka Okongwu (injured/surgery out until '22 All-Star break)
12. Solomon Hill
13. Georges Dieng
14. Jalen Johnson
15. Sharif Cooper
Skyler Mays?
Brandon Goodwin?

That's a lot of young controlled talent that could be combined in a bigger deal.
 
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The Hawks (Heat/Bulls also in the running) are the only teams that had a better offseason than the Celtics IMO
I'm very excited about the Hawks' direction of travel and think they had a very quietly good offseason...but are you saying that the Celtics had the fourth best offseason of any team in the NBA? Given how little they did? That feels like a stretch to me. (I'm not down on the Celtics, but to me they certainly don't seem to have noticeably improved.)
 

Euclis20

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I'm very excited about the Hawks' direction of travel and think they had a very quietly good offseason...but are you saying that the Celtics had the fourth best offseason of any team in the NBA? Given how little they did? That feels like a stretch to me. (I'm not down on the Celtics, but to me they certainly don't seem to have noticeably improved.)
Yeah, I'm cautiously optimistic with the Celtics' offseason and like the direction they took (got more flexible cap-wise, switched the focus in a couple of rotation spots from offense to defense, and added decent vet depth), but the real path to improvement is going to be continued growth from the young guys (not an unreasonable assumption, given that among playoff teams only Memphis had a younger roster) and better injury/covid luck (also not unreasonable given that the Celtics were by far the hardest hit by covid and by the end of the playoffs, 3/5 of their starting lineup was out with injuries).

They didn't stand pat and they didn't panic and sign bad contracts, but that's not enough to say they had one of the best offseasons in the league. Not for a .500 team anyway.
 

benhogan

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I'm very excited about the Hawks' direction of travel and think they had a very quietly good offseason...but are you saying that the Celtics had the fourth best offseason of any team in the NBA? Given how little they did? That feels like a stretch to me. (I'm not down on the Celtics, but to me they certainly don't seem to have noticeably improved.)
1. Moving Kemba/Tristan at min cost/flex are huge, I was down on them as much as anybody around here
2. I have an irrational love for Horford. He's strictly a 5, but adds to the Jays by not be a lane clogging Center
3. Schroder addressed a huge need on the very cheap. Top 5 value signing of the offseason (after Collins)
4. J Rich for Moses Brown is a nice deal. Do wish they kept MB and shipped Fernando but that's a cointoss
5. Kanter is a very good 3rd string/situational 5 on a vet max deal. Regardless of his D
5. Adding a defensive/move the ball NEW voice in Ime was needed
6. They are set up to be trade deadline players for Beal or other unhappy Max player
7. Added a $9.8MM TPE for the next year, we saw quality rotational players added at the trade deadline last year for salary space (Fournier/Theis).
8. I'd much rather have Delon Wright than Dunn/Fernando, but can see the Zaren approach to adding a 2nd + TPE here
9. Madar-Begarin overseas marination/2-way Hauser/getting rid of Tremont Water are all small wins
10. Wouldn't be shocked if they brought back Tacko on a 2-way, which would be fine in my book (sure I'll get pushback here)

All under-the-radar moves that NBA mainstream media ignores, but this team is better, more flexible, and prepared to contend for multiple Championships in 2023 and beyond.
 

JM3

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It depends on what kind of curve you grade teams on. Considering what they had to work with, I think the Celtics did great. In terms of actual improvement for this season? Less great.

Whereas the Bulls improved their team a ton, but made basically the worst transaction of the off-season with the Derozan s+t.
 

benhogan

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I'm very excited about the Hawks' direction of travel and think they had a very quietly good offseason...but are you saying that the Celtics had the fourth best offseason of any team in the NBA? Given how little they did? That feels like a stretch to me. (I'm not down on the Celtics, but to me they certainly don't seem to have noticeably improved.)
are there any rumors of the Hawks going after Beal or Simmons?

What's ATL draft stash like?
 

JM3

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The 1st site I found with free agency team grades was Hoops Hype, but couldn't find anything more recent which would include Schröder. Not much else has happened in last 6 days, though, but that would definitely be a bump to Celtics.

A: Wizards
A-: Hawks, Knicks
B+: Nets, Clippers, Heat, Bucks, Suns, Jazz
B: Hornets, Pistons, Rockets, Grizzlies, Thunder, Blazers, Spurs
B-: Celtics, Bulls, Nugs, Warriors, Pacers, Kings, Raptors
C+: Mavs, Wolves, Magic
C: 76ers
C-: Cavs
D+: Lakers, Pels

They seem addicted to giving good teams which didn't do much B+ grades.

Oh, & they hate Russell Westbrook.
 
are there any rumors of the Hawks going after Beal or Simmons?
None that I've seen or heard. But the Hawks are certainly geared up to make a move like this if Schlenk wants to make one. (TITS.)
What's ATL draft stash like?
We've got all of our first-rounders going forward and a handful of extra second-rounders, plus OKC's 1st round pick next year if it falls outside the Top 14 (as if).
 

benhogan

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The 1st site I found with free agency team grades was Hoops Hype, but couldn't find anything more recent which would include Schröder. Not much else has happened in last 6 days, though, but that would definitely be a bump to Celtics.

A: Wizards
A-: Hawks, Knicks
B+: Nets, Clippers, Heat, Bucks, Suns, Jazz
B: Hornets, Pistons, Rockets, Grizzlies, Thunder, Blazers, Spurs
B-: Celtics, Bulls, Nugs, Warriors, Pacers, Kings, Raptors
C+: Mavs, Wolves, Magic
C: 76ers
C-: Cavs
D+: Lakers, Pels

They seem addicted to giving good teams which didn't do much B+ grades.

Oh, & they hate Russell Westbrook.
Schroder's penetrating skills (w/out the defensive deficiency & availability) will be a huge boost for the Jays. I see Zaren's fingerprints all over this offseason. Danny got so reactionary over the last 2 offseasons after the Kyrie debacle. Numerous NBA mainstream media PR driven moves IMO

Wizards an A? Westbrook bashing at its finest. I'm not a Dinwiddie fan. Lost their veteran coach. Beal will be moved by the trade deadline from those burning embers. Bottom 5 team this year.
Knicks A-? Kemba on the cheap is ok. Fournier was a nice signing. I wouldn't put them at the Hawk's level of offseason.
Clippers B+? They will be lost without Kawhi. I could see them having a rough season
Bucks did great by bringing Portis back on the cheap & changing his rep that alone gives them a B+

None that I've seen or heard. But the Hawks are certainly geared up to make a move like this if Schlenk wants to make one. (TITS.)

We've got all of our first-rounders going forward and a handful of extra second-rounders, plus OKC's 1st round pick next year if it falls outside the Top 14 (as if).
Thanks. Congrats, your team is going in a great direction.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Atlanta did some great work this Summer and could see them as players for Beal/Simmons at the trade deadline. The Hawks (Heat/Bulls also in the running) are the only teams that had a better offseason than the Celtics IMO

1. signed Collins at $25MM/yr, well under the MAX (many of us got that wrong incl myself)
2. drafted Jalen Johnson/Cooper, nice upside picks
3. added adv metrics darling, Delon Wright, for flotsam & jetsam (Dunn/Fernando/2nd)
4. re-signed Lou Will on a cheap deal ($5MM)
5. added cheap 5 beef depth in Dieng ($4MM)
6. signed vet coach Nate McMillan to 3yr deal

They have the salaries, young talent, picks to move ahead of the Warriors & Celtics in the Simmons or Beal trade deadline sweepstakes.

Here is their roster:
1. Trae Young
2. John Collins
3. Bogdon Bogdanovic
4. Danilo Gallinari
5. Clint Capela
6. Kevin Huerter
7. De'Andre Hunter
8. Lou Williams
9. Cam Reddish
10. Delon Wright
11. Onyeka Okongwu (injured/surgery out until '22 All-Star break)
12. Solomon Hill
13. Georges Dieng
14. Jalen Johnson
15. Sharif Cooper
Skyler Mays?
Brandon Goodwin?

That's a lot of young controlled talent that could be combined in a bigger deal.
I dunno. I mean ATL did as well as I could I suppose but they are giving me vibes of a team that will max out as the third team and a middle-round exit in the playoffs. I guess the biggest question is whether Trae Young can be the best player on a championship team.

Plus, with Trae's extension and Huerter's coming extension and the re-signing of Collins, they don't have a ton of cap flexibility anymore and may have to jettison one of their vets. https://soaringdownsouth.com/2021/07/09/atlanta-hawks-fans-going-love-trae-young-bobblehead/
 

Imbricus

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1. Moving Kemba/Tristan at min cost/flex are huge, I was down on them as much as anybody around here
2. I have an irrational love for Horford. He's strictly a 5, but adds to the Jays by not be a lane clogging Center
3. Schroder addressed a huge need on the very cheap. Top 5 value signing of the offseason (after Collins)
4. J Rich for Moses Brown is a nice deal. Do wish they kept MB and shipped Fernando but that's a cointoss
5. Kanter is a very good 3rd string/situational 5 on a vet max deal. Regardless of his D
5. Adding a defensive/move the ball NEW voice in Ime was needed
6. They are set up to be trade deadline players for Beal or other unhappy Max player
7. Added a $9.8MM TPE for the next year, we saw quality rotational players added at the trade deadline last year for salary space (Fournier/Theis).
8. I'd much rather have Delon Wright than Dunn/Fernando, but can see the Zaren approach to adding a 2nd + TPE here
9. Madar-Begarin overseas marination/2-way Hauser/getting rid of Tremont Water are all small wins
10. Wouldn't be shocked if they brought back Tacko on a 2-way, which would be fine in my book (sure I'll get pushback here)

All under-the-radar moves that NBA mainstream media ignores, but this team is better, more flexible, and prepared to contend for multiple Championships in 2023 and beyond.
Interesting ... agree with sentiment about keeping Moses and shipping Fernando, but Celts may see Bruno as a little farther along, developmentally, and having the better chance of developing a decent shot. As for Tacko, I'm a big Tacko fan, but I'm starting to get dubious about him being anything more than a nice, kind of awkward, gentle giant. Still, if Ime committed to trying to practice a defense (zone, zone, zone) where he might succeed, I'd be willing to give him another year.

I think the reason people tend to underrate the Celtics' offseason is because (1) they didn't really do anything splashy, like land a Westbrook or even Derozan (2) I happen to agree that Horford changes the equation significantly, but a lot of people probably look at that and go, "Meh, he's over the hill" (3) what the Celtics really did so well was set themselves up for future success, and make some smart moves around the edges, and no one's going to give you a great grade for that. Or, as you say, "under-the-radar moves" that are ignored by NBA beat writers.
 

Rustjive

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They didn't stand pat and they didn't panic and sign bad contracts, but that's not enough to say they had one of the best offseasons in the league. Not for a .500 team anyway.
There are a bunch of ways to evaluate off-seasons because there is not one singular goal for the off-season that applies to all organizations. 'Make the organization better' comes with caveats as to when, and for how much, and to what degree. 'Win a championship' has teams at different places on the path towards that goal - some teams aren't even on the path, they have to find their way back to the path.

Hollinger on the Athletic rated the Celtics as one of the top 5 off-seasons: Nets, Wizards, Celtics, Bucks, Spurs. His list of the bottom 6 was Toronto, New Orleans, Chicago, Minnesota, Portland and Utah.

The things that seemed to matter to him were, in no particular order:
- Activity (Minnesota did almost nothing)
- Impact (Portland, they re-signed Powell, signed 3 minimum vets, didn't use their MLE as a team that's stuck in 1st/2nd round purgatory with a star that's itching to get better or get out)
- Flexibility (Wizards moves opened up their future moves possibilities even if you think they didn't really change their salary situation or their on-court product very much)
- Value (Chicago, he thinks DeRozan is a gross overpay, Toronto he thinks that the contracts they gave Gary Trent Jr./Khem Birch makes no sense)
- Big Picture (Boston's roster makes more sense, they cleared up their cap situation and can be a cap-room team for 2022)

I think where you stand on Chicago reveals a lot about how you evaluate off-seasons. I've seen a lot of commentary about how Chicago made big moves in Ball and DeRozan, they're a team that got substantially better. At the same time, they're a team that traded away a star in Butler partly because they didn't want to be locked in purgatory, started rebuilding, got a new star in LaVine, and now they're fully committed salary-wise to be...locked in purgatory? What's the ceiling for this Chicago team? The 4th seed?
 

radsoxfan

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Atlanta did some great work this Summer and could see them as players for Beal/Simmons at the trade deadline. The Hawks (Heat/Bulls also in the running) are the only teams that had a better offseason than the Celtics IMO
Trae and Beal would be quite the interesting backcourt, that's for sure. Not sure how well that would work, especially on D.

Hard to like the Bulls moves too much with that grotesque DeRozan trade/signing.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think the reason people tend to underrate the Celtics' offseason is because (1) they didn't really do anything splashy, like land a Westbrook or even Derozan (2) I happen to agree that Horford changes the equation significantly, but a lot of people probably look at that and go, "Meh, he's over the hill" (3) what the Celtics really did so well was set themselves up for future success, and make some smart moves around the edges, and no one's going to give you a great grade for that. Or, as you say, "under-the-radar moves" that are ignored by NBA beat writers.
Maybe it isn’t “splashy” but I haven’t heard much nationally about the J-Rich pickup which may turn out to be among the best in the league if things turn right. The best part of Brad’s moves have been in the form of roster construction, depth, and no longer relying on youth to play key roles. It’s a major shift which has gone relatively unnoticed nationally.
 

benhogan

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Trae and Beal would be quite the interesting backcourt, that's for sure. Not sure how well that would work, especially on D.

Hard to like the Bulls moves too much with that grotesque DeRozan trade/signing.
I really liked the Ball move, at NOLA's expense. BUT DeRozan is a head-scratcher for sure. Guess it's an ALL-IN move with LaVine/Vucevic as their top 2 options and DeMar becomes their 3rd offensive option.
 

Imbricus

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The best part of Brad’s moves have been in the form of roster construction, depth, and no longer relying on youth to play key roles.
This is an excellent point, about getting more experienced players in the mix. Last year, the Celtics weren't the youngest team in the league, but I remember seeing a ranking once of the NBA's least-veteran teams (those with the least NBA experience), and they were No. 1. And too often it showed, especially in a weird Covid-marred season where they couldn't practice enough.
 

benhogan

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Interesting ... agree with sentiment about keeping Moses and shipping Fernando, but Celts may see Bruno as a little farther along, developmentally, and having the better chance of developing a decent shot. As for Tacko, I'm a big Tacko fan, but I'm starting to get dubious about him being anything more than a nice, kind of awkward, gentle giant. Still, if Ime committed to trying to practice a defense (zone, zone, zone) where he might succeed, I'd be willing to give him another year.

I think the reason people tend to underrate the Celtics' offseason is because (1) they didn't really do anything splashy, like land a Westbrook or even Derozan (2) I happen to agree that Horford changes the equation significantly, but a lot of people probably look at that and go, "Meh, he's over the hill" (3) what the Celtics really did so well was set themselves up for future success, and make some smart moves around the edges, and no one's going to give you a great grade for that. Or, as you say, "under-the-radar moves" that are ignored by NBA beat writers.
Ha, I have a strong affinity for Zone (Cuse bias) in small doses and thought Tacko could play a role there. BUT probably isn't happening.

The #1 thing the Celtics did was clearly state that this team is built around Tatum/Brown. All the silly Brown being traded rumors can end. Hopefully Smart takes the rumored extension offer and he doesn't have to be concerned with POINTZ to get paid. Would also like a cheap deal for TL. The C's offseason is still up in the air and could further improve.
 

Fishy1

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This is an excellent point, about getting more experienced players in the mix. Last year, the Celtics weren't the youngest team in the league, but I remember seeing a ranking once of the NBA's least-veteran teams (those with the least NBA experience), and they were No. 1. And too often it showed, especially in a weird Covid-marred season where they couldn't practice enough.
And according to the media, FWIW, TT, one of the only vets they had was insisting to the younger players that it wasn't worth playing hard during the regular season. Nevermind that he wasn't a good fit for the offense or the defense.

I love the guys they brought in, and think all of them are young enough and at points at their career where it's prove it or lose it. Schroder and J-Rich in particular are guys who I think can be much better than they showed last year and were not necessarily put in positions to succeed. As slashers and creators next to Tatum and Brown, I think they'll have the opportunity to really have bounce-back years.
 

nighthob

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Clippers B+? They will be lost without Kawhi. I could see them having a rough season
And if George gets injured for a significant stretch they’re lottery bound. Oh, wait, no, the Thunder are lottery bound with the Clippers pick.
 

Swedgin

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And if George gets injured for a significant stretch they’re lottery bound. Oh, wait, no, the Thunder are lottery bound with the Clippers pick.
While true (and also true of most teams if they lose their best two players to injury), what does that have to with grading the most recent offseason?

I think the B+'s were warranted. If a team avoids handing out any bad deals, and makes good use of the avenues available to them to add talent - what grade should they get?

The Clips brought back Reggie on reasonable deals, took a flyer on Winslow and got Batum for less than many thought he would command.

The Nets got Patty Mills at the taxpayer MLE. Hard to think of a better use of their MLE than Mills.

The Suns brought back Paul on what initially looked like a huge overpay, but with further reporting on guarantees is very reasonable.
They kept Cam Payne on what nearly everyone thinks is an undermarket deal and brought in Shamet.

The Bucks got Portis to come back on a bargain deal. Got the homeless man's version of Tucker in Semi for the minimum and took a flyer on Rodney Hood. Grayson Allen (while my not my favorite guy) was a good acquisition. I suppose you could quibble with letting Tucker leave when you had his bird rights, but I am on lower on him than most.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Interesting ... agree with sentiment about keeping Moses and shipping Fernando, but Celts may see Bruno as a little farther along, developmentally, and having the better chance of developing a decent shot.
Moses was shipped out instead of Fernando almost entirely because of salary. BOS wanted DAL to take something and Moses was pretty much the least they could take.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Trading a 1st for Shamet is pretty bad.
Paying multiple year guaranteed money to a 29th pick who in all likelihood won’t ever see the floor is arguably worse. Contenders commonly dump late 1st for this reason.
 

JM3

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Paying multiple year guaranteed money to a 29th pick who in all likelihood won’t ever see the floor is arguably worse. Contenders commonly dump late 1st for this reason.
Day'ron Sharpe, who the Nets picked with the 29th pick has a 4 year, $10.3m contract with $4.1m guaranteed & 2 team option years.

Shamet, who in 3 years has never had a positive offensive or defensive season, & who the Nets, are in a similar position to the Suns, decided to dump, makes $3.7m for 1 year & then would require a $5.6m QO.

You're taking away all the upside of the 1st round pick. Yes, Sarver has traditionally been an awful & cheap owner - that doesn't make this a good trade.