Tres Boeheims: the 2021 Syracuse Basketball Thread

BaseballJones

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Syracuse athletics has really become largely irrelevant.
Seriously. Football kinda sorta almost makes a bowl game but has been terrible for a while now except for the occasional surprising year. Basketball has just spiraled downward, except for the occasional run in the NCAA tournament. At least we still have lacrosse.

Right?

RIGHT????
 

bsj

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Seriously. Football kinda sorta almost makes a bowl game but has been terrible for a while now except for the occasional surprising year. Basketball has just spiraled downward, except for the occasional run in the NCAA tournament. At least we still have lacrosse.

Right?

RIGHT????
I mean if you really think about it Syracuse went from being hands down the best team in the nation 20 years ago (remember that Final Four streak) to just another good team now.

Thank god for the womens sports
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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It’s sad, but part of me wonders how much of it was inevitable. Maybe it’s just getting older but college sports holds very little appeal to me these days. I feel like the quality of play in college basketball has really gone downhill. These guys just don’t play together long enough for teams to have any kind of identity. And college football has to be the most boring and pointless sport around.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Well the one-and-done phenomenon in college hoops obviously has had a huge impact on that, PiaB.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Yeah, that and the transfer portal I think has been pretty terrible for the game, IMO. I think back to some of these really good Cuse teams- guys like Etan Thomas and Jason Hart and whomever playing four years, it could never happen today. But guys learned to play as a team, teams had an identity, the rivalries really mattered….They had to go the ACC but things have never been the same as they were with the big East.

-End of old man rant-
 

wonderland

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Yeah, that and the transfer portal I think has been pretty terrible for the game, IMO. I think back to some of these really good Cuse teams- guys like Etan Thomas and Jason Hart and whomever playing four years, it could never happen today. But guys learned to play as a team, teams had an identity, the rivalries really mattered….They had to go the ACC but things have never been the same as they were with the big East.

-End of old man rant-
as a West Virginia fan, I feel the same. Everything I grew up with is gone and it’s all so soulless now. it’s only going to get worse.
 

The Filthy One

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Just...ugh. I momentarily regretted getting rid of cable since it meant I can't watch Syracuse games (without some shenanigans). But unlike many other regrets, this one passed relatively quickly.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It’s sad, but part of me wonders how much of it was inevitable. Maybe it’s just getting older but college sports holds very little appeal to me these days. I feel like the quality of play in college basketball has really gone downhill. These guys just don’t play together long enough for teams to have any kind of identity. And college football has to be the most boring and pointless sport around.
If it’s something you enjoyed in the past try and find yourself a mid-major conference to follow. Between ESPN+, ESPN3 and other options you could watch more games from the Summit, Ohio Valley, MAC, Missouri Valley, etc than you could Big East games in the 80’s/90’s. There are some excellent coaches/programs hidden out there along with being a stepping stone for an up and comer. You’ll still have to deal with all the transfers nowadays but the one-and-done is rare in the mid-major arena.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Embarrassing season continues. At what point does the AD feel some heat? Athletics have pretty much collapsed on his watch, across the board.
 

JimD

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Embarrassing season continues. At what point does the AD feel some heat? Athletics have pretty much collapsed on his watch, across the board.
Wildhack arguably should have already been out the door based on the Quentin Hillsman WBB debacle.
 

BaseballJones

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That was an abysmal - but unsurprising - performance today at Duke. Lack of athleticism REALLY showed today, as Duke pressured SU on defense all over the court. SU had a hard time making basic passes. Everything was very hard work. And on the other end, Duke got whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted. It was just a matter of whether their shots were going in or not.

9-10 and going straight down the tubes. Lovely.

I still think this team can be a handful for good opponents *when they shoot well* but obviously when they don't, they have no chance at all. They can't win on defense, that's for sure.
 

BaseballJones

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Getting owned by hapless Pitt last night has to be the last straw for the SU AD. You just can't tolerate the construction of a team that (a) has nepotism galore, and (b) is this bad. Now Buddy is a legit player, but Jimmy really is a bench guy. But Jimmy's playing huge minutes. And even Buddy, despite some impressive rankings in the ACC, has been pretty bad much of the year.

And the worst part is...I don't see them getting any better anytime soon. So keeping Jim on board seems like a ticket to nowhere. So disappointing. It's been a truly great run, but it's time to move on.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Wholeheartedly agree. Despite the struggles, Jim is playing his usual 6-7 guys and has buried Benny Williams, while trashing him when asked, who will surely transfer. What a mess.
 

BaseballJones

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Wholeheartedly agree. Despite the struggles, Jim is playing his usual 6-7 guys and has buried Benny Williams, while trashing him when asked, who will surely transfer. What a mess.
Yeah THAT will REALLY piss me off as a fan. Insisting on playing Jimmy (who is probably better than Benny right now, but clearly Benny has way more upside for down the road, and we are at a place in the season where this year is irrelevant) instead of Benny, only to then subsequently lose Benny to the transfer portal would be just an incomprehensible case of mismanagement by Coach B. I get he's your son and all. But still.
 

The Filthy One

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Yeah THAT will REALLY piss me off as a fan. Insisting on playing Jimmy (who is probably better than Benny right now, but clearly Benny has way more upside for down the road, and we are at a place in the season where this year is irrelevant) instead of Benny, only to then subsequently lose Benny to the transfer portal would be just an incomprehensible case of mismanagement by Coach B. I get he's your son and all. But still.
Not just lose him to the transfer portal, but petition the NCAA to get another year of Jimmy, increasing the chances that he loses more guys from next year's class to the portal, all to run back this year's current sub-.500 starting core. It's a complete mess. Boeheim has always prioritized winning today over player development. I guess you could do both when you were regularly bringing in top 50 recruits. But with the new transfer rules, even projects can't be counted on to stay multiple years. Guys like Jerami Grant (14MPG as a frosh) and Josh Pace (didn't crack 15MPG until his Jr year) who put up with a year or two on the bench developing and then broke out as upper-classmen seem like relics from the fucking Cold War at this point. And those players were sitting on teams that were competitive in the Big East.
 

BaseballJones

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We could talk a long time about how broken the transfer portal system is, but that would take us away from the point here, which is that Jim Boeheim needs to go. For all the good he's done Syracuse athletics - and honestly, it's been a WORLD of good - it's time. It couldn't be more obvious.
 

BaseballJones

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Not that it matters at this point but that was a great win last night against Wake. Shot the light out, which is what they'll need to do to have a chance against the good teams.
 

Bleedred

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Father/Son weekend at the Fraternity this weekend. We're going to the Louisville game on Saturday, which will be fun?
 

BaseballJones

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I’m so glad you got to see a good game in the Dome. I have such fond memories of watching SU hoops there as a student and then when I lived in Syracuse for several years after. Awesome experience when the place is rocking.

SU has won three in a row now. Scoring tons of points. I’ve said all along if they shoot well they can beat anyone (not that Louisville is any good but still) and if they don’t shoot well they can’t beat anyone.

They’ve shot well recently and are fun to watch when it’s all clicking. The season is lost but maybe they can somehow sneak into the NIT.

Key goals moving forward have to be the development of Edwards (who is looking like a legit NBA prospect), while somehow convincing him to not transfer or turn pro, and Benny, who probably wants to transfer, so keeping him around will be important for next year.
 

Bleedred

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I’m so glad you got to see a good game in the Dome. I have such fond memories of watching SU hoops there as a student and then when I lived in Syracuse for several years after. Awesome experience when the place is rocking.

SU has won three in a row now. Scoring tons of points. I’ve said all along if they shoot well they can beat anyone (not that Louisville is any good but still) and if they don’t shoot well they can’t beat anyone.

They’ve shot well recently and are fun to watch when it’s all clicking. The season is lost but maybe they can somehow sneak into the NIT.

Key goals moving forward have to be the development of Edwards (who is looking like a legit NBA prospect), while somehow convincing him to not transfer or turn pro, and Benny, who probably wants to transfer, so keeping him around will be important for next year.
I know Benny was a highly touted prospect and I accept that Boeheim has absolutely killed his confidence and misused him, but he played a lot today and showed very little. I cannot judge him on this one game (and the few I've seen on television) but I would have thought he'd "take over" a little bit in the last 6 minutes today. Instead, he pretty much disappeared and did nothing.
 

The Filthy One

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Jesse Edwards broke his wrist and is now done for the year. You could make the argument that he's been the team's MVP, so the chances this becomes Boeheim's first losing season are now pretty high. Boeheim will use this to develop guys who haven't played much like John Bol Ajak. Just kidding, he'll play Jimmy 40mpg now.
 

BaseballJones

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Huge huge huge loss. They actually had a slim chance of ripping off a bunch more wins - they're playing so much better - and possibly sneak onto the bubble. Now? Forget it.

Anselem needs to step up in a HUGE way now.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Getting absolutely humiliated by Duke at the Dome. At least cuse can brag about having the largest attendance for a game again this year. Ugh
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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After this year would be ideal, but it’s pretty clear that he’s never going to willingly walk away and they’d never fire him.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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If they do fire him, is the program likely to become meaningfully better? Has Indiana done anything since Bob Knight?
 

mauf

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Syracuse made the Final Four six years ago and has reached the Sweet Sixteen twice in the four tournaments played since then. And they’re 9-8 in the ACC currently. He’s not attracting the talent he once did, but it’s far from clear they’d fare better with a new coach.
 

BaseballJones

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SU is likely to lose to UNC and then to Miami, and finish the regular season at 15-16, an epic disaster for this program. Yes, they've had some nice NCAA tourney runs, which is awesome. But they should be MUCH better than this. I don't expect to go back to the days when they were always in the top 10, but they should be a much better program than they are now. It's super annoying.
 

RedOctober3829

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Syracuse made the Final Four six years ago and has reached the Sweet Sixteen twice in the four tournaments played since then. And they’re 9-8 in the ACC currently. He’s not attracting the talent he once did, but it’s far from clear they’d fare better with a new coach.
9-8 in this year's ACC isn't exactly an accomplishment. Yes, they've gone that far in the NCAA's but each run should be considered Cinderella style runs. 15-16 they made the FF as a 10 seed, 17-18 they were in the First Four and made a S16 run, and last year they were an 11 seed. It's great that they did that, but obviously their body of work in those seasons made them double digit seeds. They haven't been higher than an 8 seed since their first year in the ACC(13-14) when they had a great year at 27-5(14-4 in ACC) and a 3 seed but lost in 2nd round. Sure, the end result of those Cinderella runs are great but it's not an indication of where they're at as a program. I'm a UConn fan so I know about magical runs as lower seeds but they are lightning in a bottle. Since 13-14, Syracuse is 74-69 in the ACC.
 

BaseballJones

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SU (2008-09 to 2013-14)
28-10
30-5
27-8
34-3
30-10
28-6
TOT: 177-42 (.808)

SU (2016-17 to 2021-22)
19-15
23-14
20-14
18-14
18-10
15-14 (so far)
TOT: 113-81 (.582)

Like...night and day.
 

BaseballJones

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And it's not like they are known for playing strong non-league schedules either so that means the later years are really not good.
Correct. I mean this year, they've been beaten by Duke twice, Auburn, and Nova, but they've had some terrible losses this year.

- Lost by 15 (!) at home to Colgate (!!!!)
- Lost to Georgetown (yuck)
- Lost to Pitt (double yuck)

Those three games that should have been pretty easy wins would make them 18-11, and very much on the NCAA tourney bubble. 18-11 looks really different than 15-14.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Even when they had the succession plan with Hopkins like a decade ago, Boeheim hardly seemed interested. I could be wrong, but I don’t believe he’s ever even suggested that he’d retire at some point. He’s never leaving willingly.
 

JimD

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Hopkins might be available if UW doesn't turn their season around quickly.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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SU couldn't even inbound the ball cleanly against UNC last night in the waning moments of regulation and a one-point lead. I get that SU never gets any action going to the basket in their out of bounds sets, but to not even be able to inbound the ball? Just godawful.

Boeheim's line about "having a bad year" is nonsense. As we know, SU has been mediocre for a long time now, are in the midst of a castrophic season filled with nepotism (though Buddy is a pretty solid player and Jimmy is a legit D1 player; he just shouldn't be playing 37 minutes a night for a team in the ACC), and - and this is key - there's no hope for a better future. I mean, what about SU hoops excites Orange fans for 2022-23 right now? Here's who might be returning:

Ajak - 6'10" So.
Anselem - 6'10" So.
Edwards - 6'11" Jr.
Girard - 6'1" Jr.
Torrence - 6'3" Jr.
Williams - 6'8" Fr.

That's IF Williams sticks around, and IF Edwards doesn't declare for the NBA - which he'd be crazy to do, but lots of SU guys declare way too soon so it wouldn't shock me. Ajak doesn't help much at all. Anselem is fine as a backup. Edwards is pretty good. Torrence is ok as a point guard. Girard is decent as a shooting guard, but he's too small to play the 2, and not a good enough ball handler to play the 1. He's an undersized shooting guard who provides no defense at the top of the zone. Williams has terrific athletic ability but has done nothing this year. Still, he at least has potential.

Swider and Buddy both have another year of eligibility thanks to Covid, so obviously they'd help if they stayed. But then that would mean essentially running out the same lineup that is a .500 team this year. So who knows if that's even a good thing.

Coming in next year are two 4-star recruits: Chris Bunch (6'7") and Justin Taylor (6'6"). Both could make an impact. Or neither could make an impact. They also have a few 3-star recruits, and who knows with them.

SU just doesn't have anything to get the heart racing. Nothing REALLY to look forward to next year. I mean, maybe, if everything breaks right, they get 22 wins and a 10 seed in the NCAA tournament. Maybe. I guess that qualifies as a successful season for Syracuse these days.

UGH.
 

The Filthy One

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I would be ok with a mediocre season next year if it seems like it's building to something the season after. I would be fine with him playing a bunch of freshmen, losing, but then being an improved team in 23-24. Cuse really needs to hit on a few of these lower-ranked recruits. That has been a hallmark of Boeheim's success - for every Pearl, Coleman, or Melo, he's had complementary players who were not wildly recruited that have been almost as important to the program (Sherman Douglas, Hakim Warrick, CJ Fair, etc.). That's how the program used to work (and occasionally still does -- you can see the progress Jesse Edwards has made, for instance). If he can keep Williams for two more years and get improvement out of him, get something out of a few of the new guys...Maybe? I'm just not sure that's how college basketball works anymore.
 

BaseballJones

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Boeheim had already said his sons and Swider are not returning. I’d expect next year to be pretty mediocre too.
Oh I had missed that. I am a little surprised. Jimmy yeah, he's already been in college forever. But Buddy? Not sure he's quite ready for the NBA, but who knows. Same with Swider. I do wonder what their NBA prospects are. Jimmy has none, but Buddy is a 6'6" shooting guard with deep range. Maybe could ride the pine for someone and become a usable NBA player. Swider is similar, except he's bigger and is a forward. I tend to doubt that either will make it in the NBA though, and will likely have to make their way in Europe or something.
 

bsj

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If we have an internal succession and that means the 2-3 stays in place, this program is done. Kids barely wanted to come here to play the zone when they had a HOF coach running it. Without JB? We will become DePaul.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Is playing for Boeheim really appealing to 17-18 year old kids? I’m skeptical that it matters anymore.
Also, Benny Williams done for the season.