Why should the Twins be reasonable in this market with a stud SP under control?
Trade deadline
- Thread starter RoDaddy
- Start date
Can't injure yourself playing baseball if you're already injured & not playing baseball.
I have no clue why they would trade him at all - but they seem to be hell bent on doing so. Problem is, out of the teams looking to trade for him, pretty much all of them can offer better prospects.
If there are multiple legit suitors for Berrios, the Twins are going to take the best package of prospects. Outside of Mayer and Casas, who would Bloom part with to make an attractive offer?
Mayer can’t be traded by rule until next July, but, yeah, the Sox lose any footrace to the other teams involved in the bidding. I also don’t think Berrios - who has only one more year of control - is necessarily a better investment than Casas.
Trading Houck for Berrios doesn't put us in a much better spot than we are in now IMO. I mean yes its better, but we need a rotation of Sale, Eo, Houck, AND whoemever we bring in.
Yup - get it done! He's always been solid - liked him when he was an O's 2B (actually kinda feared him). Wish he were a lefty, but adding Schwarber's bat when he gets healthy provides some needed L/R balance.
Plus, Schoop's Dutch, from Curacao. Xander would approve and a happy X is a good thing.
Seems to be the difference between the Pads and the Dodgers is in that last sentence.
I would include anyone other than Casas, Mayer, and Houck. That means Duran, Downs, Jimenez, Groome, Bello all could be included. Not all of them but I’d include any of them.
I was listing players that wouldn’t hurt the current team. But you’re right. You could list Duran also.
Can we get someone to bite on a list of struggling players? Dalbec, Chavis, and Downs for…. Lol.
So here are the SPs on the market, as far as I can tell (rentals in italics):
Likely available
Berrios
Boyd
Davies
Fulmer
Gibson
Howard
Kuhl
Norris
Pineda
Joe Ross
Possibly available
A Marlins pitcher entering arb (Alcantara?)
Breault
Cobb
Freeland
Heaney
Merrill Kelly
Maeda
Minor
Morton
Smyly
Wainwright
Apparently off the table
Gray
Marquez
Included some MIRP guys as that might be a fit but left out the Matt Harveys and Jon Lesters of the world. Threw a couple Angels and Braves guys in the middle category but those teams are more likely still competing.
Berrios, Marquez and Marlins_pitcher remain the prizes but the dark horse candidate I’m looking at now is Joe Ross, who’s been kind of a revelation the last couple months (before getting hurt, and is now healthy again). Controlled through next season.
Likely available
Berrios
Boyd
Davies
Fulmer
Gibson
Howard
Kuhl
Norris
Pineda
Joe Ross
Possibly available
A Marlins pitcher entering arb (Alcantara?)
Breault
Cobb
Freeland
Heaney
Merrill Kelly
Maeda
Minor
Morton
Smyly
Wainwright
Apparently off the table
Gray
Marquez
Included some MIRP guys as that might be a fit but left out the Matt Harveys and Jon Lesters of the world. Threw a couple Angels and Braves guys in the middle category but those teams are more likely still competing.
Berrios, Marquez and Marlins_pitcher remain the prizes but the dark horse candidate I’m looking at now is Joe Ross, who’s been kind of a revelation the last couple months (before getting hurt, and is now healthy again). Controlled through next season.
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If they wind up taking on Hosmer's deal, they'd better be taking Chavis back
If it would take Houck or Duran included in a deal to get a stud SP under control, I’d do it.
YMMV, but to me, this Red Sox team is not yet one that you empty the prospect piggy bank for. Bloom is not going to be in on the Berrios frenzy.
I've found myself frustrated by this trade deadline season - wanting Chaim to "go for it!" and disgruntled by his restraint. And then I remembered the obvious: The Red Sox still don't have much of a farm system. Chaim has certainly quickly improved it. But they don't have much to give - not a lot of ranked prospects, and those small few who are ranked are likely rightfully untouchable (and also note that Downs stock has precipitously dropped).
I don't think Chaim is predisposed to hold on to all his chips. He just doesn't have many chips. Maybe he's more conservative than DD, but certainly Bloom wants to win a World Series himself. The conditions of the current team are such that they SHOULD go for it now via trades (first place, excellent but expiring core with clear needs/weaknesses). But the resources aren't quite there. The major league team is a wonderful surprise but with clear clear flaws. That they can't be fully addressed is evidence of the ways this is a "rebuilding year" -- not in the Nats fire sale sense, but in a "not able to maneuver from a position of organizational strength" sense. They're just not there yet.
I hope Bloom will make another move today and he likely will - for either a guy like Cron and/or a good RP. But they can't compete for players like Scherzer, Bryant or Berrios.
Hopefully Schwarber and any other newbie, combined with internal additions and the continued "magic dust" the team has been sprinkled with will all season keep the ju ju going.
Forgive if this is all too obvious. But if the Sox falter here at the end; or make the playoffs but get bumped quickly, I don't think it's "on Bloom." It's simply the state of things.
I don't think Chaim is predisposed to hold on to all his chips. He just doesn't have many chips. Maybe he's more conservative than DD, but certainly Bloom wants to win a World Series himself. The conditions of the current team are such that they SHOULD go for it now via trades (first place, excellent but expiring core with clear needs/weaknesses). But the resources aren't quite there. The major league team is a wonderful surprise but with clear clear flaws. That they can't be fully addressed is evidence of the ways this is a "rebuilding year" -- not in the Nats fire sale sense, but in a "not able to maneuver from a position of organizational strength" sense. They're just not there yet.
I hope Bloom will make another move today and he likely will - for either a guy like Cron and/or a good RP. But they can't compete for players like Scherzer, Bryant or Berrios.
Hopefully Schwarber and any other newbie, combined with internal additions and the continued "magic dust" the team has been sprinkled with will all season keep the ju ju going.
Forgive if this is all too obvious. But if the Sox falter here at the end; or make the playoffs but get bumped quickly, I don't think it's "on Bloom." It's simply the state of things.
Yeah--check in and see what they say (maybe the just LOVE a guy the Sox would deal) but I think the Sox might be in on Kimbrel, Bryant, Cron, and Schoop, and maybe a fungible pen arm. Beyond those guys, I would be surprised.
I’m checking in every 10 minutes or so to see if there any any updates. Fingers crossed. If there’s no news by 2 p.m., I’ll start to get anxious. For now, I’m hopeful.
From what I've seen from Houck, I think he should be pretty much off the table. He's a legitimate starter (who is also under control) on a team that needs legitimate starters. For Duran to be traded, it'd better be a real nice piece. Nobody is forcing the Sox hand right now, and other than a 1B (which I think is a must right now), they aren't as desperate as a lot of people on here are making them seen.
My guess is you're correct but Bloom hasn't tipped any cards beyond the Schwarber trade. He may not do much of anything or he could surprise us.
I will be beyond annoyed if the MFY get Berrios for a bag of really shiny balls. The Twins roll-over for the MFY but its usually in the 1st week of October.
The Twins aren’t going to trade Berrios unless they get a good haul from someone.
Looks like Ian Kennedy could more or less fit with the remaining room under the CBT threshold.
I agree. I felt Scherzer was somewhat more likely given his FA status and lesser cost. Berrios would just be too expensive and the other suitors can easily outbid the Sox. I just hope they add someone because they're clearly a starter or two short even with Sale.
I think this is right, but they may have a Hosmer-lite situation in Miguel Sanó that could bring down the cost. He’s utterly redundant to Dalbec and not someone I want getting any PAs on the Red Sox but maybe taking on his salary helps steer a trade our way.
Jose Berrios is someone who I always think is better than he actually is since he has great stuff. He is basically a right handed ERod. Career FIP of 4.01 and career ERA of 4.08. He is having a solid season right now but I would hope they don't trade Duran or Houck for him.
Yes. Also, Sal Perez. Also Whit Merrifield. It's a 45-56 team full of stand-up guys who bring a lot of intangible value and just can't be moved without damaging team spirit.
He has some rapport with Cora playing for Puerto Rican teams. I’d think we have decent odds of being able to extend him.
I'm highly skeptical that the Twins will trade an ace to the Yankees. Highly.
Hard to eventually know unless we get solid information about offers Bloom made/rejected. But much of that will be rumor, and any number of unforseen intervening factors could arise between now and the end of the season. So the hot-takes will have to wait until then.
Theoretically though, IF nothing odd happens beyond play generally declining or the other teams getting hot, AND we don't make the playoffs by one game, AND we didn't have a 1B solution of any type on July 31, AND we learn Bloom rejected a low-middling prospect for Rizzo deal. . .yeah, hard to see how that wouldn't be on Bloom.
I agree.... I have to remind myself that this was supposed to be somewhat of a rebuilding year to get a wildcard spot (maybe it still is). With the position we are in it gives the idea that we must make moves to win the world series...which nobody is opposed to obviously. Those kinds of moves jeopardize the trajectory and the overall plan in most cases. I think if he makes some mid-range moves to improve the club but doesn't overdo it to jeopardize the future then we will be in the best possible spot. IMO
Especially when the a good part of the point of what the team has been doing under his regime (particularly the decision to move Mookie and refrain from other expensive signings) has been to create more flexibility. What's the point of building the farm system, getting out of the luxury tax penalty box, etc... if you're not going to use those resources to acquire talent when a team is performing and has a chance to do something special?
I'm mean, we're talking about upgrading from Bobby Dalbec here, not resigning Mookie for $350 million. How hard can that be?
My TIC comment was aimed at the Twins proclivity to roll-over and play dead for the MFY.
You make a good point re: Rizzo. Though he is not the player he once was.
Meanwhile I think the team simply doesn't have the resources to compete for the best players available. I guess we all kinda know that ... but the reality of the soft organizational underbelly was easy to forget amidst the feel good season. This trade deadline period has reminded me.
I am 100% certain they will. Right or wrong, they identify holes, real or perceived, and fill them.
I'm guessing Berrios and Kimbrel find their ways to NY
I think we do have the resources. As of now, our farm system ranks 13th per FanGraphs, which is a pretty strong turnaround after a year. (The Yankees have dropped to 14th after the Gallo and Rizzo deals).
The odds seem pretty high that more deals are coming for us. We’re a near lock for the playoffs, and until Sale comes back the only guy I feel good about taking the ball in a postseason game is Eovaldi.
Well, the Sox have some key high priced players but absent trades the club will probably look mostly the same in 2022. We have a lot of FAs in 2023 though.
Since we have a leg-up now, and may not next year, it makes sense to GFIN to some extent, but not at the expense of giving up key younger players for a ton of two month rentals, or large contracts that will change the window of competitiveness for the next few years.
