USMNT: To Rüssia With Love

SydneySox

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Yeah, he's taken flak from us the last year or two, and been a pretty good sport about it.

At least Australia can still qualify at the expense of Honduras.
No way that's happening.

We almost lost to fucking Syria last night and our inept manager (honestly, you think your guy sucks? Wait till you meet Ange Postecogleu) left our best* player on the bench because he decided he'd play a 3 -1- 5- 1 system none of the team had ever trained in despite our best* player being a core attacking midfielder who'd have bossed the shit out of the stupid system. Luckily, Mooy, the best* player came on when his replacement got hurt after 10 minutes and provided about 3400 excellent passes that put people through on goal that they couldn't finish. Luckily our 38 year old striker scored twice, eventually. But we are going to be completely carved up by Honduras.

* I love Tommy Rogic, he's my favourite bhoy, but Mooy is very important to our team.
 

Cellar-Door

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So there's some random lawyer who is running against Gulati, but the sense I get is that he isn't really a serious candidate.

I'm really curious to see who comes out of the woodwork now. In the USSF there's historically been a strong tendency to not be introspective and to not ruffle feathers. This is a different situation. Will we see a respected and reasonable executive, former player, or someone of that ilk come out of the woodwork? (I said respected and reasonable, so Eric Wynalda doesn't count.)

I hope so. Please.

Gulati's timidity and unwillingness to acknowledge problems was a joke under Klinsmann and it's even worse now.
He just didn't give a shit. In many ways Gulati is Soccer's Roger Goodell, his job is to make a shit ton of money for a small group of people, and getting paid handsomely for it.
 

InstaFace

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Sunil is probably on the phone already with Netherlands and Chile. Then he just has to wait for a few of the UEFA playoff results and he'll find a way to make some sponsors and people some money and keep his job with his own side tournament.
We'll call it the Nations In Transition tournament, or NIT for short.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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It depends upon what the changes are. The very obvious difference is that fussbal in Germany is practically a religion and teams have the money to invest heavily in youth development. Up until very recently that was not the case in MLS. Now they are investing in academies to create team depth.

I do not think that MLS will play ball on pushing their American starters to Europe, though. I remain unconvinced that Michael Bradley and Jozy Altidore would be superstars if only they were playing in Scotland or the Netherlands. People who feel that way are likely going to continue to be pissed at MLS.
That whole back and forth push for MLS to try and get USMNT stars rests on the bedrock assumption that USMNT players are inherently marketable. That assumption just took a bit of a hit.
 

Dummy Hoy

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I do not think that MLS will play ball on pushing their American starters to Europe, though. I remain unconvinced that Michael Bradley and Jozy Altidore would be superstars if only they were playing in Scotland or the Netherlands. People who feel that way are likely going to continue to be pissed at MLS.
No one has ever said this.

If the United States wants to be a world power, the majority of its players need to play for clubs in leagues with a higher standard of football than MLS. I honestly don’t understand why that’s debatable.
 

Titans Bastard

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He just didn't give a shit. In many ways Gulati is Soccer's Roger Goodell, his job is to make a shit ton of money for a small group of people, and getting paid handsomely for it.
Gulati's position is unpaid.

Not sure if that makes it better or worse.
 

Titans Bastard

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A few quick thoughts on development:
  • As I mentioned before, the Weak Generation is ascendent. The next generation looks better (not just Pulisic)
  • the Weak Generation's key developmental years (say, 10-18) began in the early to mid 2000s. A lot has changed since then. That's not to say we're close to where we need to be, but kids coming up these days are doing so in a different environment
  • I find MLS's Rube Goldberg salary cap / player transaction rules as silly as the next guy. But if it works that way, we can tweak it to further incentivize development. Give clubs salary cap relief for academy products. Allow them to keep 100% of the transfer proceeds of academy products. Slap Clark Hunt upside the head and make FC Dallas start a USL team.
  • That being said, there are only so many rules you can put in place. More clubs needs to adopt a developmental culture. You have to invest in and then place trust in young American players. Some clubs are doing that - RSL, NYRB. Dallas used to, but have majorly regressed in that regard in 2017 (and, happily, been punished for it in the standings). But other clubs are happy to import foreigners for every single need. Portland Timbers, I'm looking at you.
 

Titans Bastard

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He's a soccer federation head, I assume he's pulling in lots of unmarked Francs to go with his constantly expensed trips and hotels stays.
Could be, but there's never been much smoke or fire to that sort of thing.

But it doesn't matter either way. It's more obvious than ever that he's in over his head. He has been a loyal servant to the game, especially in leaner times, but the job has outgrown him.
 

lars10

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yeah it didn't.
On the other hand if you can't drawT&T in 95 minutes you shouldn't go to the world cup. Also your manager, Federation head, youth development staff should be fired, your domestic league should shut down and you should burn all your stadiums to the ground and salt the ashes.
I agree that it should never have come down to today and you can't lose to T&t
 

lars10

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It was never about the coach. It is, and always will be, about the talent pool.

Who are the great players Klinsmann and Arena left home? (Ignoring the Cameron/Johnson situations, which might be complicated by their clubs for all we know) Which players in the pool, be they German or MLS, weren't given a chance?

The talent problem predates Klinsmann and Arena by a decade or two. Either coach was doomed to fail, whether they played 100 lineups or they played binkies like Omar Gonzalez despite repeated failures in search of "consistency". They were both poor, but they were poor because the talent pool was shallow.

And the best players in the pool stopped developing, or regressed. Some was due to age but some was the result of poor career decisions by the players and their own lack of effort. The players who should have been the foundation of this cycle - Bradley, Altidore - too often were not as good as it appeared they might be. The best players on this team were the youngest - Yedlin, Pulisic - so maybe the talent is going to get better and this won't happen again.

Sir Alex Ferguson in his prime might have dragged this group of underachievers to qualification. Blaming the coach, either coach, ignores the real problem.
My point is part of klinsmans job was to develop the pool.. when you ask for 8 years as a coach and control of the system you can't say the pool is too shallow after almost a decade... and then take no blame. Part of his job was to put systems and coaches in place at the youth level to find and develop talent.. (yes we start to old and high school/college soccer is a waste of time if we want to get better etc), but I thought JK was put in place to develop the whole program?
 

Titans Bastard

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My point is part of klinsmans job was to develop the pool.. when you ask for 8 years as a coach and control of the system you can't say the pool is too shallow after almost a decade... and then take no blame. Part of his job was to put systems and coaches in place at the youth level to find and develop talent.. (yes we start to old and high school/college soccer is a waste of time if we want to get better etc), but I thought JK was put in place to develop the whole program?
Klinsmann had no effect, positive or negative, on the player pool.

If you believe he did much of anything as TD (I don't think he actually performed most of those duties), his impact wouldn't be felt among the current group of adult professionals.
 

Titans Bastard

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So the core is Pulisic, Wood, Yedlin, Brooks, ... ?
Pretty much. Once you sweep away the current oldies, what's left is the few success stories of the Weak Generation and the early arrival of Pulisic.

The only other players on the current roster who will be under 30 in 2022 are Arriola and Acosta. They may turn out to be useful players, but they don't feel like core to me.

Lots of rebuilding to come.
 

lars10

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Klinsmann had no effect, positive or negative, on the player pool.

If you believe he did much of anything as TD (I don't think he actually performed most of those duties), his impact wouldn't be felt among the current group of adult professionals.
I think taking the group he took to the World Cup set a bad precedent. He also never played the same lineup twice it seemed which I do think had a negative effect on player development.

Beyond that though no country should ever promise, or give, more than one cycle to a coach unless they've done an extraordinary job and JK did not.

I'm deflecting from my anger of tonite's events... including the panama goal. I know it's soccer, but you don't need goalline technology to see that ball barely touched the line let alone crossed it.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Could you name more than 3 international teams who wouldn't be? That's an unfair standard. Shit, Toronto FC might beat the USMNT. Apples and oranges.
True. But I can watch Huddleston play every week. The US team sucks. Their style, skill...outside of the19 year old and occasional glimpses from Brooks and others, it's bad soccer. I'd rather watch middling PL than that dreck
 

Titans Bastard

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I think taking the group he took to the World Cup set a bad precedent. He also never played the same lineup twice it seemed which I do think had a negative effect on player development.

Beyond that though no country should ever promise, or give, more than one cycle to a coach unless they've done an extraordinary job and JK did not.

I'm deflecting from my anger of tonite's events... including the panama goal. I know it's soccer, but you don't need goalline technology to see that ball barely touched the line let alone crossed it.
Player development has little to do with what happens in national team programs. Klinsmann's tinkering and lack of tactical clarity resulted in disjointed team performances, but it didn't make players fundamentally worse.

Klinsmann is a bad manager, but it's a HUGE mistake to make what happened tonight all about him. Klinsmann is history and he's not our problem anymore. We clearly have many other problems that need to be addressed.
 

InstaFace

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True. But I can watch Huddleston play every week. The US team sucks. Their style, skill...outside of the19 year old and occasional glimpses from Brooks and others, it's bad soccer. I'd rather watch middling PL than that dreck
Sure, me too, for pure beauty of sporting competition. Luckily it's not a binary choice.

The World Cup, and the notion of "inter-national play" in both football and any other sport, wouldn't exist but for nationalism (and Pierre de Coubertin). That's a mixed bag, but there are positives to be seen in it if you look.
 

moly99

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No one has ever said this.
Obviously I was being a bit sarcastic.

If the United States wants to be a world power, the majority of its players need to play for clubs in leagues with a higher standard of football than MLS. I honestly don’t understand why that’s debatable.
And yet . . . are they bad because they are in MLS, or are they in MLS because they just aren't good enough to be starting in the biggest leagues in Europe? For all but a handful of players my money is on the latter possibility.
 

Warning Track Speed

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I can't believe we fucking lost to T&T with a WC spot on the line.
I really don't get angry at sports much anymore, but. GODDAMMIT. Ahem. And the next World Cup we're eligible for will be played in what, December? Lovely. And the one after that, which we may get to play in for free because we may get to host it if we bribe enough people, will feature what, 96 teams?

I was really looking forward to going to Russia and getting peed on by hookers. What a letdown.
 

Dummy Hoy

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Obviously I was being a bit sarcastic.



And yet . . . are they bad because they are in MLS, or are they in MLS because they just aren't good enough to be starting in the biggest leagues in Europe? For all but a handful of players my money is on the latter possibility.
I can see that you could very well be right, but what I saw was that two of the most promising young players of TB's "weak generation" came quickly back to MLS at the first sign of struggle in Europe and we all watched their ability to impact games at international level wither after the move back. I'm not blaming MLS necessarily, but I think it's going to be a long time before our best players are developed domestically, and that is a problem that needs to be addressed at every level from U6 pay to play travel teams to the MLS. But the MLS ain't helping.
 

biollante

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Sometimes when you tread water, you don't make it. How can the U.S. not have a young goalie to start for the US team ? So many questions, so little talent. Pulisic is kicking himself for not playing for Croatia.
 
I blame Trump for all of this. Does anyone think Mexico wouldn't have tried harder to win yesterday under a Hillary Clinton administration? [/scaldinghottake]

Slightly more seriously, I am glad Trump will find it slightly harder to launch another culture war next summer - you know he'd love to tweet during the World Cup that real men play real football or some other excrement like that. But man, this sucks. As it happens, I'm in the same hotel in Vienna where I was last November, and waking up to find out that the USA is out of the World Cup gives me flashbacks to waking up to find out that Trump is about to win the presidency. Damn them all to hell.
Pulisic is kicking himself for not playing for Croatia.
Yeah, but Borussia Dortmund has to be happy. (As does Arsenal, er, whoever winds up paying big £ or € to Alexis Sanchez after this season...)
 

Spacemans Bong

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Player development has little to do with what happens in national team programs. Klinsmann's tinkering and lack of tactical clarity resulted in disjointed team performances, but it didn't make players fundamentally worse.

Klinsmann is a bad manager, but it's a HUGE mistake to make what happened tonight all about him. Klinsmann is history and he's not our problem anymore. We clearly have many other problems that need to be addressed.
The US probably (?) qualifies if Arena was coach for the whole cycle, but I give Klinsmann a certain amount of credit for noticing the problems in the US set up. His wholesale importation of Germericans, frustration with players who choose to take the easy money in MLS rather than test themselves in Europe, and frustration with the travel team/college development pathway that stinks were spot on. He just wasn't good enough of a manager to overcome those.

An angry rant from a guy who just can't keep tabs on the US setup thanks to time zone differences and lack of access (I think the only way to legally watch the games here was on Bet365) but I think an accurate one.
 

Bailey10

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Most galling errors from these final two games, from my admittedly pro-Europe anti-MLS POV, was not starting Cameron and the overall omission of Fabian Johnson.

I'm pinning most of the blame here on Arena, and Gulati for hiring him after cutting bait with Klinnsman.

These are both players who have proven, unlike most of their squadmates, that they can get time week in, week out in the world's top leagues.

There is no reason a healthy Cameron should not be starting every USMNT. And with Fabian Johnson, I don't care if he's hit a bit of a purple patch this season. The pedigree is there. He was one of the US' best players last world cup. There is absolutely no reason for him not to make the squad. Don't you think he could have made a difference last night over Benny Feilhaber as a sub? Or that his potential makes him more deserving of a position than Wondo?

I'm absolutely sickened by the USMNT setup and federation as a whole. As mentioned above, the squad is full of soft players who decided to take a payday in the MLS because it was easier than having to improve and battle for their positions against other top talents abroad. The entire country has now paid the price for this attitude.
 

SocrManiac

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I don’t think this point can be reiterated enough

I was born in ‘82 and played in New Hampshire. The path to the US player pool, as I understand it, went through what was then called ODP, or the Olympic Development Program. We all tried out for the team starting in either late middle school or early high school.

I was never a world class talent, nor would any coach worth a paycheck have been fooled into thinking so. I was one of at least a dozen keepers at the U16 level and probably fell somewhere in the middle of the pack.

A couple of weeks after the deadline had passed, I got the call that I had made the team. A packet came in the mail. Registration, coach’s fees, uniforms, travel expenses... It was close to $20k. Players with financial hardship (who wouldn’t that include?) could do fundraisers to help offset the cost. Needless to say... I didn’t join the team.

They team that was ultimately assembled DID play in our premiere division every spring. They were generally in the bottom half of the table. We beat up on them regularly.

This is the system that generated the older side of the age range last night. I’m totally ignorant to change in the intervening years, but it doesn’t sound like it’s changed much. Certainly the results suggest it hasn’t.
 

soxfan121

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My point is part of klinsmans job was to develop the pool.. when you ask for 8 years as a coach and control of the system you can't say the pool is too shallow after almost a decade... and then take no blame. Part of his job was to put systems and coaches in place at the youth level to find and develop talent.. (yes we start to old and high school/college soccer is a waste of time if we want to get better etc), but I thought JK was put in place to develop the whole program?
Not only is this the wrong argument, it is the wrong argument about the wrong guy.

You know who was the coach when this generation of players were coming up through the development system? Bruce Arena. And still, he doesn't deserve much, if any, blame for the shallow talent pool. Blaming Klinsmann is sort of like blaming Dave Dombrowski that the 2003 Red Sox didn't have a good farm system.

If we're blaming coaches for anything, we can smash Arena for the Cameron/Johnson situations (though, as I said last night, we don't know what their club/individual situations are, and I'm leery of smashing a player again for that after drilling Nagbe last year and finding out he skipped because of a family/health issue).

Finally, to repeat another thing said last night, that should be Tim Howard's final appearance for the USMNT. He was godawful. His reflexes/reactions have slowed so much that he feels he needs to take more chances, resulting in shit like that foray out of the 6 yard box that almost resulted in a turnover/easy goal. He was beaten badly on the distance shot, barely escaped several other tight spots, and generally looked like a 40 year old doddering around out there.

Howard was a terrific player in his prime, and wonderful servant to the NT, but the time has come. Retire today, Tim.

Also, one of the questions asked of NT manager candidates should be "Would Wondolowski be on your roster?" and anyone who doesn't ask "Wondowlowski? Him?" in return should be kicked out the door and his application ripped up.
 

OCST

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Between the Sox, this fiasco, and Everton, I am about to replace "watching sports" with "smacking my balls repeatedly with a hammer," to the same effect.
 

Silverdude2167

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Out of curiosity and away from my rage towards the usmnt for a moment

Can't FIFA do something about Panama's first goal? There is no question that it did not come close to going in, why can't it be take away it something? I don't understand how it was even awarded as a goal.
 

fiskful of dollars

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Nope. If they didn't do anything last cycle after Ireland got jobbed by France (much more egregious, in my opinion) they won't (they can't really) do anything about this. Nor should they. USMNT played poorly all cycle and, while their performance last night was abysmal, it should have NEVER come down to the wire like this.
 

fiskful of dollars

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I am a Tim Howard fan but I agree - he looked shaky on both goals and a few other near misses. As I recall, T&T actually should have been awarded a PK to go up 3-0 in the first half. Howard's footwork on both the OG and the (admittedly) stellar strike was not ideal and he looked a bit slow to react to both. Not laying the blame for yesterday's shitshow at his feet - the entire team was leaden in the first 45. I thought they were better in the second half and had several chances. Hurts.
 

lars10

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Not only is this the wrong argument, it is the wrong argument about the wrong guy.

You know who was the coach when this generation of players were coming up through the development system? Bruce Arena. And still, he doesn't deserve much, if any, blame for the shallow talent pool. Blaming Klinsmann is sort of like blaming Dave Dombrowski that the 2003 Red Sox didn't have a good farm system.

If we're blaming coaches for anything, we can smash Arena for the Cameron/Johnson situations (though, as I said last night, we don't know what their club/individual situations are, and I'm leery of smashing a player again for that after drilling Nagbe last year and finding out he skipped because of a family/health issue).

Finally, to repeat another thing said last night, that should be Tim Howard's final appearance for the USMNT. He was godawful. His reflexes/reactions have slowed so much that he feels he needs to take more chances, resulting in shit like that foray out of the 6 yard box that almost resulted in a turnover/easy goal. He was beaten badly on the distance shot, barely escaped several other tight spots, and generally looked like a 40 year old doddering around out there.

Howard was a terrific player in his prime, and wonderful servant to the NT, but the time has come. Retire today, Tim.

Also, one of the questions asked of NT manager candidates should be "Would Wondolowski be on your roster?" and anyone who doesn't ask "Wondowlowski? Him?" in return should be kicked out the door and his application ripped up.
I generally agree about Howard but I think part of the reason he and others looked slow was because of how waterlogged that field was.. the ball definitely didn't seem to travel easy and I wonder how hard it was to get footing.

It's time (beyond time) to start playing many more younger players. Let's give some people experience over the next two to three years.

It really still hasn't set in.
 

Titans Bastard

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I can see that you could very well be right, but what I saw was that two of the most promising young players of TB's "weak generation" came quickly back to MLS at the first sign of struggle in Europe and we all watched their ability to impact games at international level wither after the move back. I'm not blaming MLS necessarily, but I think it's going to be a long time before our best players are developed domestically, and that is a problem that needs to be addressed at every level from U6 pay to play travel teams to the MLS. But the MLS ain't helping.
A few nits: Bradley (87) and Altidore (89) aren't part of what I've (arbitrarily, tbf) defined as the Weak Generation (90-94) the 85-89 cohort is stronger and also includes Cameron (85), Feilhaber (85), Kljestan (85), Holden (85), Edu (86), Spector (86), Davies (86), Zusi (86), Besler (87), Bedoya (87), Ream (87), Torres (87), Gonzalez (88), Villafana (89), and Adu (89).

It's not the greatest generation ever, obviously, but it's clearly superior to the 90-94 group, which is just so small and not at all good. If the 85-89 group could play the 90-94 group when each group was at a similar age, the former would crush the latter.

As far as developing our best players domestically, that's the only choice. We can and are sending many of our best prospects to "finishing school" in Europe once they turn 18 (and in a few cases, 16), but so much key development happens before the age of 18 and that's necessarily going to have to happen in the US whether anyone likes it or not. We need to get better.

Dortmund are good at development, but nobody is an alchemist. They can't create Pulisics out of thin air. We have to create players who are already that good by age 16/18.

Most galling errors from these final two games, from my admittedly pro-Europe anti-MLS POV, was not starting Cameron and the overall omission of Fabian Johnson.
I don't think you have to have a "pro-Europe anti-MLS" view to question the decision to start Gonzalez over Cameron in both games. Cameron just returned from injury so I can understand not wanting him to go 90 twice due to fitness concerns. Benching him twice was a bad move.

I don’t think this point can be reiterated enough

I was born in ‘82 and played in New Hampshire. The path to the US player pool, as I understand it, went through what was then called ODP, or the Olympic Development Program. We all tried out for the team starting in either late middle school or early high school.

I was never a world class talent, nor would any coach worth a paycheck have been fooled into thinking so. I was one of at least a dozen keepers at the U16 level and probably fell somewhere in the middle of the pack.

A couple of weeks after the deadline had passed, I got the call that I had made the team. A packet came in the mail. Registration, coach’s fees, uniforms, travel expenses... It was close to $20k. Players with financial hardship (who wouldn’t that include?) could do fundraisers to help offset the cost. Needless to say... I didn’t join the team.

They team that was ultimately assembled DID play in our premiere division every spring. They were generally in the bottom half of the table. We beat up on them regularly.

This is the system that generated the older side of the age range last night. I’m totally ignorant to change in the intervening years, but it doesn’t sound like it’s changed much. Certainly the results suggest it hasn’t.

ODP is no longer relevant to the NT, but pay-to-play is still a problem. Nobody likes pay-to-play except the clubs reaping the profits, but who is going to fund youth soccer? One solution that has been bandied about is for the USSF to get on board with training compensation and solidarity fees. I'm all for that because it promotes the right incentives, but I'm deeply skeptical that it will make a huge dent in costs to players/families.


The biggest changes that have occurred over the past ten years have been the creation of the Development Academy in 2007 and the establishment of MLS academies. The purpose of the DA is to funnel all of the best players into a smaller number of programs, which play fewer games (i.e. not 4x/weekend) against better quality competition. From what I can tell the DA has gotten better over time, but it ain't exactly the U19 Bundesliga.

MLS academies are mostly fully-funded. Even the cheap-o Revs don't charge kids to be part of their academy. That helps remove financial barriers to academies (and removes the dynamic where clubs are beholden to families who have poured money into the club over the years even if the kid is clearly not competitive at age 17). But some academies are better than others, some clubs are better than others at integrating academy players into the pros, and 19 American MLS clubs can only incorporate so many players in a huge country.
 

DJnVa

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Whatever the next tournament is for the US, they should play no one over the age of 26 and take any lumps that come their way. We are now missing out on 25%, maybe 33%, of Pulisic's World Cup career. That's criminal.

In a do or die game, we lost to a nation with the population of Dallas, TX and the size of Delaware that had nothing to play for. Per the FIFA Rankings (I know), the US was ostensibly closer to Belgium in quality than T&T was to the US.

I have no idea who could clean house, but anyone active in this cycle--from senior team through the youth--needs to go. Bring in the Icelandic coaches.
 

DJnVa

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Oh, and someone change the thread title.

When's Qatar qualifying start?
 

McBride11

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If we're blaming coaches for anything, we can smash Arena for the Cameron/Johnson situations (though, as I said last night, we don't know what their club/individual situations are, and I'm leery of smashing a player again for that after drilling Nagbe last year and finding out he skipped because of a family/health issue).

Also, one of the questions asked of NT manager candidates should be "Would Wondolowski be on your roster?" and anyone who doesn't ask "Wondowlowski? Him?" in return should be kicked out the door and his application ripped up.
What is the club question about Cameron / Johnson? It was an official international date no? If these were minor injuries and the clubs said hey please don't play them so they are good to go 100% in 5 days, he is an even bigger fool.
 

DJnVa

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Okay, who WILL be the next coach and who SHOULD be?

The US is gonna throw money at someone, who will it be?
 

soxfan121

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What is the club question about Cameron / Johnson? It was an official international date no? If these were minor injuries and the clubs said hey please don't play them so they are good to go 100% in 5 days, he is an even bigger fool.
We don't know. It says so, right in the post you're quoting and questioning.

As stated, maybe there is a club or individual situation we don't know about. Again, as stated, the last time something like this happened I torched Nagbe for it, only to find out he declined the call up to be present for the birth of a child (or something similarly "personal"). And at the time @Infield Infidel made a terrific point that while we know lots of things, we can't know everything, and sometimes players have personal situations or club commitments they should absolutely ask to be honored.

Now, if Johnson was left home because he wasn't one of the best 23 players, Arena should be beaten with a rubber hose. If Cameron wasn't played because Arena thought Gonzalez (or Besler!) was a better choice, that is proof he is a grade-A moron who should be fired out of a cannon into the sun.

But if Johnson wasn't called up because he's got an ill parent and a lingering injury/recovery, and told Arena that, then not calling him up is understandable (if infuriating, for this fan). And if Cameron tried to go in practice but had a minor setback and told Arena he couldn't play, then that too is understandable.

Both decisions - not playing Cameron, and leaving FJ off the roster - are bad without additional context. We might never find out what that other context was. But there's definitely scenarios in which the coach and the player(s) aren't to blame.
 

JayMags71

Member
SoSH Member
Okay, who WILL be the next coach and who SHOULD be?

The US is gonna throw money at someone, who will it be?
If Giovanni Trappatoni were a couple of years pungent, I would say him. Is there someone else in that mold - a manager with gravitas that can whip a dysfunctional system into shape? Maybe Mick McCarthy?

Or how about someone who’s proven they can extend limited resources, Manuel Pellegrini did with Malaga, or Claudio Ranieri with Leicester City?

Bear in mind, I’m talking about dream candidates, not people who’ll actually be considered, or would take the job in a million years.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,037
Well, let's add that to equation:

1--Who will it be?

2--Dream, but somewhat realistic, choice?

3--No way in hell.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,642
Will? Some USSF or American MLS hack. Say Ramos? Vermes?

Dream but possible- Bielsa.

No way in hell but fun to dream- Allegri, Tuchel, Emery

An interesting compromise between MLS and European experience might be Tata Martinez only MLS manager worth consideration
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
1. Jason Kreis, or some other MLS trained manager with zero international experience who owns a polo shirt with an American flag design.

2. Thierry Henry. Has been on staff with Belgium, club and international credibility as a player, MLS experience, would take it because it cuts out the next four-six years he'd spend as an apprentice with a real program.

3. Carlo's Eyebrow. Has nothing else going on, is very attractive, has a history of taking a floundering/listless program and getting it back on track. Now, Carlo Ancelotti will probably get another top tier job soon, but maybe the Eyebrow can be surgically removed and given the reins of the USMNT.

Carlo's Eyebrow knows more about soccer than all of Bruce Arena and Jurgen Klinsmann put together.
 

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
Earnie Stewart should be Director of Football. He wants the job and he's beyond qualified.

Short term though, there's the election in February for USSF chief, so I think the best move would be to have an interim coach until the new chief is elected. The chief should start with a blank slate, and hopefully hire Stewart to manage the program.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,456
Who it WILL be really depends on who is doing the hiring.

If any program that the US considers, or would like to consider, to be a peer finished 5th in the forgiving Hex qualification format, the federation president and NT manager would be handing in resignations today. It's still the morning, but I don't see signs of that happening.

Gulati's comments last night indicate that his ability to ignore problems in front of his face have reached a stupendous proportion. This is in no small part due to his own culpability in the current state of affairs.

If Gulati makes the next hire, I honestly think it will be one of the guys @Cellar-Door mentioned: Ramos or Vermes. Vermes would be a better choice than Ramos, but neither should be considered.

Porter isn't a bad MLS coach, but I don't think he's a great one. Furthermore, his utter lack of interest in American players in Portland should be disqualifying. We are entering a cycle in which the manager will need to trust young American players.

Of course, Gulati should not be the one making the next hire. I hope that enough pressure is put to bear to force a change in leadership. If it's someone new, perhaps we'll look at more interesting candidates.

The nightmare scenario is that Ramos is named interim, he wins a few friendlies, and is given the job.
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,550
KPWT
3. Carlo's Eyebrow. Has nothing else going on, is very attractive, has a history of taking a floundering/listless program and getting it back on track. Now, Carlo Ancelotti will probably get another top tier job soon, but maybe the Eyebrow can be surgically removed and given the reins of the USMNT.

Carlo's Eyebrow knows more about soccer than all of Bruce Arena and Jurgen Klinsmann put together.

This right here. Carlo or LVG are great ideas. One of the big EPL managers is going to finish 6th this year and could be searching for a job...

What the program needs is credibility and someone from outside the local corruption to destroy everything and rebuild it. We also need someone who can perform the miracle of selling the CCVs and other players with European / Latin American options besides the US to play for us, without a World Cup to offer, Julian Green style. Random MLS guy isn't winning that sales pitch.

Perhaps the big European guy would only have a goal of winning the important (Confed qualifying) Gold Cup and could then transfer to MLS guy X, but in the short term, after Gulati, Arena, Ramos and everyone who has their personal cell phone number is fired, a highly credible and expensive outsider who has nothing but contempt for MLS and their quest for profits and security and isn't afraid to burn this motherfucker down is what is needed.