UCL Group Stage MW 4 Gamethread: You Again?!??

Zososoxfan

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MW 3 reverse fixtures! Home teams listed first.

Tuesday 11 October
Copenhagen-MANC (early window)
Haifa-Juve (early window)
Milan-Chelsea
Dortmund-Sevilla
Celtic-RBL
Zagreb-RB Salzburg
PSG-Benfica
Shakhtar-Real


Wednesday 12 October
Atleti-Brugge (early window)
Napoli-Ajax (early window)
Barca-Inter
Leverkusen-Porto
Rangers-Pool
Sporting-Marseille
Spurs-Frankfurt
Pilzen-Bayern
 

HowBoutDemSox

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In the first half hour, City has had:
  • A goal chalked off by VAR
  • A penalty saved by the Copenhagen keeper
  • A red on Sergio Gomez for a DOGSO
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Juve 2-0 down.

This feels like one of these inevitable endgame scenarios where the manager is just waiting to get sacked, making weird selection decisions in the process, and the players have downed tools.

It will be interesting to see what Juve does if Allegri's position becomes untenable. They probably want to at least explore the idea of Conte next summer but this season has a long way to run and there has to be some pressure to bring somebody in who might be able to scrape their way back to the CL places. Tuchel is out there...
 

Zososoxfan

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Can Allegri keep his job if they lose this?
No.

Juve 2-0 down.

This feels like one of these inevitable endgame scenarios where the manager is just waiting to get sacked, making weird selection decisions in the process, and the players have downed tools.

It will be interesting to see what Juve does if Allegri's position becomes untenable. They probably want to at least explore the idea of Conte next summer but this season has a long way to run and there has to be some pressure to bring somebody in who might be able to scrape their way back to the CL places. Tuchel is out there...
It's gotta be Tuchel. Frankly, they're lucky he's out there to begin with. Doubt Conte leaves if Spurs advance to UCL knockouts and remain competitive for a top 4 spot in EPL. Conte seems to hold a lot of sway at the club and will likely get to push that again in January, with next summer as a key window to shape the squad in his mold.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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It's gotta be Tuchel. Frankly, they're lucky he's out there to begin with. Doubt Conte leaves if Spurs advance to UCL knockouts and remain competitive for a top 4 spot in EPL. Conte seems to hold a lot of sway at the club and will likely get to push that again in January, with next summer as a key window to shape the squad in his mold.
I agree Tuchel seems like the best fit given all the circumstances.

I definitely can't see a scenario where Conte leaves Spurs mid-season. He has a contract, he has a better chance to win things there than at Juve this season, etc.

Next summer? I think its very hard to say which job would be more attractive to Conte in theory. But my suspicion is that Juve would not want to appoint an interim manager until then and jeopardize their chances of making the CL for next year. They're only seven points off fourth right now and Tuchel is coming off a job where he turned a team around very impressively mid-season.
 

Zososoxfan

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Wow. Juve lose 2-0 in Haifa. Like the announcer said, Haifa are definitely going to play hard and try to nab that third spot. Hard to see Juve caring much from here on out unless there's a managerial change before the Group Stage ends.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Just saw the Tomori replay, definitely on the soft side. Looks like a choppy game overall, 17 total fouls given, five yellows and the red in the first half, maybe I’ll skip the replay of this one.
 

OCST

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No one watching RM-Shaktar? Shaktar with 1-0 lead at 90+4 and RM score with seconds left, Rudinger (?? Spanish feed with sound off) flying into the box to head home but horrific clash of heads with Shaktar keeper who is still down. Rudiger (or whoever it is) helped off covered in blood.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I have been hearing buzz about Enzo Fernandez for a while. Looks legit here for sure.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the big transfer targets of summer 2023, not Bellingham level but in a tier or two below. I could see a lot of teams - Liverpool, Barcelona, Arsenal, Chelsea - being interested in this kind of 6/8 midfielder.

He just got his first call up recently but a manager with real balls might elevate him past the likes of Guido Rodriguez and Leandro Paredes into the lineup at the World Cup. What’s your take on him, @Zososoxfan?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_lOTBR-v9k
 
Last edited:

Zososoxfan

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I have been hearing buzz about Enzo Fernandez for a while. Looks legit here for sure.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the big transfer targets of summer 2023, not Bellingham level but in a tier or two below. I could see a lot of teams - Liverpool, Barcelona, Arsenal, Chelsea - being interested in this kind of 6/8 midfielder.

He just got his first call up recently but a manager with real balls might elevate him past the likes of Guido Rodriguez and Leandro Paredes into the lineup at the World Cup. What’s your take on him, @Zososoxfan?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_lOTBR-v9k
Oh he comin'! He got his first 2 caps in the most recent Int'l break and he subbed on for Paredes after 65 mins in the first match against Honduras, and for Guido Rodriguez after 55 mins in the second match against Jamaica. So it does seem like those are the 3 options at DMF for the squad, but Enzo is the most attacking of the 3. While I also think he can play as an 8 in the NT system, Mac Allister is probably the first choice to spell De Paul or GLC.

I don't think it's a matter of huevos whether he plays or not--rather, I expect he'll be used when the team needs more fluidity and overall attack, and the other team isn't pressing. In sum, he's not as defensively strong as Guido, and he has a drastically different skillset than Paredes. Guido's by far the best tackler, averages more blocks, doesn't get dribbled often, and is about even with Enzo on interceptions. He's also a lot bigger at 1.85m (6'1'') to Enzo's 1.78 (5'10''). Paredes is 1.80 (5'11''). Paredes has a better touch and is more press resistant than Enzo, and can spray the ball all over the field but he's not mobile. He averages more key passes than Enzo but they're tied on assists. Enzo is a much better ball carrier/dribbler. Surprisingly, Enzo's got a higher long ball rate but that doesn't fit the player profiles I'm familiar with. In any event, I suspect Paredes will start against sides expected to sit in, and Enzo will come on late if Argentina need to chase since he can definitely get his shot off and looks to do so. He can also play in the group stage to keep the other 6s rested and out of yellow card accumulation trouble.

He showed out in his first NT appearance, as his pressure led to Messi's non-pen goal against Honduras, and he also rocked the post on a shot from outside the box. Interestingly, he played as the base of the MF3 as the DMF for a bit alongside De Paul and GLC, but then when Mac Allister came on for RDP and Almada became the third MF, Enzo and Mac played flatter in something more of a 4-2-3-1, but both with the license to get forward. That could be a good changeup for Scaloni to have up his sleeve. He wasn't as good against Jamaica, but did show good mobility and ability to break the press with passing.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Oh he comin'! He got his first 2 caps in the most recent Int'l break and he subbed on for Paredes after 65 mins in the first match against Honduras, and for Guido Rodriguez after 55 mins in the second match against Jamaica. So it does seem like those are the 3 options at DMF for the squad, but Enzo is the most attacking of the 3. While I also think he can play as an 8 in the NT system, Mac Allister is probably the first choice to spell De Paul or GLC.

I don't think it's a matter of huevos whether he plays or not--rather, I expect he'll be used when the team needs more fluidity and overall attack, and the other team isn't pressing. In sum, he's not as defensively strong as Guido, and he has a drastically different skillset than Paredes. Guido's by far the best tackler, averages more blocks, doesn't get dribbled often, and is about even with Enzo on interceptions. He's also a lot bigger at 1.85m (6'1'') to Enzo's 1.78 (5'10''). Paredes is 1.80 (5'11''). Paredes has a better touch and is more press resistant than Enzo, and can spray the ball all over the field but he's not mobile. He averages more key passes than Enzo but they're tied on assists. Enzo is a much better ball carrier/dribbler. Surprisingly, Enzo's got a higher long ball rate but that doesn't fit the player profiles I'm familiar with. In any event, I suspect Paredes will start against sides expected to sit in, and Enzo will come on late if Argentina need to chase since he can definitely get his shot off and looks to do so. He can also play in the group stage to keep the other 6s rested and out of yellow card accumulation trouble.

He showed out in his first NT appearance, as his pressure led to Messi's non-pen goal against Honduras, and he also rocked the post on a shot from outside the box. Interestingly, he played as the base of the MF3 as the DMF for a bit alongside De Paul and GLC, but then when Mac Allister came on for RDP and Almada became the third MF, Enzo and Mac played flatter in something more of a 4-2-3-1, but both with the license to get forward. That could be a good changeup for Scaloni to have up his sleeve. He wasn't as good against Jamaica, but did show good mobility and ability to break the press with passing.
Very interesting. Great writeup!

In terms of today's matches, Napoli with a nice opener. They are a really fun team to watch.

View: https://twitter.com/wscbddemo/status/1580239949437149184
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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Seems like an absolutely insane decision in the Atletico/Brugge game to reverse a penalty kick for Brugge off a counter. Striker faked out the defender, pulling the ball back and the momentum of the defender took out the striker's feet.
 

67YAZ

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Pool look to be back to the 4-3-3 I think.

Gomez-Konate-VVD-Tsmikas
Elliott-Fab-Hendo
Bobby-Darwin-Carvalho

or maybe it’s 4-2-3-1 with Elliott on the right wing, Bobby at the 10.

Anyway, Robbo is back on the bench.
 

CPT Neuron

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VAR is ridiculous...pen given in the Napoli/Ajax game for a less egregious offense than the one in the Liverpool/Arsenal game over the weekend...the only consistent feature is how inconsistently bad VAR is across all domains
 

67YAZ

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Rangers just did to Liverpool what Liverpool has been doing to opponents all through the Klopp years.
 

Zososoxfan

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Xavi goes with a backline of Alonso-Pique-Garcia-Roberto. They look...vulnerable. Surprised not to see Balde on.

Raphinha looks off it so far, but at least he's at RW.

Gavi is up to his usual scrappy self. No way he can sit for this game. But FDJ should still be on the field somehow.
 

67YAZ

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Anyone else having big lag issues with P+?

Nicely done by Bobby, but #30 there will be very embarrassed by the replay.
 

Zososoxfan

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Spurs take the lead on a non-call reversed by VAR to a penalty.

Raphinha's night is getting worse and worse. Even Lewa's looking a bit clumsy so far. Barca not showing a lot of patience. Inter looking very dangerous on the counter.
 

Zososoxfan

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Looks like Barca are going to swap Roberto and Raphinha's starting positions so Raph can get more time on the ball. Personally, I'm ready to see Ansu get a full 45 after HT.

Edit: Not quite. Raph hasn't moved. Roberto is posting up on the front line though, along with Pedri. I suspect they're there to draw the CBs away from Lewa. Problem is that Roberto's not a very good finisher.
 

DJnVa

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Son just scored a ridiculous left-footed goal off the volley. Wow.
 

Zososoxfan

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Xavi's tactical change pays off! Roberto receives a pass along the goal line outside the box and he crosses for Dembele who crashes and cashes in! Game on!!
 

67YAZ

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Agree on Tsmikas, but Konate is looking the part tonight - still great in 1v1s but really reading the game well tonight.
 

Kliq

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Not watching, but solid first halves for Spurs in Group D. Not only are they up 3-1 at the half over Frankfurt, but Marseille is now up 2-0 over group leaders Sporting Lisbon, with Sporting down to 10 men.
 

DJnVa

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Not only are they up 3-1 at the half over Frankfurt, but Marseille is now up 2-0 over group leaders Sporting Lisbon, with Sporting down to 10 men.
They were bad for first 20 minutes or so, but talent wins out. Seems to be rolling pretty smoothly now. Nearly have 2 more.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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They were bad for first 20 minutes or so, but talent wins out. Seems to be rolling pretty smoothly now. Nearly have 2 more.
Once they stopped getting out of their own way, it's been an absolute beatdown and a pretty good reference point for what Conte teams are supposed to look like when they're humming.

Hasabe is extremely lucky non-Yellows are not a reviewable thing, it should be an 11 - 9 game now.
 

67YAZ

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Beautiful assist. And Nunez with an expert finish. This is nice stuff.