Three day out check-in

[Champagne Shower For Gabe]

The Pats are in a rare position where the supply of top QB prospects (not guys who go in the first but are being pushed up due to positional value) is greater than the demand ahead of them (because only 2 teams are). Next year, if they’re drafting 4th, chances are at least 1 if not all 3 of those other teams need QB

This is where my disconnect is... what if they believe (like I do) there are only 2 franchise QBs in this draft not 3? I personally don't like Daniels at all and feel he is going to flame out quickly. I think this QB class has been way oversold, there is 1 franchise QB (Williams), 1 QB who could be the guy (Maye), and a good amount of flotsam (Daniels, Nix, McCarthy, Phenix)

They may feel the same way, maybe the team likes Daniels but doesn't like Maye... maybe they like both and this is all a futile exercise.

The question is, if the pats feel (with a very high level of confidence) that Jayden Daniels's ceiling is Justin Fields or Drake Maye's ceiling is Mitch Trubiski then what should they do when their number is called and that is what is left. I think its obvious to everyone if someone they see as a franchise QB is there at 3 they should snatch him up. But what do you think they should do if they believe that whoever is left has no better chance than the rest of the field to be "the guy"?

 

[Champagne Shower For Gabe]

Might as well respond to the OP too:


1. Who do you want the Pats to take at 3 (first choice)? Maye
2. Who do you want to take at 3 (second choice)? Trade back
3. Who do you expect them to take at 3? Daniels
4. How do you feel about what they actually did? (I'm assuming you mean what I predicted in 3 since the draft hasn't taken place) Annoyed, as stated above don't have faith in him and I think they will only be picking him because the only one of the "big 3" left. (Hoping Was takes Daniels and I'm proving wrong on my prediction).

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

1. Who do you want the Pats to take at 3 (first choice)? Maye
2. Who do you want to take at 3 (second choice)? Daniels
3. Who do you expect them to take at 3? Maye
4. How do you feel about what they actually did? Daniels or Maye, I'm fine. A tradeback for a haul (starting with three #1's) I'm fine. McCarthy at 3... I guess if they are convinced. Anything else would be a disappointment.

 

[streeter88]

Wow. Had to scroll back up to the OP to see how long ago it was - so many responses!

1. Maye
2. Trade down
3. Don’t know what is going to happen
4. I hope they trade down if Maye is not available, but I think they are committed to drafting a QB. Because I’m not in New England I don’t know whether there is much news or many leaks. The fact that I’m not seeing much on here leads me to believe they are comfortable and ready for whatever happens, which is reassuring.

EDIT: after reading most of the thread, I don't recall lots of posts about how disappointed we all have been for at least five years with the entire process as BB always seemed to zig when everybody else zagged. It would be nice for once for the Pats to pick “consensus” top players at QB, WR, and OT.

 

[jk333]

Trade down for 3 firsts. If Maye is available, draft him unless someone offers 4 firsts.

I’d even accept a slightly lesser offer if only Daniels is available and a top 7/8 pick is offering a swap and additional assets like multiple seconds.

If it were up to me, they’d not draft JJ McCarthy in the top 15.

 

[Jeff Van GULLY]

1. Who do you want the Pats to take at 3 (first choice)? Jayden Daniels
2. Who do you want to take at 3 (second choice)? Drake Maye
3. Who do you expect them to take at 3? Trade with Vikings
4. How do you feel about what they actiually did? Resigned to sucking for quite awhile longer

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

I have no idea who is better as between Daniels and Maye. I'm 100 percent relying on Washington to screw the pooch.

1. Who do I want them to take: Whichever of the big 3 is left.
2. Second choice -- not applicable.
3. Who do I think it will be: Daniels.
4. How do I feel about it: Fine.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

1. Who do you want the Pats to take at 3 (first choice)? Maye and I RUN the card up, ecstatic.
2. Who do you want to take at 3 (second choice)? Daniels and I walk the card up, more than happy.
3. Who do you expect them to take at 3? Maye - fingers crossed.
4. How do you feel about what they actiually did? THRILLED if they take Maye, happy if they take Daniels or trade down, PISSED/DESPONDENT if they take JJM.

 

[SMU_Sox]

It’s Maye or trade back for a haul for me and nothing else close. I don’t want anything to do with JJM or Daniels.
I would like them to snag either Joe Alt (who I have a 7.99 on so not pro bowl kind of a guy) or preferably one of the top 3 WRs. I have ridiculous grades on all of them. If they get pick 23 I would take a swing at Mims who I think will be the best OT in this draft (health issues though).

 

[rodderick]

It’s Maye or trade back for a haul for me and nothing else close. I don’t want anything to do with JJM or Daniels.
I would like them to snag either Joe Alt (who I have a 7.99 on so not pro bowl kind of a guy) or preferably one of the top 3 WRs. I have ridiculous grades on all of them. If they get pick 23 I would take a swing at Mims who I think will be the best OT in this draft (health issues though).

I've grown into this position as well. Don't think Daniels or McCarthy are worth 3 by any stretch. Though I differ in that I probably like Penix more than most and do think he could be worth a pick at the lower end of the first round.

 

[Bowser]

1. Who do you want the Pats to take at 3 (first choice)? JJM.
2. Who do you want to take at 3 (second choice)? Maye, assuming he's there.
3. Who do you expect them to take at 3? Maye.

I've come around on Maye since my early days of posting on the topic, but three days out and I'm riding with JJM. My take is that while he has several obvious weaknesses, he suffers mostly from sins of omission whereas Maye suffers mostly from sins of commission. I know I'm swimming against the current here, and I fully expect to be wrong. But there's a lot to like about JJM. He deserves to have someone banging the table for him.

What bothers me about Maye is how many of his supporters -- including professional analysts -- dismiss his issues with a waive of the hand, as if they're obviously correctable. I'm not so sure they are.

Maye has made some horrendous decisions under pressure. His two INTs against Minnesota were at least as bad as JJM's against Alabama. His pick 6 from Clemson's 5 yard line at a key moment in the game was baffling. Can his footwork and decision-making under pressure be fixed? Sure, maybe. But there are too many times when Maye looks like a bigger, stronger armed, and more athletic ... Mac Jones.

4. How do you feel about what they actually did? About the Pats drafting Maye? I'm fine with it. He might have the highest ceiling of any QB in the draft. But he has a lot that needs fixing.

 

[Myt1]

1. Trade down
2. Draft Maye
3. Draft Maye
4. View: https://youtu.be/ksJpuznVJFM?feature=shared

 

[Kull]

The argument against trading down is recent history. With rare exceptions, since 2020 teams aren't getting franchise QBs from anything lower than #6. Obviously it's not an exact science, but when the NFL front offices believe there are worthy QBs in the draft, they go for 'em early:

2020 1,5,6 Burrow (1)
2021 1,2,3 Lawrence (1)
2022 22
2023 1,2,4 Stroud (2)
2024 1,2,3 ?

The drafts before 2020 are not this lopsided - not as consistently anyway as we're seeing now. Clearly the game has changed and teams that don't have a top 3 pick are going to be scrabbling for years. From the perspective of this thread, like most I want Maye. But if he isn't there, take your shot at Jayden and hope it works. JJ has his supporters, but imagine for one second the difference in scale of the trading frenzy if Jayden or Maye was sitting there at #4 instead of McCarthy? So the Pats have to pick one of the Big 3 and hope for the best. Trading down will land a bunch of great contributors, but that's more likely to result in a long run of "good", and as we know, that's not enough.

 

[imnotbatman]

1. Who do you want the Pats to take at 3 (first choice)? Maye
2. Who do you want to take at 3 (second choice)? If Maye is gone, trade (ideally with the NYG. Who knows maybe they take MHJ.)
3. Who do you expect them to take at 3? Maye

 

[SMU_Sox]

@Bowser I don't think Maye is safe at all; nor do I think his issues are easily correctible. I completely get it if they are out on Maye. I think the juice is worth the squeeze but it is a calculated gamble and it might come up bust.

A buddy brought up this issue with me about his footwork. He made a good point and I will share it here. Maye's footwork and a lot of his issues that stem from bad footwork (short range pin-point accuracy on out routes or horizontal targets) are somewhat a product of the Air Raid. Mahomes also had some of those issues coming out. He apparently did not have these issues in high school.

In the Clemson game it did feel like he was overwhelmed and I have some concerns there too with processing, specifically post-snap. That being said he gets through his reads well.

 

[Norm loves Vera]

1. Who do you want the Pats to take at 3 (first choice)? Maye
2. Who do you want to take at 3 (second choice)? Daniels
3. Who do you expect them to take at 3? Whoever is there at 3 at QB of the trinity.

I keep going back to this AVP quote from a SI article from February about Van Pelt's philosophy LINK

"“We’re not exactly sure what pieces to that puzzle we’ll have, but I feel confident with the coaching staff that we’ll be able to put those people in the right place,” Van Pelt said about building his offense. “It’s not so much about scheme, it’s about the players and putting those people in position. There’s a lot of different schemes out there, the best ones put the best players in positions to be successful.”

I can't help think AVP will take whoever is avail at three and that will dictate the rest of the draft. But I don't know crap and anytime I post after @SMU_Sox I second guess everything I thought before I read his post lol.

 

[Arroyoyo]

1. Who do you want the Pats to take at 3 (first choice)?

Trade down.

2. Who do you want to take at 3 (second choice)?

Maye or Daniels - flip a coin, they’re both risky prospects that will be overdrafted. I think I prefer Maye simply because Daniels’ durability in the NFL, given his frame and playing style, terrifies me.

But if “the bag” isn’t offered, then I would be okay with gambling on an over-drafted but dynamic QB like Maye or Daniels. Though MJH would also be just as satisfying at that point, as long as the plan would be to trade up from R2 to draft Penix, whom I view as a nearly equal prospect to Maye and Daniels.

3. Who do you expect them to take at 3?

Trade down. I think with Minnesota. I think they get both of Minnesota’s firsts this year, their first next year, and a player. Maybe also a third or fourth this year or next. I think the “haul” could be stunning.

I do wonder if Minnesota will surprise by staying put and drafting Penix at 11, though.

 

[DJnVa]

It’s Maye or trade back for a haul for me and nothing else close. I don’t want anything to do with JJM or Daniels.
I would like them to snag either Joe Alt (who I have a 7.99 on so not pro bowl kind of a guy) or preferably one of the top 3 WRs. I have ridiculous grades on all of them. If they get pick 23 I would take a swing at Mims who I think will be the best OT in this draft (health issues though).

Talk me through this...you don't think Alt is a Pro Bowl guy and you think Mims will be the best OT. So, why draft Alt ahead of Mims? Or even, why draft a guy you don't think is Pro Bowl potential at #3?

 

[SMU_Sox]

Talk me through this...you don't think Alt is a Pro Bowl guy and you think Mims will be the best OT. So, why draft Alt ahead of Mims? Or even, why draft a guy you don't think is Pro Bowl potential at #3?

Here are the grades:
7.99 Will be very good player. Probable rookie starter. May or may not have pro bowl physical traits.
7.75 Unique Potential. Pro bowl traits who needs critical technical development and consistency.

Mims has started 8 games. If he didn't have injury red flags I would be all over him as OT1. Mims has also only played the right side. Joe Alt has a higher floor to me and I value that in an OT. I am not chasing ceilings with OTs. Alt is also a left tackle.

 

[SMU_Sox]

@DJnVa

Here is my writeup on him FWIW:



I debate grades in my notes. also that should say he moves in ways that he should NOT at his size.

This is his RAS. Just a ridiculous human being.

 

[Sille Skrub]

1. Maye
2. Marv Jr
3. Nobody, trade down
4. Ask me Thursday night

 

[8slim]

1. Maye
2. Daniels
3. Either/or
4. Good

It’s reallllly hard to win in this league without a top flight QB. We’re in a once every couple decades draft spot. There’s 3 well regarded QBs at the top of the draft board. Take a QB. Don’t overthink it.

If the guy we takes flops, so be it. Better to have tried than trade down and be cute.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Quick check in:
1. Who do you want the Pats to take at 3 (first choice)?
--Drake Maye
2. Who do you want to take at 3 (second choice)?
--Trade out
3. Who do you expect them to take at 3?
--Drake Maye
4. How do you feel about what they actiually did?
--Well they haven't done anything yet so how am I supposed to feel?

 

[Curt S Loew]

1. Who do you want the Pats to take at 3 (first choice)? Maye
2. Who do you want to take at 3 (second choice)? Daniels
3. Who do you expect them to take at 3? Daniels
4. How do you feel about what they actually did? Fine. Because they couldn't get Maye. They absolutely have to take one or the other.

 

[DJnVa]

Quick check in:
1. Who do you want the Pats to take at 3 (first choice)?
--Drake Maye
2. Who do you want to take at 3 (second choice)?
--Trade out
3. Who do you expect them to take at 3?
--Drake Maye
4. How do you feel about what they actiually did?
--Well they haven't done anything yet so how am I supposed to feel?

He's asking how you'll feel if #3 comes to pass.

 

[Auger34]

Quick check in:
1. Who do you want the Pats to take at 3 (first choice)?
--Drake Maye
2. Who do you want to take at 3 (second choice)?
--Trade out
3. Who do you expect them to take at 3?
--Drake Maye
4. How do you feel about what they actiually did?
--Well they haven't done anything yet so how am I supposed to feel?

Same.

 

[Zincman]

It’s Maye or trade back for a haul for me and nothing else close. I don’t want anything to do with JJM or Daniels.
I would like them to snag either Joe Alt (who I have a 7.99 on so not pro bowl kind of a guy) or preferably one of the top 3 WRs. I have ridiculous grades on all of them. If they get pick 23 I would take a swing at Mims who I think will be the best OT in this draft (health issues though).

I'm in the same boat as John although I'm less enthusiastic about Maye than he is and more enthusistic about Alt. While its axiomatic that you can have a short rebuild in the NFL, I don't think this is true of the Pats, who not only have more holes in the roster than you would like but the holes are also in key NFL positions such as QB, WR, and LT. I'd settle for Maye unless we get a offer that truly offers us an opportunity to fill multiple holes with high end talent over the next two years. No McCarthy or Daniels for me either as @SMU_Sox and I have watched too much tape that has discouraged us on both. I think Maye's flaws are more correctable than the other QBs but he will need significant development.