Underrated Superbowl Moments

Old Fart Tree

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MentalDisabldLst said:
 
Yeah, if Butler runs the ball out of the end zone, and then voluntarily runs back into it and is downed there, it's a safety.
 
The initial hit with Lockette was a big enough boom that he was actually knocked back into the end zone while making the catch.  His first few steps are to pivot and set his momentum to go forward.  Instead of doing that, he could have taken a knee and gotten a touchback.  But, you know, given all the other baller, heads-up plays he made (including, you know, intercepting the pass to win the fucking Super Bowl), I'll excuse him on that one.
 
 
Reminded me of - who was it, Demaryius Thomas? - getting a similar drilling by Kam Chancellor in the previous year's super bowl, and basically turtling and not being the same after.  Big hits from Chancellor are not for the faint of heart.  And does Edelman carry on and hear footsteps and get shell-shocked?  Fuck no.  In the moment, he gathers himself and nearly breaks off another huge chunk of yardage.  And later, he ends up catching the game-deciding TD on an incredible fake-out.
 
What a player he has made himself become.
 
 
That z-in square out pattern was the definition of a FREAK MOVE. Guy could only half-assedly look around for a pushoff flag, which he knew he wouldn't get.
 

TFP

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Old Fart Tree said:
 
 
That z-in square out pattern was the definition of a FREAK MOVE. Guy could only half-assedly look around for a pushoff flag, which he knew he wouldn't get.
Twice. He did the same half-ass flag beg both times, and both times Edeleman basically missed him with the arm swipe.
 

Bone Chips

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Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but the Butler interception was precariously close to the dreaded "process rule". If he bobbled that ball even just a little as he hit the ground, we would have had Dez Bryant x 1,000,000. I've watched the play about 30 times it's not at all clear if he was going to the ground while in the act of catching a pass. Did he "gather himself" and make a football move? I think he did, but boy is it close. And given what we saw with Dez, it's likely that judgment call would have gone against the Pats. And coincidentally referee Bill Vinovich was also the guy who made that Dez Bryant call.

Thank God it didn't happen, but it highlights once again how important it is for the NFL to fix that lousy rule in the offseason.
 
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SoxVindaloo said:
Barnwell does a great job of breaking that play down. It is awesome how quickly Hightower sheds Okung to desperately lunge at Lynch. He gets him most of the way down and Ayers finishes the job in the nick of time. Right up there with Nink's several great tackle for Loss/No Gain plays right behind Butler's INT.
 
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/super-bowl-new-england-patriots-seattle-seahawks/
I was going to post this article. It touches on a lot of small things that I missed during the first viewing. Hightower shedding that block and being able to even get a hand on Lynch is a superhuman effort.
 

djhb20

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Bone Chips said:
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but the Butler interception was precariously close to the dreaded "process rule". If he bobbled that ball even just a little as he hit the ground, we would have had Dez Bryant x 1,000,000. I've watched the play about 30 times it's not at all clear if he was going to the ground while in the act of catching a pass. Did he "gather himself" and make a football move? I think he did, but boy is it close. And given what we saw with Dez, it's likely that judgment call would have gone against the Pats. And coincidentally referee Bill Vinovich was also the guy who made that Dez Bryant call.

Thank God it didn't happen, but it highlights once again how important it is for the NFL to fix that lousy rule in the offseason.
I gotta disagree here. First, he clearly makes a football move, going from leaning backwards to moving forward, after securing the ball with two hands. Second - and there's no film up yet I've seen yet that's clear on this - there's no indication in the angles I saw that the ball ever touched the ground, even after he went down.

It wasn't close to being a Calvin Johnson rule play.
 

Kevin Youkulele

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Bone Chips said:
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but the Butler interception was precariously close to the dreaded "process rule". If he bobbled that ball even just a little as he hit the ground, we would have had Dez Bryant x 1,000,000. I've watched the play about 30 times it's not at all clear if he was going to the ground while in the act of catching a pass. Did he "gather himself" and make a football move? I think he did, but boy is it close. And given what we saw with Dez, it's likely that judgment call would have gone against the Pats. And coincidentally referee Bill Vinovich was also the guy who made that Dez Bryant call.

Thank God it didn't happen, but it highlights once again how important it is for the NFL to fix that lousy rule in the offseason.
Except that turnovers are automatically reviewed.  So we know that the replay official did not see anything problematic, because it did not even progress into a full-blown under the hood look.
 

Al Zarilla

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NortheasternPJ said:
Brady calling a triple "hut" on the end zone play was great timing in order to pull them offsides. 
Stork bobbed his head two or three times during all that. Do they ever call illegal procedure on a center for that? Man, everything went right at the end, even the fight breakout moved the ball completely out of the shadow of the goalpost. 
 

lexrageorge

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Al Zarilla said:
Stork bobbed his head two or three times during all that. Do they ever call illegal procedure on a center for that? Man, everything went right at the end, even the fight breakout moved the ball completely out of the shadow of the goalpost. 
The lineman are allowed to move their head.  The only risk is that the linesman thinks the head bob is a result of a body movement and throws the flag.  All that would have done is stopped the clock on the Pats, as there was no more distance to halve.  
 

djhb20

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Kevin Youkulele said:
Except that turnovers are automatically reviewed.  So we know that the replay official did not see anything problematic, because it did not even progress into a full-blown under the hood look.
As is any play in the last 2 minutes.
 

Bone Chips

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Sorry, I didn't explain myself good enough. It wasn't close to an incompletion. I was just making the point that IF he lost possession when hitting the ground it would have potentially opened up the process rule.
 

Three10toLeft

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I'm re-watching the 4th qtr right now.

Butler saved our ass quite a few times, not just with the INT.

He had the wherewithal to trip Lockette in a nonchalant way, after tripping on his own feet. Early in the 4th.

He deflected the pass to Kearse down the seam with 1:50 left in the 4th qtr.

He played defense perfectly against Kearse for that miracle catch, but didn't stop and let the moment pass him by, and displayed enough awareness to knock him out of bounds. 1:06 left.

And then the INT to seal it.

Un-fucking-believable sequence of events for an undrafted free agent.
 

bball831

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If Butler doesn't come back out of the end zone after the pick, that would have been a safety right?  He caught at the half yard line, bounced back in the end zone and then came out to the 2.  I'm pretty sure that's a safety and we're free kicking up 2 holding on to our butts hoping Wilson doesn't get another jump ball to get them in FG range.  
 

joeflah

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NortheasternPJ said:
Does Seattle usually have one guy lined up in the neutral zone when they're on defense? There were a large number of times last night one guy was in the neutral zone when the ball was snapped and it was never called.
I believe you're thinking of the Klingons.
 

kenneycb

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bball831 said:
If Butler doesn't come back out of the end zone after the pick, that would have been a safety right?  He caught at the half yard line, bounced back in the end zone and then came out to the 2.  I'm pretty sure that's a safety and we're free kicking up 2 holding on to our butts hoping Wilson doesn't get another jump ball to get them in FG range.  
Your momentum can carry you into the end zone without it being a safety.  It used to be the way you describe it but they changed that like 10 or 15 years ago.
 

bigsid05

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bball831 said:
If Butler doesn't come back out of the end zone after the pick, that would have been a safety right?  He caught at the half yard line, bounced back in the end zone and then came out to the 2.  I'm pretty sure that's a safety and we're free kicking up 2 holding on to our butts hoping Wilson doesn't get another jump ball to get them in FG range.  
 
Looked to me like his momentum carried him into the end zone meaning it would have been a touchback. Had he stepped back into the endzone after running out of it, that would have been a different story. 
 

singaporesoxfan

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bball831 said:
If Butler doesn't come back out of the end zone after the pick, that would have been a safety right?  He caught at the half yard line, bounced back in the end zone and then came out to the 2.  I'm pretty sure that's a safety and we're free kicking up 2 holding on to our butts hoping Wilson doesn't get another jump ball to get them in FG range.  
Not a safety. Impetus in interceptions comes from the passing team. From the NFL rule book:

Examples of Non-Safety:

(a) Player intercepts a pass with both feet inbounds in the field of play and his momentum carries him into his own end zone. Ball is put in play at spot of interception.
http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/safety2
 

singaporesoxfan

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bigsid05 said:
 
Looked to me like his momentum carried him into the end zone meaning it would have been a touchback. Had he stepped back into the endzone after running out of it, that would have been a different story. 
Not a touchback either. Spot of interception. Otherwise you'd have the strange spectacle of defenders running towards their own goal line after an interception.

Edit: on your example of stepping back after running out of the end zone, I'm less clear on the rules but based on my reading of Rule 3 (Impetus) I think impetus still remains with the offense in that situation unless Butler fumbled the ball, so no safety.
 

Tokyo Sox

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Quick announcer shout out: I was so thankful after the interception for the way Al Michaels announced, all in one breath, "Flag on the field for excessive celebration."  If he had just said, "Flag on the field" and then we had to wait to find out why, I probably would have died in those intervening seconds.
 

E5 Yaz

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Ryan Allen ... longest punt in Super Bowl history, 64 yards
 

m0ckduck

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Butler on Kearse's miraculous catch had the presence of mind to get up and tackle him. How many rookies do we see just assume the play is over at that point?
 
One aspect of this play I haven't seen discussed (maybe in the game thread?): I thought Kearse himself didn't go max effort for the end zone. He got up and sort of traipsed towards the goal-- maybe Butler would have knocked him out-of-bounds either way, maybe not. HIs body language seemed to say, 'Wow, what a fluke catch, I can't believe I'm holding the ball. I guess I should get up and try to score now' rather than 'I don't give a rat's ass whether or not it was lucky... I have the ball and I'm getting in'. 
 

lexrageorge

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m0ckduck said:
 
One aspect of this play I haven't seen discussed (maybe in the game thread?): I thought Kearse himself didn't go max effort for the end zone. He got up and sort of traipsed towards the goal-- maybe Butler would have knocked him out-of-bounds either way, maybe not. HIs body language seemed to say, 'Wow, what a fluke catch, I can't believe I'm holding the ball. I guess I should get up and try to score now' rather than 'I don't give a rat's ass whether or not it was lucky... I have the ball and I'm getting in'. 
Butler did make a heads up play by immediately running Kearse into the sidelines.  Kearse's first priority is to secure the catch.  Also, if you look at the replay, you will see that Kearse does get up a bit awkwardly, facing the opposite sideline while still regaining his balance, while still trying to maintain possession of the ball.  It's at that moment that Butler knocks him out of bounds.  
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Are there any good videos that show how close Browner was to clipping Butler on the interception?  The gifs on SOSH Central this morning have a perspective that make it look fairly close and that Kearse got a decent push, but Browner really stood him up, and it looks almost like Butler had to hitch just a bit to get clear, but maybe a non-sideline view would show he was several yards clear.  
 

DJnVa

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Bone Chips said:
Sorry, I didn't explain myself good enough. It wasn't close to an incompletion. I was just making the point that IF he lost possession when hitting the ground it would have potentially opened up the process rule.
 
Yes you're right. If something completely different had happened that made the play close to the rule you're thinking of, then yes, that rule may have come into play. :)
 
 

jsinger121

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DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
Are there any good videos that show how close Browner was to clipping Butler on the interception?  The gifs on SOSH Central this morning have a perspective that make it look fairly close and that Kearse got a decent push, but Browner really stood him up, and it looks almost like Butler had to hitch just a bit to get clear, but maybe a non-sideline view would show he was several yards clear.  
 
Here is a good look. I don't think he was close at all.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7rPIg7ZNQ8
 

DJnVa

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Butler hits him so hard, with just the right timing, that even if that ball is more into the receiver's body, I'm not sure he hangs on. And then we see a ball possibly rebounding up and Browner and Nink in the area...
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Oh, yeah, at :39 of that video you can really see it.  I guess that's why people love the all-22, because the width of the field really gets compressed on tv from the regular camera position.
 

dynomite

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dynomite said:
This, right here.

Everyone is going to talk about the circus bullshit catch that got the Seahawks to the 5 yard line. I mean, it was incredible focus by the WR there, but to describe that as the "one of the best catches in Super Bowl history" is just silliness, in my opinion.

But that Edelman catch?

HOLY. FUCKING. SHIT.

Let's re-set the scene:
- The score: 24-14 Seahawks
- Time left: 10:58
- Line of scrimmage: Patriots' 28
- The hit: Impossible to describe without a GIF, but it was... epic.

This, to my mind, could very well have been the game. Miss this play, and what can you do? Go for 4th and 14 from your own 28? Nah, you punt. The Seahawks get the ball back, still up 10. Maybe the Pats still make the comeback, but I think the odds go down dramatically.
To follow up on this:

I'll await what I'm sure will be the most glorious Football Central breakdowns of all time (I plan to bathe in them for about a decade), but I'm in the midst of a Game Rewind viewing and thought I should add this still frame, from the exact moment that Chancellor lowers his head and goes helmet-to-helmet, or perhaps helmet-to-earhole on Edelman on this play:
 

 
Good gravy.
 
Edit: Even as a Pats fan I respect the hell out of the Seattle secondary and how tough they are... and it's the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl... but in slow motion that play is horrifying.  
 

NortheasternPJ

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It's funny everyone is crying about Edelman supposedly skirting the concussion protocol, which he didn't, and not that Chandler destroyed him by going helmet to helmet and not getting a penalty.
 

ObstructedView

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NortheasternPJ said:
It's funny everyone is crying about Edelman supposedly skirting the concussion protocol, which he didn't, and not that Chandler destroyed him by going helmet to helmet and not getting a penalty.
Exactly. And absolutely no mention of it by Collinsworth or Michaels at the time. Seemed like a pretty clear-cut case of a defender launching himself into a helmet-to-helmet hit on a defenseless receiver. But who cares about player safety when you can harp about deflated footballs? 
 

djhb20

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Well, sure, but why wasn't Chancellor put through the concussion protocol? And why hasn't anyone asked that question?

Edelman, at least, pops right up and keeps playing. Chancellor gets up more slowly and doesn't seem to recognize that there is (sort of) still a play going on.

I mean, helmet to helmet means both heads took the same impact and all. Right?
 

lambeau

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I don't know how Edelman passed his concussion test after The Catch--I think he faked it--and I don't know why the refs didn't flag Chancellor for helmet-to-helmet; that was a dirty hit intended to injure and punish Julian for coming across the middle.Let 'em play, but...
 

bsj

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Nink's tackle of Lynch for a loss on 3rd and 1 when the Pats were down 7 in the 3rd quarter.

Completely different game down 14 vs 10.
 

ivanvamp

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dynomite said:
To follow up on this:

I'll await what I'm sure will be the most glorious Football Central breakdowns of all time (I plan to bathe in them for about a decade), but I'm in the midst of a Game Rewind viewing and thought I should add this still frame, from the exact moment that Chancellor lowers his head and goes helmet-to-helmet, or perhaps helmet-to-earhole on Edelman on this play:
 

 
Good gravy.
 
Edit: Even as a Pats fan I respect the hell out of the Seattle secondary and how tough they are... and it's the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl... but in slow motion that play is horrifying.  
 
Yeah, that's really hard to believe that there was no penalty on that.  Look at Chancellor absolutely launch himself at Edelman with his helmet.  No attempt to wrap up or tackle or lead with the shoulder or…..anything legal.  Just a pure heat-seeking missile.  
 

semsox

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I understand the importance and desire to diagnose concussions and such during the course of the game, but I've found the tone of it all a bit odd, as well as the harping on Edelman in particular. Russell Wilson basically stumbled through 3/4 of the game against GB after getting concussed by Clay Matthews early in the game, but I hadn't/haven't really seen media members talking about that. The fact is that for the lip service the NFL gives to player safety, the actual processes they've implemented to govern them are still sorely lacking.
 

MiracleOfO2704

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kenneycb said:
Your momentum can carry you into the end zone without it being a safety.  It used to be the way you describe it but they changed that like 10 or 15 years ago.
Ironically enough, I believe that changed after a Raiders-Seahawks game when they played at Husky Stadium between the Kingdome and CenturyLink. A Raider intercepted the Seahawks QB, momentum carried him and the WR into the end zone, and the call ended up safety even though the Raider DB had no chance in a monsoon to end up anywhere but the end zone.

Okay, slightly different from what I remembered, but this was still the impetus.
 

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singaporesoxfan said:
I wonder what questions get asked on a Gronk concussion test.
 
Awesome.  
 
These guys must get baseline tests so they can compare before and after. For Gronk, if he's concussed the cognition goes up.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Some of the different angles showing up on the various films on Lynch's run from the five are just terrifying. He had clear sailing. And even with Hightower making an incredible play it's amazing he doesn't have enough momemtum to get in. For a second there, he must have thought he was in.
 

garzooma

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lexrageorge said:
Butler did make a heads up play by immediately running Kearse into the sidelines.  Kearse's first priority is to secure the catch.  Also, if you look at the replay, you will see that Kearse does get up a bit awkwardly, facing the opposite sideline while still regaining his balance, while still trying to maintain possession of the ball.  It's at that moment that Butler knocks him out of bounds.  
Since Butler made contact as they jumped up, wouldn't Kearse be down by contact?
 

pappymojo

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dynomite said:
To follow up on this:

I'll await what I'm sure will be the most glorious Football Central breakdowns of all time (I plan to bathe in them for about a decade), but I'm in the midst of a Game Rewind viewing and thought I should add this still frame, from the exact moment that Chancellor lowers his head and goes helmet-to-helmet, or perhaps helmet-to-earhole on Edelman on this play:
 

 
Good gravy.
 
Edit: Even as a Pats fan I respect the hell out of the Seattle secondary and how tough they are... and it's the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl... but in slow motion that play is horrifying.  
 
Any chance that the NFL imposes a penalty or fine after the fact?  That looks both horrible and blatant.
 

singaporesoxfan

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loshjott said:
 
Awesome.  
 
These guys must get baseline tests so they can compare before and after. For Gronk, if he's concussed the cognition goes up.
 
"Gronk, do you like to drink tequila?"
 
"Drink tequila? More like read Tequila Mockingbird, am I right?"
 
"Oh shit."
 
(Excerpted from Flowers For Gronkernon)
 

dbn

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I remember reading something to that effect, too. It's interesting that Butler was the first choice for a third CB in addition to Revis and Browner. 
 

JohnnyK

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dbn said:
 It's interesting that Butler was the first choice for a third CB in addition to Revis and Browner. 
He replaced Arrington earlier in the game, and I doubt the coaches had much confidence in Ryan after he was in coverage on the second SEA TD. So not really that surprising.