Volin's Folly? Brady, trust issues, and the future of Danny Amendola

Van Everyman

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Per Volin in today's Globe:

■ Danny Amendola may be fighting for a roster spot come March 11, the first day of the 2014 league year. Amendola signed a five-year deal worth $28.5 million ($10 million guaranteed last March), and $2 million of his $3 million base salary in 2014 becomes guaranteed if he’s on the roster at 4 p.m. on March 11. Amendola is coming off a disappointing season in which he missed four games and lost Tom Brady’s trust, and could be in danger of being cut. It would cost the Patriots $4.8 million against the cap to outright cut him, which seems unlikely given their tight cap situation, but they could designate him a post-June 1 cut, which would give him cap charges of $1.2 million in 2014 and $3.6 million in 2015. The Patriots could then use those savings to sign free agent Julian Edelman.


http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/01/26/who-are-best-coaches-baseball/3gWjuP6LVgJgA1No6uOQqJ/story.html

Hadn't heard he lost Brady's trust. That's not good.
 

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Van Everyman said:
Per Volin in today's Globe:



http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/01/26/who-are-best-coaches-baseball/3gWjuP6LVgJgA1No6uOQqJ/story.html

Hadn't heard he lost Brady's trust. That's not good.
 
You haven't heard it because Volin likely made it up. I seriously doubt Volin was told by Brady or anyone in the organization that Brady doesn't trust Amendola.  That just isn't how the organization operates. Moreover, Volin doesn't mention anything more than missing 4 games when it was clear to all of us that Amendola's groin was hurt all year. 
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Van Everyman said:
Per Volin in today's Globe:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/01/26/who-are-best-coaches-baseball/3gWjuP6LVgJgA1No6uOQqJ/story.html

Hadn't heard he lost Brady's trust. That's not good.
 
This is very hard to believe.
 
Amendola was limited with only 662 snaps (which we all know of), but within that he managed +6.8 PFF rating, which was good for 32nd best with 25% snaps played. (Quick comparison to Welker: WW accumulated a +7.1 rating with almost 40% more snaps -- 930 -- fell off sharply in the last 5 games as he suffered through poor play and concussion issues with -1.9, -0.1, -1.7, -1.2, and 0.1 ratings). 
 
His two worst games were the two Denver games (-2.7 and -2.0) but he had performed reasonably well on pretty much all other games when considering that he was playing with a torn groin. DA was also (surprisingly) the best blocking WR on the Pats, only regular with a + rating of 1.1 (also surprisingly, Edelman was rating the worst by far with a -3.2 grade).
 
When Pats don't have a lot of room, cutting Amendola and add to the cap hit simply is not good business. 
 
I went back and have started to re-watch games, and am about half way through. What stood out was the separation and the quickness Amendola had in the Buffalo game, which he pretty much won it along with Brady and Vereen. I think that's what we should expect in season 2, and in a free agent market where you can't point to a sure-bet receiving option (other than pie-in-the-sky Graham option), it'd be foolhardy to cut bait on Amendola now. 
 
In that I disagree with both Volin and Kyed -- WR group should be left alone. Get Amendola healthy, trust that the rookies make the leap (I think Boyce could follow the Vereen-like year 2 jump), and spend the little cap room you have elsewhere.
 
Edit: I also took a quick peek at WR ratings from ANS (http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=WR) and didn't expect to see DA rated high. Amendola is 10th in WPA (Win Probability Added) and 23rd in EPA (Expected Points Added). For a dude who played with a completely detached groin for 13.5 games, that's pretty remarkable. 
 
Edit 2: more stat cherry picking. When targeted, DA got Brady a 97.3 pass rating with 54 rec. in 82 targets (2 TDs, no INTs). That's 28th among WRs with at least 25% of targets, putting him ahead of TY Hilton (36th), Cordarrelle Patterson (47th), and Victor Cruz (49th). 
 

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I agree with Dogman.  
 
You hear a bunch of talk about people earning Brady's trust and its obvious he doesn't target them during the learning period. The rookies early in this year for instance, Ocho the whole season, etc. You don't hear of people who "earn" the trust and then suddenly lose it.  Amendola had Brady's trust when he was healthy and "lost" it when he played the majority of the year with a detached groin. Trust isn't the variable in Amendola's amount of targets, his lack of burst and ability to get open was.  It's bullshit reporting.
 

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PaulinMyrBch said:
I agree with Dogman.  
 
You hear a bunch of talk about people earning Brady's trust and its obvious he doesn't target them during the learning period. The rookies early in this year for instance, Ocho the whole season, etc. You don't hear of people who "earn" the trust and then suddenly lose it.  Amendola had Brady's trust when he was healthy and "lost" it when he played the majority of the year with a detached groin. Trust isn't the variable in Amendola's amount of targets, his lack of burst and ability to get open was.  It's bullshit reporting.
 
Also consider this -- as the focus shifted to a more run-oriented game plan, DA was simply not out there as much in the last 4 games (32 snaps vs. Baltimore, followed by 33 vs Buffalo, 40 vs Indy, then finally 41 vs Denver). 32 and 33 snaps played were his season-low. 
 
Let's take a look at how DA did in the games with most snaps played (59 vs. Buffalo, 62 vs. Cleveland, and 66 vs. Miami). In those 3 games, Amendola had statistically the best games of his season with +3.8, +3.0, and +2.4 ratings. 
 
When given the opportunity, DA has produced. Not as much as we all hoped for sure, but certainly not to a level where it signals some sort of a trust issue or mark of a player that should be considered as a cut candidate, especially with the negative cap hit. 
 

Byrdbrain

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Amendola is on the team next year due to the cap ramifications, after that is very much up in the air.
I'm sure Voilin's comment is in reference to the Champ. game where per people who watched the All-22 said Amendola was wide open several times, particularly on the pass to Slater, and Brady never looked his way. 
 

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Byrdbrain said:
Amendola is on the team next year due to the cap ramifications, after that is very much up in the air.
I'm sure Voilin's comment is in reference to the Champ. game where per people who watched the All-22 said Amendola was wide open several times, particularly on the pass to Slater, and Brady never looked his way. 
That's dumb too, considering Brady has a series of reads he goes through and didn't have the protection that day to go very deep into them. Maybe Amendola wasn't his first read on most plays, but that would speak to McDaniels' gameplanning more than Brady "trusting" DA. And it could also be because he hadn't been getting open consistently...since he was playing hurt all season.
 
Brady doesn't have the ability to stand back there and in a split second find the one guy of 4 or 5 receivers who is open...that's not how offenses work.
 
It makes zero sense to add $4.8 to the cap to save $3 m, even if it's spread over two years.
 

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Particularly given where that leaves the Pats at WR if they then can't re up Edelman. His production needs to improve next year to stick in '15 but seems crazy to cut him now.
 

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Here are targets / snaps / % | receptions | ratings for all NE WRs, assuming targets is a decent stat to represent "trust":
  • Edelman: 146 / 1,165 / 12.5% | 105 | 103.0
  • Amendola: 82 / 662 / 12.4% | 54 | 97.3
  • Dobson: 71 / 578 / 12.3% | 37 | 83.0
  • Thompkins: 69 / 627 / 11% | 32 | 88.2
Hey whaddaya know, Brady targeted his top 3 receivers remarkably equally when % of targets/snaps are calculated.
 
Also, if we project out a healthy Amendola who plays the same number of snaps as Edelman in 2013, that represent a 56.8% increase in production or 94-95 receptions. Not too shabby.
 
So what does 94 receptions mean? Tied as the #7 in the NFL, with Kendall Wright, better than Demaryius Thomas (92), Eric Decker (87), Boldin (85), Fitz (82) and a bunch more. 
 
There's absolutely no statistical basis for Ben's (throwaway) assertion. 
 

Byrdbrain

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Toe Nash said:
That's dumb too, considering Brady has a series of reads he goes through and didn't have the protection that day to go very deep into them. Maybe Amendola wasn't his first read on most plays, but that would speak to McDaniels' gameplanning more than Brady "trusting" DA. And it could also be because he hadn't been getting open consistently...since he was playing hurt all season.
 
Brady doesn't have the ability to stand back there and in a split second find the one guy of 4 or 5 receivers who is open...that's not how offenses work.
 
It makes zero sense to add $4.8 to the cap to save $3 m, even if it's spread over two years.
I agree with you just passing on what I'm sure his thought process is. I stopped following him on Twitter(I like to rewind plays to rewatch them and I swear to god he thinks there is a prize to tweet out results with no analysis faster than anyone else) but someone on radio said he tweeted the info about Brady ignoring an open Amendola. 
 

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Volin and pals are rooting for Amendola to get cut because to them he's Welker's replacement and they want him to get cut so they can shit all over the Pats for Welker leaving and their not replacing him adequately. Period. This losing trust storyline is garbage.
 

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I had high hopes for Volin until I read that article.  No mention of the fact that Amendola caught 10 balls in a game on 12/15 against the Dolphins.  
 
I guess the "lost Brady's trust" meme is always a safe one to play if you don't know what you're writing about.  No mention of the fact that in nearly all cases the receivers that "Brady lost trust in" have either been receivers that never did anything, or over the hill veterans that did nothing after Brady was done with them; Amendola doesn't fit in either pile, last I checked. 
 

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Adding to Seoul's post, Amendola was also 21 in WR DVOA. He was an above average receiver this year.

I'm not surprised that Volin wrote this. I've found a lot of his stuff to be sensationalistic and based mostly on what happened in the last game or two. Not impressed.
 

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In Volin's defense, what he said here about Hightower looks remarkably prescient now. Or was that Kyed and I'm just an idiot?
 

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MarcSullivaFan said:
Adding to Seoul's post, Amendola was also 21 in WR DVOA. He was an above average receiver this year.

I'm not surprised that Volin wrote this. I've found a lot of his stuff to be sensationalistic and based mostly on what happened in the last game or two. Not impressed.
 
He's so damn vague that we don't know if he's speculating or reporting [or, I guess, doing that sports reporter thing where they "publish things in newspaper that they'd heard from sources but not actually reporting"]  (1) that Amendola could get cut or (2) that Brady lost faith in Amendola. 
 

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MarcSullivaFan said:
Adding to Seoul's post, Amendola was also 21 in WR DVOA. He was an above average receiver this year.

I'm not surprised that Volin wrote this. I've found a lot of his stuff to be sensationalistic and based mostly on what happened in the last game or two. Not impressed.
I'm a bit disappointed in him as a Bedard replacement. He doesn't seem to have found reliable sources yet and is doing what seems to be a lot of guesswork. Brady did say he and Amendola may never have the chemistry he and Welker had (I heard it mentioned from the CBS announcers I believe) which does set some alarm bells ringing but to say he has "lost Brady's trust" is a huge leap. Bedard recently said on twitter that Amendola's groin injury limited him to 75%-80% effectiveness with diminished ability to make cuts.
 
I'd bet Amendola rests, gets healthy in the offseason, works out with Brady and comes back a beast next year (barring more injuries of course).
 

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I think asking about Brady and Amendola's chemistry in context (acknowleding Amendola's injury, noting the cap hit rises in '15) is fine.  Brady didnt throw to him much after the missed TD pass late in Miami and Reiss noted the way Brady answered a question about Amendola in a radio interview and contrasted it with the way he talked about Edelman.  Its possible Brady isnt completely happy with Amendola given Brady is notorious hard on receivers and exacerbated by Welker playing in the Super Bowl this week.
It's true that Brady didn't throw to Amendola much after the Miami game, but I'm not sure how much that's an indictment of Amendola. Amendola played his two heaviest snap total games against Cleveland and Miami, but those were the two weeks that both Dobson and Thompkins were out. In the final four games, at least one of those guys was available, and Amendola went back to being primarily used in 3-WR sets. And against Baltimore, Buffalo, and Indianapolis, they used a lot of 2-WR / 2-TE sets and ran a lot, which definitely contributed to Amendola's lack of targets. He only went out for passes 22, 19, and 22 times in those three games; he only had 2 other games below 30 in the games he played. The only game where there's a case Brady didn't trust him was Denver, where he went out for a pass 34 times and was only targeted once, but that could have been the defense or matchup or whatever.
 
I do think it's an interesting question whether Edelman and Amendola are too similar to complement each other well and they should pursue a guy with a different skill set like Decker or Boldin or somebody, but it doesn't seem to make any sense to cut Amendola to re-sign Edelman in that case.
 

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In an interview with Shalize Manza Young two days before the AFCCG, Tom Brady said:
 

“I think being in a system where it’s about route running and route technique and route discipline and concepts and signals and adjustments and things like that, that’s kind of the way our offense is, that’s the way that offense always has been,” Tom Brady said. “Not that the offenses are the same because there are some different things but when you run a 14-yard in-cut, whether you’re wearing a Patriots jersey or a Broncos jersey, those are the same things.
 
“Ultimately it’s going to be about running routes and creating separation, enough separation where I feel confident to be able to throw you the football.
 
“Austin has a good idea of that. Julian [Edelman] has a good idea of that being here with me. Danny [Amendola] came in and he’s getting an understanding of that."
 
 
 
Between that quote, the Volin comment, and the game (where Amendola had no catches and was targeted once), I am concerned. 
 

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Frisbetarian said:
 
In an interview with Shalize Manza Young two days before the AFCCG, Tom Brady said:
 

 
 
Between that quote, the Volin comment, and the game (where Amendola had no catches and was targeted once), I am concerned. 

 
 
The quote is pretty damning.  Yeah, after almost a year Amendola is starting to figure out what Tom looks for in a receiver, just like Collie did in about an hour and a half of practices.
 

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Shelterdog said:
 
The quote is pretty damning.  Yeah, after almost a year Amendola is starting to figure out what Tom looks for in a receiver, just like Collie did in about an hour and a half of practices.
 
Well, what's done is done.  As long as Amendola has it figured out by next season, everything should be good, right?
 

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Shelterdog said:
 
The quote is pretty damning.  Yeah, after almost a year Amendola is starting to figure out what Tom looks for in a receiver, just like Collie did in about an hour and a half of practices.
Collie had played for years with Peyton Manning in another sophisticated Erhardt-Perkins offense, while Amendola had largely been in dysfunctional West Coast offenses with mediocre QB play. It's a little disappointing he's not 100% up-to-speed, but he was pretty productive despite it - this isn't a Donald Hayes / Joey Galloway situation.
 

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This jibes with Volin on TV backing off his comment and agreeing with Buckley that the Brady trust in Amendola never developed in the first place.
 

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lambeau said:
This jibes with Volin on TV backing off his comment and agreeing with Buckley that the Brady trust in Amendola never developed in the first place.
 
That makes zero sense. In 12 games Amendola had 54 catches for 633 yards. Pro-rated to all 16 games that's 72 catches for 844 yards. And that's with Amendola injured from Game 1. Volin's a goddamn toolbox.
 
You don't throw the ball to a guy 54 times if you're not on the same page. You know who wasn't on the same page and didn't have Brady's trust? Ocho. That's what you get when Brady doesn't trust you to run the right routes.
 
This all strikes me as overblown nonsense stemming from parsing words too finely, and again, from a strong media desire to see Amendola fail so they can kill the Pats for "replacing" Welker with him.
 

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Caught 10 for 104 and played really well in the one game before he ripped his groin.  He needs to show he can stay healthy for a full season, but hard to watch that game and think this is a guy that can't play in the Pats offense.
 

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This jibes with Volin on TV backing off his comment and agreeing with Buckley that the Brady trust in Amendola never developed in the first place.


Which is still not right. As I had poster earlier, Amendola was targeted exactly 0.1% less than Edelman per snap.

I even heard Gresh and Zolak going on about the "buzz" that Amendola may be cut. What fucking "buzz" is there other than Ben's unsubstantiated article? Brady's one line quote about DA?

Unless Volin is holding back something more solid, as Shelter alluded to earlier, this is a non-starter that fills Pats news cycle. It happens every year that doesn't end in a SB win.
 

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Super Nomario said:
Collie had played for years with Peyton Manning in another sophisticated Erhardt-Perkins offense, while Amendola had largely been in dysfunctional West Coast offenses with mediocre QB play. It's a little disappointing he's not 100% up-to-speed, but he was pretty productive despite it - this isn't a Donald Hayes / Joey Galloway situation.
 
But he's not a Donald Hayes/Joey Galloway signing either: he's a $5 million a year prime of his career guy who's supposed to be a pretty big piece of the offense. He's too expensive, experienced and important to still be picking the proper techniques.
 

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Shelterdog said:
 
But he's not a Donald Hayes/Joey Galloway signing either: he's a $5 million a year prime of his career guy who's supposed to be a pretty big piece of the offense. He's too expensive, experienced and important to still be picking the proper techniques.
So is your position that the Pats should cut Amendola?
 

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Super Nomario said:
So is your position that the Pats should cut Amendola?
 
I don't have enough information, blah blah blah, but possibly.  It really depends on the rate of improvement and what Brady actually thinks as opposed to what we're reading into a one sentence blurb.  If Amendola is getting there and Brady is just pushing perfection from somebody who's pretty good (and who looked great in the opener) then certainly not.  But if Amendola just isn't getting at this point...
 
EDIT: It's essentially the Chudzinski argument.  On the outside it looks like it would be nuts to cut Amendola but if the rate of learning and the development of trust is sufficiently terrible then maybe you do save what money you can and hope that TJ Moe recovered from his achilles injury in a hurry.
 

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I cant envision him getting cut.  His cap charge next year is $4.8M and if he is cut it would create $4.8M in dead money, so you dont gain any cap space and now you have to add a WR.  Sure that can be split over 2 years but you are just spreading out the problem.  I dont see what we gain by cutting him, other than a roster spot, because its not cap space.
 
That said in 2015 he has a $5.7M cap charge and you would save $2.1M by cutting him, then we can have this discussion.  And in 2016 I would say its highly likely he is cut when his charge is $6.7M and the savings would be $4.3M if we cut him.
 
Edit: And I doubt we would be willing to restructure, he knows we would gain nothing from cutting him and if we did he could simply take his $6M signing bonus and move on. 
 

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Shelterdog said:
 
I don't have enough information, blah blah blah, but possibly.  It really depends on the rate of improvement and what Brady actually thinks as opposed to what we're reading into a one sentence blurb.  If Amendola is getting there and Brady is just pushing perfection from somebody who's pretty good (and who looked great in the opener) then certainly not.  But if Amendola just isn't getting at this point...
My problem with this position is this: who do you go out and get that will be better than Amendola?  The WR FA pool isn't exactly swimming with talent.
 

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I tried finding it with no luck, but I distinctly remember an article from either just before the season or as it was beginning saying that Danny was the only guy Brady trusted to be where he was supposed to be.  Something along the lines of a direct quote from Brady saying that if people aren't where they're supposed to be then he'll just throw it to Danny every time.  It was very clear that Amendola had his complete trust and was the only receiver who did at the time.
 
Does that ring a bell for anyone else?  It would certainly blow a hole in the "Brady never trusted him" theory.
 

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Shelterdog said:
 
I don't have enough information, blah blah blah, but possibly.  It really depends on the rate of improvement and what Brady actually thinks as opposed to what we're reading into a one sentence blurb.  If Amendola is getting there and Brady is just pushing perfection from somebody who's pretty good (and who looked great in the opener) then certainly not.  But if Amendola just isn't getting at this point...
 
I feel like this is the key factor to all of WR discussions we've had over the years and while you take the good and take the bad...this is one of those things that I wish Brady were better at. He just doesn't work well with everyone and has a pretty quick trigger when he's decided a guy isn't worth it. 
 
Brady has certainly earned the right to be an exacting, demanding son-of-a-bitch with his WR. And given some of the chicken shit he's been asked to turn into chicken dinner, I don't think anyone begrudges Brady for wanting teammates who can think, make decisions and play at his speed. But clearly, Brady's standards and "pushing perfection" have made finding productive WR more difficult than it has to be.
 

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RedOctober3829 said:
My problem with this position is this: who do you go out and get that will be better than Amendola?  The WR FA pool isn't exactly swimming with talent.
Particularly given Amendola tying up cap space in '14 and '15 if cut.  I guess you could cut him post June 1st given the tight cap room this year, but there's a real chance you go into the season with Dobson/Thompkins/Boyce/draft flyer/(Tiquan Underwood/Kevin Ogletree/whatever fungible vet you want here) as your WR crew and hurt the '15 cap as well.
 

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soxfan121 said:
 
I feel like this is the key factor to all of WR discussions we've had over the years and while you take the good and take the bad...this is one of those things that I wish Brady were better at. He just doesn't work well with everyone and has a pretty quick trigger when he's decided a guy isn't worth it. 
 
Brady has certainly earned the right to be an exacting, demanding son-of-a-bitch with his WR. And given some of the chicken shit he's been asked to turn into chicken dinner, I don't think anyone begrudges Brady for wanting teammates who can think, make decisions and play at his speed. But clearly, Brady's standards and "pushing perfection" have made finding productive WR more difficult than it has to be.
I think I wrote upthread, I can see Brady being frustrated that Amendola wasn't as good as Welker had been, particularly this week with Welker heading to play into the Super Bowl.  He also might be worried that he might lose Edelman this offseason as well.  Its understandable, but shouldnt drive the Pats to cut a productive player in a move that makes little sense under the salary cap.
 

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Hendu for Kutch said:
I tried finding it with no luck, but I distinctly remember an article from either just before the season or as it was beginning saying that Danny was the only guy Brady trusted to be where he was supposed to be.  Something along the lines of a direct quote from Brady saying that if people aren't where they're supposed to be then he'll just throw it to Danny every time.  It was very clear that Amendola had his complete trust and was the only receiver who did at the time.
 
Does that ring a bell for anyone else?  It would certainly blow a hole in the "Brady never trusted him" theory.
 
Is this it?  Sounds like the play-by-play guys said this during a September game:
 
The play by play announcers were saying that Brady told his receivers "if you don't do what I say, I'm just going to throw it to Danny. He may have 200 yards." It's pretty clear Brady has clear trust in Amendola. 
 
http://forums.rotoworld.com/index.php?showtopic=338702&st=440
 

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soxfan121 said:
 
I feel like this is the key factor to all of WR discussions we've had over the years and while you take the good and take the bad...this is one of those things that I wish Brady were better at. He just doesn't work well with everyone and has a pretty quick trigger when he's decided a guy isn't worth it. 
 
Brady has certainly earned the right to be an exacting, demanding son-of-a-bitch with his WR. And given some of the chicken shit he's been asked to turn into chicken dinner, I don't think anyone begrudges Brady for wanting teammates who can think, make decisions and play at his speed. But clearly, Brady's standards and "pushing perfection" have made finding productive WR more difficult than it has to be.
 
The obvious rejoinder is there aren't many guys who struggled with Brady who succeeded elsewhere.  Watson and David Thomas did a little better after leaving New England but Ocho, Taylor Price, Chad Jackson, Donald Hayes, and Doug Gabriel (am I missing anyone?) all did nothing after struggling in New England. It certainly seems to me that Manning and Rodgers and Brees and Big Ben and Rivers do a better job of working with whatever they're given but then again I'm not watching the end of those rosters particularly carefully.
 

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Shelterdog said:
 
I don't have enough information, blah blah blah, but possibly.  It really depends on the rate of improvement and what Brady actually thinks as opposed to what we're reading into a one sentence blurb.  If Amendola is getting there and Brady is just pushing perfection from somebody who's pretty good (and who looked great in the opener) then certainly not.  But if Amendola just isn't getting at this point...
Here's the full interview: http://www.patriots.com/news/article-1/Tom-Brady-Press-Conference-Transcript/2d1182fc-da53-4ce4-9ae1-1132b89aa98f
 
I don't think there's anything to see here. The question was about Collie, and so the full answer is much more praising Collie than it is (comparatively) putting Amendola down. At risk of overquoting, here's the full Q&A related to Collie:
 
 
Q: Austin Collie has been on and off the roster this season. How has he been to work with and how has he weathered that? 
 
TB: It's been great. He came onto the roster late in the season – [fifth] game after missing all the spring and summer and the early part of the year and then worked a way to find a role on the team and that got injured which was unfortunate because he was really starting to come on. Then he's fought back to the point where now he's a really trusted receiver on our team again. We had a lot of guys come in and out of that position; a lot of guys come in and out of that receiver spot. Austin, when he's been in there, has been very dependable and consistent and really knows how to play the position. He learned playing with Peyton [Manning]. So you're in kind of sophisticated offense and you're moving around different positions, you run different routes, there are route adjustments. In that sense, there's a lot of familiarity with what he's done. Hopefully he can go out and make some plays this weekend. 
 
Q: Did his background probably help with his transition here? 
 
TB: Sure. I think being in a system where it's about route running and route technique and route discipline and concepts and signals and adjustments and things like that, that's kind of the way our offense is, that's the way that offense always has been. Not that the offenses are the same because there are some different things but when you run a 14-yard in-cut, whether you're wearing a Patriots jersey or a Broncos jersey, those are the same things. Ultimately it's going to be about running routes and creating separation, enough separation enough where I feel confident to be able to throw you the football. Austin has a good idea of that. Julian [Edelman] has a good idea of that being here with me. Danny [Amendola] came in and he's getting an understanding of that. Al the rookie receivers, they haven't been anywhere. A lot of times for a rookie player, they're just faster than everybody else in college so they just run by everyone and everything looks good. It's probably why it's hard to draft a lot of those young players because it's hard to evaluate because they're so much better physically. Then when you get to the NFL, there's not that physical gap that there is in college. Most of the guys that I played with in college, I don't think any of them are playing anymore, maybe one. It's just the way it goes. You have to be a technician, you have to understand, you have to be a student of the a game, you have to work, you have to understand what the coaches are asking, understand what the team is looking for and just keep working harder and harder and harder and then when you get your opportunity you have to make it pay off. 
 
In the full context, he seems to be putting Amendola closer to the first group with Collie and Edelman than with the rookies. But Amendola doesn't have years of experience playing with Brady (as Edelman does) or Manning (as Collie does), so he's got a little more of a learning curve.
 

mpx42

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Apr 23, 2010
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I just don't see that there would be a tangible benefit to cutting Amendola then making the angry "HE'S OVERPAID!" people feel better. It saves almost no money and makes the 2014 team worse, as you can't use the savings on another player. Not being able to trust that Amendola will be healthy is irrelevant, since there's no benefit in 2014 to not taking that chance. We've already seen what he can do when he's not suffering from a torn groin - he was the best player on the field in Week 1 and might have been the difference in the Patriots winning/losing in Buffalo on that ridiculous 3rd and 9 catch. The Dolphins couldn't cover him, injured or not, in Week 15.
 
Anyway, it seems likely to me that his chemistry with Brady should improve in its second year, particularly if there are players like Gronkowski on the field making it a lot easier for everyone else to get open and catch passes.
 

Jungleland

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wutang112878 said:
I cant envision him getting cut.  His cap charge next year is $4.8M and if he is cut it would create $4.8M in dead money, so you dont gain any cap space and now you have to add a WR.  Sure that can be split over 2 years but you are just spreading out the problem.  I dont see what we gain by cutting him, other than a roster spot, because its not cap space.
 
Given this, I agree there is essentially no point in cutting him as I can't see how freeing up his roster spot for $5 million could be anywhere near as valuable to the team as keeping him would be. Additionally, it's understandable that the wide receiver corps is a big issue of offseason discussion, but is it crazy to believe that this offense could be significantly better next year even if almost the exact same crew returns? Projecting both Dobson and Amendola to fare better statistically next season seems less like fantasy when the former is no longer a rookie and the latter has actually recovered from the week 1 injury. This season was borderline disastrous offensive personnel wise and thus we virtually never got to see what this group's actual ceiling was. They lost Hernandez after most of the offseason pieces were shuffled and thus had little chance of replacing him. They played 2/3 of the season with Gronk sidelined. Amendola showed huge flashes in the first game and then never looked the same after the injury. 
 
Despite being frustrated with the offense for most of the season, I find myself more concerned going forward about durability than talent. If (and admittedly, two huge ifs) Edelman is resigned and Gronkowski is projected to be back in time to play meaningful football, I think there is a lot of reason to be optimistic. Bringing back Edelman and drafting a viable Aaron Hernandez replacement are far more pressing concerns than whether Danny Amendola is overpaid, at least for the 2014-15 season.
 

RedOctober3829

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I agree Jungleland.  The place where you upgrade the receiving targets is in the draft at the TE position.  I mentioned somewhere about doubling up on TE's with Jace Amaro and CJ Fed.  Amaro is that guy that could replicate a lot of what Hernandez gave in terms of being that swiss army knife-type of player who can line up at multiple points on the field and be a threat.  CJFed is a tremendous blocker who also is athletic enough to run routes effectively.  He's essentially a more talented version of Mulligan.  You pair those 2 up with Gronkowski and this offense looks a whole lot scarier. 
 
I would entertain the thought of acquiring Anquan Boldin in free agency.  He's big and competes for the ball.  I love his attitude and his penchant for making big-time plays at key times.  He's older, but I think he would add something the group needs.
 

soxfan121

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Shelterdog said:
 
The obvious rejoinder is there aren't many guys who struggled with Brady who succeeded elsewhere.  Watson and David Thomas did a little better after leaving New England but Ocho, Taylor Price, Chad Jackson, Donald Hayes, and Doug Gabriel (am I missing anyone?) all did nothing after struggling in New England. It certainly seems to me that Manning and Rodgers and Brees and Big Ben and Rivers do a better job of working with whatever they're given but then again I'm not watching the end of those rosters particularly carefully.
 
Oh, no doubt. The only names you might be missing are Givens (injury), Branch in Seattle, Stallworth (off-field problem) and Gaffney (not worthless elsewhere but not close to what he was when here. IOW, just more evidence for your argument. 
 

Granite Sox

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I don't think this is a mental issue... I think it's a physical issue. Amendola isn't a rock head; he just runs like Slim Pickens.

He tore his groin. He tried playing through it, but his ability to cut, accelerate, and separate was significantly compromised. Thus his ability to "get open" became limited. Under these conditions, it's no wonder why TB12 may have thought it was trickier to complete passes thrown his way.

I think if he can return to pre-injury quickness and agility, this will be much ado about nothing.
 

Van Everyman

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Dogman2 said:
You haven't heard it because Volin likely made it up.
PaulinMyrBch said:
It's bullshit reporting.
SeoulSoxFan said:
Ben's (throwaway) assertion.
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Volin and pals are rooting for Amendola to get cut because to them he's Welker's replacement and they want him to get cut so they can shit all over the Pats for Welker leaving and their not replacing him adequately.
MarcSullivaFan said:
I'm not surprised that Volin wrote this. I've found a lot of his stuff to be sensationalistic and based mostly on what happened in the last game or two. Not impressed.
Shelterdog said:
He's so damn vague that we don't know if he's speculating or reporting
triniSox said:
He doesn't seem to have found reliable sources yet and is doing what seems to be a lot of guesswork.
I get that these kind of context-less lines can be frustrating for readers and that this is an internet message board not the congressional record. And I probably should have led my post by saying "If true."

But stating that Volin just "made this up" is baseless and, frankly, lazier than if he actually did make it up.

Obviously Volin heard something -- no probably not in a press release from Patriots.com or from Brady directly (tho who knows). But he's a capable, if sometimes uninspiring, beat reporter for a well regarded sports desk with a major paper. Those kind of guys aren't above sensationalizing a story and creating mischief but they're highly unlikely to concoct stories out of thin air.

Maybe, yes, Brady has never really had chemistry and trust with DA. Or maybe DA backslid during the year in some ways. Most likely, he's drawing a conclusion based on a lot of different pieces of information he's assembled. But as the second two pages of their thread suggest, there's plenty of widely available evidence he's not just pulling shit out of his ass.
 

triniSox

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Oct 27, 2008
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Van Everyman said:
I get that these kind of context-less lines can be frustrating for readers and that this is an internet message board not a forum for libel. And I probably should have led my post by saying "If true."

But stating that Volin just "made this up" is baseless and, frankly, lazier than if he actually did make it up.

Obviously Volin heard something -- no probably not in a press release from Patriots.com or from Brady directly (tho who knows). But he's a capable, if sometimes uninspiring, beat reporter for a well regarded sports desk with a major paper. Those kind of guys aren't above sensationalizing a story and creating mischief but they're highly unlikely to concoct stories out of thin air.

Maybe, yes, Brady has never really had chemistry and trust with DA. Or maybe DA backslid during the year in some ways. Most likely, he's drawing a conclusion based on a lot of different pieces of information he's assembled. But as the second two pages of their thread suggest, there's plenty of widely available evidence he's not just pulling shit out of his ass.
While I get your point, it's a big difference if Reiss or SMY says it or if Volin says it. I've read a lot of Volin this year and follow him on twitter and nothing suggests to me that he's getting well-sourced info.
 
I think his insight into the J. Martin issue was very good and he seems to have a pretty good beat on the Dolphin's locker room - moreso than any of his Patriots-related insight this season.
 
I don't think he's making shit up but I do think he's reaching here. That's my opinion and I don't think it's libelous of me to say so.
 

Super Nomario

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Van Everyman said:
I get that these kind of context-less lines can be frustrating for readers and that this is an internet message board not the congressional record. And I probably should have led my post by saying "If true."

But stating that Volin just "made this up" is baseless and, frankly, lazier than if he actually did make it up.

Obviously Volin heard something -- no probably not in a press release from Patriots.com or from Brady directly (tho who knows). But he's a capable, if sometimes uninspiring, beat reporter for a well regarded sports desk with a major paper. Those kind of guys aren't above sensationalizing a story and creating mischief but they're highly unlikely to concoct stories out of thin air.

Maybe, yes, Brady has never really had chemistry and trust with DA. Or maybe DA backslid during the year in some ways. Most likely, he's drawing a conclusion based on a lot of different pieces of information he's assembled. But as the second two pages of their thread suggest, there's plenty of widely available evidence he's not just pulling shit out of his ass.
Maybe Volin isn't "just pulling shit out of his ass," but he provides zero evidence to the contrary. He wrote that Amendola "lost Brady's trust" like it's a fact. He didn't say, "sources within the team say he lost Brady's trust" or "Amendola's targets decreased over the course of the season" or even analyze Brady's body language in Simmonsesque fashion. He's got an obligation as a writer to show his work. He didn't, and therefore opens himself up to deserved criticism.
 
In general, I agree Volin's a capable reporter. This was sloppy. I don't assume he was making it up, but I also can't take it remotely seriously because he provides no basis for me to do so.
 
EDIT: and in addition that "Brady's trust" line, Volin never establishes whether the idea of cutting Edelman is pure speculation on his part or whether this is something he's hearing rumblings about. There's a big difference between baseless shit-stirring and responsibly putting rumors out there.
 

Dogman

Yukon Cornelius
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Van Everyman said:
But stating that Volin just "made this up" is baseless and, frankly, lazier than if he actually did make it up.
 
 
Sorry, but this is bullshit.  
 
Volin's 2 statements that Amendola's season was disappointing and he missed 4 games in no way support his conclusion that he does not have Brady's trust. Volin doesn't mention the season long groin injury or the offensive philosophy shift after losing Gronk as potentially factual reasons for Amendola's numbers.  Instead, he leaps wildly to something unsupportable using a platitude that is meaningless without seasonal context. 
 
What's more, there is no possible way I am lazier than Ben in this case by virtue of the fact that he gets paid to write stories worthy of merit and substantiation.  I see no mention of any sources (named or otherwise) or any explanation of his work or logic. That's worse than Cafardo.  
 
I stick by my initial assertion that he made this up.