US Open at Chambers Bay

Leon Trotsky · Jun 10, 2015

Beautiful pic!

I love the courses of the US Open. Always seems to be an interesting story. Chambers Bay was an old gravel pit or something, right? Quite the reclamation project.

cshea · Jun 10, 2015

Yeah, it was built on an old gravel quarry. The place looks beautiful from all the pictures and video's I've seen, as evidenced by TPOS' photo. From what I've read, Chambers is a beast of a course. From the tips, it maxes out at 7,900 yards. 1 and 18 can be played as either par 4 or 5's. 9 is a 220 yard par 3 where they have 2 tee boxes...one uphill, one downhill. I guess they can also use side hill lies on some tee boxes.

I'm looking forward to the week. I do love when the Open is out west and we get prime time/night golf here in the east. One bummer is that Fox has the broadcast. Joe Buck and Greg Norman....ehhh. We'll see.

Papelbon's Poutine · Jun 10, 2015

It should be interesting at least. I think it has equal chance to be a circus and to be a great venue - it does certainly look gorgeous and it could make for some really interesting golf, especially since most of the field will have never seen it. I do think it's a bit extreme to have intentionally uneven tee boxes for an Open, as well as the uphill/downhill par 3 and the 4/5 swap on 1/18. They're saying rounds will take 10-15 minutes longer, just because of the yardage and the distance between holes will take that much longer to walk - are we going to end up with a finish in the darkness like Valhalla last year?

I'm kind of an old curmudgeon when it comes to the US Open and I question if they made a good choice here. I know the players always complain about Open setups, so maybe we shouldn't read into the complaints so far too much, but it seems like many aren't particularly happy here. I will probably be wrong and it will be great viewing.

I honestly don't even know how they got it though - the course has only been open for 8 years. I know they wanted to go to the Pacific NW, but I would have figured they'd just use Sahalee or maybe even break in Bandon (though I know that would be tough with lodging), rather than award it to a course that had only been open a couple years at that point (when you factor in how far in advance they are awarded). It wouldn't shock me if USGA was consulted during its planning and building though, with this very thing in mind.

jercra · Jun 10, 2015

I've played Chambers twice. I honestly didn't think I could dislike a course more than I did the first time I played until I played it a second time and found I hated it even more.

Is it pretty? No, not really. It looks like a gravel quarry. If you like gravel quarry's then I guess it is. I'm sure they'll make it look good on TV though. It's very long, especially if the wind is up. It's very narrow. The greens were so dumb when they built it that the USGA made them rebuild a bunch of them. The conditions were so bad last I played it (3 years ago) that the USGA took over greenskeeping. The greens were only green when I played it last because they put green sand and paint on them. There was almost no grass. There are several stupid holes, like the 200-ish par 3 that's a 80-100 elevation change. You either hit the fairway or your ball is gone. There's no rough, just "dunes" covered in tall, dense grass. The dunes are all man made, not natural. Hit the green? Doesn't matter, you'll be behind a buried van where it's literally impossible to putt at the flag without rolling 100 yards off the green and down a hill. I don't mean very difficult, I mean the flag will be 25 feet below the crest of the hill and the hill will be steep enough that if you start down it, it won't stop.

Obviously some of these will be remedied for the US Open (the tall grass will all be galleries and they have marshals with flags anyway, the conditions will probably be better and there's likely grass on the greens) but I suspect there will be a bunch of bitching about conditions and the stupid greens by the players.

PP, they built the course specifically to get a US open I believe. I don't think they committed to building the course until the USGA committed to having an Open there. Bandon doesn't have nearly the infrastructure to handle one while Seatac is only an hour from CB.

johnmd20 · Jun 10, 2015

All I hope is that this year's US Open isn't like last years.(or 2011's) Last year's was over by noon on Friday. That was so unbelievably disappointing and I'm a fan of Kaymer. Also, that picture is pretty incredible.

Freddy Linn · Jun 10, 2015

jercra said:
I've played Chambers twice. I honestly didn't think I could dislike a course more than I did the first time I played until I played it a second time and found I hated it even more.

Is it pretty? No, not really. It looks like a gravel quarry. If you like gravel quarry's then I guess it is. I'm sure they'll make it look good on TV though. It's very long, especially if the wind is up. It's very narrow. The greens were so dumb when they built it that the USGA made them rebuild a bunch of them. The conditions were so bad last I played it (3 years ago) that the USGA took over greenskeeping. The greens were only green when I played it last because they put green sand and paint on them. There was almost no grass. There are several stupid holes, like the 200-ish par 3 that's a 80-100 elevation change. You either hit the fairway or your ball is gone. There's no rough, just "dunes" covered in tall, dense grass. The dunes are all man made, not natural. Hit the green? Doesn't matter, you'll be behind a buried van where it's literally impossible to putt at the flag without rolling 100 yards off the green and down a hill. I don't mean very difficult, I mean the flag will be 25 feet below the crest of the hill and the hill will be steep enough that if you start down it, it won't stop.

Obviously some of these will be remedied for the US Open (the tall grass will all be galleries and they have marshals with flags anyway, the conditions will probably be better and there's likely grass on the greens) but I suspect there will be a bunch of bitching about conditions and the stupid greens by the players.

PP, they built the course specifically to get a US open I believe. I don't think they committed to building the course until the USGA committed to having an Open there. Bandon doesn't have nearly the infrastructure to handle one while Seatac is only an hour from CB.

I have a million comments, but this is pretty spot on. Largely because of work I've played it probably ten times at distances up to 7900 yards and as recently as three weeks ago. It will be fun to watch, and I think it will look great on TV, but I don't think it is a particularly great golf course, and I love links golf.

Logistics are terrible and the pros are going to complain a ton about the lack of a clubhouse and the fact that the range sucks. Bet on it. As for the actual golf course, the 7th, 16th, and 18th greens are going to be a huge issue.

Looking forward to the bitching. There will be some huge numbers put up.

Leon Trotsky · Jun 10, 2015

Freddy Linn said:
I have a million comments, but this is pretty spot on. Largely because of work I've played it probably ten times at distances up to 7900 yards and as recently as three weeks ago. It will be fun to watch, and I think it will look great on TV, but I don't think it is a particularly great golf course, and I love links golf.

Logistics are terrible and the pros are going to complain a ton about the lack of a clubhouse and the fact that the range sucks. Bet on it. As for the actual golf course, the 7th, 16th, and 18th greens are going to be a huge issue.

Looking forward to the bitching. There will be some huge numbers put up.

Huh. I was looking at google maps and trying to figure out where the clubhouse was. Guess that explains it. Do they just have like a starter's shack or something?

Papelbon's Poutine · Jun 10, 2015

Wait, do they literally not have a clubhouse? I was assuming Freddy just meant it was small and not as equipped as what they're used to. Holy shit, that's crazy.

Papelbon's Poutine · Jun 10, 2015

jercra said:
PP, they built the course specifically to get a US open I believe. I don't think they committed to building the course until the USGA committed to having an Open there. Bandon doesn't have nearly the infrastructure to handle one while Seatac is only an hour from CB.

Jesus, I guess USGA is like our own mini FIFA. Yeah, after thinkin about Bandon, I realized that even beyond the lodging aspect, it's not that easy to get to. Players wouldn't have trouble obviously, but for the thousands of fans, trying to book into North Bend or Medford wouldn't be feasible, leaving everyone driving from Portland or SF. Which sucks because it should totally host one, especially before some place like this (judging by more candid reviews here). Again, they should have gone to Sahalee if they wanted it in that region.

Papelbon's Poutine · Jun 10, 2015

Come on, seriously?

Freddy Linn · Jun 10, 2015

That is the pro shop on the left side and a small restaurant/bar on the right. Two bathrooms. Shuttle down the hill to the range and putting areas. The range is long but really oddly shaped.

Chambers is like a pop-up tournament, and the players' locker room is going to be in a massive tent. If I knew how to share a photo I could show you some of the equally massive merchandising tents. I will say that the hospitality tents on 18 are fit within some remnants of the old quarry and look really cool. Some of the vistas are amazing, but the topography is a bitch to walk.

Again, I hope it turns out great and I can't wait, but the site is a bitch to get to and any amenities are non-existent.

Edit: my biggest issue is that it feels like they rushed (and they did) to get this done. The course needs time to settle from an agronomic standpoint and the few major quirks needed to be more thoughtfully worked out. Five more years and it would be much better venue.

If you are interested in the prep required for a US Open, read "Open" by John Feinstein. Great insight into all the bullshit involved in putting such an event on.

Papelbon's Poutine · Jun 11, 2015

To post pics go to www.tinypics.com, upload from your library, then copy the message board link and post it. I'd really like to see that.

I've seen the tents they set up for merchandise and stuff at the Heritage but this must just blow it away on scale.

TFP · Jun 11, 2015

The merch tent at Pinehurst last year was unlike anything I've ever seen. It was bigger than a normal Golfsmith outlet, colder than an ice rink and packed wall to wall with clothes and souvenirs. It's impressive.

Freddy Linn · Jun 11, 2015

Obviously, I suck at this. These are from May 8th. The first two pictures are 18 from the ladies tee (zoom in and you can see my throttled drive in the center of the fairway - you have to hit a cut). The final picture is the 7th green, which is 500 yards uphill, dogleg right - the tee box is to the left of the caddy's head. The one with the guy in the red shirt is the opening hole, the 1st tee is 50 yards behind where I took that picture.

moly99 · Jun 11, 2015

Papelbon's Poutine said:
Again, they should have gone to Sahalee if they wanted it in that region.

The problem is that players hate that course just as much.

jercra · Jun 11, 2015

ThePrideofShiner said:
To answer this. Well, no the course isn't pretty, as it is links style. But if you don't think a course sitting on the Puget Sound, with vistas viewing the Olympic Mountains on one side, and peak-a-boo views of Mount Rainier on the other side is pretty, I'm not sure what to say.

I'd say go to Bandon. Links all the way and stunning at every turn. I mean, it's pretty for a quarry, but it's still a quarry. The course is only kind of sitting on Puget sound and you're looking over the train tracks to a bunch of 50's suburban houses on the cliffs on the other side. If you didn't know it was the sound you'd be hard pressed to tell me you weren't on Winnipesaukee. It's nicer than your standard muni course but I think there are many, many courses that are nicer looking.

Papelbon's Poutine · Jun 11, 2015

moly99 said:
The problem is that players hate that course just as much.

Yeah I don't think that's going be an accurate statement in a week and a half.

johnmd20 · Jun 11, 2015

jercra said:
I'd say go to Bandon. Links all the way and stunning at every turn. I mean, it's pretty for a quarry, but it's still a quarry. The course is only kind of sitting on Puget sound and you're looking over the train tracks to a bunch of 50's suburban houses on the cliffs on the other side. If you didn't know it was the sound you'd be hard pressed to tell me you weren't on Winnipesaukee. It's nicer than your standard muni course but I think there are many, many courses that are nicer looking.

Bandon, as noted, really doesn't have the infrastructure. It's also really (REALLY!) difficult to get to and it's in the middle of nowhere. The crowds, if they show, will be delayed by an impossible amount and they won't be able to get around at all. And that is assume they find places to stay that are less than 90 minutes away.

That said, it's a gorgeous course and seeing the pros play the Open there would be thrilling. I just don't think it's ready.

Dan Murfman · Jun 11, 2015

Thursday, June 18
FOX Sports 1: Noon-8 p.m.
FOX: 8 p.m.-11 p.m.
FOX Sports Go: 1-10 p.m.
Livestream at USGA.com: 10 a.m.-10 p.m.

Friday, June 19
FOX Sports 1: Noon-8 p.m
FOX: 8 p.m.-11 p.m.
FOX Sports Go: 1-10 p.m.
Livestream at USGA.com: 10 a.m.-10 p.m.

Saturday, June 20
FOX: 2-11 p.m.
FOX Sports Go: 2-10 p.m.
Livestream at USGA.com: 2-10 p.m.

Sunday, June 21
FOX: 2-11 p.m.
FOX Sports Go: 2-10 p.m.
Livestream at USGA.com: 2-10 p.m.

Papelbon's Poutine · Jun 11, 2015

johnmd20 said:
Bandon, as noted, really doesn't have the infrastructure. It's also really (REALLY!) difficult to get to and it's in the middle of nowhere. The crowds, if they show, will be delayed by an impossible amount and they won't be able to get around at all. And that is assume they find places to stay that are less than 90 minutes away.

That said, it's a gorgeous course and seeing the pros play the Open there would be thrilling. I just don't think it's ready.

I think he was just saying that links courses can certainly still be pretty and if you want to see one "go to Bandon". He himself just stated that it's not equipped logistically to handle an open.

BigMike · Jun 11, 2015

jercra said:
I've played Chambers twice. I honestly didn't think I could dislike a course more than I did the first time I played until I played it a second time and found I hated it even more.

Is it pretty? No, not really. It looks like a gravel quarry. If you like gravel quarry's then I guess it is. I'm sure they'll make it look good on TV though. It's very long, especially if the wind is up. It's very narrow.

I just wanted to pick up on that one point. Is it Narrow? I had been reading and hearing the opposite, where fairways at least we described as wide or even huge

RedOctober3829 · Jun 11, 2015

I love west coast US Opens. Having a prime-time finish is great because I can do get things done during the day and sit down around 5-6 pm to watch on the weekends.

jercra · Jun 11, 2015

BigMike said:
I just wanted to pick up on that one point. Is it Narrow? I had been reading and hearing the opposite, where fairways at least we described as wide or even huge

Just look at the pics Freddy Linn posted upthread. The greens are huge. The fairways, not so much. There are wide areas on some of them but the landing spots are not wide. There are no trees and the tall grass won't come into play for the pros since it will all be trampled down by crowds so maybe that's where you're hearing them described as huge.

Conigliaro's Potential · Jun 11, 2015

RedOctober3829 said:
I love west coast US Opens. Having a prime-time finish is great because I can do get things done during the day and sit down around 5-6 pm to watch on the weekends.

West coast US Opens suck when you live in Europe and can't stay up until silly o'clock to watch the finish live. (To be fair, most years I'm pretty lucky that way.)

Pebble Beach doesn't have much infrastructure and is a bitch to get to, by the way. Pacific Dunes in Bandon is a better course than Pebble, in my humble opinion, but even if it were nearer a major population center, I'm not sure I'd want to have it hosting the US Open. Indeed, as much as I love links golf - my home course is a links course - I'm somewhat uncomfortable by the thought that three of the four majors this year are being played on linksy courses. The PGA Championship this year is at Whistling Straits, of course...and given Rory McIlroy's noted difficulties with properly windy, linksy conditions, I think he'll need some placid weather at some point if he wants to contend in another major before 2016.

moly99 · Jun 11, 2015

Papelbon's Poutine said:
Yeah I don't think that's going be an accurate statement in a week and a half.

There will be plenty of complaining about this course. But people were also complaining about Sahalee when the PGA Championship was played there. They are basically opposite extremes of the spectrum of course design. Many players will simply blame the course when things go wrong for them, and a more extreme course is an easier target.

WayBackVazquez · Jun 11, 2015

ConigliarosPotential said:
Pebble Beach doesn't have much infrastructure and is a bitch to get to, by the way. Pacific Dunes in Bandon is a better course than Pebble, in my humble opinion, but even if it were nearer a major population center, I'm not sure I'd want to have it hosting the US Open. Indeed, as much as I love links golf - my home course is a links course - I'm somewhat uncomfortable by the thought that three of the four majors this year are being played on linksy courses. The PGA Championship this year is at Whistling Straits, of course...and given Rory McIlroy's noted difficulties with properly windy, linksy conditions, I think he'll need some placid weather at some point if he wants to contend in another major before 2016.

I can't speak to the second part, because I've never played Bandon, but comparing it to Pebble as far as infrastructure is silly. The Monterey Peninsula has a couple of hundred hotels and inns with thousands of guest rooms, and sees millions of visitors each year. There are three major international airports closer to Pebble than the closest moderately-sized regional airport (EUG) to Bandon, with the smallest of them hosting more than 20 times more passengers per year.

jercra · Jun 12, 2015

Let's be clear, in a 50 mile radius of Bandon, Or. there is probably a total of 300-500 hotel rooms, including the resort. It's truly in the middle of nowhere and will never host a major tournament. That's one of the reasons it's so special though. Pebble has houses all around it. Bandon has nothing but golf and ocean as far as the eye can see.

Conigliaro's Potential · Jun 12, 2015

Oh, I agree that the Monterey Peninsula has a lot more tourism-related infrastructure and is much closer to a major population area than Bandon...but the difference between Bandon and Pebble is pretty much the same order of magnitude as the difference between Pebble and most other US Open venues. (I do wonder how Royal Portrush will compare in this regard when it hosts the Open Championship in 2019.)

Dan Murfman · Jun 13, 2015

This is nuts. Bubba putting at one of the greens at Chamber Bay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uc0plTJ_B0&feature=youtu.be

LogansDad · Jun 13, 2015

That's awesome.... the players are going to hate this course so much, and I love that.

Papelbon's Poutine · Jun 13, 2015

Why do you love that, just out of curiosity? I love watching them play a hard course and seeing it separate the field, but I'm also not sure I want to watch a tournament where the cut line is 15 over.

Comfortably Lomb · Jun 13, 2015

Dan Murfman said:
This is nuts. Bubba putting at one of the greens at Chamber Bay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uc0plTJ_B0&feature=youtu.be

Bubba can go fuck himself. Murf, you can sit there with a camera for a while, eventually drain that putt, and arrogantly smile at the camera on every attempt too.

Dan Murfman · Jun 13, 2015

Oh I am sure of that. It wasn't so much that he made it but how had to hit it.

Papelbon's Poutine · Jun 13, 2015

You're both right. It's a joke that the green plays like that and pin placements could be that crazy (which jercra alluded to). And fuck Bubba, which is pretty much a solid stance no matter what the topic is, outside of Golf Boys videos.

Papelbon's Poutine · Jun 13, 2015

What do we think cut line and winning score are going to be?

I'm putting cut line at 13 over and winner at 5 over. I'm in the mindset this is going to be a shit show, but I'd be curious to see what other people think scores are going to come in at.

Dan Murfman · Jun 13, 2015

And how long are the Thursday and Friday rounds going to be?

LogansDad · Jun 13, 2015

Papelbon's Poutine said:
Why do you love that, just out of curiosity? I love watching them play a hard course and seeing it separate the field, but I'm also not sure I want to watch a tournament where the cut line is 15 over.

I don't really know, to be honest. I think it has something to with how much I suck at golf, so I enjoy watching these guys, who are generally other-worldly with their skill, struggle to put up decent scores.

I am also fully on board with the "fuck Bubba" foundation, as well.

Papelbon's Poutine · Jun 13, 2015

LogansDad said:
I don't really know, to be honest. I think it has something to with how much I suck at golf, so I enjoy watching these guys, who are generally other-worldly with their skill, struggle to put up decent scores.

I am also fully on board with the "fuck Bubba" foundation, as well.

Ok, I can see that, even if I don't share it. I don't like watching them put up 20 under to win by one but I'm also not sure I want to watch them put up 5 over to win. Really as long as the field is close to each other and its competitive, I guess it doesn't make much of a difference as far as compelling viewing. I guess I just find watching pars and bogeys boring.

Freddy Linn · Jun 13, 2015

I think that is the third hole, and if so technically he putted it off the green and then back on. There are a handful of holes where you cannot tell where the green ends at all.

I don't think the winner is going to be over par but I don't think he will be much under, so right around the USGA's target. If the wind blows, throw that prediction out the window.

LogansDad · Jun 13, 2015

Papelbon's Poutine said:
Ok, I can see that, even if I don't share it. I don't like watching them put up 20 under to win by one but I'm also not sure I want to watch them put up 5 over to win. Really as long as the field is close to each other and its competitive, I guess it doesn't make much of a difference as far as compelling viewing. I guess I just find watching pars and bogeys boring.

That's fair enough, I like watching them play and seeing a birdie and almost always thinking to myself, "Man, that is huge". I think the tough US Open courses make the good shots that much more exciting.

Leon Trotsky · Jun 13, 2015

I love watching the pros hacking around the US Open courses. Makes it seem like they are kinda playing the same game as me. Of course, if I played that course I would shoot like a 190.

I was reading the NY Times article about Chambers Bay. Pretty interesting that the course is made entirely with miniature fescue grass, with rough, fairway, and greens all being the same grass. I guess Chambers is one of the very few places in North America that has it (the only?) and it makes it very similar to ancient Scottish courses.

Freddy Linn · Jun 13, 2015

FWIW, despite what the USGA wants you to hear there is some poa growing on particular greens (#12 comes to mind), so it isn't entirely fine fescue. I bet there will be some grumbling about that as well. My money is on Phil.

Papelbon's Poutine · Jun 13, 2015

I agree, I think this is the week Phil gets his U.S. Open. The type of creativity and short game that will be needed fits him perfectly. If he can putt well, I think he's the favorite given the setup.

Or he blows up early and misses the cut. Because Phil.

thehitcat · Jun 13, 2015

LogansDad said:
That's fair enough, I like watching them play and seeing a birdie and almost always thinking to myself, "Man, that is huge". I think the tough US Open courses make the good shots that much more exciting.

QFT Also I love watching players that swagger through other courses have to reach back and find something extra mentally at a US Open or in some cases crack. To me being mentally strong is nearly as important as hitting great shots and it becomes even more important when the course is "out to get you". If someone puts up consecutive snowmen then that's on them, not the course, not the setup and not the USGA. Those that can handle adversity will rise and those that don't will crap out in potentially spectacular fashion. This is what makes this tournament above all others the one I enjoy watching.

Also fuck Bubba.

WayBackVazquez · Jun 13, 2015

Dan Murfman said:
Oh I am sure of that. It wasn't so much that he made it but how had to hit it.

I don't think that putt needs to be hit that way. It was a trick shot, and potentially useful in assessing the speed of the greens and ways to use back/sidestops, but not the only or even likely line for that putt.

Freddy Linn · Jun 13, 2015

Papelbon's Poutine said:
I agree, I think this is the week Phil gets his U.S. Open. The type of creativity and short game that will be needed fits him perfectly. If he can putt well, I think he's the favorite given the setup.

Or he blows up early and misses the cut. Because Phil.

My bad, I meant that I think Phil is going to complain about missing four-footers because of poa. Because he will. I don't see him putting well enough to win. Also, I think you want to hit a gentle left-to-right shot there and that isn't a gentle direction for him.

I'm on Spieth or Rose.

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat · Jun 13, 2015

Freddy Linn said:
My bad, I meant that I think Phil is going to complain about missing four-footers because of poa. Because he will. I don't see him putting well enough to win. Also, I think you want to hit a gentle left-to-right shot there and that isn't a gentle direction for him.

I'm on Spieth or Rose.

Ryan Moore and his local knowledge a decent long shot?

US Open at Chambers Bay

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