TRADE DEADLINE GAME THREAD

jimbobim

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The Sox FO needs to listen to Cameron

Zock jr
12:07
Dave, with the Red Sox stumbling over their last ten games, do you think they SHOULD make another move? Or do they trust the talent on the roster?

Dave Cameron
12:07
If I were them, I'd be trying for a Lucroy/Guerra/Thornburg package from MIL.
 

Hee Sox Choi

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This makes me feel a little fuzzy inside:

Dave Cameron
I actually don't think the Indians got fleeced for Miller, but I'm probably lower on Frazier than where he's being rated on prospect lists.
 

moondog80

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From Dave Cameron chat just now:

Jimmy
Benintendi/Rodriguez/Devers/Swihart for Sale. Deal?
Dave Cameron
That's a big overpay for Boston.
Right now the market has a big disagreement with the analysts over how much prospects are worth compared to established pitchers. Time will tell who is right, but for now pretty much any deal for pitching is going to land in the "overpay" column.
 

Hee Sox Choi

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Right now the market has a big disagreement with the analysts over how much prospects are worth compared to established pitchers. Time will tell who is right, but for now pretty much any deal for pitching is going to land in the "overpay" column.
Melancon didn't.

From Cameron chat: I think the Chapman trade was the outlier, not the Melancon trade. The Nationals paid a reasonable price for a rental closer. The Cubs paid an exorbitant one.

I think prices will go down around 3pm EST today.
 

OCD SS

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No one else is concerned with 3/5 of the starting rotation potentially being lefties?
In the long term I'm more concerned that our current control expires quicker. Price can opt out after 2018, which is when Pommeranze becomes a FA as well.

Sale is actually under control in 2019, but his longevity worries me, so it's probably a good thing this option is cheap.
 

Al Zarilla

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I think his point was more along the lines of Manny played LF for the Sox and they won the World Series. Having a guy that can cover ground and throw people out is nice, but more of a luxury than anything.
Haven't seen Benintendi. Is he that elite of a fielder? Anyway, watching Holt recently, Hanley last year of course, Gomes (God bless him) and Crawford when he was here butcher plays in left, give me someone at least semi-elite.
 

YTF

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I'd take Robertson as well.

Say for instance this is the deal.

Chicago receives: EdRo, AB, Basabe and 2 other prospects on a mid tier level

Boston gets Robinson Sale and another small player

This could work. I'd also watch out for the Yankees in this sweepstakes as well. They also have the ammo to get Sale.
So you want to give them considerably less than their asking price for Sale and want Robertson as a throw in?
 
Last edited:

Hee Sox Choi

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Finally something...

ESPN's Buster Olney reports that the Mets are "on the verge of finishing a deal for Jay Bruce."
 

Tyrone Biggums

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So you want to give them considerably less than their asking price for Sale and want Robinson as a throw in?
To absorb all of the Robinson contract yeah that's doing the Sox a favor there.
 

Zososoxfan

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Since Sale has been a regular:
age, year, GS, ERA+, FIP, WHIP
23, 2012 29 140 3.27 1.135
24, 2013 30 137 3.17 1.073
25, 2014 26 173 2.57 0.966
26, 2015 31 114 2.73 1.088
27, 2106 20 128 3.69 1.029

and, as stated, his salary for age 27-30 seasons (not including overhead-costs for new throw-back uniforms):


That's a valuable player/contract. Are his behavioral issues so bad that he'd be traded for one elite prospect; one young, promising MLB pitcher; and some good throw-ins? If they are, are we okay with that? I suspect AB, ERod, + doesn't get it done, but what do I know?
This. Sale has been just an amazing young pitcher the past 5 years and top end SP is scarce, certainly more scarce than solid young OF (including the cost-controlled variety). I feel like people are not giving Sale enough credit for being the boss he is. He would be a HUGE acquisition and combined with Price and Porcello, gives this team a pretty dependable top 3 going forward. Wright and Pom are excellent 4/5 options.

I'd be thrilled to get Sale and think giving up AB + a lot is worth it. But I do not think it will happen. Chicago would be nuts to consider anything except Moncada and AB given his contract.
If the Chisox are not willing to consider less than YM+AB, the conversation is over. It's not worth discussing this, from the Red Sox perspective.

Trading Swihart right now would be dumb. He's at a low point in value until he can start playing again and they let him settle in at a position (hopefully catcher).

I think they should be shopping Benintendi if Sale is actually available. He's not taking over CR or RF and that limits his value. I like his future but I think he takes a few years to get there and LF is theoretically easier to fill than SP.
The Red Sox offer has to include AB and Edro. If the Chisox are interested in a catcher, one of Swihart/Vazquez certainly makes sense to include. So, the question becomes is it AB, Edro, Catcher, plus prospect (and likely a lower one at that), or do the Chisox not care about our catchers and do they go for a higher prospect (I guess they could go for 2 midlevel prospects, but I don't see that as likely). This is based on the assumption that YM not on the table at all, which I feel safe (or at least sane) making.

AB
Edro
Devers

AB
Edro
Catcher
Kopech

AB
Edro
Kopech
Basabe
 

NoXInNixon

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If Moncada is what it takes to get Sale, and the deal doesn't include Benintendi as well, I'm in favor.
 

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory
Dan Roche on 98.5 from a source confirming that the White Sox and Red Sox had a conference call last night. His source says the player or players may not necessarily be Chris Sale.

Bob Nightengale on MLB Network saying the Red Sox "wants Chris Sale badly" and "this has a chance of getting done. It's a flip of the coin whether Sale gets moved."
 

DanoooME

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Unless the Mets aren't paying much, I don't see how Bruce is that much of an upgrade for them. They still have no decent defensive CF and all that does is bench Nimmo/Conforto. I'd rather take my chances with those two guys instead of giving up significant prospect capital.
 

sodenj5

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Haven't seen Benintendi. Is he that elite of a fielder? Anyway, watching Holt recently, Hanley last year of course, Gomes (God bless him) and Crawford when he was here butcher plays in left, give me someone at least semi-elite.
I think Benintendi falls into the category as above average. I don't think he's JBJ, Mookie, or Jacoby out there.
 

DanoooME

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It is also worth noting that Sale is having a bit of a down year for him and is looking at some regression once his BABIP comes up from .260.
His FB is down 1.5MPH yet his change is up slightly giving him less separation. His K/9 is down 3K/9 over last year (11.82 vs. 8.61) and his FIP is up a full run over last year 2.73 vs 3.69. He is giving up less soft contact and more hard contact than at any point in his career so he has definitely been lucky this year.

If you trade for Sale it is quite possible you are getting something closer to this years David Price than last years Chris Sale. Is that worth AB+? Perhaps but the chances of an overpay are significant.
This needs to get re-iterated. I really hope a Sale trade doesn't come to fruition.
 
Haven't seen Benintendi. Is he that elite of a fielder? Anyway, watching Holt recently, Hanley last year of course, Gomes (God bless him) and Crawford when he was here butcher plays in left, give me someone at least semi-elite.
Benintendi is a "very good" fielder. I watched him a lot in college live. He's got a good first step, good speed, route running isn't always the most efficient but he's very athletic and overcomes that. Has always been in center field. Above average arm but not a cannon. He has high baseball intelligence in the field, on base and at the plate. Loved that they drafted him (as an Arkansas alumn) would really hate to see him go. Especially if Sale's arm explodes. My elbow hurts watching him.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I hope the cost for Sale is Benintendi+ and not Moncada. The latter has legit MVP upside while the former loses some, possibly a lot of, value by being moved to LF. This would fit the strategy Dombrowski has utilized in moving redundant parts with Benintendi's optimal position being CF.
 

lowerB511

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Jul 14, 2005
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As a reminder, here's Sale's contract:
  • 13:$0.85M, 14:$3.5M, 15:$6M, 16:$9.15M, 17:$12M, 18:$12.5M club option ($1M buyout), 19:$13.5M club option ($1M buyout)
A small update regarding the 2019 club option: Sale's salary will actually be $15M in 2019 (at least). There was a performance clause that bumped it from $13.5M to $15M with a 2nd or 3rd place finish for a Cy Young in any year. He finished 3rd in 2014 behind Kluber and King Felix, so that pushed 2019 to $15M. It jumps again to $16M in 2019 if he can win a Cy Young before that season starts.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
This needs to get re-iterated. I really hope a Sale trade doesn't come to fruition.
Yup. To this point:

This. Sale has been just an amazing young pitcher the past 5 years and top end SP is scarce, certainly more scarce than solid young OF (including the cost-controlled variety). I feel like people are not giving Sale enough credit for being the boss he is has been.
He may still be that boss, but there are trouble signs, and I think it's a poor time to pay for his past performance.
 

ji oh

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Mar 18, 2003
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I hope the cost for Sale is Benintendi+ and not Moncada. The latter has legit MVP upside while the former loses some, possibly a lot of, value by being moved to LF. This would fit the strategy Dombrowski has utilized in moving redundant parts with Benintendi's optimal position being CF.
True enough, but Moncada would be most valuable to a team that can put him at 2b next April or at least July.
 

DJnVa

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We're at the point now where we're talking about how we don't want Chris Sale.

I love this time of year.
 

Laser Show

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Jeff Passan:
@molly_knight @mccoveychron @JATayler One swears he doesn't. Another really doesn't know how to use a computer. So maybe more like 28.

Re: gms with secret twitter accounts

So who do we think doesn't know how to use a computer? My guess is Dave Stewart
 

PrometheusWakefield

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We're at the point now where we're talking about how we don't want Chris Sale.

I love this time of year.
And you people are all crazy.

A rotation of Sale, Price, Porcello, Pomeranz, Wright means that we have one of the best rotations in the league to go along with one of the best offenses in the league, and for the next three years.

If we can have that and also retain at least one of Benintendi or Moncada as yet another all-star caliber player to add to the roster over the next year or two, that would be awesome and means that we are in incredible shape as a franchise.

I say cash in the chips.
 

heavyde050

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This. Sale has been just an amazing young pitcher the past 5 years and top end SP is scarce, certainly more scarce than solid young OF (including the cost-controlled variety). I feel like people are not giving Sale enough credit for being the boss he is. He would be a HUGE acquisition and combined with Price and Porcello, gives this team a pretty dependable top 3 going forward. Wright and Pom are excellent 4/5 options.



If the Chisox are not willing to consider less than YM+AB, the conversation is over. It's not worth discussing this, from the Red Sox perspective.



The Red Sox offer has to include AB and Edro. If the Chisox are interested in a catcher, one of Swihart/Vazquez certainly makes sense to include. So, the question becomes is it AB, Edro, Catcher, plus prospect (and likely a lower one at that), or do the Chisox not care about our catchers and do they go for a higher prospect (I guess they could go for 2 midlevel prospects, but I don't see that as likely). This is based on the assumption that YM not on the table at all, which I feel safe (or at least sane) making.

AB
Edro
Devers

AB
Edro
Catcher
Kopech

AB
Edro
Kopech
Basabe
The thing that scares me is that the Sox just gave up arguably their best pitching prospect in several years for Pom, a guy now being regulated to 4/5 based on the above. He is being regulated bc their is a need to empty the farm for Sale.

I am not saying Sale isn't elite, but this trade, if it came to fruition, seems like a misuse of resources.

So basically the Sox would move Pom out of the playoff rotation and go with Price/Sale/Porcello.
 

DanoooME

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And you people are all crazy.

A rotation of Sale, Price, Porcello, Pomeranz, Wright means that we have one of the best rotations in the league to go along with one of the best offenses in the league, and for the next three years.

If we can have that and also retain at least one of Benintendi or Moncada as yet another all-star caliber player to add to the roster over the next year or two, that would be awesome and means that we are in incredible shape as a franchise.

I say cash in the chips.
Would you clone the current David Price and call the rotation good? Because based on Sale's recent numbers, that's what you're getting, not last year's Chris Sale.
 

grimshaw

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Benintendi is a "very good" fielder. I watched him a lot in college live. He's got a good first step, good speed, route running isn't always the most efficient but he's very athletic and overcomes that. Has always been in center field. Above average arm but not a cannon. He has high baseball intelligence in the field, on base and at the plate. Loved that they drafted him (as an Arkansas alumn) would really hate to see him go. Especially if Sale's arm explodes. My elbow hurts watching him.
My fangraphs link just disappeared, but + to ++ fielding and average to plus arm. That goes along with + to ++ speed, though I think that's more base-running than speed since he isn't a blazer.

Dan Roche on 98.5 from a source confirming that the White Sox and Red Sox had a conference call last night. His source says the player or players may not necessarily be Chris Sale."
Rochey always gets some unique scoop - I'm all for Quintana if it isn't a top two guy.
 

BoSoxFink

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Dombrowski better not strip the farm system today for Sale. I will do something like Benintendi, Ed Rodriguez, Kopech and Swihart, However I will not include 2 of Benintendi, Devers and Moncada.
In fact I don't want to trade Moncada period.
 

luckysox

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The thing that scares me is that the Sox just gave up arguably their best pitching prospect in several years for Pom, a guy now being regulated to 4/5 based on the above. He is being regulated bc their is a need to empty the farm for Sale.

I am not saying Sale isn't elite, but this trade, if it came to fruition, seems like a misuse of resources.

So basically the Sox would move Pom out of the playoff rotation and go with Price/Sale/Porcello.
Well, if you get out of the 1st series, you need a 4th starter. And even if that 4th starter is Wright, Pomeranz is a really nice lefty to have in the pen for middle/late innings. And then, you know, he'd be in the rotation for several years to come. It's not like these guys are rentals...this wouldn't even be a "go for it now", it'd be a "go for it for the next 3 years", which is pretty damn nice.
 

DeadlySplitter

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So Billy seriously sent both of his biggest chips for a singular prospect? THat can't be right. I don't even recognize the name