Tompa Bay: Tom Tom club

BaseballJones

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Arians...LOL. I mean, it's not like Brady didn't have some decent success while in New England under that godawful no-brain coach Bill Belichick.

So either the secret is Belichick coaching Brady and the team, or it's letting Brady do the coaching. In either case, it's an indictment on Arians, other than that MAYBE he was smart enough to realize that Brady is smarter than him and so it would just be best to step away and let Brady do it himself. And I wonder where Brady learned all that football stuff in the first place?

So I guess if Arians is smart enough to realize that it's best for the team if BRADY is really the coach and not Arians....good on him, I guess.
 
Harry Hooper

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BaseballJones said:
Arians...LOL. I mean, it's not like Brady didn't have some decent success while in New England under that godawful no-brain coach Bill Belichick.

So either the secret is Belichick coaching Brady and the team, or it's letting Brady do the coaching. In either case, it's an indictment on Arians, other than that MAYBE he was smart enough to realize that Brady is smarter than him and so it would just be best to step away and let Brady do it himself. And I wonder where Brady learned all that football stuff in the first place?

So I guess if Arians is smart enough to realize that it's best for the team if BRADY is really the coach and not Arians....good on him, I guess.
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Filet de Bruce now being served in the main dining room.
 
Mugsy’s Walk-Off Bunt

Mugsy’s Walk-Off Bunt

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If only we had evidence - like, ya know, VIDEO EVIDENCE - in, say, one of the many season/post-season CHAMPIONSHIP RUN America's Game episodes or Three Games to Glory DVDs, wherein Brady maybe visited with Belichick, as they did every game week for two decades, exchanging strategic playcalling sequences and game plans IN BB's office! Oh wait, Bruce. That's right. We do. You're a clown. Fuck off.
 
BigSoxFan

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Mugsy’s Walk-Off Bunt said:
If only we had evidence - like, ya know, VIDEO EVIDENCE - in, say, one of the many season/post-season CHAMPIONSHIP RUN America's Game episodes or Three Games to Glory DVDs, wherein Brady maybe visited with Belichick, as they did every game week for two decades, exchanging strategic playcalling sequences and game plans IN BB's office! Oh wait, Bruce. That's right. We do. You're a clown. Fuck off.
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He'll downplay it because that's who he is but I'd bet Belichick can't wait for next season's game in Foxboro. Seeing all of these comments (and we know he has) along with the "Brady is winning the breakup" articles has to annoy someone as successful as Belichick.
 
BornToRun

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BigSoxFan said:
He'll downplay it because that's who he is but I'd bet Belichick can't wait for next season's game in Foxboro. Seeing all of these comments (and we know he has) along with the "Brady is winning the breakup" articles has to annoy someone as successful as Belichick.
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On the contrary, I fully expect Bill won’t give the slightest inkling of a fuck and will treat it like any other game.
 
BigSoxFan

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BornToRun said:
On the contrary, I fully expect Bill won’t give the slightest inkling of a fuck and will treat it like any other game.
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Nah. There are counterpoints to this, Freddie Mitchell for one. He loves to shut up the mouthy people.
 
Kliq

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The difference is that in New England, the Patriots didn't need Tom Brady to be their coach. Tampa Bay does.
 
azsoxpatsfan

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Brady is going to have as many super bowl starts in his 40s (3) as Rodgers, Brees, and Marino have in their careers combined
 
Caspir

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More playoff wins against NFC teams than Brees, and now he’s got as many NFC championships as Rodgers. I can’t wait until he comes back to Gillette next year just to see him live one more time.
 
azsoxpatsfan

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Caspir said:
More playoff wins against NFC teams than Brees, and now he’s got as many NFC championships as Rodgers. I can’t wait until he comes back to Gillette next year just to see him live one more time.
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also more playoff wins against NFC teams than Wilson
 
snowmanny

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We talk about how many HOF careers Brady has had. Is it now as simple as he had HOF careers in his 20's, 30's and 40's?

In his 40's: 47-17 regular season, 7-2 playoffs, 3 Super Bowl appearances and 1 or 2 wins. ED: Also one MVP.
 
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rodderick

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You know what, Tom actually had a good game by EPA/play and QBR, at least a much better one than traditional passer rating or the 3 picks would indicate. By EPA/play especially he was more than twice as valuable as Rodgers.
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CantKeepmedown

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The twitter comments on his video with Gronk are outrageous. People really, really hate the dude (granted, a majority of them are salty Green Bay fans).

I think he knows how disliked he is and actually likes twisting the knife a bit. I love it.
 
rodderick

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CantKeepmedown said:
The twitter comments on his video with Gronk are outrageous. People really, really hate the dude (granted, a majority of them are salty Green Bay fans).

I think he knows how disliked he is and actually likes twisting the knife a bit. I love it.
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It's really the reason I want him to keep playing until he's 48. Never seen an athlete bring out that sort of salt in people.
 
Super Nomario

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rodderick said:
You know what, Tom actually had a good game by EPA/play and QBR, at least a much better one than traditional passer rating or the 3 picks would indicate. By EPA/play especially he was more than twice as valuable as Rodgers.
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Brady was amazing in the first half. A lot of his completions were on third down, which is higher EPA. None of the INTs put Tampa's defense in bad field position. And the TD at the end of the half was stealing. Rodgers taking 5 sacks is a killer too.
 
rodderick

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Super Nomario said:
Brady was amazing in the first half. A lot of his completions were on third down, which is higher EPA. None of the INTs put Tampa's defense in bad field position. And the TD at the end of the half was stealing. Rodgers taking 5 sacks is a killer too.
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Yeah, I think a lot of people are just box score scouting this game. Brady turned the ball over, but he also made a lot of plays. Rodgers protected the ball but also took sacks, punted the ball and had a lot of short completions. I'll take an amazing half+ to put you up 28-10 followed by a dumbass throw, a ball just off the fingertips of the receivers and an arm punt than Rodgers just playing "meh" all game long and never capitalizing on the chances he got to climb back. I think there's a scenario in which Brady hits that pass to Evans and this game is a blowout and looks great for him on paper as well, but he played well enough for the Bucs to win, he wasn't "carried" like the narrative seems to imply he was. When your average pass travels 12 yards downfield, this shit will happen on occasion, it's been a staple of the Bruce Arians offense for 2 decades with a ton of different QBs. For all the talk of his playmaking prowess, Rodgers is actually an incredibly conservative QB, which is why he has games like these in which people will in 5 years look at the stats and say "Rodgers was let down by his defense again" when he came up short repeatedly as well, just not by turning the ball over.

I feel like people just don't watch Brady and have formed this image of him as a sort of Drew Brees style QB. He has some Favre in him, he'll try to fit balls in windows and go for the kill, it's why he comes back so often. Thing is he usually just hits those throws. He's not this check down machine. It's the reason why I rank Manning above Rodgers all time, Peyton would fail and throw picks but he'd go balls out and no lead against him seemed safe. Rodgers doesn't come back because he's content in taking a sack or throwing a 5 yard hitch down 10 late.
 
Silverdude2167

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rodderick said:
Yeah, I think a lot of people are just box score scouting this game. Brady turned the ball over, but he also made a lot of plays. Rodgers protected the ball but also took sacks, punted the ball and had a lot of short completions. I'll take an amazing half+ to put you up 28-10 followed by a dumbass throw, a ball just off the fingertips of the receivers and an arm punt than Rodgers just playing "meh" all game long and never capitalizing on the chances he got to climb back. I think there's a scenario in which Brady hits that pass to Evans and this game is a blowout and looks great for him on paper as well, but he played well enough for the Bucs to win, he wasn't "carried" like the narrative seems to imply he was. When your average pass travels 12 yards downfield, this shit will happen on occasion, it's been a staple of the Bruce Arians offense for 2 decades with a ton of different QBs. For all the talk of his playmaking prowess, Rodgers is actually an incredibly conservative QB, which is why he has games like these in which people will in 5 years look at the stats and say "Rodgers was let down by his defense again" when he came up short repeatedly as well, just not by turning the ball over.

I feel like people just don't watch Brady and have formed this image of him as a sort of Drew Brees style QB. He has a lot of Favre in him, he'll try to fit balls in windows and go for the kill, it's why he comes back so often. The thing is he usually just hits those throws. He's not this check down machine.
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I am not sure how to digest this post, because everything you listed goes against what made Brady great.
He did not play well enough to win. If the Bucs defense doesn't step up during his 3 straight Int's they lose, not to mention the TD at the end of the half should never have happened if Green Bays' defense did not lose their mind.

Brady has always been great because he takes what is there and doesn't force things and he has almost always gotten into trouble when he starts to lock in on plays or receivers.
 
rodderick

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Silverdude2167 said:
I am not sure how to digest this post, because everything you listed goes against what made Brady great.
He did not play well enough to win. If the Bucs defense doesn't step up during his 3 straight Int's they lose, not to mention the TD at the end of the half should never have happened if Green Bays' defense did not lose their mind.

Brady has always been great because he takes what is there and doesn't force things and he has almost always gotten into trouble when he starts to lock in on plays or receivers.
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His EPA/play and QBR in that game were at "top 5 regular season QB" level. You can't just discount what he did to put them up 28-10 and the turnovers didn't give the Packers aweome field position.

Brady takes what is there, but he's a lot less conservative then the narrative indicates, in the playoffs especially. Go look at the Atlanta comeback and watch the amount of times he threw into tight (sometimes nonexistent) windows. The issue yesterday was the horrendous first pick, forcing a ball at that point was stupid, but he does on occasion go for a greedy killshot when he doesn't have to (see: INT to Matthew Slater against the Ravens in 2011).

Edit: I feel like if you just invert the halves of this game and it ends on a deep TD throw to Miller for a comeback win, it'd get hailed as an all time QB performance outdueling Rodgers at Lambeau.
 
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Silverdude2167

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rodderick said:
His EPA/play and QBR in that game were at "top 5 regular season QB" level. You can't just discount what he did to put them up 28-10 and the turnovers didn't give the Packers aweome field position.

Brady takes what is there, but he's a lot less conservative then the narrative indicates, in the playoffs especially. Go look at the Atlanta comeback and watch the amount of times he threw into tight (sometimes nonexistent) windows. The issue yesterday was the horrendous Godwin pick, forcing a ball at that point was stupid, but he does on occasion go for a greedy killshot when he doesn't have to (see: INT to Matthew Slater against the Ravens in 2011).

Edit: I feel like if you just invert the halves of this game and it ends on a deep TD throw to Miller for a comeback win, it'd get hailed as an all time QB performance outdueling Rodgers at Lambeau.
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QBR is a junk stat and I don't really know EPA/play...but really all Brady had to do after the half was not turn the ball over and he did it 3 times. 28-10 doesn't become 28-23 without Brady playing poorly in the second half, and two of the interceptions came after it was 28-23.
His second Pick was from the GB 28 and was on second down, a field goal makes it an 8 point game, and his 3rd pick came on a 3rd and 2 from the TAM 46. These are all massive mistakes that should not be overlooked.
The only reason the game was close in the 4th quarter was because Brady left the door wide open.

I rewatched the second half of the Falcons superbowl last night actually and Brady is always executing the offense and started killing them outside the hash marks once the ALT D-Line got tired and he had time. With the exception of the Insane Eldeman catch did he try to force the ball where it should not have gone.
And the only reason the Pats were able to come back in that game were two terrible calls to go for the kill instead of getting the first time or working the clock. 3rd and 2 fumble and the sack after the insane Jones catch.
This game is over if Brady just plays it safe. Kill shots are great when they work, but are rarely worth it.

I would never say Brady plays it safe or is a checkdown machine, what he always did in the past was make the smart simple play and ensure that he wins at the end of the day.

And to your edit, you are 100% right, but that is because you are not supposed to come back from 28-10, and you are not supposed to lose when you are up 28-10.
 
rodderick

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Silverdude2167 said:
QBR is a junk stat and I don't really know EPA/play...but really all Brady had to do after the half was not turn the ball over and he did it 3 times. 28-10 doesn't become 28-23 without Brady playing poorly in the second half, and two of the interceptions came after it was 28-23.
His second Pick was from the GB 28 and was on second down, a field goal makes it an 8 point game, and his 3rd pick came on a 3rd and 2 from the TAM 46. These are all massive mistakes that should not be overlooked.
The only reason the game was close in the 4th quarter was because Brady left the door wide open.

I rewatched the second half of the Falcons superbowl last night actually and Brady is always executing the offense and started killing them outside the hash marks once the ALT D-Line got tired and he had time. With the exception of the Insane Eldeman catch did he try to force the ball where it should not have gone.
And the only reason the Pats were able to come back in that game were two terrible calls to go for the kill instead of getting the first time or working the clock. 3rd and 2 fumble and the sack after the insane Jones catch.
This game is over if Brady just plays it safe. Kill shots are great when they work, but are rarely worth it.

I would never say Brady plays it safe or is a checkdown machine, what he always did in the past was make the smart simple play and ensure that he wins at the end of the day.

And to your edit, you are 100% right, but that is because you are not supposed to come back from 28-10, and you are not supposed to lose when you are up 28-10.
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Once again, you're discounting that the only reason they were in this position in the first place is because he was great in putting them up big. You're taking the performance up to 28-10 as a given, as if the game started that way. It didn't.
 
BaseballJones

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The game is 60 minutes long. Brady made three huge mistakes - one of which really was just terrible luck. So two huge mistakes. But he also threw for 280 yards and three touchdowns, and also made some HUGE conversions early in the game, plus the one to Fournette towards the end in a tight window. When you look at the game in its entirety, Brady wasn't A+ Brady, but he was clearly good enough to win. And so he, not Aaron Rodgers, is going to the Super Bowl.
 
wilked

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Silverdude2167 said:
QBR is a junk stat and I don't really know EPA/play...but really all Brady had to do after the half was not turn the ball over and he did it 3 times. 28-10 doesn't become 28-23 without Brady playing poorly in the second half, and two of the interceptions came after it was 28-23.
His second Pick was from the GB 28 and was on second down, a field goal makes it an 8 point game, and his 3rd pick came on a 3rd and 2 from the TAM 46. These are all massive mistakes that should not be overlooked.
The only reason the game was close in the 4th quarter was because Brady left the door wide open.

I rewatched the second half of the Falcons superbowl last night actually and Brady is always executing the offense and started killing them outside the hash marks once the ALT D-Line got tired and he had time. With the exception of the Insane Eldeman catch did he try to force the ball where it should not have gone.
And the only reason the Pats were able to come back in that game were two terrible calls to go for the kill instead of getting the first time or working the clock. 3rd and 2 fumble and the sack after the insane Jones catch.
This game is over if Brady just plays it safe. Kill shots are great when they work, but are rarely worth it.

I would never say Brady plays it safe or is a checkdown machine, what he always did in the past was make the smart simple play and ensure that he wins at the end of the day.

And to your edit, you are 100% right, but that is because you are not supposed to come back from 28-10, and you are not supposed to lose when you are up 28-10.
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That last pick (3rd and 2 at TB 46) Brady had a rusher coming untouched. He knew it was 3rd down, he knew a sack or incompletion meant a punt. He knew he had 1:1 with his guy out wide, so he threw it up to give it a chance. Worst case (INT) it's a 'bad punt' which is what happened. It was the correct play.

The overthrow INT sucked, you saw him jump up and down as he knew he overthrew it. Shit happens.

He had a very good game, not a perfect game, but good enough to advance which is all that matters
 
BaseballJones

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Brady has played, really, 19 seasons (not counting 2001 and 2008, both for obvious reasons). And he's played in *14* conference championship games. The only seasons he has been a full-time starter and NOT made it to the conference championship game were (the year depicts the season; the playoffs obviously occurred the subsequent calendar year, so the 2005 season's playoffs were actually in 2006):

2002 - missed the playoffs
2005 - lost to Denver in the divisional round
2009 - lost to Baltimore in the Wild Card round
2010 - lost to NYJ in the divisional round
2019 - lost to Tennessee in the Wild Card round

That's it. Every other year he's started he's made it at least to the championship game. 14 out of 19 = 73.7%. Basically three out of every four seasons, Brady makes it to his conference's title game. That's absurd.
 
rodderick

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BaseballJones said:
Brady has played, really, 19 seasons (not counting 2001 and 2008, both for obvious reasons). And he's played in *14* conference championship games. The only seasons he has been a full-time starter and NOT made it to the conference championship game were (the year depicts the season; the playoffs obviously occurred the subsequent calendar year, so the 2005 season's playoffs were actually in 2006):

2002 - missed the playoffs
2005 - lost to Denver in the divisional round
2009 - lost to Baltimore in the Wild Card round
2010 - lost to NYJ in the divisional round
2019 - lost to Tennessee in the Wild Card round

That's it. Every other year he's started he's made it at least to the championship game. 14 out of 19 = 73.7%. Basically three out of every four seasons, Brady makes it to his conference's title game. That's absurd.
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What's absurd to me is that not only is Brady in the Super Bowl in his first year on a new team at age 43, after throwing 40 TDs in a new system, the expectation is that he carries the team by himself. Like, think about it. Can you imagine if Jordan was a top 5 guard in the regular season and the Wizards went to the Finals in his first year there? People would be nutting in their pants talking about it even today. With Brady it's "oooh, but he threw three picks, he's being carried!!". So bizarre. He shouldn't even be on the field, his legacy is more than secure and he's STILL doing it. I mean, he got to the Super Bowl without Bill in a "fuck it, throw deep" system everyone spent 20 years saying he'd never succeed in and now the goalposts are being moved again. I know, this is based on the reactions of social media dipshits, but still, it's insane that to this day, right as he's accomplishing the very things haters said he'd never be able to do AT 43, some still can't appreciate it.
 
lexrageorge

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Brady is being carried by his teammates far less than Peyton Manning was in his final season at Denver. Or John Elway was for that matter. Or Eli Manning in any season.

Brady gets an A for his first half performance, and a C for the 2nd half, which averages out to a B. I'll give him half grade bump for winning a playoff game at Lambeau, so B+ seems fair.
 
BaseballJones

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Peyton Manning's last Super Bowl run:
Den 23, Pit 16. Peyton: 21-37, 222 yds, 0 td, 0 int
Den 20, NE 18. Peyton: 17-32, 176 yds, 2 td, 0 int
Den 24, Car 10. Peyton: 13-23, 141 yds, 0 td, 1 int
TOT: 51-92 (55.4%), 539 yds, 2 td, 1 int, 75.4 rating
*Peyton's team averaged 22.3 points a game; their defense averaged 14.7 points allowed.

Tom Brady's previous Super Bowl run:
NE 41, LAC 28. Brady: 34-44, 343 yds, 1 td, 0 int
NE 37, KC 31. Brady: 30-46, 348 yds, 1 td, 2 int
NE 13, LAR 3. Brady: 21-35, 262 yds, 0 td, 1 int
TOT: 85-125 (68.0%), 953 yds, 2 td, 3 int, 85.9 rating
*Brady's team averaged 30.3 points a game; their defense averaged 20.7 points allowed.

Tom Brady's current Super Bowl run:
TB 31, Was 23. Brady: 22-40, 381 yds, 2 td, 0 int
TB 30, NO 20. Brady: 18-33, 199 yds, 2 td, 0 int
TB 31, GB 26. Brady: 20-36, 280 yds, 3 td, 3 int
TOT: 60-109 (55.0%), 860 yds, 7 td, 3 int, 90.8 rating
* Brady's team averaged 30.7 points a game; their defense averaged 23.0 points allowed.

Clearly Peyton relied on his defense MUCH MUCH MUCH more than Brady has relied on his.
 
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