Travis Shaw - what must he do to play three games in a row?

[Shane]

I wish they could ship Sandoval somewhere and keep Hanley if one of them has to be on the team. Just my personal feeling, but I got so disgusted with Sandoval letting himself go for the third of fourth time in his career to the point where his range at third was how far his glove went when he fell when a grounder came his way. If I looked at a box score after a game, I wished all the hits went to the kids or Pedey or Papi, anyone but him. Used to root for him when he was in reasonable shape at SF, but can't stand him anymore.

I don't understand why everyone seems to want to trade Hanley over Sandoval. Even with his terrible end to the year (shoulder?) he still finished with a .717 OPS. That's about the same as Ben Revere, it's not good, but it's not awful. And do people remember him being the best hitter in baseball in April? He seems to me like a much better bounce-back candidate than Sandoval, who's just seemed fat all year.

And if they somehow did get rid of Sandoval (either eating the contract or packaging him with someone else to save a little), wouldn't 3B be a better fit than 1B for Hanley? He did play third for the Dodgers. I'm not sure how good he was, but it seems unlikely he's gonna be good at any position, so shouldn't one he at least played in the past be a little better?

 

[Drek717]

 

Not to highjack the thread, but it seems at least tangentially related -- am I completely crazy to think they should consider giving Swihart a shot at first?  
 
Let's assume Vazquez is healthy and more or less back to his full arm strength.  What you then have then is Swihart, whose greatest asset is athleticism (so much so that SoxProspects has mused in print about converting him to second base a la Biggio if catching doesn't work out), potentially beaten out by a generational defensive talent at catcher.  So if Swihart has the athletic ability to play first, and play it well--and I'm guessing he does--and shows signs of becoming a good hitter, it might be worth kicking the tires on.  His bat may not naturally profile at first, but I also wonder if taking him away from the daily grind at catcher (and all the extra work you need to do to study your pitchers, etc) could actually improve his hitting.  
 
Is this worth thinking about, or am I overvaluing Vazquez and undervaluing having Swihart's bat at catcher?

Blake Swihart is a really good hitter for a catcher, but a mildly optimistic expectation for him is to be a .750-.800 OPS hitter.  A mildly optimistic offensive number for Travis Shaw would start at about the same range or even a bit higher.  It isn't the 90's where 1Bs all have >.850 OPS numbers but there is still a meaningful divide between a good hitting C and a barely passable 1B.
 
Swihart isn't Buster Posey.  He might mature into a .800 or better OPS guy where time at 1B would then make sense, but for now he and Hanigan can share catching for 2016 while Vazquez rehabs.  If Vaz fully rebounds then maybe next winter it's worth talking about moving Swihart or trading one of the two, but until then there is no need to make a change.  Also, if Swihart does move to an infield position I'd imagine 3B would be the preferred destination, given his arm strength.

 

I don't understand why everyone seems to want to trade Hanley over Sandoval. Even with his terrible end to the year (shoulder?) he still finished with a .717 OPS. That's about the same as Ben Revere, it's not good, but it's not awful. And do people remember him being the best hitter in baseball in April? He seems to me like a much better bounce-back candidate than Sandoval, who's just seemed fat all year.

And if they somehow did get rid of Sandoval (either eating the contract or packaging him with someone else to save a little), wouldn't 3B be a better fit than 1B for Hanley? He did play third for the Dodgers. I'm not sure how good he was, but it seems unlikely he's gonna be good at any position, so shouldn't one he at least played in the past be a little better?

Hanley was a bad 3B when he moved there from SS and was significantly lighter and younger.  He's now had some pretty serious shoulder injuries so his arm strength may have been significantly impacted.  He claims to have problems with the amount of bending over SS entailed, 3B isn't much friendlier in that regard.
 
It's entirely possible that Hanley would be a worse 3B than Sandoval was last year, i.e. worse than the worst defensive 3B in baseball.  Also, Sandoval played much all of the season with a jacked up left leg along with getting progressively more over-weight.  Prior to this season he has generally been a pretty solid defensive 3B.  Hanley has never been a solid defensive anything.

 

[Al Zarilla]

 
 Also, if Swihart does move to an infield position I'd imagine 3B would be the preferred destination, given his arm strength.
 
 

So, why didn't the Giants send Posey out to 3B to get him some rest from the everyday wear and tear from catcher? He even played SS in college. Well, Posey has catcher's legs now, so 1B is the best other position for him. Then again, fireplugs like Santo and Bando did fine at third. Malzone. Sandoval himself when < 240 lbs. Swihart at third is rather fascinating though, if he could cut it. Even if Sandoval reports to Jet Blue in better shape, well, he did that with the Giants but "relapsed". Sox 1B seems more likely to end up with a guy who can cut it (Hanley, Shaw) than 3B right now, at least to me, and boy, is my opinion credible. So, a guy who may be able to hit enough for a corner IF position and doesn't have a clear cut position all his own maybe should be directed down to 3B. I don't see that Blake has played anything except catcher to date, minors or majors. 

 

[Drek717]

So, why didn't the Giants send Posey out to 3B to get him some rest from the everyday wear and tear from catcher? He even played SS in college. Well, Posey has catcher's legs now, so 1B is the best other position for him. Then again, fireplugs like Santo and Bando did fine at third. Malzone. Sandoval himself when < 240 lbs. Swihart at third is rather fascinating though, if he could cut it. Even if Sandoval reports to Jet Blue in better shape, well, he did that with the Giants but "relapsed". Sox 1B seems more likely to end up with a guy who can cut it (Hanley, Shaw) than 3B right now, at least to me, and boy, is my opinion credible. So, a guy who may be able to hit enough for a corner IF position and doesn't have a clear cut position all his own maybe should be directed down to 3B. I don't see that Blake has played anything except catcher to date, minors or majors. 

Blake was a HS shortstop, FYI.  Also, the Giants have played Posey at 1B becaues: 1. they had Sandoval there for all of Posey's career until this past season and 2. they move Posey from catcher as a part time gig to save his knees.  If Swihart is being moved from catcher to get Vazquez behind the dish we're basically looking at a Craig Biggio situation where the goal is for Vaz to be the full time C and Swihart to transition into a different position long term.
 
As for directing him to 3B, up until recent the club has had a cavalcade of 3B options.  Middlebrooks, Cecchini, Sandoval, now Moncada, Devers, and Chavis as well.  They've had some pretty bad flame outs but third base has always been viewed as a position one more year away from having a long term solution.  Catcher  meanwhile had always been viewed as a get to Vazquez so he can stopgap until Swihart is ready situation.
 
The reality is that Vaz is too much of an uncertainty following TJ to expect anything from him in 2016.  By the end of 2016 Moncada will be on the doorstep and most likely best fit at 3B.  A year or so behind that it'll be Devers on the doorstep assuming he can stick at 3B (this year was a big positive sign to that end).  So 3B is better stocked long term than C.  There is also a real dearth of worthwhile catchers across baseball.  If both Vaz and Swihart are legitimate starting catchers the Red Sox will likely have a pretty easy time getting a lot of value for the one they're willing to move.  At the 2017 trade deadline or later, as until then there's no need to jump the gun.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Blake was a HS shortstop, FYI.  Also, the Giants have played Posey at 1B becaues: 1. they had Sandoval there for all of Posey's career until this past season and 2. they move Posey from catcher as a part time gig to save his knees.  If Swihart is being moved from catcher to get Vazquez behind the dish we're basically looking at a Craig Biggio situation where the goal is for Vaz to be the full time C and Swihart to transition into a different position long term.
 
As for directing him to 3B, up until recent the club has had a cavalcade of 3B options.  Middlebrooks, Cecchini, Sandoval, now Moncada, Devers, and Chavis as well.  They've had some pretty bad flame outs but third base has always been viewed as a position one more year away from having a long term solution.  Catcher  meanwhile had always been viewed as a get to Vazquez so he can stopgap until Swihart is ready situation.
 
The reality is that Vaz is too much of an uncertainty following TJ to expect anything from him in 2016.  By the end of 2016 Moncada will be on the doorstep and most likely best fit at 3B.  A year or so behind that it'll be Devers on the doorstep assuming he can stick at 3B (this year was a big positive sign to that end).  So 3B is better stocked long term than C.  There is also a real dearth of worthwhile catchers across baseball.  If both Vaz and Swihart are legitimate starting catchers the Red Sox will likely have a pretty easy time getting a lot of value for the one they're willing to move.  At the 2017 trade deadline or later, as until then there's no need to jump the gun.

I agree in that relying on CV as the starting C is a bit iffy. Even if he's completely healthy I think Swihart is the starter anyways. I know CV has superb D plus the often mentioned pitch framing skills. But I thinks that's a declining skill - in the sense that Blue doesn't like being fooled - and will decline in importance moving forward. Even if you do accept the skill's magnitude, he has not demonstrated a major league bat. That's not to say he won't ever get his ops north of .650 .. His minimum offensive level is similar to JBJ's I think.