Tottenham Hotspur 2019-20: Jose can you see?

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
9,209
South of North
So Ndombele is an every match that matters starter now, and LoCelso or Lamela (when healthy) over Eriksen, correct?
Yes to Tanguy, and yes to Lo Celso over Eriksen. However, Lamela has a different role from GLC/Eriksen, so that is more dependent on the matchup and shape Poch wants to use.

The attack is fairly straightforward--I could tell you easily the best handful of attacking shapes Poch could throw out. Player selection and shape for the back 5? [insert shruggie emoji]
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,671
Honestly, watching Son go into shock and cry on the field over the weekend kind of ruined the whole season for me. I was really happy to see him score twice yesterday (and shout-out Gomes in his celebration).
 

Mugsy's Jock

Eli apologist
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 28, 2000
15,069
UWS, NYC
Watching Son brings me total joy in such an otherwise disappointing season. His continuous hustle and skill, not to mention clear affection for the game and his teammates (and even his opponents) is really inspiring.
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
5,846
Again a lame performance, at home against a mediocre team, with too many bad performances (Dier, Aurier, Kane being the most obvious) and tactics that made no sense.

A really poor game from Poch:

- Had they scouted Sheffield United this season? Why were they relying on Dier and Sissoko to pass out from the back against a press with no other midfield support? That was a predictable disaster. Why not play Ndombele or GLC deeper next to Sissoko? Or if you want buildup from the CBs, play Toby Alderweireld, a CB who can actually pass and who should be fresh since he didn't play in the midweek match.
- Why does Kane continue to play 90 minutes every match? He looks terrible. He's too slow right now, he offers no pace in behind, he can't dribble past anyone, and he can't create any space for himself in tight areas. Mediocre defenders are handling him easily. I would be considering dropping Kane for a Son/Lucas forward pairing right now.
- Bringing on Winks for Ndombele predictably lead to a stretch of play where Spurs were unable to win the ball back in midfield. Winks is a massive defensive liability right now.
- This group of players looked like they had never practiced playing in a back 3/5 before. The defensive positioning on the goal conceded was horrendous.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,671
Awful performance and agree with everything said by Coremiller; just dreadful across the board. This season has been a complete disaster.
 

eddiew112

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 7, 2005
4,732
Boston
They actually got some nice movement and passing in the final 3rd from GLC, Dele and Son today, but as Coremiller said, Kane was awful and the fullbacks offered nothing in attack.

I'm so tired of Aurier. If he isn't getting sent off, he's turning in performances like today. Can't put in a cross, doesn't try to beat his man, doesn't bother to challenge crosses, will aggressively press on his own and then jog getting back. Stop fucking playing him
 

veritas

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2009
3,151
Somerville, MA
I don’t have many thoughts on how to fix this team, they’re awful right now. Kane is a big part of that, he is nowhere close to the elite striker he’s been in the past. I’m sure playing a million minutes and some major ankle injuries are a part of that. Poch seems to be pretending he’s 2017 Harry Kane, when he could carry a team and you could build your approach around him. But you can’t anymore.

I’d like to see them go back to the 3-4-3 of a few years ago, with Ndombele and Lo Celso in MF and some combination of Son/Dele/Kane/Eriksen/Lucas up front, depending on matchups. I think they have much bigger problems than tactics and formations though.
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
5,846
The other problem with Kane's reduced mobility is that he doesn't lead the press from the front very well anymore. There are bigger issues with the press than just him, but he's certainly not helping.

veritas, they don't have the personnel right now to play that 3-4-3. When they were doing that three years ago, they had Vertonghen and Alderweireld at the peak of their powers, and healthy versions of Dembele/Wanyama/Dier in midfield who could run around destroying everyone. Toby/Jan are older now + have one foot out the door, and they don't have a midfield who can cover ground like that and win the ball back. Winks-Sissoko just aren't good enough defensively.

Injuries sapping both Wanyama's and Dier's abilities is underrated as a cause of Spurs' current problems. Wanyama is only 28 but he's a shell of what he was 2-3 years ago. Dier had a horrible run of injuries and illness but he's been awful for a year now. Granted, Poche's tactics today did him no favors. Maybe with some more minutes his form will improve.
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
9,209
South of North
Just a depressing season. Kane has been a shell of his former self, Poch is making bad and weird decisions, and the defense is a mess. It's time for KWP to get some real PT and see if we have anything with him. Same with any other young promising player really.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,671
Kane with a first half hat-trick today against Montenegro. Maybe it is just Spurs?
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2004
24,483
The 718
POCH OUT:

https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2019/november/mauricio-leaves-club/
The Club can today announce that Mauricio Pochettino and his coaching staff Jesus Perez, Miguel D’Agostino and Antoni Jimenez have been relieved of their duties.

Chairman, Daniel Levy, said: "We were extremely reluctant to make this change and it is not a decision the Board has taken lightly, nor in haste.

“Regrettably domestic results at the end of last season and beginning of this season have been extremely disappointing.

“It falls to the Board to make the difficult decisions - this one made more so given the many memorable moments we have had with Mauricio and his coaching staff - but we do so in the Club's best interests.

“Mauricio and his coaching staff will always be part of our history. I have the utmost admiration for the manner in which he dealt with the difficult times away from a home ground whilst we built the new stadium and for the warmth and positivity he brought to us. I should like to thank him and his coaching staff for all they have contributed. They will always be welcome here.

“We have a talented squad. We need to re-energise and look to deliver a positive season for our supporters.”

We shall provide an update on new coaching staff in due course.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,345
Philadelphia
Wow! I'll definitely be interested to see who comes in next.

Poch really didn't look likely to turn things around but I didn't expect this to happen quite so soon. He was far and away the best Spurs manager of the Premier League era.
 

67YAZ

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2000
8,730
Wow.

I saw a bunch of rumors this morning that Levy is eying Julian Nagelsman, but I figured that was typical international break rumor spinning/column filling. Nagelsmann is signed through 2023, so it would be quite expensive and surprising if Spurs could pry him away.

Tottenham supporters are good people. I do not wish Mourinho on you. But maybe Rafa Benitez to see out the season?
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,671
Sucks, and just goes to show how fleeting success can be if you are not a select few clubs. Who would have ever predicted at the start of the year that Poch would be fired, not managing a different team but FIRED? That being said, the run of success the team has had in 2019, not just this season so far but dating back to last year, has been pretty mediocre and I think the run to the CL Final masked the fact that they were pretty bad down the stretch last year in the EPL.

The big question will be if this starts a fire sale over the Jan. window. Obviously Eriksen is a goner by the end of the season, as is Tobi, Vertonghen, and probably Danny Rose as well. What happens to Kane, Son and Dele?
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,841
Wow! I'll definitely be interested to see who comes in next.

Poch really didn't look likely to turn things around but I didn't expect this to happen quite so soon. He was far and away the best Spurs manager of the Premier League era.
It was done before January window so now the club can say that whoever they bring in needs time to assess and now they don't have to spend.

I *do* think they'll spend again next summer though.
 

SoxFanInCali

has the rich, deep voice of a god
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 3, 2005
15,568
California. Duh.
Who would have ever predicted at the start of the year that Poch would be fired, not managing a different team but FIRED?
After Ranieri didn't even make it through the following season after winning the league with Leicester, I stopped being surprised by any managerial moves.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,345
Philadelphia
As an Arsenal fan I'm torn between the desire to make fun of you guys for losing your best manager in a long time and jealousy that you have a board with the balls to sack a manager who is clearly taking the club nowhere.
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
5,846
I mean, you'd think so, but at what point does the run of results domestically at end of last season, then this season mean it's time?
I think Poch had earned the right to be given a full season to right the ship. If he hadn't turned things around by May, then maybe you move on. They have minimal chances now of finishing 4th or getting relegated, and they're on track to progress in the Champions League, so what's the rush?
 

DLew On Roids

guilty of being sex
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 30, 2001
13,906
The Pine Street Inn
Wow.

I saw a bunch of rumors this morning that Levy is eying Julian Nagelsman, but I figured that was typical international break rumor spinning/column filling. Nagelsmann is signed through 2023, so it would be quite expensive and surprising if Spurs could pry him away.
Leipzig waited a full year to get Nagelsmann after he agreed to move from Hoffenheim and they have a chance to win the league. The amount of money it would take to get him would be eye-watering. I can’t see Levy doing that.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,345
Philadelphia
Leipzig waited a full year to get Nagelsmann after he agreed to move from Hoffenheim and they have a chance to win the league. The amount of money it would take to get him would be eye-watering. I can’t see Levy doing that.
I can't see Nagelsmann wanting to make that move. He has a legitimate chance to win the Bundesliga this year and he'll probably have multiple attractive options in the summer if he decides to leave then.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,841
I can't see Nagelsmann wanting to make that move. He has a legitimate chance to win the Bundesliga this year and he'll probably have multiple attractive options in the summer if he decides to leave then.
If the Spurs have caretaker now and go after him in the summer with the promise to spend some money they make selling a bunch of guys in January, they make an attractive option.
 

DLew On Roids

guilty of being sex
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 30, 2001
13,906
The Pine Street Inn
I think Poch had earned the right to be given a full season to right the ship. If he hadn't turned things around by May, then maybe you move on. They have minimal chances now of finishing 4th or getting relegated, and they're on track to progress in the Champions League, so what's the rush?
If this were a coach with a different style or the side was underperforming its stat line, I’d probably agree. But Pochettino expects a high-energy style and the players aren’t giving it. What’s more, they’re actually outperforming their xG numbers—they could be a lot worse off.

I’m willing to be corrected by someone who obsesses over Spurs, but from watching the side I thought he’d lost the locker room and the only thing keeping them afloat was Harry Kane.

Edit: I wonder if this has anything to do with Eriksen and his willingness to play.
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
9,209
South of North
If this were a coach with a different style or the side was underperforming its stat line, I’d probably agree. But Pochettino expects a high-energy style and the players aren’t giving it. What’s more, they’re actually outperforming their xG numbers—they could be a lot worse off.

I’m willing to be corrected by someone who obsesses over Spurs, but from watching the side I thought he’d lost the locker room and the only thing keeping them afloat was Harry Kane.

Edit: I wonder if this has anything to do with Eriksen and his willingness to play.
It's clear he lost the locker room, but I view this primarily as a power struggle between Levy and Poch. They worked wonderfully together for 4 glorious years but last summer Poch said "clear house, I need new guys" and Levy said "I can't sell without getting the better part of a deal". Well, it blew up spectacularly this season and both deserve some blame. Poch will likely go on to manage a major club and find great success. I feel similarly about Levy, but he needs to adjust quickly to the new trend of players refusing transfers and becoming free agents.

As for the bolded, the elephant in the room this season has been Kane's serious dip in form. The defense and midfield have been huge problems, but a team sitting 14th (!) in the table with this much talent has problems everywhere. Kane hasn't been pressing and hasn't been as active on attack. It really has been Son and Sissoko keeping this together to the extent it is *together* with an assist from Lamela. Everyone else has been uneven, injured, or outright bad.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,671
Eriksen has been the biggest disappointment, but Dele isn't far behind. Another big problem has been whoever has been playing RB has been a black hole and as much as everyone criticized Trippier's defending, the service he provided on offense was clearly a valuable asset that the current squad greatly misses. The backline changes each week and with Lloris hurt, their backline has been a problem pretty much all season. Ndombele missed some games due to injury, and Dier and Wanyama have been useless so far.

Kane is an interesting case; the consensus among most Spurs fans seems to be he has been worn down by playing a million minutes over the last few years and never fully rehabbing from his several lower-body injuries. His goal-less streak over the last several matches in the EPL would seem to indicate that as well. Yet, he has been involved in 24 goals so far this season in 20 games for club and country, and yes that includes some stat padding against international minnows, but at the same time shows that he still scores when he has adequate service. His fullbacks, Dele and Eriksen all sucking this season haven't been able to provide that.

I'm a Harry Kane stan though so this could all be excuse making.
 

67YAZ

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2000
8,730
Some team is going to get a fantastic manager in Poch. He will have some excellent options this summer, maybe sooner if ManU knew what the hell they were doing.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,841
As for the bolded, the elephant in the room this season has been Kane's serious dip in form. The defense and midfield have been huge problems, but a team sitting 14th (!) in the table with this much talent has problems everywhere. Kane hasn't been pressing and hasn't been as active on attack. It really has been Son and Sissoko keeping this together to the extent it is *together* with an assist from Lamela. Everyone else has been uneven, injured, or outright bad.
A caretaker gives them the ability to hopefully get the new manager boost to at least jump into Europa League position and potentially concentrate more on the UCL games going forward and not "worry" about the league--maybe that lets Kane recharge by playing fewer games.
 

Tangled Up In Red

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 8, 2004
4,539
Bernal
Genuinely shocked. I mean, knew it was possible, but didn't think it would happen before season's end.
New manager has to bench Eriksen, Toby, Jan (unless new contract) and focus on the guys who are going to be here long-term.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
21,759
Pittsburgh, PA
After Ranieri didn't even make it through the following season after winning the league with Leicester, I stopped being surprised by any managerial moves.
Seriously. Yeah you got to the UCL Final after several brilliantly managed two-legged ties including shutting out Dortmund and Pulisic, beating and then outlasting a far-more-talented Man City team, and then a miracle against Ajax, all of which made Levy a fortune... but what have you done for us lately?
 

Seven Costanza

Fred Astaire of SoSH
SoSH Member
Apr 11, 2007
3,016
Seriously. Yeah you got to the UCL Final after several brilliantly managed two-legged ties including shutting out Dortmund and Pulisic, beating and then outlasting a far-more-talented Man City team, and then a miracle against Ajax, all of which made Levy a fortune... but what have you done for us lately?
Actually win any silverware?

Will Jose go to a club where the owner is as reluctant to spend as Levy? My uneducated guess is that he’d go to Arsenal before Spurs if given the choice.
 

DLew On Roids

guilty of being sex
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 30, 2001
13,906
The Pine Street Inn
There’s a part of me that would love Levy to tell his players, “Oh, you’re tired of Pochettino, huh? Here’s his mentor, Marcelo Bielsa.”
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
5,846
Levy supposedly paid 19.5m to get Poch to leave. Ironic that one of the few times Poch was able to convince Levy to splash the cash was to get rid of him.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
21,759
Pittsburgh, PA
Actually win any silverware?
By that measure there are about 4 successful clubs in Europe every year, those who win the big leagues, plus the one winning the UCL if different, and everyone else should fire their manager. And yet they don't, and (for many) it's not for lack of ambition.

"winning the biggest prize there is" is not the only measure of success. That's a pretty facile and taunting post, honestly.
 

Seven Costanza

Fred Astaire of SoSH
SoSH Member
Apr 11, 2007
3,016
Poch was hired to take a perennial underachiever over the top. How successful was he at that?

I’m not saying I agree with the decision, or that’s how managers should be evaluated.

But that’s how they’re evaluated in this day and age, right or wrong. He delivered a couple of ‘almost had it!!2!1!!1’ moments. By that token, how long should his leash be?

Edit: Removed snark.
 
Last edited:

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,841
Ryan Mason to be on sidelines this weekend per a lot of twitter reports.
 

Jimy Hendrix

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2002
5,846
If I thought he still had it, my "enjoying Bill Belichick for almost 20 years" self could work with this.

Oh how I am skeptical that he still has it though.
 

67YAZ

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2000
8,730
As long as it’s a 2 year contract, should be great. But it is hard to imagine Mourinho & Levy coexisting happily.

Tactically, Spurs have a lot it interesting players for Jose’s preferred approach. Getting Kane back into form would be key so that he can lead the line and provide a constant threat working the channels. Son & Lamela would see lots of time on the wings. GLC & NDombele seem like the kind well rounded center mids that Mourinho wants to build around. No clue what he’ll make of the back 4.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,671
I’m seeing this as like premium Big Sam. A guy to lead us in full, risk-averse football but keep us from sinking into oblivion.