Tim Tebow: Pride of The Philippines

Papelbon's Poutine

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Without contradicting anything you are saying, at the end of the day, baseball is a game, but isn't it entertainment? And also a business? What if the AAA franchise thinks Tebow is worth another 100 fans a night in the seats? Is it worth it to keep him there? 1000 fans? 1500? Does that value override the possible 1 game impact where travel time from the AAA team versus the AA team impeded a call up of a needed MLB backup? I dunno, but suspect the answer is yes for those involved.
Exactly. But we are whining about Billy Joe Robideaux who might come up for one game to fill in and Tebow is stealing his chance. WTF do people want minor league teams to do? They have a hard enough time putting asses in seats, if the dragged Ricky Henderson back into it, so be it and good for them.
 

jon abbey

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There's tons of 33 year old guys in AAA that will never get more than a cup of coffee. It's convenient to give him a little shit for being who he is, but it's a bit overboard to whine about him taking food out of other guys' mouths (so to speak).
If you can find even one other 33 year old in AAA currently who has never played a MLB game, I’ll be a bit surprised. Maybe there are a few, but no way there are ‘tons’.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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If you can find even one other 33 year old in AAA currently who has never played a MLB game, I’ll be a bit surprised. Maybe there are a few, but no way there are ‘tons’.
Yeah I have better things to do with my day, but if you want your internet points for being pedantic, I award them. You know what I'm saying.
 

moondog80

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The scenario where someone's would-be major league career is derailed because of Tim Tebow seems only slightly more plausible than Tim Tebow himself having a major league career.
 

phrenile

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Eh, he is taking ABs away from someone with an actual future, he will turn 33 in August and was the worst player in all of AAA last year as detailed above. He is the current equivalent of Eddie Gaedel, except Gaedel actually got on base in his one AB. :)
Worse yet for Tebow, Gaedel did it in his zero AB.
 

jon abbey

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Yeah I have better things to do with my day, but if you want your internet points for being pedantic, I award them. You know what I'm saying.
I do and I think it’s mistaken. Anyone else his age with his (lack of) baseball track record is long out of baseball, I don’t think guys last like that anymore without even a taste of the bigs.
 

jon abbey

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The scenario where someone's would-be major league career is derailed because of Tim Tebow seems only slightly more plausible than Tim Tebow himself having a major league career.
It is true that I looked a bit at the 2019 Syracuse roster yesterday and it is filled with mediocre washed up veterans much more than prospects, but there's still something I personally find distasteful about this (and I get that he draws people).
 

billy ashley

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I don't think anyone is claiming the Tebow stunt is costing careers. It may possibly cost a more deserving player a shot at a cup of coffee. That cup or coffee is probably worth more in prorated salary than said hypothetical player made over the past few seasons...
 

moondog80

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I don't think anyone is claiming the Tebow stunt is costing careers. It may possibly cost a more deserving player a shot at a cup of coffee. That cup or coffee is probably worth more in prorated salary than said hypothetical player made over the past few seasons...
Even that seems like a stretch. Between AAA and AA, the Mets must have at least 4 OF ahead of Tebow on their emergency list. And long before they have to go that deep into the system, they would just buy a AAAA player from some other organization. And if there is some crazy circumstance where they need a warm body for 24 hours and that guy doesn't get the slot because of the ripple effect of Tebow, so be it. I'm OK with sacrificing the 1 out of 100,000 chance of that happening. Because there's a an equal chance of Tebow being that black swan who is just so athletic that he can become a legit MLB player at age 34.
 

Plympton91

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How about a team signing a 37 year old gym teacher who had washed out of the low minors 12 years prior.

Stupid publicity stunt, right?

Tim Tebow has already been a much better professional baseball player than Trey Ball ever was, and the Red Sox blew the 7th overall pick in the draft on him. Against AA right handers in 2018 Tebow had a 780 OPS. What fraction of draftees washed out before doing anything close to that proficient? I bet it’s huge.

The animus toward Tim Tebow is 95% because he wears his Christianity on his sleeve. It’s bigotry, pure and simple.
 
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jon abbey

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Trey Ball was released when he was 24, not sure how that's relevant.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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How about a team signing a 37 year old gym teacher who had washed out of the low minors 12 years prior.

Stupid publicity stunt, right?

Tim Tebow has already been a much better professional baseball player than Trey Ball ever was, and the Red Sox blew the 7th overall pick in the draft on him. Against AA right handers in 2018 Tebow had a 780 OPS. What fraction of draftees washed out before doing anything close to that proficient? I bet it’s huge.

The animus toward Tim Tebow is 95% because he wears his Christianity on his sleeve. It’s bigotry, pure and simple.
Yep.
 

Plympton91

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Trey Ball was released when he was 24, not sure how that's relevant.
The couched argument is that Tebow is a “waste of time.” So are most draft picks, including very high ones. And, he’s not embarrassed himself at AA, a level most picks don’t reach. So, i fail to see the “mah principles” hand wringing.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I do and I think it’s mistaken. Anyone else his age with his (lack of) baseball track record is long out of baseball, I don’t think guys last like that anymore without even a taste of the bigs.
How is Tim Tebow all that different than Jantzen Witte?

This article is from 2017. There were at least 4 players who made their debut at over the age of 30 in 2017.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/244536018/old-rookie-debuts-bibens-dirkx-leon-brady_partnerI_1
 

Cesar Crespo

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The animus toward Tim Tebow is 95% because he wears his Christianity on his sleeve. It’s bigotry, pure and simple.
No one complained when this guy was stealing jobs from minor league baseball players. Athletes from a top sports league should always get a chance at other sports based on who they are. They made it in a top sport for a reason.
 

jon abbey

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Cesar Crespo

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So, not 'tons', and three of those guys were 30, one was 32. Tebow is 32, 33 in August, and was the worst player in AAA last year, by a lot.
That was just the 4 the article mentioned and that was major league debuts. Maybe it's not tons but it's not "guys like that don't last anymore without big league experience." Tim Tebow is not an outlier.
 

Cesar Crespo

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And who did Tebow take at bats from in AAA? 36 year old Gregor Blanco? 31 year old Travis Taijeron? 28 year old Rymer Liriano? They have about as much a future as Tebow. And they already got their cup of coffee or in Blanco's case, a lot more.
 

jon abbey

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That was just the 4 the article mentioned and that was major league debuts. Maybe it's not tons but it's not "guys like that don't last anymore without big league experience." Tim Tebow is not an outlier.
I mean, he is, find one other guy that old who has not played in MLB and is in the minors still currently. Just one.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Tebow is an outlier and a side show, but his presence isn't holding anyone back from bigger, better things. Highly regarded prospects tend to spend more time in AA anyway. When they hit AAA, it's a brief stop before getting the call to the majors. They'll bench a guy like Tebow to give the hot prospect his reps. Anyone else who's pushing Tebow for a job (or vice versa) is organizational filler for whom all the development time in the world isn't going to improve their chances of career advancement.

Tebow's one advantage is he puts paying customers in the park who might not otherwise come. So long as the organization thinks that outweighs whatever playing time Tebow is taking away from other players, he'll keep living the dream. I mean, as long as someone wants to keep paying him to play baseball, why the hell should Tebow stop?
 

jon abbey

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I agree with all of that, and also I will continue to mock his incompetence at the actual game. FWIW, I rooted for him at Florida so it's not a Tebow thing, it's a Mets/incompetence thing.
 

SoxJox

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It's not a Tebow thing, it's a Mets/incompetence thing.
You keep saying that, but the relish you seem to take in all this suggests otherwise.

Also, if you're going to ask someone to name one player who is as old and has not played in MLB and is in the minors still currently, you should not take offense if you are asked to name a specific player whose at bats are bing taken away. Oh, and you would have to explain exactly how you KNOW that player's at bats are being taken away.
 

jon abbey

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Blake Gailen
Luis Vazquez
Yadiel Hernandez is 2 months younger.
OK, good job. I only looked up Gailen, he signed last winter, had five separate IL stints and only 48 ABs, but they signed him again this winter, so he counts.
 

jon abbey

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You've now been asked twice and have avoided answering the question both times. Who did he take at bats from?
I answered that a bunch of posts up, maybe before I was asked?

It is true that I looked a bit at the 2019 Syracuse roster yesterday and it is filled with mediocre washed up veterans much more than prospects, but there's still something I personally find distasteful about this (and I get that he draws people).
 

jon abbey

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Also it works both ways: if you think people are only attacking Tebow because of his religion (and again, I can only speak for myself, but seriously I rooted for him his whole Florida career), then it's just as likely that people are only defending him because of his religion.
 

Awesome Fossum

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Tebow's one advantage is he puts paying customers in the park who might not otherwise come.
Not only that, the fans/energy he brings to the park and work ethic he brings to practices surely enhances the development experience for the rest of the team. The point of the Mets' minor league system is to develop players for the New York Mets. I'm quite sure they think Tebow is adding value to their actual baseball program, even if he is never going to develop into a real Met himself. I'd be totally OK with the Red Sox doing something similar.
 

Cesar Crespo

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OK, good job. I only looked up Gailen, he signed last winter, had five separate IL stints and only 48 ABs, but they signed him again this winter, so he counts.
Tebow's also only been playing baseball for 4 years and started at age 28 which plays heavily in your narrative. Most players make the majors before 28, or quit/get forced to quit... which is kinda your point but he's not the norm. So I'm wrong, he is an "outlier" in that regard. His age really isn't.

edit: By default, any player you find is going to have a weird journey and the 3 players I mentioned had a weird journey.
 
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Awesome Fossum

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I don't think the criticism is purely based on his religion, although I'm sure that's a dimension. As someone said, people complained about Jordan. People love complaining about things. I think another part of it is that some people think a "failed" football player trying to master baseball somehow reduces baseball.
 

LogansDad

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I definitely think that some of the disdain for him is due to his religious beliefs and outward display of them, but I think 95% is far too high of an estimate. I think a lot of people got tired of him due to how much he was shoved in our faces by places like ESPN, without ever really doing anything of note in sports after his college career aside from one slant pass (and I would also argue that no small part of his coverage was due to his religious displays, as well).

Personally, I have nothing against the guy anymore, and probably envy him. I wish I could be getting paid to play a sport I loved, and would definitely keep doing it until they told me they wouldn't pay me anymore.
 

Average Reds

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The animus toward Tim Tebow is 95% because he wears his Christianity on his sleeve. It’s bigotry, pure and simple.
You don’t get to accuse other members of bigotry based on your own beliefs and nothing else.

Knock that shit off.

Edit: I say that as someone who has been a fan of Tebow (as a person) and very critical of the Mets (for the publicity stunt aspects of this) for many reasons, none of which have to do with his religion or his politics.

I should also point out that the two of us have had this conversation before. You appear to see the world through a lens that sees any criticism of a figure who openly expresses their religious belief as an attack on the religion itself.

You’re entitled to your opinion, of course, but many of us expressed our reasons for not taking the Tebow show in baseball very seriously, and none of them had to do with religion. For you to ignore those conversations and just brand everyone who disagrees with you as a bigot is simply not acceptable.
 
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Papelbon's Poutine

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Wow, this is like the most useless conversation ever on this forum. Who gives a shit? He's been tangentially realated to anything "news worthy" since when he signed and no one give a shit about AAA. For F's sake, get over it, if you're a Mets fan, you have bigger problems to worry about.
 

SoxJox

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The question yet to be answered: "name a specific player from whom he is taking at bats?" You have NOT answered that. This is as close as you've gotten:

Eh, he is taking ABs away from someone with an actual future, he will turn 33 in August and was the worst player in all of AAA last year as detailed above.
Objection your Honor, facts not in evidence. I see no name(s) in that comment.

That's the Mets, my tone is exactly the same in all of the posts I have made here.
As your avatar likely suggests, I have no doubt you regard the Mets organization and leadership with complete contempt, and you have consistently done so.

But somehow, I think you would still be mocking Tebow's "incompetence" and would continue to regard him with disdain regardless the organization with which he is affiliated. I mean, he would still be taking at bats away from someone, somewhere, right?
 

jon abbey

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Yes, I was wrong about that, as I already said twice. He is an embarrassment on the field but since the Mets' 'strategy' since Brodie has taken over is to fill AAA with fringe veterans over prospects, he is probably not blocking anyone with any potential.
 

shaggydog2000

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Aren't most people whose celebrity and praise are enormously out of proportion to their actual talents disliked by a vocal minority, or even majority? That the praise jebus crowd can't shut up about the guy probably doesn't help.
 

Plympton91

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Not only that, the fans/energy he brings to the park and work ethic he brings to practices surely enhances the development experience for the rest of the team. The point of the Mets' minor league system is to develop players for the New York Mets. I'm quite sure they think Tebow is adding value to their actual baseball program, even if he is never going to develop into a real Met himself. I'd be totally OK with the Red Sox doing something similar.
That’s a really good point. It’s entirely possible the Mets view him as a player/coach. Maybe they like having an extra adult around on the road trips who was less likely to tolerate the type of behavior being discussed in other threads. Not as relevant for AAA, of course, where there are a lot of people old enough to rent cars.
 
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billy ashley

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That there, coupled with his offensive prowess, is why I'm not convinced that Tebow is one of the best 30 baseball players in the Philippians.

Like, I don't want to be called prejudicial against Christians or anything... but wouldn't a guy with 70-80 speed, and literally no experience with a bat and a ball, provide more utility than a guy who can't crack 30% league average offensive numbers in AAA and no defensive ability? Like, just don't swing and shag fly balls.
 

billy ashley

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In a way, I'm glad we've experienced the Tebow thing, because it's great evidence of how hard baseball is. Tebow is a gifted athlete. It's astonishing he had a single season where he was averagish at the plate, given his career path and his lack of natural ability outside of + athleticism.

When he first tried out I think his 20-80 grades were something like this:

Hit:30 Raw Power: 70 Game Power: 40 Run:50 Field: 20 Arm: 40 (which was shocking, given that he was an incredible college QB).

The raw power is real, but everything else is bad (other than run). I can't think of anyone in the Sox system with grades like that playing full season ball (maybe someone like Danny Diaz, but he has a strong arm along with 70 power).From a pure experiment stand point, it's been sort of interesting.
 

Marciano490

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That there, coupled with his offensive prowess, is why I'm not convinced that Tebow is one of the best 30 baseball players in the Philippians.

Like, I don't want to be called prejudicial against Christians or anything... but wouldn't a guy with 70-80 speed, and literally no experience with a bat and a ball, provide more utility than a guy who can't crack 30% league average offensive numbers in AAA and no defensive ability? Like, just don't swing and shag fly balls.
I’m sure his defensive liabilities are due to inexperience making actual catches and reading balls off bats, but pointing to the guy tripping as evidence of his lack of skill in the field is kind of a gotcha. I think he’s proven he’s really good at running.
 

billy ashley

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Not to pile on Jon Abbey, who I think is more right here, than not, I think a better question than "name a player that age with zero major league playing time in AAA" would be, "name a prospect with similar 20-80 scores as Tebow." I think that's an interesting question.

I don't pay as much attention to the minors as I used to but I still pay pretty close attention to Boston. Looking at the AAA roster:

Josh Ockimey is potentially a 70 raw power guy, 60 in game power guy, with everything else in the 40s. I don't think he's as bad as Tebow in terms of hit skill, not even close. But that's probably the closest guy on the Sox off the top of my head.
 

billy ashley

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I’m sure his defensive liabilities are due to inexperience making actual catches and reading balls off bats, but pointing to the guy tripping as evidence of his lack of skill in the field is kind of a gotcha. I think he’s proven he’s really good at running.

Yeah, he's probably a 50 runner. Which is league average. That's certainly not bad. And yeah, everyone makes a goofy play once in a while that makes them look like a doofus but I think it's important to note that Tebow is a corner outfielder because he can't handle center, and he's not even good out there.

The shocking thing is how meh his arm is. Major Leaguers are really amazing.