Thoughts/Impressions on “The Dynasty” Apple TV Series

Anthologos

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Jun 4, 2017
115
And he got busted again in 2019 for videotaping. I really don't care about Spygate, but there's a pattern and an irony here.

Belichick, the ultimate disciplinarian, had a disregard for the rules. Whether it's not wearing camo gear during Vet month or giving his name to a video game, he was always counterculture.

It tracks with his accumulation of power in Foxboro. Belichick wanted to tell people what to do, and hated the other way around.
this line of mewling is absurd. It’s no surprise that you are tired of “trying to outsmart people”, as you say in the Zappe thread—thinking is not your métier.

it shall inevitably be the season of BB-haters to whinge and complain now that “mean bad man gone”. That’s their right. But he didn’t hate to be challenged and he had a clear disregard not for rules, but for fools. Abrasive, harsh, demanding, exhausting, prickly…I believe all that to be true. But some people are acting as if he was a millstone around the team’s neck for decades. Imagine the success they could have had if only he had been more of a hugger, or worn more camo.

Change can be good…and is sometimes necessary. But the rush to pen a nasty epilogue to a tremendous if complex narrative just cheapens the whole, like a knock-knock joke at a eulogy.
 

Van Everyman

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this line of mewling is absurd. It’s no surprise that you are tired of “trying to outsmart people”, as you say in the Zappe thread—thinking is not your métier.

it shall inevitably be the season of BB-haters to whinge and complain now that “mean bad man gone”. That’s their right. But he didn’t hate to be challenged and he had a clear disregard not for rules, but for fools. Abrasive, harsh, demanding, exhausting, prickly…I believe all that to be true. But some people are acting as if he was a millstone around the team’s neck for decades. Imagine the success they could have had if only he had been more of a hugger, or worn more camo.

Change can be good…and is sometimes necessary. But the rush to pen a nasty epilogue to a tremendous if complex narrative just cheapens the whole, like a knock-knock joke at a eulogy.
Since you’re new here, I’d remind you to attack the post not the poster.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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And he got busted again in 2019 for videotaping. I really don't care about Spygate, but there's a pattern and an irony here.

Belichick, the ultimate disciplinarian, had a disregard for the rules. Whether it's not wearing camo gear during Vet month or giving his name to a video game, he was always counterculture.

It tracks with his accumulation of power in Foxboro. Belichick wanted to tell people what to do, and hated the other way around.
He doesn't wear the vet gear because he sees it (rightfully, IMO) of pandering to make a few bucks for the NFL. Their partnership with the military borders on gross. He isn't in the video games because he isn't in the coaches association. Not sure the reason, but I am not sure the video game has much of anything to do with it.
 

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,582
Boston
this line of mewling is absurd. It’s no surprise that you are tired of “trying to outsmart people”, as you say in the Zappe thread—thinking is not your métier.

it shall inevitably be the season of BB-haters to whinge and complain now that “mean bad man gone”. That’s their right. But he didn’t hate to be challenged and he had a clear disregard not for rules, but for fools. Abrasive, harsh, demanding, exhausting, prickly…I believe all that to be true. But some people are acting as if he was a millstone around the team’s neck for decades. Imagine the success they could have had if only he had been more of a hugger, or worn more camo.

Change can be good…and is sometimes necessary. But the rush to pen a nasty epilogue to a tremendous if complex narrative just cheapens the whole, like a knock-knock joke at a eulogy.
Those "fools" were the NFL. We lost first round draft picks.

I appreciate and love all the memories. The Belichick and Brady in my head are champions who delivered great memories. But I don't try to fit the square peg of the last five years into the round hole. The talent and coaching level simultaneously declined. Everybody sucks when your're 4-13.
 

Salva135

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Oct 19, 2008
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He doesn't wear the vet gear because he sees it (rightfully, IMO) of pandering to make a few bucks for the NFL. Their partnership with the military borders on gross. He isn't in the video games because he isn't in the coaches association. Not sure the reason, but I am not sure the video game has much of anything to do with it.
It's just another stupd little thing he did to be different. We all know his commitment to the armed services. But BB had to be different. His antisocial behavior is not some grandiose social commentary. BB is not operating on a level we don't understand. It's just who he is.
 
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Anthologos

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Jun 4, 2017
115
Since you’re new here, I’d remind you to attack the post not the poster.
i am not new here, but your point is well-taken. That line was cruel, albeit well-written.
I shall avoid such in future days.

edit: i see that I am new here after all. Thank you to whomever made me a member. Im unworthy. Been here since 2003, when I taxed the servers with everyone else during the A-rod drama days, sitting in an internet café…downloading Doo wop from napster-lite…and eating veggie dogs with bacon bits and cheez-whiz
 
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Anthologos

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Jun 4, 2017
115
Those "fools" were the NFL. We lost first round draft picks.

I appreciate and love all the memories. The Belichick and Brady in my head are champions who delivered great memories. But I don't try to fit the square peg of the last five years into the round hole. The talent and coaching level simultaneously declined. Everybody sucks when your're 4-13.
any and all dissatisfaction with the last few years—i would say two, not five, but fair minds can diverge—is not unjustified at all. BB made some very uncharacteristic mistakes, and made some very questionable decisions. For a lesser coach, these would lead to rapid dismissal—and no one would think twice. It is understandably alarming that someone with such unparalleled achievement fielded such a poor team.

my qualms lie with any effort to perceive these as endemic to the dynasty and as pointing to a twisted problem in the man. Some dread weakness that was papered over by mere winning, which of course was owing only to Tom Brady and some luck.

i havent seen the show yet. I hope it is great, and honest…but i dont expect much. :(
 
Oct 12, 2023
781
And he got busted again in 2019 for videotaping. I really don't care about Spygate, but there's a pattern and an irony here.

Belichick, the ultimate disciplinarian, had a disregard for the rules. Whether it's not wearing camo gear during Vet month or giving his name to a video game, he was always counterculture.

It tracks with his accumulation of power in Foxboro. Belichick wanted to tell people what to do, and hated the other way around.
Afaik there is no “rule”’ he has to wear camo during the ridiculous salute to service nonsense.

Belichick is from a military family, has tremendous respect for the military (based on his comments), has spoken at length about Cardona’s service as well as a couple of the other service guys they’ve brought in over the years. I hardly think it’s counterculture to want to honor and respect the military in a more sincere way and not pander to the NFL and their licensing deals in that regard.
 

djbayko

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It's just another stupd little thing he did to be different. We all know his commitment to the armed services. But BB had to be different. His antisocial behavior is not some grandiose social commentary. BB is not operating on a level we don't understand. It's just who he is.
Maybe he does it because he actually believes in it, rather than doing it just to be different?

Did he start the trend of always deferring kickoff just because he wanted to be different too?
 

Salva135

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Oct 19, 2008
1,582
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Afaik there is no “rule”’ he has to wear camo during the ridiculous salute to service nonsense.

Belichick is from a military family, has tremendous respect for the military (based on his comments), has spoken at length about Cardona’s service as well as a couple of the other service guys they’ve brought in over the years. I hardly think it’s counterculture to want to honor and respect the military in a more sincere way and not pander to the NFL and their licensing deals in that regard.
We all know his background and influences. This board jizzes over his Navy background even though most of this board is old white dudes who work in law or tech and have never sniffed the military..
 

boca

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As stated in an earlier post I loved the first two episodes.

My only qualm would be a lack of insight from current day Bill on the decision to go with Brady over Bledsoe. There was lots of footage of old press conferences and interviews where Bill explained his decision but it would have been nice to hear his reflections on it now when he was being interviewed for this tv show.
 

k-factory

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I am amazed at the quality of some of the old interview and sideline footage on my 4k screen. Some footage is understandably low grade but damn…most everything looks really good - impressive remastering.
 

k-factory

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You really have to admire the conviction of Bill. He’s not been one to play politics. His line about “Mr. Kraft pays me to make the decisions so that’s what I’m going to do” when it came to keeping Drew on the bench once he returned really exemplifies that.
He took an unpopular stance in Cleveland with benching Kosar, did the same thing with Drew and he was right both times.
Helped that he had Ernie Adams sifting through footage and digging up patterns - probably something Bill saw from the sidelines too - but the whole Drew “looks like a Wildebeest under attack” cracked me up.
Bill took his accountability seriously though and his principles of ‘do your job’ and ‘ignore the noise’ really started with himself. Never afraid to make the tough calls.
And sure, lots of teams passed on Tom but in the end Bill is who saw something there, and Bill is who pulled the trigger and gave the kid the opportunity to succeed despite the noise because he recognized the will in him.
The Bill or Tom argument is absurd on its face because it misunderstands the role of the coach and mentor.
Add to that the resilience required to run a football team for 23 years in a market where the press is snipey and grouchy.
What a gift.
 

BaseballJones

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The thing about Deflategate is that it wasn’t Bill who came off looking bad, it was Tom.
I was talking with a friend the other day - a Steelers fan - and we were chatting about KC and Andy Reid. And he threw out the line that unlike Brady, Mahomes has a coach who hasn't been caught cheating multiple times by the NFL.

I just responded with LOLOL. Because we've had this discussion before, and maybe he's just tweaking me. I don't know. But I don't have much of a defense for Spygate, because even though we all know that was a molehill, not a mountain, it still was BB violating the rules. Ok, fine. But Deflategate (a) wasn't even a thing (we literally can all do the experiment at home and see how a drop in temperature affects air pressure in a football...), but (b) you and @lexrageorge have it right - the "villain" in Deflategate is Brady, not Belichick, who was in fact completely cleared in that entire investigation.

I bring this up because even though that's how it went, people STILL attach Belichick to Deflategate. It's so stupid, but they do.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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And he got busted again in 2019 for videotaping. I really don't care about Spygate, but there's a pattern and an irony here.
The 2019 videotaping violation was the fault of Kraft; Bill had zilch to do with that media production. Same group, IIRC, that produced Dynasty.
Yep, this is the thing. Belichick literally had nothing to do with the 2019 incident. That was all Kraft and his production team. But per my previous post (#115), somehow people pin that on Belichick.
 

cornwalls@6

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Yep, this is the thing. Belichick literally had nothing to do with the 2019 incident. That was all Kraft and his production team. But per my previous post (#115), somehow people pin that on Belichick.
Precisely. Which the shit poster you’re responding to undoubtedly knows, but disingenuously throws out there anyway to prop up his tired, reactionary anti-Belichick takes. It was a nice couple of months(which included plenty of smart, reasonable criticism of BB) without his keen insights.
 

BaseballJones

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Precisely. Which the shit poster you’re responding to undoubtedly knows, but disingenuously throws out there anyway to prop up his tired, reactionary anti-Belichick takes. It was a nice couple of months(which included plenty of smart, reasonable criticism of BB) without his keen insights.
Maybe he knows. But a lot of people honestly believe that BB was behind Deflategate and the 2019 taping issue. It's crazy, but some people actually believe it.
 

Deathofthebambino

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We all know his background and influences. This board jizzes over his Navy background even though most of this board is old white dudes who work in law or tech and have never sniffed the military..
Roughly 93% of all Americans have never served in the military. Should we cancel Veteran's Day, so a bunch of us lawyers and tech bros don't jizz on them?
 

Salva135

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Oct 19, 2008
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I'll respe
Roughly 93% of all Americans have never served in the military. Should we cancel Veteran's Day, so a bunch of us lawyers and tech bros don't jizz on them?
I apologize for that; that comment was out of line and didn't advance the discussion in any appreciable way. I still stand by my observation that Belichick doesn't enjoy being told what to do or restricted in his decisions, whether it be by the league or owner.
 

gtmtnbiker

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My only qualm would be a lack of insight from current day Bill on the decision to go with Brady over Bledsoe. There was lots of footage of old press conferences and interviews where Bill explained his decision but it would have been nice to hear his reflections on it now when he was being interviewed for this tv show.
I thought it was clear from the interviews with Pioli/Ernie that Bledsoe was sacked so often that he turtled under pressure. That was a problem for the team.
 

DJnVa

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Roughly 93% of all Americans have never served in the military. Should we cancel Veteran's Day, so a bunch of us lawyers and tech bros don't jizz on them?
You can celebrate any way you want. We have that freedom.

Thanks to veterans!
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I apologize for that; that comment was out of line and didn't advance the discussion in any appreciable way. I still stand by my observation that Belichick doesn't enjoy being told what to do or restricted in his decisions, whether it be by the league or owner.
For some of us, this series is a football eyewash for all the negative and toxic Pats related stuff we've lived through the last few years. We already have lots of parties to the whole dynasty with agendas - we don't really need an airing of fan traumas in this thread. If you want to continue to publish your copious thoughts about BB's many, many failings, we have a BB thread for that or you can start your own.

Otherwise let's discuss the show because while you are over there still grumbling that BB cost you championships, the actual ones that happened are pretty awesome to revisit.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Episode one has Bryan Cox gleefully obliterating dudes and David Nugent revealing that Brady cheated at Tecmo Bowl Original (hmm...).

If Vince Lombardi awarded Emmys the series would win some for this installment alone.

Why isn't it tomorrow yet?
 

reggiecleveland

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In all the Brady vs Bill stuff I always thinks it shortchanges Bill, since he made the courageous decision to play Brady. There is a timeline where Tom is the best looking real estate agent in San Mateo.
 
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Al Zarilla

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In all the Brady vs Bill stuff I always thinks in shortchanges Bill, since he made the courageous decision to play Brady. There is a timeline where Tom is the best looking real esate agent in San Mateo.
There was a bit in the Brady Six, I think it was, when he heard he was finally drafted, he said "oh thank God I won't have to sell life insurance for a living."
 

bougrj1

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In all the Brady vs Bill stuff I always thinks it shortchanges Bill, since he made the courageous decision to play Brady. There is a timeline where Tom is the best looking real estate agent in San Mateo.
I get what you're saying here... but I think this shortchanges Brady quite a bit. He clearly had shown enough to be backup to Bledsoe when he had to go in due to injury. And he had shown enough in his stint before Bledsoe was healthy to earn plenty of other starting jobs if the Pats decided to go back to Drew. Of course, who knows how good he becomes elsewhere but I don't think it's unreasonable to think the would have had a solid quarterback career regardless.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I get what you're saying here... but I think this shortchanges Brady quite a bit. He clearly had shown enough to be backup to Bledsoe when he had to go in due to injury. And he had shown enough in his stint before Bledsoe was healthy to earn plenty of other starting jobs if the Pats decided to go back to Drew. Of course, who knows how good he becomes elsewhere but I don't think it's unreasonable to think the would have had a solid quarterback career regardless.
Well, this shortchanges Bill too, doesn't it. Brady never even gets the opportunity to show enough to be the backup if Bill doesn't decide to keep 4 QB's on the roster in 2000 (not on the practice squad, on the roster). Having lived through the Malik Cunningham, I mean Michael Bishop, arguments back then, keeping Brady was not exactly a no-brainer. In that season, John Friesz was inactive for like 4 straight weeks, and then Bill benched Bledsoe after an interception in the 2nd quarter against Buffalo (or maybe Drew got hurt on the play, don't remember), and it wasn't Brady that came in, it was Friesz. Bishop made appearances in 8 games that year.

Then they got rid of both Friesz and Bishop that offseason and brought in Damon Huard, who had gone 5-1 in 6 starts as Miami's backup over the previous 2 seasons. One of those starts was a 27-17 win against New England, and his first game for Miami before getting the starting job in 1999 was off the bench against New England in which he went for 240 yards, 2tds and 1 pick and led Miami to a 31-30 come from behind victory where Miami was down 8 with under 6 minutes to go, got a field goal with 2:45 left, and then led the Dolphins to a game winning TD with 23 seconds left to Stanley Pritchett.

That's how Huard ended up on BB's radar, and they brought him in 2001 to compete for the backup job with Brady, but I think Drew went down so early in the season that BB was more comfortable that Brady knew the offense better at that point and went with him.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Episodes one and two go to great lengths to show how Brady won the job. There are plenty of anecdotes about how badly he wanted it, how hard he worked to get it and how he wasn't giving it back once he got it. BB probably gives Brady his highest form of praise by talking about his preparation at the time and how Tom pushed him to work harder too (accentuated by footage of the two walking into the practice facility at some ungodly hour of the morning).

But the key parts are when Pioli and Ernie explain why they made the move - Bledsoe was gunshy and it affected his play - and make it obvious why they were able to get buy in around the organization. That said, they don't gloss over how big of a potential issue that was if it didn't work.

Its a testament to BB et al that they went with the best football decision versus the optimal political one which was to bring back Bledsoe as the starter. I wonder how many other coaches two years into their redemption jobs would make the same decision.
 

ColdSoxPack

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You really have to admire the conviction of Bill. He’s not been one to play politics. His line about “Mr. Kraft pays me to make the decisions so that’s what I’m going to do” when it came to keeping Drew on the bench once he returned really exemplifies that.
He took an unpopular stance in Cleveland with benching Kosar, did the same thing with Drew and he was right both times.
Helped that he had Ernie Adams sifting through footage and digging up patterns - probably something Bill saw from the sidelines too - but the whole Drew “looks like a Wildebeest under attack” cracked me up.
Bill took his accountability seriously though and his principles of ‘do your job’ and ‘ignore the noise’ really started with himself. Never afraid to make the tough calls.
And sure, lots of teams passed on Tom but in the end Bill is who saw something there, and Bill is who pulled the trigger and gave the kid the opportunity to succeed despite the noise because he recognized the will in him.
The Bill or Tom argument is absurd on its face because it misunderstands the role of the coach and mentor.
Add to that the resilience required to run a football team for 23 years in a market where the press is snipey and grouchy.
What a gift.
I wonder what Drew thinks about Ernie Adams' wildebeest remark. I'm not a football expert but was there no discussion of getting the QB better protection? What was the state of the O-line?
 

SirPsychoSquints

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I wonder what Drew thinks about Ernie Adams' wildebeest remark. I'm not a football expert but was there no discussion of getting the QB better protection? What was the state of the O-line?
There was conversation that Brady took care of the O-line and was one of the boys, and so they took care of him. I didn't feel it was presented as a contrast to Drew, per se, but maybe you could read into it that way.

For reference, not that this means a lot, but from 1998-2005, no offensive linemen made the Pro Bowl for the Patriots. Lots of defensive players, Brady, Brown, Vinatieri. Matt Light made it in 2006/7/10, but he'd been the starting LT from 2001 on. In 2007, unsurprisingly, 8 Patriots made the Pro Bowl, including Light, C Koppen & LG Mankins.
 

Hoya81

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I wonder what Drew thinks about Ernie Adams' wildebeest remark. I'm not a football expert but was there no discussion of getting the QB better protection? What was the state of the O-line?
The line was much improved over ‘99-‘00 when Bledsoe was really beaten up. The only holdovers were Woody at C and Greg Robinson-Randall at RT. Light was a rookie at LT, Mike Compton and Joe Andruzzi were brought in from DET and GB to play the guards. It took a bit for the group to jell (Brady got sacked 7 times in a November game vs BUF) but really rounded into form down the stretch, especially in the run game.
 

Prodigal Sox

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The line was much improved over ‘99-‘00 when Bledsoe was really beaten up. The only holdovers were Woody at C and Greg Robinson-Randall at RT. Light was a rookie at LT, Mike Compton and Joe Andruzzi were brought in from DET and GB to play the guards. It took a bit for the group to jell (Brady got sacked 7 times in a November game vs BUF) but really rounded into form down the stretch, especially in the run game.
While the above is true, it wasn't just the fact the Drew was gun-shy, he had problems making quick decisions. There is a reason for the old joke that when Drew went back to pass it was "pat, pat, pat, sack". Also not sure how much Drew was responsible for changing protections, if needed, at the line and whether there were issues there.
 

Van Everyman

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Speaking of Adams, the Spygate episode which debuts tomorrow is going to tell us a lot about this documentary. This ESPN article from old friend Set Wickersham and Don Van Natta in 2015 put a lot of the operation at Ernie's feet and suggests it was much more nefarious than Bill protested over the years (Felger has argued that Ernie was in charge of "black ops" for Belichick for years and actually read this article aloud on the air when he retired after 2021).
 

Hoya81

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Speaking of Adams, the Spygate episode which debuts tomorrow is going to tell us a lot about this documentary. This ESPN article from old friend Set Wickersham and Don Van Natta in 2015 put a lot of the operation at Ernie's feet and suggests it was much more nefarious than Bill protested over the years (Felger has argued that Ernie was in charge of "black ops" for Belichick for years and actually read this article aloud on the air when he retired after 2021).
The Wickersham/DVN stuff is so infuriating to read because it often contains some good reporting(their article about the various machinations around the Rams/Chargers/Raiders attempts to move to LA is great) but also treating a lot of league rumors as facts.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Speaking of Adams, the Spygate episode which debuts tomorrow is going to tell us a lot about this documentary. This ESPN article from old friend Set Wickersham and Don Van Natta in 2015 put a lot of the operation at Ernie's feet and suggests it was much more nefarious than Bill protested over the years (Felger has argued that Ernie was in charge of "black ops" for Belichick for years and actually read this article aloud on the air when he retired after 2021).
Ernie’s apparent comment - which we will hear tonight - that he’s ‘taking some things to his grave’ is only gonna feed that perception. I’ll be interested to see if he seems to play it more for laughs, or it’s a combination of both.
 

Oil Can Dan

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Watched #3. So well done. Just fantastic to watch. Makes me wish my heart belonged to the Pats. Truly jealous.

edit to add mad respect for Drew. Loved the Tedy line about how the $100m QB was doing everything he could to help Brady get ready for the Bowl, and his THAT was where The Patriot Way started.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Watched #3. So well done. Just fantastic to watch. Makes me wish my heart belonged to the Pats. Truly jealous.

edit to add mad respect for Drew. Loved the Tedy line about how the $100m QB was doing everything he could to help Brady get ready for the Bowl, and his THAT was where The Patriot Way started.
He could’ve totally fucked that season up, the juxtaposition with Parcells’ bullshit in ‘97 was put in sharp relief in that episode.
 

canderson

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That was unfair to Madden to have his multiple voiceovers saying the Pats were making a mistake trying to score and not kneeling out the clock to go to OT. The man is dead!
 
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Mystic Merlin

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I’m waaaay less bothered by SB42 than I used to be, but episode 4 not only felt like a tinge of pain from an old wound but reignited my contempt for certain cohorts, like a dormant furnace.

Best team I’ve ever seen, and it’s fucking incredible they didn’t collapse right then like the Legion of Boom Seahawks. Instead, they were merely 7 years into a 19 year run, with five Super Bowl appearances to come. Fuck ‘em all, indeed.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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I just finished episode 4 and found it exceedingly painful to watch. Fuck Mangini, fuck the NFL generally for pretending that that was as meaningful to the team's winning record as they know it wasn't, fuck Eli being in the grasp, fuck Brady's fucking ankle, fuck the injury to the OL, fuck EVERYTHING about that episode. Oh, and FUCK STRAHAN, you fucking buck-tooth, gap-tooth motherfucker. FUCK. YOU.

Can't wait for 5.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I just finished episode 4 and found it exceedingly painful to watch. Fuck Mangini, fuck the NFL generally for pretending that that was as meaningful to the team's winning record as they know it wasn't, fuck Eli being in the grasp, fuck Brady's fucking ankle, fuck the injury to the OL, fuck EVERYTHING about that episode. Oh, and FUCK STRAHAN, you fucking buck-tooth, gap-tooth motherfucker. FUCK. YOU.

Can't wait for 5.
It is all flooding back. And fuck John Tomase, I couldn’t believe he was being consulted on NBCSB the other day on this series.

View: https://twitter.com/realalexbarth/status/1760888036131225769?s=46&t=1S4eWjX_rzBBrpPNddRPAg
 
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