RIP Toucher and Rich Show ... It was fun while it lasted

[Phenom]

Listening this morning there was a moment when it was once again obvious what type of show this is. They come back from break and a Wallach update, Fred starts talking about opening day against the O's. He quickly mentions Chris Davis and Adam Jones hot starts. Wallach starts in about Jones (paraphrasing) "He's been great, talk about an amazing trade for them." When Rich interrupts with "How about you not talk about that, we have a bit to do."
cue the best of "Drunken Recaps".
 
It was just semi annoying that a legitimate and original "take" was squashed for the sake of a bit. Again, it just reinforced that this is not really a sports talk show

 
They talk more sports than D&C did for years.
 
I agree that their sports talk, especially baseball and football talk, is mediocre.  Fred is okay, but Rich isn't interested in much besides basketball.  
 
However, they always have on 3-4 quality guests per show to theoretically make up for what they lack.  
 
I've been tuning T&R out a little recently, mostly because I take great pleasure in watching John Dennis self-destruct, but their show format is fine.  If the Bruins go on a deep playoff run, I'll be back full-time.  

 

[The Talented Allen Ripley]

It pains me to say it, but if I want to listen to Sox talk in the morning, I go to D&C first. I've hardly listened to T&R since the season began.

 

[erfus]

I've been tuning T&R out a little recently, mostly because I take great pleasure in watching John Dennis self-destruct, but their show format is fine.  If the Bruins go on a deep playoff run, I'll be back full-time.  

 
I think their format is a little tired.  They can change it up easily enough with fewer tired bits and either new bits (perhaps an unreasonable request) or just more/better sports talk.  Yesterday morning for example, there was an inexplicable Adolfo outburst that occupied about 10 minutes of the show a bit after 9am.  Rich called Adolfo an idiot.  Adolfo screamed (literally) mostly indecipherably back at Rich.  It was odd.
 
I'm not looking forward to a summer of repetitive pink hat and drunken recap schtick.
 
That said, they've been getting more "name" guests recently and perhaps going forward.  Gammons, Ron Borges (for better or worse), Tomase, so maybe that's a permanent shift. 

 

[JimBoSox9]

Ya, the drunken recaps and Adolfo in general need to go.  It's time.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

I've been meaning to post about this for the last two days, yesterday I'm listening to T&R and they are interviewing Pete Abe, decent interview and I'm glad to hear Sox talk again, as soon as they are done with the interview they start talking about Rutgers Basketball and try playing some unfunny bit from the internet that you could barely hear.  Then today I was listening at the same time as steveluck and they went right to Drunken Recaps.
 
Counter that with D&C and the odd interplay with the two of them and Minihane and it is much more interesting to listen to than some drunk guy that wants to get on the radio.
 
Both days a majority of my morning drive time was spent with D&C and it has been years since I have said that.

 

[FelixMantilla]

I think Rich's absenses have affected the quality of the show.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

Rich has been back the last few days.

 

[The Talented Allen Ripley]

Centering the show around funny bits during baseball season is OK when the Sox suck, but I think T&R might be in for a rude awakening if they continue half-assing it baseball-wise and the Sox are good.

 

[kenneycb]

Was the programming significantly different two years ago when the Red Sox were actually good and, IIRC, they were #1?

 

[The Talented Allen Ripley]

Purely anecdotal, but it seemed to me that T&R talked more baseball back then.
 
But the difference now is that D&C have dialed down the political talk and the addition of Minihane has shaken up the dynamic, so I'm far more willing to give them a listen when it comes to Sox talk. Especially since T&R seem to be ignoring the subject.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

Purely anecdotal, but it seemed to me that T&R talked more baseball back then.
 
But the difference now is that D&C have dialed down the political talk and the addition of Minihane has shaken up the dynamic, so I'm far more willing to give them a listen when it comes to Sox talk. Especially since T&R seem to be ignoring the subject.

I agree with this completely, it was (for lack of a better term) shocking to me yesterday when they started talking about Rutgers basketball just so they could play the clip Rich found on the internet.  It was just really odd that they thought that was a good topic for prime drive time on Opening Day right after interviewing Abraham. 

 

[TheRealness]

I disagree that they should change their format or talk at length about the Red Sox at this point. If you're a sports talk purist, T&R has never been the show for you. Since I value being entertained more by the morning show I listen to, I'm a devout follower of the T&R program. I think they are the best show TSH has on the radio, and the best morning show in Boston. The whole program isn't pure sports radio, and I think those expecting or wanting it are going to find themselves disappointed, or at least should have by now and moved on. I would be really disappointed if they changed things to cater to the sports talk purists, because I enjoy listening to the bits and the comedians, and other non-sports takes they have on the show. I feel it gives them depth that other shows don't have, and also an unpredictability that keeps me tuning in. 
 
I really can't fathom how you, Rip, feel they are in for a "rude awakening" if they don't talk more baseball. The ratings are not close and that core audience isn't going to disappear because they don't dedicate 20 minutes each show to Jackie Bradley's low OBP. I also can't fathom anybody willingly listening to D&C and enjoying it, so maybe we're just too far apart to see where the other is coming from.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

Not going to speak for Rip, but I have always thought "Ask a Pink Hat" and the Drunken Recaps were dumb just like I can't stand when Felger and Mazz start beating whatever dead horse they are currently beating on.  The difference is that before D&C alone and The Big Show were no valid alternatives for me, with the additions of Salk and Minihane they are now at least worthy of a check in and if they are discussing something I want to listen to, I'm going to stay with EEI.  Before I wouldn't even check in because I knew it would suck so I would just listen to whatever T&R or F&M were talking about and tune it out.
 
That doesn't mean I think everything they do sucks, I thought the bit last week with the Wallach head and fake prizes was awesome and had me rolling.

 

[The Talented Allen Ripley]

I realize T&R isn't really a sports talk show, and for the most part they've always struck the perfect balance between entertaining radio and sports discussion for me. I love T&R.
 
But the Sox have been a breath of fresh air this past week and a half, particularly in light of how joyless the past few seasons have been (even when they were playing well in 2011 there was way too much agita). There's so much to talk about: Iglesias vs. Drew, Bradley staying up or down, Nava vs. Gomes, the resurgence of Lester and Buchholz... and T&R are either ignoring it or out-and-out insulting us with stupid fucking bits.
 
D&C have been talking about the Sox, and doing it fairly well. I've listened to them almost exclusively since Opening Day. If Dennis would just get mangled by a rabid dog, I might stick with them for good during baseball season.
 
Edit: as far as my rude awakening comment goes, this is a Sox town, and if they continue to play well and T&R pay the team only cursory attention, I think they'll lose a little of their audience. I don't think they'll be surpassed by D&C, but listeners may be more apt to switch between the two.

 

[kenneycb]

I would imagine most average/casual fans really don't care about Nava vs. Gomes and only mildly do about Iglesias vs. Drew but mainly because Drew is JD's brother and he's injured so the crappy jokes abound.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

I thought there would be more Sox talk and I'm surprised there's very little. I don't really care if they shut up Wallach from a take if they've planned a bit. Their bit's are usually a full segment so i can understand not disrupting the schedule and keeping pace up even if it sacrifices a take here and there.
 
I'm a bit sick of the Drunken Recaps as well. I'm not shocked they're mainly Bruins focused which I like. I wish they'd mix in a bit more Sox talk. But let's face it they're not built or intend to discuss the 24th and 25th men on the roster. It is a weakness of the show, but shows that discuss those spots can't do what they do either so its a trade off. Personally, I'd rather listen to T&R in the morning and then more serious sports talk 10-6. Not saying GRESH!!!!!!!!!!!!!&ZO and F&M are perfect but they're more traditional sport shows. I don't want to wake up and discuss WAR.

 

[yep]

I think T&R has always been more a sort of sports-themed morning show, than actual sports talk. And within that framework, they have generally done a very good job, by the admittedly low standards of "morning zoo" type radio shows. 
 
D&C used to be a kind of sports-themed political talk show, which they were very good at (even if many of us intensely disliked the political talk/"AM radio" aspects of the show). As D&C has become something closer to straight sports talk, their offering has shifted from offensive to mediocre, and in the process gave up a good portion of the core vitality, energy, and identity of the show. As a sports fan with no taste for morning-radio politics, I have generally preferred the bland/neutered D&C. But if I were a programming director looking for listener loyalty and consistent ratings, I might feel differently. 
 
T&R is usually funner to listen to in the morning, with D&C there as a backup/second-choice if I actually want to hear something about sports while T&R are stuck on a lame bit. But D&C, even sans politics, has never been much better than adequate, from either a sports-information or entertainment POV, excepting John Dennis meltdowns. 
 
My suggestion to WEEI, from a ratings POV, would be to go for absolute train-wreck: either try and get John Dennis to show up drunk more often, or replace D&C with Schilling and Shaughnessy, with Frank from Gloucester as the flash guy. 

 

[TheRealness]

I realize T&R isn't really a sports talk show, and for the most part they've always struck the perfect balance between entertaining radio and sports discussion for me. I love T&R.
 
But the Sox have been a breath of fresh air this past week and a half, particularly in light of how joyless the past few seasons have been (even when they were playing well in 2011 there was way too much agita). There's so much to talk about: Iglesias vs. Drew, Bradley staying up or down, Nava vs. Gomes, the resurgence of Lester and Buchholz... and T&R are either ignoring it or out-and-out insulting us with stupid fucking bits.
 
D&C have been talking about the Sox, and doing it fairly well. I've listened to them almost exclusively since Opening Day. If Dennis would just mangled by a rabid dog, I might stick with them for good during baseball season.
 
Edit: as far as my rude awakening comment goes, this is a Sox town, and if they continue to play well and T&R pay the team only cursory attention, I think they'll lose a little of their audience. I don't think they'll be surpassed by D&C, but listeners may be more apt to switch between the two.

 
I agree on D&C that they can talk sports well, especially the Red Sox. As I said in my post, I just loathe them too much to give them that chance. That's certainly on me. I don't mind the desire to want more Sox talk out of them, and I would imagine they will, especially when the Celtics/Bruins seasons are over. Still, I think they are catering a bit to the baseball chronics by having more of these experts on who can talk eloquently about baseball. 
 
I do love T&R, so maybe this demonstrates my myopic view of D&C then anyone else's on T&R. Still, I don't mind the bits, I like laughing in the morning, especially when my job can get a little too serious at times. 

 

[changer591]

I would rather Toucher and Rich go with the "sports-themed" approach and only have half-assed sports talk rather than going the serious route and end up with an unlistenable show like Felger and Mazz.  It's entertainment, and while I am also tired of the Drunken fan reports, I do enjoy Toucher's rants, as well as when they just fool around and not really focus on the daily sports topic at hand.  Meanwhile, Felger and Mazz try for the serious sports talk, but end up with the most asinine arguments or reasons for their daily routine that I have now found myself listening to WEEI on my drive home. 
I think that when the Red Sox are the main focus in the summer, that T&R will obviously veer toward more discussion on them, but I wouldn't want them to change anything regarding their format.  People that need their hard-code sports talk in the morning shouldn't have ever expected them to fill in that gap.  Hopefully whatever WEEI comes up with after the inevitable D&C trainwreck can take that place.

 

[erfus]

... Hopefully whatever WEEI comes up with after the inevitable D&C trainwreck can take that place.

 
Right, this is going to be T&R's problem.  D&C are also too loathsome for me to give them another chance whether or not they talk sports.  I'm not giving them my ears.  Bounce one or preferrably both out and I'll give the alternative a shot though.   That doesn't mean T&R will lose their entire audience, but I think aspects of their show need to be refreshed or their ratings will suffer.  I don't have any problem with their format and don't look for them to be Felger and Mazz, but at the same time what was new (to me anyway) 2 years ago is often times not very interesting 2 years later (Aldolfo, drunken recaps).  They need to continue to grow or they'll have the same issues that EEI is going through now.

 

[drtooth]

It will be interesting to hear T&R when the Bruins and Celtics start the playoffs.  The Hub is the Bruins flagship and Rich is a major NBA fan (his wife's illness may effect how he follows the Celts). D&C could not possibly care less about hockey.  If you listen to the morning headlines/flashes, you can see who carries what team by what leads the sports news (WEEI-Sox, 98.5-Bruins).

 

[Sille Skrub]

Rip hits it on the head. I've found myself listening to D&C more than T&R over the past week because D&C have been talking about baseball. This could be due to the fact that my expectations for the local 9 are so low that any win feels like a gift.

 

[AlNipper49]

Isn't there a way that you guys can listen to Boomer & Carton? Those guys are like Pedro is to Steve Avery.

 

[Blacken]

I don't really care about baseball talk (I watch the games, but the talk is just...bad, wherever you go), but every time they do an Adolpho bit I die a little inside.

 

[Marbleheader]

Interesting Fred just said they're going to talk more red sox because listeners are complaining

 

[NickEsasky]

Interesting Fred just said they're going to talk more red sox because listeners are complaining

I heard that on the way in. Do they lurk here?

 

[HomeBrew1901]

Nick, I believe they do yes.  It could be a coincidence but there have been a few times that Fred has gone off on criticisms that we have made about the show.

 

[JCizzle]

I see where Fred is coming from regarding no real story lines thus far. In some ways, success makes for boring radio I guess. I did enjoy the segment though and think that Fred is generally a lot more knowledgeable than people give him credit for. I love that these guys almost always tend to avoid the contrarian view point just for shock value unlike others (felger and mazz).

 

[BoSoxLady]

I can't tell you the last time I listened to D&C before this week. I read on Twitter that they were going to be on location at Fenway for Opening Day and was curious how much they'd actually talk baseball.

I tuned in around 9:00 and heard Dennis exclaim: "There will be no negativity today." The show was all Red Sox and that pleased me greatly.

During several 'EEI breaks I flipped to T&R and didn't hear a word about the Red Sox. This disappointed me greatly.

I've tuned in to T&R first all week and within seconds, flipped to 'EEI because they're still talking about the Red Sox.

I feel dirty listening to D&C and pray that T&R wises up.

 

[teddykgb]

I dunno. D+C was pretty brutal this morning, every time I flipped over they were for some reason talking about Kirk Minihane's high school athletics and it seemed like everyone from the region called in to read off their resume.
 
I think, overall, T+R are fine, they probably just have to freshen up their bits, which is tough for them because it requires a ton of creativity and it's not easy to come up with entirely new funny things on a whim.  When Gruden's QB camp came on this morning, I just wasn't interested, even though it was still objectively quite funny.  I just kind of know how it's going to go before they even start, ya know?  T+R's best stuff largely occurs in that moment of spontaneity when Fred just drops something hilarious in or Adolpho manages to interview someone who calls himself the big scary man guy.  They can't really manufacture that, but it does seem to come with them all the time if you wait just a little bit longer for it.

 

[lostjumper]

I was listening on the way into work. Dennis spent the whole time trying to rip into Minihane. It was embarrassing. A couple times Callahan even tried to steer the conversation back to the Redsox and Dennis would issue a snide insult to Kirk and take the whole program off track again. I'm amazed Kirk didn't come over and just pound him. It was so obvious what Dennis is doing. Wonder if he thinks he's only got a couple of weeks left or something?
 
John Dennis is the worst thing on radio anywhere on any stations. EEI can't dump him fast enough.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

I see where Fred is coming from regarding no real story lines thus far. In some ways, success makes for boring radio I guess. I did enjoy the segment though and think that Fred is generally a lot more knowledgeable than people give him credit for. I love that these guys almost always tend to avoid the contrarian view point just for shock value unlike others (felger and mazz).

 
Agreed and I think his other point was that talking too much about the Sox this early on is just going to lead to overreaction that is likely to look stupid in a few months.  I wouldn't mind if they talked Sox a little more than they have, but honestly I don't really tune in to T&R for any kind of hard-hitting sports talk.  And personally I like that Fred is trying to bring some perspective and avoid overreaction after 7 games.  The opposite of this is Felger and Mazz on the shortstop situation.  I am listening to more Salk and Holley than F&M this week because I can't bear to listen to them talk about Iglesias vs. Drew for one more second.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

I was listening on the way into work. Dennis spent the whole time trying to rip into Minihane. It was embarrassing. A couple times Callahan even tried to steer the conversation back to the Redsox and Dennis would issue a snide insult to Kirk and take the whole program off track again. I'm amazed Kirk didn't come over and just pound him. It was so obvious what Dennis is doing. Wonder if he thinks he's only got a couple of weeks left or something?
 
John Dennis is the worst thing on radio anywhere on any stations. EEI can't dump him fast enough.

What time did you listen because from 7:30-8 it was Minihane derailing the show but challenging Callahan about team chemistry to the point where it was annoying.  "But Gerry you can think that but you can't prove that it helped" etc... While Dennis was the one trying to keep the show on track.  

 

[drtooth]

I can't tell you the last time I listened to D&C before this week. I read on Twitter that they were going to be on location at Fenway for Opening Day and was curious how much they'd actually talk baseball.

I tuned in around 9:00 and heard Dennis exclaim: "There will be no negativity today." The show was all Red Sox and that pleased me greatly.

During several 'EEI breaks I flipped to T&R and didn't hear a word about the Red Sox. This disappointed me greatly.

I've tuned in to T&R first all week and within seconds, flipped to 'EEI because they're still talking about the Red Sox.

I feel dirty listening to D&C and pray that T&R wises up.

 
 
T&R were never a true "sports talk" type of show when they came over from WBCN.  I think they have genuinely detest the negative, made-up controversies that seem to permeate sports talk in general.  I am quite sure (having listened to the show) that Fred listens to either Detroit sports talk or Francesa and not to to Felger and Mazz.  What you hear INHO is their attempt to be the anti D&C in terms of negativity on the air ways.

 

[erfus]

I don't think Fred gives himself enough credit on baseball.  I think he has better takes than Wallach, even his long-term view of things like the Iglesias deal is actually quite refreshing compared to the reactionary / negativity that prevails on the Sox during the afternoon show.  He doesn't seem to want to put himself out there as an expert, which I get, but the thing is--nobody on that station with a mike in front of him is an actual expert.   

 

[JCizzle]

I don't think Fred gives himself enough credit on baseball.  I think he has better takes than Wallach, even his long-term view of things like the Iglesias deal is actually quite refreshing compared to the reactionary / negativity that prevails on the Sox during the afternoon show.  He doesn't seem to want to put himself out there as an expert, which I get, but the thing is--nobody on that station with a mike in front of him is an actual expert.   

I think he likely knows more about advanced stats than anyone on the air too, he just avoids them because they don't play well. I like it a lot when they can get Roche in to talk with Fred. Dan's never ending optimism and personality mesh well with Fred imo. Hopefully he can get some extended segments or maybe a whole hour a few times a week during the season.

 

[Corsi]

God bless Rich Shertenlieb.

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

Rich, having a really great monologue right now. Can't even summarize. Hope people are listening or hope they put it up online soon. Really good stuff..

 

[Andy Merchant]

Wow, very heartfelt and emotional statement by Rich about what he went through and saw yesterday.  I'm right there with you man. 

 

[NortheasternPJ]

i can't imagine how upset I'd be if someone bombed my building. He's handling this well.

 

[Phenom]

I listened to the start of the show at 6 ... Rich was unbelievably professional.  I can't even imagine.  
 
He seems like one of the nicest guys you could ever meet.  Can't believe he's gone through what he's gone through over the past number of months, and is still able to get up and do the show every morning.  Bravo.  

 

[soxfan121]

God bless Rich Shertenlieb.

 
Exactly. I cried. Powerful stuff.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Now they have a reporter from WHDH on. Weird stuff when networks are crossing over from NBC to CBS Radio.

 

[Corsi]

That voicemail from Adolfo is great.

 

[soxfan121]

David Elias, one of the WBZ reporters who were right there at the finish line, on now. 

 

[HomeBrew1901]

Rich, having a really great monologue right now. Can't even summarize. Hope people are listening or hope they put it up online soon. Really good stuff..

Heard that before I went into Starbucks, couldn't leave the car until he was done and sat in the parking lot for 5 minutes listening. 

 

[Andy Merchant]

I listened to the start of the show at 6 ... Rich was unbelievably professional.  I can't even imagine.  
 
He seems like one of the nicest guys you could ever meet.  Can't believe he's gone through what he's gone through over the past number of months, and is still able to get up and do the show every morning.  Bravo.  

 
Absolutely.  Rich effuses a sense of humanity, dignity, and decency that I don't recall ever hearing from the show across the dial, which is telling because that includes the 9/11 aftermath as well as a personal bout with cancer on their end.

 

[JCizzle]

Incredibly moving stuff from rich. Heart goes out to that guy, he deserves better than what has happened over the last few months

 

[HomeBrew1901]

Incredibly moving stuff from rich. Heart goes out to that guy, he deserves better than what has happened over the last few months

Not for nothing and I get the sentiment and Rich has said the same, but not everyone "lucks out" the way Rich has.  His wife has so far beaten the odds and nobody in his family was injured yesterday, not sure how much better it can get for him considering the circumstances, especially when kids have lost limbs, a life and parents yesterday.
 
Edit: And please don't misunderstand me on the "lucks out" part I just couldn't fine any other words at this point.  Rich is by all accounts a great guy that has gone though some serious shit the last few weeks but to say he deserves better when he can still hug his wife and kids at night kind of misses the mark for me.

 

[Gambler7]

Rich said exactly that on the air today.