USMNT: To Rüssia With Love

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,447
Literally just came here to post that.

It's difficult to believe that this is the best the system can produce.
It's a little bit mean to put together a lowlights video...but whoever did it didn't have to draw from that many different games.

I don't think Zardes is the best we can produce, but he's gotten a shitload of USMNT playing time over the last two years since receiving his first cap in the 2015 January camp. Altidore and Wood are better center forwards and they're all in a similar generation, too. Altidore is less than two years older than Zardes. Wood is a little more than a year younger. Johannsson is less than a year older. #Swagudelo is almost exactly the same age as Wood and would be a NT mainstay if he could only get his head out of his ass.

It's kind of wild that between 2015 and 2016, Zardes has - if I'm eyeballing those stat sheets correctly - more USMNT playing time than any other player except Michael Bradley. He's benefited from injuries to other forwards, the fact that Wood didn't break out until this season, and the erroneous notion that he's an acceptable option for wide positions. He's from all accounts a very hard worker and a really nice guy, easy for a coach to like. But still...

For all his shortcomings, I actually think that Zardes has a place in the NT pool. Over the course of a four-year WC cycle, you need roughly 35 players to make contributions. There are injuries, losses of form, old players who go into decline, and new players who emerge. He's not in my 23 for Russia, but inevitably he'd be called upon to fill in here and there. If given the proper role (CF, tell him to keep it simple, make some basic runs, work hard) he'll be fine if certainly not ideal against CONCACAF competition.

Hopefully with Wood, Dempsey, a healthy Altidore, an emerging Morris, a hopefully healthy Johannsson, et al, Zardes will be shifted to his proper place in the pool.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,447
BTW - the USSF had the Zardes video taken down on copyright grounds. They have the right to do that, of course, but they definitely don't pursue all copyright claims across the board the way some sporting entities do. The USSF is very thin-skinned.
 

crystalline

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 12, 2009
5,771
JP
BTW - the USSF had the Zardes video taken down on copyright grounds. They have the right to do that, of course, but they definitely don't pursue all copyright claims across the board the way some sporting entities do. The USSF is very thin-skinned.
Could be just profit-seeking.
MLB/NFL control media outlets and all their players' highlights that exist are sold through their media outlets or contracted media partners. Which means even good clips they should try to take down to protect their sales.

USSF has less reason to pursue good clips.

Both entities have an incentive to take down bad clips.


Of course the problem is that a short sports clip should really be fair use and not subject to removal. Especially for teams receiving public subsidies through stadiums as in MLB and the NFL.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,447
I'm nervous about tonight's game, but this makes me feel a little better:

 

teddykgb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
11,025
Chelmsford, MA
Looking ahead to the match v Ecuador I think JK needs to manage against his opponent and think long and hard about inserting Besler or swapping Johnson. I'm really worried about a potential Orozco v Montero matchup. Montero looked very dangerous in the friendly earlier and it's not like there's much relief on the other wing either. Cameron almost assuredly lacks the foot speed for that matchup but is a much more experienced defender. Fabian is probably not much faster but seems quicker. I'm not sure which FB i prefer out there but I prefer either of them to Orozco. It's generally a terrible idea to break up a successful CB partnership but this is knockout football and a single mismatch on the pitch can be enough to end the entire run.
 

SocrManiac

Tommy Seebach’s mustache
SoSH Member
Apr 15, 2006
8,634
Somers, CT
Rather than dumping this in the game thread, I think it's time to turn attention back here.

I'm not getting worked up about coming up short last night. No combination of this players in this side was likely to get a result against Argentina. I feel like the selection was almost a concession to that. Can a semifinal be used to plan for the future? I don't think it's politically possible, but I wish that could have been the approach.

It's difficult to envision a scenario where the team can significantly develop beyond CONCACAF. You become in many ways what the competition makes you. They don't get to see world class players with their feet on the gas on a regular basis. The friendlies against the big national sides just don't provide a real test. They do a great job of setting up unrealistic expectations in the media and casual fanbase when folks see a decent result against a big name without even bothering to check the team selections. When will the US guys, as a team, see a high press from fast, skilled, intelligent players? How can they train to cope with that?

My main thoughts...

Howard punches Messi's lob clear. I don't know if Guzan was wilting under the spotlight, unprepared for an early test, or just plain incompetent and it doesn't matter. I waver back and forth on Guzan's culpability on Messi's free kick. I typically defend keepers because of the modern ball. When knuckled they're utterly unpredictable. This wasn't. It had typical rotation and not a ton of pace. It was beautifully placed, but don't forget that the goal is 8' tall. Guzan gambled for a shot over the wall and lost. If he's properly set and reacts I think he makes the save, perhaps comfortably. He lacks confidence when the ball is passed back to him, unsettling his defenders and forcing them to waver when using him as a pressure relief valve. The key area that the US has done very well in is producing goalkeepers. There has to be somebody waiting in the wings to claim this role.

Wondo's inclusion in the tournament roster was baffling. A start is inexplicable.

Somebody said it in the game thread and it's absolutely true: Bradley's form since his move to MLS has been awful. Pick anything: first touch, decision making, awareness, positioning, delivery... They're all significantly degraded right now. Unless something changes drastically he's done as a useful piece.

The main positive is in this crop of defenders. Time and familiarity could really meld them into a nice asset.
 

Jimy Hendrix

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2002
5,846
So, the entire central midfield has either already aged out of the role (Beckerman), by all logic we should assume they're aging out of the role even as they play pretty well (Jones), or is playing as if they've aged out of the role even as they're theoretically still in the tail end of their prime (Bradley).

How do we turn that over in the next two years? Nagbe is one possibility for those spots, Cameron can do in a pinch although he might be too important to the backline and is himself not young. What next? Is it just down to hoping Hyndman makes a leap in the EPL and hoping someone comes out of the Kitchen/Morales/Trapp/etc. pu-pu platter of defensive midfielders?
 
Dec 21, 2015
1,410
Howard punches Messi's lob clear. I don't know if Guzan was wilting under the spotlight, unprepared for an early test, or just plain incompetent and it doesn't matter. I waver back and forth on Guzan's culpability on Messi's free kick. I typically defend keepers because of the modern ball. When knuckled they're utterly unpredictable. This wasn't. It had typical rotation and not a ton of pace. It was beautifully placed, but don't forget that the goal is 8' tall. Guzan gambled for a shot over the wall and lost. If he's properly set and reacts I think he makes the save, perhaps comfortably. He lacks confidence when the ball is passed back to him, unsettling his defenders and forcing them to waver when using him as a pressure relief valve. The key area that the US has done very well in is producing goalkeepers. There has to be somebody waiting in the wings to claim this role.
Why stop there? A world-class keeper probably prevents the 3rd goal too, and more often than the Messi free kick. Yeah it was a breakaway, but Brooks was bearing down to close the angle, and he got the initial stop. He just gave up a huge, juicy rebound. 2014 Howard probably stops 2 of those first 3 goals (2016 Howard, who the hell knows). 2016 Neuer, De Gea (yesterday notwithstanding) or Cech maybe stop all three.

Not that it really mattered - we could have been out there until sunrise and not scored a goal - but the lineup choices were really frustrating. All I'll guess is that maybe Klinsmann saw stuff in camp that made him pick Guzan over Howard, and it's not lingering animus from Howard's sabbatical. Let's just hope that on Saturday he plays all the kids, all day long.
 

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
Looking at the roster from Copa, here are the guys who will be under 30 for World Cup 2018

GK: Horvath
DF: Yedlin, Brooks, Birnbaum
MF: Nagbe, Kitchen
FW: Pulisic, Zardes

Jesus, this was an old team.

Also, let's hope JK stops cutting his nose to spite his face and plays Howard, who settles things down better than Guzan. Guzan has had a rough year with Villa, he may rebound but going back to the Gold Cup he's been super nervy. And let's hope someone among Horvath/Hamid/Johnson/Steffen/Yarbrough breaks through. We only have to hit on one.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,345
Philadelphia
Rather than dumping this in the game thread, I think it's time to turn attention back here.

I'm not getting worked up about coming up short last night. No combination of this players in this side was likely to get a result against Argentina. I feel like the selection was almost a concession to that. Can a semifinal be used to plan for the future? I don't think it's politically possible, but I wish that could have been the approach.

It's difficult to envision a scenario where the team can significantly develop beyond CONCACAF. You become in many ways what the competition makes you. They don't get to see world class players with their feet on the gas on a regular basis. The friendlies against the big national sides just don't provide a real test. They do a great job of setting up unrealistic expectations in the media and casual fanbase when folks see a decent result against a big name without even bothering to check the team selections. When will the US guys, as a team, see a high press from fast, skilled, intelligent players? How can they train to cope with that?

My main thoughts...

Howard punches Messi's lob clear. I don't know if Guzan was wilting under the spotlight, unprepared for an early test, or just plain incompetent and it doesn't matter. I waver back and forth on Guzan's culpability on Messi's free kick. I typically defend keepers because of the modern ball. When knuckled they're utterly unpredictable. This wasn't. It had typical rotation and not a ton of pace. It was beautifully placed, but don't forget that the goal is 8' tall. Guzan gambled for a shot over the wall and lost. If he's properly set and reacts I think he makes the save, perhaps comfortably. He lacks confidence when the ball is passed back to him, unsettling his defenders and forcing them to waver when using him as a pressure relief valve. The key area that the US has done very well in is producing goalkeepers. There has to be somebody waiting in the wings to claim this role.

Wondo's inclusion in the tournament roster was baffling. A start is inexplicable.

Somebody said it in the game thread and it's absolutely true: Bradley's form since his move to MLS has been awful. Pick anything: first touch, decision making, awareness, positioning, delivery... They're all significantly degraded right now. Unless something changes drastically he's done as a useful piece.

The main positive is in this crop of defenders. Time and familiarity could really meld them into a nice asset.
I think players like Bradley being in MLS makes more difference than the team playing in CONCACAF. As you say, you become what the competition makes you, but the critical competition for players is their club side, not their national team. To me, its no surprise that the back four, made up of players who play in the Premier League and Bundesliga (the two biggest pressing leagues in the world), held up fairly well last night under the Argentine high press while the midfield, made up entirely of players in MLS, completely wilted under that level of pressure.

Hopefully Hyndman, Zelalem, or both develop well over the next two years. Because that kind of aggressive swarming defensive pressure is here to stay in world football and its going to be a tactic we face again and again. Argentina isn't even known for being particularly good at pressing the ball.

Hyndman is in a good spot to develop his tactical awareness of the modern pressing game. Eddie Howe at Bournemeouth is well known for being an inventive manager in the design of pressing schemes, so he'll see that first hand and hopefully become an important part of that side. I have no idea what will happen with Zelalem, who I think has little shot of making it at Arsenal but still might become a decent professional and a useful USMNT player. A loan to a Championship side seems most likely for next year. I don't know if his growth curve will be steep enough to really help us by 2018.
 

Schnerres

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 28, 2009
1,554
Germany
Why stop there? A world-class keeper probably prevents the 3rd goal too, and more often than the Messi free kick. Yeah it was a breakaway, but Brooks was bearing down to close the angle, and he got the initial stop. He just gave up a huge, juicy rebound. 2014 Howard probably stops 2 of those first 3 goals (2016 Howard, who the hell knows). 2016 Neuer, De Gea (yesterday notwithstanding) or Cech maybe stop all three.

Not that it really mattered - we could have been out there until sunrise and not scored a goal - but the lineup choices were really frustrating. All I'll guess is that maybe Klinsmann saw stuff in camp that made him pick Guzan over Howard, and it's not lingering animus from Howard's sabbatical. Let's just hope that on Saturday he plays all the kids, all day long.
I guess due to Howards age, Klinsmann wanted to play Guzan, so he gets some playing time and experience, considering Howard will be 39y at WC Russia18.

Why everyone is hating so much on Guzan is inexplicable to me.

1) The entire defense was sleeping on the short corner, (I think it´s FJ that could have cleared that 1st pass, instead of just disturbing a little bit,) then Beckerman was sleeping to go after the lob and Guzan didn´t know if he should come out or not - GOAL1.
2) The freekick was perfectly placed, but it´s still in the keepers´corner, so...he looks bad on that one. And he knows it.
3) How someone can say that´s Guzan´s fault is ridiculous to me. Guzan is about 3m in front of the goal (where he should be!), when Higuain shoots from about 7-8m. So he´s about 5m(maximum!) in front of him and taking the cross directly, so shooting it more or less uncontrolled (instead of picking a corner after stopping the ball). So he has to wait, if he even hits the ball, hits it right at him, hits it in a corner, which one, high, low, hard, soft, spin, whatever...and then he can only react, gives up a rebound, but he can´t do anything else. That´s bad luck! And Higuain brings it home. The problem with that goal is before it comes to Guzan: The cross isn´t prevented (i don´t know who it is, but the guy is standing 4-5m away from the argentinian player, who can bring in the cross beautifully without being attacked or pressured) and then there´s John Brooks (who gets a ton of love in this thread - rightfully) sleeping, while Higuain is sneaking behind him and going for the ball and the goal. That goal is at least 90% on Brooks and the RB who doesn´t prevent the cross.
4) The last goal just shows how it should be done: press the US, they don´t know what to do with the ball. They might have been tired (i didn´t see the match, just highlights), and then Bradley played a bad ball (not the pass itself was bad, but it brought Birnbaum in a tight spot where he was pressured a lot!), I think it was Birnbaum who didn´t know what he should do with the ball (just kick it to the opposing goalie..), tried a fancy trick, i don´t know, lost the ball and it was an easy goal. Those are situations where the US defense must learn to prevent those mistakes and either play the correct pass, dribble, earn a foul call, boot the ball to the stands or get a yellow while stopping the opposing attack. Brooks/Johnson learns that at Hertha BSC/Gladbach. Will Birnbaum/Nagbe/Kitchen/... ever be able to prevent those situations?

Guzan´s faults: was involved in the 1st, the 2nd is on him. When you lose 4-0 with no chance at all, the loss isn´t on him, so he should take it as mistakes, learn from it, work on it and get better. Even the best keeper would not prevent that loss.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,447
Looking at the roster from Copa, here are the guys who will be under 30 for World Cup 2018

GK: Horvath
DF: Yedlin, Brooks, Birnbaum
MF: Nagbe, Kitchen
FW: Pulisic, Zardes

Jesus, this was an old team.

Also, let's hope JK stops cutting his nose to spite his face and plays Howard, who settles things down better than Guzan. Guzan has had a rough year with Villa, he may rebound but going back to the Gold Cup he's been super nervy. And let's hope someone among Horvath/Hamid/Johnson/Steffen/Yarbrough breaks through. We only have to hit on one.
Add Bobby Wood to the list, but your point remains.

One of the great challenges for multi-cycle managers is letting go of their old, trusted standbys and embracing the next generation of players. Arena and Bradley struggled with this and Klinsmann is, too. Wondo over Morris is a great example. Morris certainly isn't the end-all, be-all, but simply having his speed to stretch the defense would have been really useful last night, particularly compared to the big fat nothing that Wondo brought to the table.

I like Hamid at GK, but he needs to stay healthy.

Bradley's overall tournament wasn't as bad as his performance against Argentina (and I think we all agree that his performance last night wasn't just down to the quality of the opponent), but he's still off. He really needs to find a way to raise his game over the next two years before the next generation of CMs can solidify itself.

Another young CM I'd add to the watch list is Kellyn Acosta. He's only ever played LB in his few caps, cuz Klinsmann, but he's another who just needs to take one more step.
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
5,846
The thing that really struck me last night was not just the gulf in technique but in movement and spatial awareness. Argentina was so much better collectively at moving into space off the ball. Over and over again we would win the ball and then turn it over or hoof a hopeless long ball upfield because there were no available short passing options. One-touch passes are a lot easier to play when you have multiple open passing options every time you receive the ball.
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
If Klinsmann were the only manager to drop Howard this year, there might be some case to be made that the Guzan-Howard decision is "on" Klinsmann. However, that is not the case.

Howard was dropped, and sold, by Roberto Martinez as well. Maybe he's also a dolt or a dummy, maybe he's also "holding a grudge" over the sabbatical ... or maybe it is time to face the fact that Tim Howard has come to the end of the line. Two different managers, in two very different job circumstances, have dropped Howard because Howard's form and ability have dropped.

I suppose we can argue that both Klinsmann and Martinez are morons, but I kinda feel like two somewhat respected managers who are "on the hot seat" dropping the player means the player has declined.
 

teddykgb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
11,025
Chelmsford, MA
There's a gulf of difference between "not good enough for a mid table prem team" and "not better than Brad Guzan". Who, incidentally, was just good enough to get relegated from the Prem.

In terms of the movement, it's a constant complaint of mine. But when you get pinned back like the US did and midfielders and even attackers are dropping deep to cover for players who have been beaten it tends to look like that. It's hard to have a team shape that allows for open passes when you're losing so many individual battles all over the pitch
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
There's a gulf of difference between "not good enough for a mid table prem team" and "not better than Brad Guzan". Who, incidentally, was just good enough to get relegated from the Prem.
Not being privvy to practice, we can only go on what the manager sees. In this case, two guys in danger of getting fired have not used the guy. I dunno shit about the guy who replaced him at Everton, but he was a backup mid table premier league keeper. Howard lost his starting job, and then got sold for pennies on the dollar to MLS, where he hasn't set the world on fire. Guzan is a whole other discussion.

Again if it were just Klinsmann we could get all pissy with Klinsmann. But everything about Tim Howard over the past 12 months SCREAMS "this guy is in precipitous decline!" Nothing about his recent performances, anywhere, suggests that he should have been the starter. Everyone gets old - it'll happen to Gigi Buffon someday, too.
 

cromulence

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2009
6,707
I'm sorry, I know it's fun to shit on Guzan, but I think it's a bit much to say he was "good enough to get relegated from the Prem" like the state of Villa was his fault. Come on. Villa was historically bad. Of course, he was a part of that, but you could've put Neuer or anyone you want to in goal for Villa and they were going down. Guzan isn't great and certainly didn't have a good season, but I think we're being a bit unfair. He also had a strong tournament before last night.
 

teddykgb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
11,025
Chelmsford, MA
I'm sorry, I know it's fun to shit on Guzan, but I think it's a bit much to say he was "good enough to get relegated from the Prem" like the state of Villa was his fault. Come on. Villa was historically bad. Of course, he was a part of that, but you could've put Neuer or anyone you want to in goal for Villa and they were going down. Guzan isn't great and certainly didn't have a good season, but I think we're being a bit unfair. He also had a strong tournament before last night.
I don't agree. I don't know whether another keeper would have kept Villa up, and the answer is probably not. But if Howard and Guzan were both on Villa this season I think Howard would have been the starter until they were clearly going down and would turn to a younger player. I think both managers essentially made the same decision.

But what I don't agree on is his play in this tournament. He's been nervy and mistake prone throughout. His indecision last night was not a one time event. He does the same for Villa all the time. He unsettles his defenders who seldom seem to know whether he's going to come or whether he's going to show for the ball. He's made some saves, even some great saves, but I'd say he was average at best in the tournament barring last night. He's just one of those keepers with a poor command of his area and instincts that are consistently a beat too slow, imo.
 

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
Howard was replaced at Everton by Joel Robles is young, good, and was previously acquired by Martinez at Wigan so there was some familiarity with the manager. But it's less about Howard than about Guzan, who's a good shot stopper but not as good with organization and distribution.

The wildcard I think is Yarbrough, who has almost 100 starts with a good Liga MX side (including two half-season titles), I've never seen him. I've read he's energetic and good with distribution but can be mistake prone. I gotta start watching Leon matches on Univision
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
51,335
Good shot-stopper, solid enough in close quarters and 1-on-1s making himself big, but the finer points escape him. He had a clear view of Messi's lob with nobody near him to obstruct a run and/or jump to the ball. Just a stunning lack of awareness.

edit: Gosh, we get it he's a good shot stopper!!
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,447
Not being privvy to practice, we can only go on what the manager sees. In this case, two guys in danger of getting fired have not used the guy. I dunno shit about the guy who replaced him at Everton, but he was a backup mid table premier league keeper. Howard lost his starting job, and then got sold for pennies on the dollar to MLS, where he hasn't set the world on fire. Guzan is a whole other discussion.

Again if it were just Klinsmann we could get all pissy with Klinsmann. But everything about Tim Howard over the past 12 months SCREAMS "this guy is in precipitous decline!" Nothing about his recent performances, anywhere, suggests that he should have been the starter. Everyone gets old - it'll happen to Gigi Buffon someday, too.
I agree with your general point, but just want to mention that Howard hasn't set or not set anything on fire in MLS - he's not eligible to play until the summer transfer window opens in July.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,467
I have no problem with Guzan over Howard, they're similar players at this point and Howard isn't going to play in Russia. He's 37 and seems to have lost about a step a month for the last year. People can't complain that Jurgen plays old guys too much then ask him to play an ancient GK who spent the whole season looking washed.
 

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
eh, keeper is unique from outfield, it's the only spot where old guys are fine, and sometimes preferable, especially if you have young defenders like USMNT does right now. Friedel played till 43, Hungary's GK is 40. Beyond anything Guzan looks shellshocked out there, and this is the second tourney he's made big mistakes. I hope he rebounds (no pun intended).
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,467
eh, keeper is unique from outfield, it's the only spot where old guys are fine, and sometimes preferable, especially if you have young defenders like USMNT does right now. Friedel played till 43, Hungary's GK is 40. Beyond anything Guzan looks shellshocked out there, and this is the second tourney he's made big mistakes. I hope he rebounds (no pun intended).
I agree Keepers CAN play to 40, but it's an exception not the rule and Howard has not played well recently, there is more reason to think a 31 year old is in a rough patch than a 37 year old. They've been pretty similar players for a while. Also I thought Guzan was having a nice bounceback tourney, he was particularly good in the Ecuador and Paraguay matches. He stunk last night, and we could use a better keeper going forward, I just doubt it's going to be Howard. Problem is that for the first time in about 20 years we don't have a great GK pool. Hamid and Horvath are the best prospects, but both are big time question marks.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2004
24,483
The 718
I guess due to Howards age, Klinsmann wanted to play Guzan, so he gets some playing time and experience, considering Howard will be 39y at WC Russia18.

Why everyone is hating so much on Guzan is inexplicable to me.

1) The entire defense was sleeping on the short corner, (I think it´s FJ that could have cleared that 1st pass, instead of just disturbing a little bit,) then Beckerman was sleeping to go after the lob and Guzan didn´t know if he should come out or not - GOAL1.
2) The freekick was perfectly placed, but it´s still in the keepers´corner, so...he looks bad on that one. And he knows it.
3) How someone can say that´s Guzan´s fault is ridiculous to me. Guzan is about 3m in front of the goal (where he should be!), when Higuain shoots from about 7-8m. So he´s about 5m(maximum!) in front of him and taking the cross directly, so shooting it more or less uncontrolled (instead of picking a corner after stopping the ball). So he has to wait, if he even hits the ball, hits it right at him, hits it in a corner, which one, high, low, hard, soft, spin, whatever...and then he can only react, gives up a rebound, but he can´t do anything else. That´s bad luck! And Higuain brings it home. The problem with that goal is before it comes to Guzan: The cross isn´t prevented (i don´t know who it is, but the guy is standing 4-5m away from the argentinian player, who can bring in the cross beautifully without being attacked or pressured) and then there´s John Brooks (who gets a ton of love in this thread - rightfully) sleeping, while Higuain is sneaking behind him and going for the ball and the goal. That goal is at least 90% on Brooks and the RB who doesn´t prevent the cross.
4) The last goal just shows how it should be done: press the US, they don´t know what to do with the ball. They might have been tired (i didn´t see the match, just highlights), and then Bradley played a bad ball (not the pass itself was bad, but it brought Birnbaum in a tight spot where he was pressured a lot!), I think it was Birnbaum who didn´t know what he should do with the ball (just kick it to the opposing goalie..), tried a fancy trick, i don´t know, lost the ball and it was an easy goal. Those are situations where the US defense must learn to prevent those mistakes and either play the correct pass, dribble, earn a foul call, boot the ball to the stands or get a yellow while stopping the opposing attack. Brooks/Johnson learns that at Hertha BSC/Gladbach. Will Birnbaum/Nagbe/Kitchen/... ever be able to prevent those situations?

Guzan´s faults: was involved in the 1st, the 2nd is on him. When you lose 4-0 with no chance at all, the loss isn´t on him, so he should take it as mistakes, learn from it, work on it and get better. Even the best keeper would not prevent that loss.
This is a great post and you've been watching the game a lot longer than I have. I'll say this on Guzan, though: it's not his shot-stopping that worries me. He did a very good job in the last two games before this one. It's the quality of his positioning and his command of the box (or lack thereof). I saw a fair amount of Guzan with Villa this year. The team in front of him was awful and they gave up shortly after New Year's, so you have to grade on a curve. Still, he seems like he's always panicking, always in the wrong place, scrambling to get back to where he should be. Contrast a quality keeper like (fill in your favorite here), who might get beat by a good shot, but commands the box calmly, helps to organize his back four, and has an idea of what he's doing when he gets rid of the ball (Guzan's clearances are also subpar - several times last night he just kind of half-assed the ball into the middle third where, given the mismatch in MF play, we inevitably gave it up promptly).

The ring generalship is also what broke down with Howard this year. My probably worthless .02 is that this is more mental than physical, and Howard looked like he didn't have his head in the game this year - hurt no doubt also by the frustrating year at Everton generally, and Howard's deteriorating relationship with the fans after some dumb gestures on his part. But prime Howard was as mentally tough as they come. Guzan's face always has looked like his leg is caught in a bear trap - not a quality I want in my keeper.
 

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/2016/06/23/jurgen-klinsmann-usmnt-southampton-coach/86278518/?hootPostID=2c5cbd3147a9e788bb9e19979323015a
Jurgen Klinsmann was installed as the odds-on favorite to become the head coach of English Premier League soccer team Southampton on Thursday, casting some doubt over his future in charge of the United States national team.
London bookmakers were thrown into a panic by a “massive” flurry of wagers on Klinsmann to replace former boss Ronald Koeman, who accepted a contract from EPL rival Everton last week.
As of Thursday morning, Klinsmann was generally priced at 1-to-3 odds, having been available at 40-to-1 earlier in the week.
“There was a massive and sudden move in the betting market odds for Klinsmann,” Alex Donohue, spokesman for gambling firm Ladbrokes, told USA TODAY Sports. “All signs point to bettors expecting an announcement and some news very soon.”
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,447
Clearing the way for Caleb Porter to USMNT!!!
If the USSF needed to replace Jürgen this cycle, my guess is that they would choose Jason Kreis. He came in for January camp and has been around as a "special advisor". Officially, Klinsmann invited Kreis to join his staff, but I'm not so sure Kreis wasn't imposed on him.

Klinsmann's name is floated for EPL jobs with some regularity. I don't know who is putting enough money down to push his chances to such strong odds, but even so I'll believe it when I see it. He is drawing a nice salary from the USSF and any future employers are considerably less likely to give him such a long leash.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,854
And the run to the semis would have seemed to solidify his status at least through Russia no?

That said, thoughts on what Kreis would do different?
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,447
And the run to the semis would have seemed to solidify his status at least through Russia no?

That said, thoughts on what Kreis would do different?
Yes, if they were going to can Klinsmann, they would have done it a while ago. Any American manager would have been fired with extreme prejudice and raked over the coals for the 2015 Gold Cup performance, for example, but Klinsmann's magic Euro pixie dust has enabled him to be held to a lower standard than probably any US manager since the 1980s (which is ironic, given his rhetoric).

Getting to the SF at the Copa America is a good result by any standard, so there's less reason than ever to expect Klinsmann to be shown the door.

Jason Kreis has never been confused with Marcelo Bielsa or Pep Guardiola, but he's not an out-and-out tactical ignoramus like JK. I am convinced that Klinsmann was just too good and too insanely driven as a player; he's simply not able to figure out how to piece together a team of mere mortals or to explain and organize what came naturally to him. He's always speaking about what the NT needs to do in emotional terms (e.g. "get nasty!", "too much respect", work harder) because that's the primary tool in his kit.

I had hopes that Klinsmann was turning the corner during this tournament, but his decisions in the Argentina game have soured me on that idea quite a bit and made me worried that he just got a bit lucky with the system he chose in the group stage. The lack of understanding of the cascading effects that the Dempsey+Wondo combo would have on the whole team is just flabbergasting. It doesn't make a difference re: Argentina -- even with perfect tactics we were always going to lose when key players like Bradley shit the bed. But it doesn't leave me coming away convinced that Klinsmann has gotten much better at putting his players in a position to succeed, which is the core part of his job.

Kreis built a well-oiled tactical system at RSL that played some quality soccer. Of course, building a tactical scheme at a club is one thing, where you can bring in players. Building a tactical scheme for a national team is another, where you have to cobble together a system from the players you have. Furthermore, the 4-4-2 diamond that he used at RSL isn't a great fit for the US for want of someone who can play at the tip of the diamond at the international level.

I like to see prospective NT managers succeed with multiple systems at the club level and Kreis hasn't done that yet. His time at NYCFC was unsuccessful. The awful roster construction by NYCFC's management made it a somewhat inconclusive referendum on Kreis' ability (IMO), but certainly nobody can say he came away looking better than he did before.

But ultimately, Klinsmann really struggles with a lot of the basic fundamentals of coaching. Build partnerships and stability. Experiment piece by piece so you can isolate the variable. Convey a vision so that the team can be on the same page tactically. Understand the cost of playing half the team out of position. Kreis isn't necessarily The One that we NEED to hire, but I'd take him in a cocaine heartbeat.
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
Yes, if they were going to can Klinsmann, they would have done it a while ago. Any American manager would have been fired with extreme prejudice and raked over the coals for the 2015 Gold Cup performance, for example, but Klinsmann's magic Euro pixie dust has enabled him to be held to a lower standard than probably any US manager since the 1980s (which is ironic, given his rhetoric).

Getting to the SF at the Copa America is a good result by any standard, so there's less reason than ever to expect Klinsmann to be shown the door.

Jason Kreis has never been confused with Marcelo Bielsa or Pep Guardiola, but he's not an out-and-out tactical ignoramus like JK. I am convinced that Klinsmann was just too good and too insanely driven as a player; he's simply not able to figure out how to piece together a team of mere mortals or to explain and organize what came naturally to him. He's always speaking about what the NT needs to do in emotional terms (e.g. "get nasty!", "too much respect", work harder) because that's the primary tool in his kit.

I had hopes that Klinsmann was turning the corner during this tournament, but his decisions in the Argentina game have soured me on that idea quite a bit and made me worried that he just got a bit lucky with the system he chose in the group stage. The lack of understanding of the cascading effects that the Dempsey+Wondo combo would have on the whole team is just flabbergasting. It doesn't make a difference re: Argentina -- even with perfect tactics we were always going to lose when key players like Bradley shit the bed. But it doesn't leave me coming away convinced that Klinsmann has gotten much better at putting his players in a position to succeed, which is the core part of his job.

Kreis built a well-oiled tactical system at RSL that played some quality soccer. Of course, building a tactical scheme at a club is one thing, where you can bring in players. Building a tactical scheme for a national team is another, where you have to cobble together a system from the players you have. Furthermore, the 4-4-2 diamond that he used at RSL isn't a great fit for the US for want of someone who can play at the tip of the diamond at the international level.

I like to see prospective NT managers succeed with multiple systems at the club level and Kreis hasn't done that yet. His time at NYCFC was unsuccessful. The awful roster construction by NYCFC's management made it a somewhat inconclusive referendum on Kreis' ability (IMO), but certainly nobody can say he came away looking better than he did before.

But ultimately, Klinsmann really struggles with a lot of the basic fundamentals of coaching. Build partnerships and stability. Experiment piece by piece so you can isolate the variable. Convey a vision so that the team can be on the same page tactically. Understand the cost of playing half the team out of position. Kreis isn't necessarily The One that we NEED to hire, but I'd take him in a cocaine heartbeat.
I know 4-0 is not 6-0, but 534 is not 10,000, either.
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
I'd hand the sporting director keys to Earnie Stewart and let him pick whoever he wants
As an avowed JK defender, I'd be more than happy if this is the end result. Former USMNT player with Euro career and club development/management experience? Yes, please.

I kinda hope Klinsmann takes the Southampton job - and then buys John Brooks and builds a stingy defense with him as the centerpiece.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,345
Philadelphia
Southampton is now run by a pair of Germans who know nothing about football - the owner is heiress Katharina Liebherr, who pushed out the architect of the club's success and appointed as chairman a former German hockey player named Ralph Krueger. While Saints have done well in the last two years, a lot of that has involved coasting on a foundation built by the previous regime. I could totally see these two deciding that Jurgen Klinsmann is their man. Whether he wants the job or not I have no clue. It probably pays better than USMNT coach. On the other hand, he'll probably flop and be looking for a new job fairly soon.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,467
I think there's little chance Klinsmann is gone, but if he is I want to hire the best manager possible. The MLS route just screams going Full English. You never go full English.
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
5,846
As an avowed JK defender, I'd be more than happy if this is the end result. Former USMNT player with Euro career and club development/management experience? Yes, please.

I kinda hope Klinsmann takes the Southampton job - and then buys John Brooks and builds a stingy defense with him as the centerpiece.
Wouldn't he be more likely to buy Wondowloski?
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
Wouldn't he be more likely to buy Wondowloski?
Why would anyone who doesn't have to pick from the USA's shitty talent pool, from the USA's shitty pro league, ever pick Wondolowski for anything?

I mean, hate on Wondo all you want but when Klinsmann leaves and the next guy has to check the MLS leader boards for a back up striker, is he gonna pick anyone other than Wondolowski? Which shitty, subpar option is MLS gonna cough up like a hairball? What's Eddie Johnson doing these days?

It's the talent pool, stupid. /James Carville