Trevor Story had surgery on his right UCL and is expected to miss time

Petagine in a Bottle

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Probably true, but in this case what exactly is down the road? Mayer won't be a factor until at minimum late 2024, so unless he's holding out for more than 2 years it shouldn't be an issue. He can play short, Arroyo can stay at 2nd, and then when Story comes back Arroyo becomes the utility guy, something they don't really have on the roster right now.
Fair enough, and it sounds like Story could miss most of the year anyways so probably not something worth worrying about at this point. I don’t know what Andrus is looking for but he’s at the point where he may have to settle for what he can get and the Sox can clearly offer playing time.

Hell, one could probably make a case for signing two veteran IF.
 

StuckOnYouk

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We aren’t making the playoffs most likely, just make sure you don’t finish the year over the first threshold and then we will see where the farm and “cap space” is looking like. Ext off-season where we should be in better shape.
 

scottyno

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I acknowledge the legitimacy and data foundation of your response. Jose Iglesias is but what he used to be. And who the hell are we?

We've come down in the world: the cost is still cheaper than anything he will be compared to the currently available. He will cost barely a million.

Let's own up to the place we've come down to: Despair.
If he really will cost that little they should have signed him already to be the utility guy. He got $5m last year though coming off a worse season though so I'm not so sure he'll be that cheap.
 

johnlos

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I acknowledge the legitimacy and data foundation of your response. Jose Iglesias is but what he used to be. And who the hell are we?

We've come down in the world: the cost is still cheaper than anything he will be compared to the currently available. He will cost barely a million.

Let's own up to the place we've come down to: Despair.
Amen :p
 

LogansDad

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Playing in Coors will do that. He might be coming but there are better free agent options available. Story also combined that with gold glove caliber defense which Iggy doesn't have anymore, Story to Iggy is a pretty massive drop off.
His numbers were better on the road than at home.

59943

Edit: This is not me advocating for or against Iglesias, but I will point out that he still has a really solidly low K rate, and it feels like that is something that the organization is currently focusing on.
 
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KillerBs

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I read the Angels and Dodgers are in on Andrus and with our obvious need I expect he is driving a harder bargain than what he is worth.

I could live with Iglesias. He would be fun enough to watch for a summer, but I would rather get someone who is actually an excellent defensive shortstop rather than one who used to be. Bloom must know Andrew Velazquez from his days in Tampa's system. He can play the position. Rojas from Miami continues to make sense, but I am not trading top level prospects for Miguel Rojas. Niko Goodrum is in the fold already of course. Apparently he is a decent defensive shortstop. He could be a folk here around here by May. In any event, it looks like we are about to find out what a replacement level SS really is. Nice test for Bloom and baseball ops.
 

sean1562

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Hernandez to 2b and Duran gets an extended CF tryout? Might as well see if he can improve with extended playing time.
 

plolli

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Desperate times call for desperate measures. Who plays shortstop for the majority of 2023? Maybe we can get Iglesias. He seems play a bit better in Boston than anywhere else it. However, 2023 certainly seems like a placeholder year at best, particularly now that Story is out for at least half a season. I realize it's unprecedented for players to make a leap from High A to the majors, but Mayer seems like a reasonable possibility. I know there's a lot for him to develop, but for a team that's likely not going all that far in 2023, I'm not sure there would be a major problem developing that skill set at the major league level. It would certainly provide some excitement, and Lord knows, the 2023 Red Sox are going to need quite a bit of that. Xander at 19, Devers at 21, and Tony C at 20 all provided a spark. Why not?

I'm sure I'll be criticized for even suggesting this, but I'd certainly like to see Marcelo get a shot as the starting shortstop in 2023 if his spring training suggests he can handle it. I don't think giving him the audition would be a crushing blow to him if he doesn't make it, and there are certainly players who have broken in at a similar age (Xander and Robin Yount seem the best comps to me). Until Story comes back I believe Arroyo would be a serviceable second baseman for half the year, and Story can then slot into what would be the best position for him. I am waiting for the inevitable negatives on this move, but it doesn't seem like it's a hopeless choice at this point,
 

mr_smith02

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Desperate times call for desperate measures. Who plays shortstop for the majority of 2023? Maybe we can get Iglesias. He seems play a bit better in Boston than anywhere else it. However, 2023 certainly seems like a placeholder year at best, particularly now that Story is out for at least half a season. I realize it's unprecedented for players to make a leap from High A to the majors, but Mayer seems like a reasonable possibility. I know there's a lot for him to develop, but for a team that's likely not going all that far in 2023, I'm not sure there would be a major problem developing that skill set at the major league level. It would certainly provide some excitement, and Lord knows, the 2023 Red Sox are going to need quite a bit of that. Xander at 19, Devers at 21, and Tony C at 20 all provided a spark. Why not?

I'm sure I'll be criticized for even suggesting this, but I'd certainly like to see Marcelo get a shot as the starting shortstop in 2023 if his spring training suggests he can handle it. I don't think giving him the audition would be a crushing blow to him if he doesn't make it, and there are certainly players who have broken in at a similar age (Xander and Robin Yount seem the best comps to me). Until Story comes back I believe Arroyo would be a serviceable second baseman for half the year, and Story can then slot into what would be the best position for him. I am waiting for the inevitable negatives on this move, but it doesn't seem like it's a hopeless choice at this point,
This is not necessarily a criticism but a major concern I would have with bringing up a player before he is truly ready...one's psychological makeup can often prove to be equally, if not more, important than their physical skill. Bobby Dalbec quickly comes to mind (I am not claiming Bobby had the potential that Mayer does), watching him struggle so mightily felt cruel at times and I have to imagine it took a mental toll on Bobby. The injury to a player should not be the sole reason to expedite the track for a young player with real potential, IMHO.
 

Coachster

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If we’re deciding we’re unlikely to contend, this isn’t the worst idea.
It actually may be the worst idea. He’s a bad outfielder with a dental floss arm and a worse attitude.

One of our issues is that we haven’t signed any minor league contracts (except Niko) because we don’t have 40 man space. Somebody signed Bradley Zimmer to a minor league contract a couple weeks ago. Now, he can’t hit major league pitching, but he can play center. However, because we have Caleb Ort and his ilk protected on the 40 we can’t take flyers like that.
 

plolli

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This is not necessarily a criticism but a major concern I would have with bringing up a player before he is truly ready...one's psychological makeup can often prove to be equally, if not more, important than their physical skill. Bobby Dalbec quickly comes to mind (I am not claiming Bobby had the potential that Mayer does), watching him struggle so mightily felt cruel at times and I have to imagine it took a mental toll on Bobby. The injury to a player should not be the sole reason to expedite the track for a young player with real potential, IMHO.
Good point made. The fast track clearly seemed to be a problem for Dalbec. I'm not sure if the same would be true for Mayer. What little I have read about him suggests a maturity and demeanor that may be similar to what was shown by Xander. It's hard to judge who can handle the pressure of such an early promotion. However, given the NESN comment from Bloom, the possibility seems remote.
 

Blizzard of 1978

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His numbers were better on the road than at home.

View attachment 59943

Edit: This is not me advocating for or against Iglesias, but I will point out that he still has a really solidly low K rate, and it feels like that is something that the organization is currently focusing on.
All I know is when Iggy came back to the Red Sox in 2021 he looked like a magician in the field compared to others in the infield. Wish he could have played against the Astros in those 2021 playoffs.
 

mauf

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If we don't find a good replacement, we're in for a long (and painful) 2023 season :(
Why? How many wins was a full season of Story going to be worth?

Before the Story injury, I thought ownership would be happy with 85 wins and another year of progress on the farm. Now, I think 81 wins and farm progress gets Bloom attaboys from his bosses.

I think ownership has set the bar (and the budget) too low, but change 85 to 90 and 81 to 86 and the story stays the same — there’s only a narrow band of circumstances where Story’s status makes or breaks the season.
 

MtPleasant Paul

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Let me hesitantly suggest David Hamilton, acquired in the Renfroe trade, as a fill-in at second. He's the guy who stole 70 bases last year at Portland with a 90% success rate. That's probably why the Sox protected him in the Rule 5 draft. He is athletic but is not highly regarded as a hitter or an infielder. Last year he had a 338 OBP and a 740 OPS.

But consider this. He played very little baseball in 2019 and 2020. Last year was only his second season in pro ball. He came on toward the end with a 1.151 OPS in September, albeit in only 14 games. He was the Eastern League player of the month. He could be in the midst of a development cycle.

Because of his speed and the premium on speed under the new rules he could well be the 26th man next year, but he could be more than that.

Let's not pass up the likes of Iglesias or Andrus, but maybe this guy, too, helps to resolve the 2B-SS conundrum.
 

kazuneko

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Hernandez to 2b and Duran gets an extended CF tryout? Might as well see if he can improve with extended playing time.
Is Fenway really the place for him to learn how to play the outfield? He is not a major league fielder at any position. It’s hard not to feel like he needs to either work on these issues in the minors or get a fresh start with a new team.
 

BaseballJones

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I liked a post up thread that suggested that after Story is back from this surgery, he will quite likely be full guns at shortstop again. I don’t know if that’s true but if it is, that’s maybe even worth the lost time (from a long term perspective).

Silver linings?
 

JM3

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I think we're more likely to see Wilyer Abreu than Rafaela as a result of this.

Weird hitting profile last year. Walks a ton, strikes out a ton (over half his PAs were one or the other after the Sox traded for him).

He's not that highly rated of a prospect but the Red Sox still chose to protect him over people like Thad Ward so they must think he's almost ready. I don't know that I necessarily see it, especially since he projects more to me a corner OF than a CF in the Majors, but maybe they see something I don't.

DHam could be a fun addition too if he actually figured something out at the end of last year. 12 homers & 70 steals is an interesting combo, even if he was 24 in AA last year.

Idk I'd rather see what we have than trade the future for short term mediocrity.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Why? How many wins was a full season of Story going to be worth?

Before the Story injury, I thought ownership would be happy with 85 wins and another year of progress on the farm. Now, I think 81 wins and farm progress gets Bloom attaboys from his bosses.

I think ownership has set the bar (and the budget) too low, but change 85 to 90 and 81 to 86 and the story stays the same — there’s only a narrow band of circumstances where Story’s status makes or breaks the season.
By this math, are you saying a full season of Story is worth 8 WAR? He’s never done more than 7 bWAR.

More realistically, this injury costs the Sox maybe 2 wins or something? So I’d say even a narrower band than what you are saying.

At this point, if they’re gonna be somewhat bargain hunting for a SS anyway, I’d like to see them target a glove-first SS to at least shore up their infield defense. Iglesias makes a lot of sense even though his defense has dropped off from when he first came up.
 

JM3

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By this math, are you saying a full season of Story is worth 8 WAR? He’s never done more than 7 bWAR.

More realistically, this injury costs the Sox maybe 2 wins or something? So I’d say even a narrower band than what you are saying.
Assuming he actually comes back midway & they can find replacement level play in his stead, I think that's correct.
 

mauf

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By this math, are you saying a full season of Story is worth 8 WAR? He’s never done more than 7 bWAR.

More realistically, this injury costs the Sox maybe 2 wins or something? So I’d say even a narrower band than what you are saying.

At this point, if they’re gonna be somewhat bargain hunting for a SS anyway, I’d like to see them target a glove-first SS to at least shore up their infield defense. Iglesias makes a lot of sense even though his defense has dropped off from when he first came up.
I think it’s unrealistic to assume Story will be back around 7/1 and as good as we expected before we knew he was hurt, but I agree with your point — my numbers overstated the likely impact of his injury.
 

kevinengel

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Does Royce Lewis become available with the Twins signing Correa? He’s coming back from the ACL injury but appears to be on track to come back early next year. His trade value is comparable to Houck on BTV. I imagine the price is much higher than that but he seems like the right type of guy to trade value for.
 

Salem's Lot

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The timing of this makes very little sense.
It makes sense when you look at it from the player’s perspective. No athlete wants to get surgery unless it’s the only option. And I don’t blame him. I wouldn’t get cut just because it fits the team’s timeline better when there’s a chance that rest will take care of it.
 

OurF'ingCity

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I think it’s unrealistic to assume Story will be back around 7/1 and as good as we expected before we knew he was hurt, but I agree with your point — my numbers overstated the likely impact of his injury.
Weren’t the reports that 4-6 months is the average recovery time for this kind of surgery? Assuming that’s true, one would think late June/early July is realistic unless he has a setback.
 

8slim

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Weren’t the reports that 4-6 months is the average recovery time for this kind of surgery? Assuming that’s true, one would think late June/early July is realistic unless he has a setback.
It’s hard to square 4 months with Chaim suggesting he may be out for all of 2023. I’m not sure anyone really knows what recovery is going to look like at this point. Late June would be great but I’m not getting my hopes up given the uncertainty.
 

OurF'ingCity

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It’s hard to square 4 months with Chaim suggesting he may be out for all of 2023. I’m not sure anyone really knows what recovery is going to look like at this point. Late June would be great but I’m not getting my hopes up given the uncertainty.
Wow, catching up on that press conference, I didn’t realize Bloom had said that. That’s pretty dire - maybe Mauf’s 4-win-decline prediction will prove right after all.
 

simplicio

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Did Chaim actually suggest that they expect him to be gone all season? It sounded to me like they were trying to plan for that in case the worst case scenario manifested.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Did Chaim actually suggest that they expect him to be gone all season? It sounded to me like they were trying to plan for that in case the worst case scenario manifested.
After this meh offseason, he wouldn't be saying that unless it were a real possibility. Not a certainty, but certainly a real possibility.
 

RG33

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You think that Story will play shortstop again? (in best Trevor Howard brogue) I DOUBT IT.

I consider that the tail of a very long tail risk gamble.

Iggy Now.
Yeah, this seems like an odd take to me as well. From reading, his procedure is a step below TJ surgery and we have dozens and dozens of examples of pitchers who come back stronger, sometimes gaining velocity, so I am not sure why it would be different for a middle infielder who probably makes 5-10 throws a game at max effort.

I lean towards the “silver linings” side and think this may end up being a net positive over the life of his contract if we get 2+ years of peak SS defense from him.
 

nattysez

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It’s hard to square 4 months with Chaim suggesting he may be out for all of 2023. I’m not sure anyone really knows what recovery is going to look like at this point. Late June would be great but I’m not getting my hopes up given the uncertainty.
Hopefully this is the product of a realization that throwing out a date range in terms of when someone will be back on the field creates unnecessary pressure for both the player and team. Better to under promise and over deliver.
 

johnlos

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I think we're more likely to see Wilyer Abreu than Rafaela as a result of this.

Weird hitting profile last year. Walks a ton, strikes out a ton (over half his PAs were one or the other after the Sox traded for him).

He's not that highly rated of a prospect but the Red Sox still chose to protect him over people like Thad Ward so they must think he's almost ready. I don't know that I necessarily see it, especially since he projects more to me a corner OF than a CF in the Majors, but maybe they see something I don't.

DHam could be a fun addition too if he actually figured something out at the end of last year. 12 homers & 70 steals is an interesting combo, even if he was 24 in AA last year.

Idk I'd rather see what we have than trade the future for short term mediocrity.
Agreed. We traded Vazquez for Abreu and Valdez because our IF/OF options at the AAA level were not great. So they seem like the logical fill-ins to try and win a job in the spring. Don't see any reason to rashly call up any of our bigger prospects that were all in A-ball most of 2022.
 

Sox and Rocks

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Or maybe Julio Iglesias.

At least Tom Warner would be happy.
Enrique Iglesias. He could be our hero, baby...

Criticism of the timing/"putting this off" are unfounded. Yes, it's frustrating, and it seems like Sale TJ redux, but this situation is obviously different. And good on Kike for calling it out.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Enrique Iglesias. He could be our hero, baby...

Criticism of the timing/"putting this off" are unfounded. Yes, it's frustrating, and it seems like Sale TJ redux, but this situation is obviously different. And good on Kike for calling it out.
Merloni, of all people, also debunked this by talking about typical offseason rest and throwing programs.

That being said, obviously this is a crisis situation. They're paying out a 6/140 contract and so far have gotten 94 games of 102 OPS+ offense and now a lost 2023 season. It's also reasonable to expect that Story will never be able to play SS again once he has recovered.