Tom vs. Time

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
Maybe I should save this for the end of the series, but ...

The series is called "Tom vs Time". If they show 3 hours of footage of him lifting weights, running rocky style, sitting in an ice bath, and watching film the critique would likely be "he's just doing what everyone else is doing, he thinks he's something special". Instead he is showing the kinds of things he actually does (which is a lot of what other athletes do). He watches a ton of film, he eats what he considers right for him, he not only uses a personal trainer - but takes him along on a guys weekend for treatment, schedules in workouts with the guys during the weekend away. It shows him making whatever magical smoothie concoction it is, and sharing it around. A little ball busting with Edelman over the weights versus pliability, etc. This is basically "this is how I roll" or maybe more accurately "this is how I roll to the extent I'm going to let you see it". I'm betting whatever powder was in that smoothie mix was an official TB12 product - but it wasn't shown. This biggest AG statement is "I'm not against weights, I'm for training your body for what you need to get out of it". Look at his body at 40 and what his combine photos looked at 20 - and Brady's right. His body at 40 is better than it was at 20 - and more importantly *to him* it feels better and allows him to do more of the things he needs to do.

I see nothing in this thing that is grossly commercial, or any claim of him doing anything dramatically special here - other than to say that the entirety of how he approaches his career is calculated to squeeze every ounce of results from his efforts. One episode called the "physical game", one called the "mental game", and this one called the "social game". These are the approaches in his life - from someone who took a nothing special physical structure of a body to being what is viewed by most to be the GOAT at his job. I see nothing where he is saying that his way is the only way - or the best way, but carefully that this is what is working for him.

Where I get annoyed is how this is perceived and ran with by the koolaid drinkers. I've already seen posts of "Brady is so far ahead of everyone else, he's taking his buddies out to train - no one else does that, he's the greatest ever!1!". He watches more film than anyone. He does this or that. By all accounts Payton Manning watched as much film as Brady. Many other great team athletes bonded with their teammates, hell the 70's Bruins team broke a teammate out of the hospital to take him drinking. If that isn't bonding I don't know what is. Everything that he does isn't itself a differentiator for Brady. Every smart/mature pro athlete is watching their nutrition, he gets no prize for that - hell Ray Allen's wife either is or became a nutritionist to help him be his best. Brady may believe his diet is perfect for HIS needs and be right or wrong, but there are a lot of athletes pursuing nutrition advantages. Lot's of athletes have pursued alternative physical training methods to assist their sport performances. Hyperbaric treatments, oxygen beds, etc. Andre Tippet studied martial arts for what it gave him in technique and clearly for what it gave him in general. Robert Parish practiced yoga (and I think martial arts) and was fedex-ed various herbal remedies in order to maintain his approach to longevity and played into his 40s. Hershell Walker studied and performed with the Ft Worth Ballet in order to stay flexible and pliable - for someone who believes flexibility and pliability is important for their profession it's a reasonable approach.

What this series is showing me is that in each and every facet of his life that he can control he is doing everything he can to maximize his efforts, and leave no stone unturned in his pursuit of every single scrap of achievement. The totality of what he does is the secret sauce to me - not any single thing. A doctor may say that X or Y is a placebo or can't be proven. That's fine, but the totality of what he does is key. Every rep, every moment matters. That is what I want kids to see. Here's the GOAT. He isn't sitting on his butt 24/7 playing video games, or eating poorly, or cheating the reps, or skimping the film sessions. But he isn't perfect. He enjoys hanging out with the boys - when the work is done and not to the detriment of what he has worked for. And it isn't just him. Other athletes achieving the most of themselves are often doing their versions of these same things. A single minded pursuit of everything they thought they could reach. A few hours after throwing one of his no-hitters Nolan Ryan was seen by a media guy while working out. He was asking why he wasn't out celebrating. His response was basically I'll celebrate when I'm done. There is no staples button for this kind of achievement - not for a musician, a dancer, an athlete, anyone.

It is cool watching Brady show us a portion of his approach. I already thought highly of his approach. This series doesn't raise or lower my perception of his professional preparation or approach to extending his career. I think the scariest thing about the series so far is confirmation that in the off season he does things that he enjoys - be it cliff diving, skiing, riding the off road vehicles, or whatever next months activity is. I'll be less shocked in the future if we here that he has hurt some part of his body doing one of these activities.
 

Unin10D

New Member
Feb 7, 2017
257
He's so full of shit. If he could get an edge by understanding social media, he would. Hell, he probably understands it better than half of us.

Plus, the fact that he actually knows Tom v. Time is on a non-traditional platform is kind of telling. I'm sure he doesn't give a shit about Tom v. Time but not because of the platform it's on. If facebook had unique angles of Le'Veon Bell play action, he'd figure that thing out in a second. Don't get me wrong -- his whole grumpy luddite act is hilarious.
One hundred percent agreed. Plus, Bill is too smart to not accidentally get the name right at least once. This is part of his public facade, one that I particularly enjoy
 

staz

Intangible
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2004
20,757
The cradle of the game.
And then JE was hurt!!! SEE WHAT HAPPENS!!
Probably because I've never really looked into it, but I'm left with one overwhelming thought: Maybe the program actually fucking works. Maybe of all the thousands of snake oil, $19.99 creme and before/after photo fantasies, TB12 is actually legit. That's probably what the series is designed to make me think, which is fine, but it's got a pretty good track record, albeit a SSS. Have any other players bought in to the degree of TB?

As an aside, I'm reminded of that place Nomar and a bunch of other MLB players went to in Arizona back in '98 or so - had the reputation of being somewhat revolutionary and successful - what was it called?
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,433
deep inside Guido territory
Probably because I've never really looked into it, but I'm left with one overwhelming thought: Maybe the program actually fucking works. Maybe of all the thousands of snake oil, $19.99 creme and before/after photo fantasies, TB12 is actually legit. That's probably what the series is designed to make me think, which is fine, but it's got a pretty good track record, albeit a SSS. Have any other players bought in to the degree of TB?

As an aside, I'm reminded of that place Nomar and a bunch of other MLB players went to in Arizona back in '98 or so - had the reputation of being somewhat revolutionary and successful - what was it called?
API I think is the place.
 

MainerInExile

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 21, 2003
4,825
Bay Area
Probably because I've never really looked into it, but I'm left with one overwhelming thought: Maybe the program actually fucking works. Maybe of all the thousands of snake oil, $19.99 creme and before/after photo fantasies, TB12 is actually legit. That's probably what the series is designed to make me think, which is fine, but it's got a pretty good track record, albeit a SSS. Have any other players bought in to the degree of TB?

As an aside, I'm reminded of that place Nomar and a bunch of other MLB players went to in Arizona back in '98 or so - had the reputation of being somewhat revolutionary and successful - what was it called?
I don't think that anyone thinks the stretching stuff is snake oil. Stretching is good for you. Hydration is good for you. People like Hightower probably do lift too much.

It's the tomatoes thing, for instance, which is bullshit.

It's not all or nothing.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,030
Probably because I've never really looked into it, but I'm left with one overwhelming thought: Maybe the program actually fucking works. Maybe of all the thousands of snake oil, $19.99 creme and before/after photo fantasies, TB12 is actually legit. That's probably what the series is designed to make me think, which is fine, but it's got a pretty good track record, albeit a SSS. Have any other players bought in to the degree of TB?
To the degree of TB? No way. But Gronk got more involved this year apparently.
 

mostman

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 3, 2003
18,814
Funny thing - I watched this one on Facebook and then did the unthinkable. I read the comments. I was stunned how many “I used to hate on Brady, but this is making me a fan,” statements were in there. If this was intended as a branding exercise, it’s probably serving its purpose.
 
Last edited:

streeter88

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 2, 2006
1,807
Melbourne, Australia
Episode 3 was great. I wish that Brandin Cooks had joined them on this trip. Might have helped get on the same page more and had a better year than he already did.
Next year, I hope Hogan and Cooks are both on the trip. Though if they want to play golf, they're going to have to add a couple more guys to make the second foursome.

Very good video, and not just all hype / football replays (which are great BTW) -- it's very thoughtfully produced.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,410
Funny thing - I watched this one on Facebook and then did the unthinkable. I read the comments. I was stunned how many “I used to hate on Brady, but this is making me a fan,” statements were in there. If this was intended as a branding exercise, it’s probably serving its purpose.
A huge portion of the country believes he’s a pretty boy Hollywood playboy type—it was a natural counterpart narrative to Aw Shucks Peyton. And Brady certainly has the trappings.

Seeing goofy dorky Brady must be a revelation.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
62,071
New York City
Brady is a living, breathing advertisement for the TB12 method. He's not lying about having the shoulder problems in the mid aughts. He was in pain and his arm was weakening.

Now he's 40, old af for NFL standards, and he just completed a MVP season and is playing in his 8th Super Bowl. And he's still firing missiles. How did Peyton's arm look in 2015?

Maybe some of what TB12 suggests is snake oil. But I'm not sure how anyone can look at Tom Brady himself and not think there are a lot of good things in his process. Everyone is just so quick to mock and denigrate, in the same manner that people call for Brady's demise.

You know who else was denigrated and put under an inquisition? Galileo. Yes, I went there.
 

allstonite

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 27, 2010
2,489
A huge portion of the country believes he’s a pretty boy Hollywood playboy type—it was a natural counterpart narrative to Aw Shucks Peyton. And Brady certainly has the trappings.

Seeing goofy dorky Brady must be a revelation.
This perception always confused me because the reality is almost the exact opposite.

Peyton was the golden boy, #1 overall, son of a former NFL QB, anointed as the next big thing, constantly ripping into his O-Line and kicker in the media.

Brady had to fight off a top recruit in college for his job, drafted in the sixth round, started as a 4th string, put his entire O-Line in his first commercial, and is reserved and awkward in public.
 

Number45forever

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 16, 2003
1,970
Vermont
You know who else was denigrated and put under an inquisition? Galileo. Yes, I went there.
100% stealing this. Just outfuckingstanding work by you.

Very much enjoying Tom v. Time. Edelman's good news/bad news thing was so perfectly done. He'll be back for next season and they're going to wreck people.
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
12,802
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
This perception always confused me because the reality is almost the exact opposite.

Peyton was the golden boy, #1 overall, son of a former NFL QB, anointed as the next big thing, constantly ripping into his O-Line and kicker in the media.

Brady had to fight off a top recruit in college for his job, drafted in the sixth round, started as a 4th string, put his entire O-Line in his first commercial, and is reserved and awkward in public.
I believe there are two main reasons for that: people saw Peyton fail early and often, and he cultivated an "average Joe" personality through the brands he chose to do commercials for. Brady, on the other hand, was a winner from the jump and never really let his guard down to the public. Choosing to represent some very exclusive brands and marrying a supermodel only served to further the image of an arrogant Hollywood type. Manning made conscious decisions to appear like a folksy personable, "aw shucks" kind of guy, while Brady apparently lived his life without giving a shit about what the general perception of him would be.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,410
I believe there are two main reasons for that: people saw Peyton fail early and often, and he cultivated an "average Joe" personality through the brands he chose to do commercials for. Brady, on the other hand, was a winner from the jump and never really let his guard down to the public. Choosing to represent some very exclusive brands and marrying a supermodel only served to further the image of an arrogant Hollywood type. Manning made conscious decisions to appear like a folksy personable, "aw shucks" kind of guy, while Brady apparently lived his life without giving a shit about what the general perception of him would be.
The child out of wedlock with a Hollywood actress gave a lot of traction. Plus, those who don’t know much assume he ditched her to “date up,” in retrospect.

It’s a bit hard to fathom for many that Tom Brady got where he is in large portion through his special nerd/dork powers.
 

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
24,896
Unreal America
This perception always confused me because the reality is almost the exact opposite.

Peyton was the golden boy, #1 overall, son of a former NFL QB, anointed as the next big thing, constantly ripping into his O-Line and kicker in the media.

Brady had to fight off a top recruit in college for his job, drafted in the sixth round, started as a 4th string, put his entire O-Line in his first commercial, and is reserved and awkward in public.
Peyton’s got a southern twang and did some self deprecating commercials. Brady is handsome. People are pretty superficial.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,647
This perception always confused me because the reality is almost the exact opposite.

Peyton was the golden boy, #1 overall, son of a former NFL QB, anointed as the next big thing, constantly ripping into his O-Line and kicker in the media.

Brady had to fight off a top recruit in college for his job, drafted in the sixth round, started as a 4th string, put his entire O-Line in his first commercial, and is reserved and awkward in public.
Peyton also had a sexual harassment allegation against him at Tennessee that got brushed under the rug largely because of his superstar status.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,314
Funny thing - I watched this one on Facebook and then did the unthinkable. I read the comments. I was stunned how many “I used to hate on Brady, but this is making me a fan,” statements were in there. If this was intended as a branding exercise, it’s probably serving its purpose.
Saw that too on an article about the WEEI kerfuffle. Of course, now there are articles up about how weird it is he kisses his kid on his lips.
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
Saw that too on an article about the WEEI kerfuffle. Of course, now there are articles up about how weird it is he kisses his kid on his lips.
My kids slap [me and] my wife on the ass. I wonder how that'd go down.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Experiencing Furry Panic
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I'd have gone with "Jesus Christ Himself", instead of Galileo, but that was well done.

And if the show had him drinking concussion juice and other mumbo jumbo them it might be worth criticizing. But it just shows lots of stretching and massage and smoothies with no secret ingredients if you call now.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,314
My kids slap [me and] my wife on the ass. I wonder how that'd go down.
Guy, I said I'd watch your documentary this weekend! I'm a busy man.

It's funny, because I remember Belichick getting crap after the Super Bowl for kissing his daughter on the mouth. I guess it's just a Patriots thing; Ferris Bueller style.
 

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
46,890
Hartford, CT
The documentary has proselytized to the viewer roughly 855785346 times less than I expected. It was surprising to me how they captured and presented more or less in a straightforward manner Edelman's pushback on the perceived anti-weight philosophy Guerrero and Other Brady Guy espoused.
 

CantKeepmedown

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,585
Portland, ME
Saw that too on an article about the WEEI kerfuffle. Of course, now there are articles up about how weird it is he kisses his kid on his lips.
I had a buddy last year who went on facebook and talked about how weird it was that Brady kissed his father on the lips. How he would never in his life think about doing something like that. But was quickly shot down by how many of his "friends" said that they had done the same thing (maybe 70/30 saying that they either did or still do).

If you're raised that way, it's not weird at all.
 

brandonchristensen

Loves Aaron Judge
SoSH Member
Feb 4, 2012
38,506
It still blows me away how fast that story was swept under the rug. It never comes up anywhere. Same with Eli being a fake memorabilia scam artist. You gotta give them credit, the Manning PR machine is the best one in sports.
Well it's nice they can be the best at something.
 

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
Saw that too on an article about the WEEI kerfuffle. Of course, now there are articles up about how weird it is he kisses his kid on his lips.
I have not seen these articles and I don't intend to read them. That said, I think it's pretty atypical to do that. Maybe not but it's not something I've seen much between parents and kids...though I do remember seeing Tom kiss his Mom on the lips when he first saw her after SB 51. Maybe it's a Brady family thing. Not that it actually matters.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,410
Saw that too on an article about the WEEI kerfuffle. Of course, now there are articles up about how weird it is he kisses his kid on his lips.
My buddy’s girlfriend had the same reaction.

We both started laughing for the same reason: my buddy is Brazilian. Like Tom Brady’s kids.

This is totally normal behavior.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,410
It still blows me away how fast that story was swept under the rug. It never comes up anywhere. Same with Eli being a fake memorabilia scam artist. You gotta give them credit, the Manning PR machine is the best one in sports.
The Peyton harassment/assault case didn’t get any traction at all until like the third whirl through the national media.

I first read about it like 15 years ago...

Same with Cosby. Think about it. :confused:
 

MainerInExile

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 21, 2003
4,825
Bay Area
I'm not Brazilian. I'm of English descent, born and raised in Maine. I kiss my kids on the mouth every day, and think it would be much more strange not to. They're my kids!
 

Bleedred

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 21, 2001
10,011
Boston, MA
The Peyton harassment/assault case didn’t get any traction at all until like the third whirl through the national media.
I'm guessing that it will get another airing when he declares as a GOP candidate for Corker's senate seat...after which he'll win with 65% of the vote.
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
9,390
San Francisco
My buddy’s girlfriend had the same reaction.

We both started laughing for the same reason: my buddy is Brazilian. Like Tom Brady’s kids.

This is totally normal behavior.
I'm not sure its totally in ok in Brazil either. https://f5.folha.uol.com.br/televisao/bbb18/2018/01/pai-e-filha-trocam-beijos-no-bbb18-e-telespectadores-questionam-limites-da-intimidade.shtml
There's a little controversy about a father daughter kiss in Big Brother Brazil 18 (and lots of other weird stuff between them too).
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,410
I'm not sure its totally in ok in Brazil either. https://f5.folha.uol.com.br/televisao/bbb18/2018/01/pai-e-filha-trocam-beijos-no-bbb18-e-telespectadores-questionam-limites-da-intimidade.shtml
There's a little controversy about a father daughter kiss in Big Brother Brazil 18 (and lots of other weird stuff between them too).
I would argue there’s no such “thing” as Brazil. Heck, I don’t even think of Brooklyn as a useful concept without knowing more specific info.

I mean, my buddy’s great grandfather was also captured from the wild by rope or some shit. Lot going on there...
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,410
Hey, I know!

Let’s have a conversation about which cultural norms are the ok ones.

I love this subforum so much. I don’t know why America uses football as it’s forum for hashing out important social issues, but I have Become resigned to it and now even sorta enjoy it. :)
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,314
I mean, we're literally created by a penis and a vagina, and are pushed out of a vagina to be born and then suck on our mother's tits for a year or so, but closed lip mouth kisses are a bridge too far.

Not that I do it with family cuz I abhor physical contact, but if that's how people want to roll, it's whatever.
 

BrazilianSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 11, 2006
3,751
Brasil
Hey, I know!

Let’s have a conversation about which cultural norms are the ok ones.

I love this subforum so much. I don’t know why America uses football as it’s forum for hashing out important social issues, but I have Become resigned to it and now even sorta enjoy it. :)
Yeah, around my parts (Brazilian Northeast) it's not a norm, but it isn't rare to kiss one's mom in the mouth, or between a father and his little daughter. Father-son is much more rare.
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
12,802
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
Yeah, around my parts (Brazilian Northeast) it's not a norm, but it isn't rare to kiss one's mom in the mouth, or between a father and his little daughter. Father-son is much more rare.
Funny, I was just about to comment that I've never seen anyone I know kiss their kids on the mouth here in Brazil. In fact, there's currently a father who kisses his adult daughter on the lips in a reality show and people are flipping out about it